• Antimatter said on Nov 20, 2007....

  The sad thing is how close homosexuality is to the main page!

• bloc said on Nov 20, 2007....

  I should have saved this for a TGIF post ;)

• bloc said on Nov 20, 2007....

  Here is a priceless daily show segment on things like conservapedia

• Fallyn said on Nov 20, 2007....

  that's really funny.

• D6fer said on Nov 20, 2007....

  whats conservapedia?
  
  

• TinSoldier said on Nov 20, 2007....

  bloc -- it's like Wikipedia but made by self-proclaimed "conservatives".
  
  I would judge it to be slightly less reliable. "Slightly" in the cosmic sense, of course.
  
  
  

• Fallyn said on Nov 20, 2007....

  as in the earth is slightly smaller than the sun?

• TinSoldier said on Nov 20, 2007....

  Well, more like the sun is slightly smaller than the Milky Way Galaxy, but still. It's just a matter of scale right?

• Fallyn said on Nov 20, 2007....

  just a matter of scale, yeah.
  
  

• bloc said on Nov 20, 2007....

  lol

• silverwhisper said on Nov 21, 2007....

  bloc: you know, that's just so predictably beautiful...like the inevitable beauty of an arpeggio... :D
  
  TS: i need a gorammed rep button! :D
  
  ed

• Fallyn said on Nov 21, 2007....

  i'm sure henry ford felt the same way the first time he saw a model T come off the line.
  
  so damned awe inspiring. one right after the other that way.
  

• D6fer said on Nov 21, 2007....

  so if someone wanted to "stack the deck" so to speak....they could go to this website and create this result? or should I say a group of people with a ulterior motive?

• bloc said on Nov 22, 2007....

  it's possible

• crybabylu said on Nov 22, 2007....

  (the diseases are not exclusive to male homosexuals).---One could put this in brackets behind each numbered item in your post.

  In fact, would't people be surprised to learn just how high the figures go in regards to non-homosexual males....

  You see, I have been studying these kinds of things for years.  Even as a younster, I saw meanness towards ''gay"s and I have been fighting against discrimination of gays ever since.....lol, dee

• silverwhisper said on Nov 23, 2007....

  d6: i'm sorry, are you seriously suggesting that social conservatives aren't obsessed with homosexuality? really?
  
  ed

• D6fer said on Nov 23, 2007....

  I think that it is definately part of their agenda to keep it out of the mainstream. In the case of marriage and the military at least....but I think that you also have to take into consideration that the battle is brought to them....they have to defend the status quo in these instances.

  I think in the case of Senator Craig though, what we are looking at is a man trying to hide bad behavior.

  If anyone somehow believes that all conservatives, or even many conservatives are a bunch of closet homosexuals, then they are a moron.

   

• bloc said on Nov 23, 2007....

  "I think in the case of Senator Craig though, what we are looking at is a man trying to hide bad behavior"
  
  And that this seems to apply to many many anti-gay conservatives. I'm not a moron, but we've all seen tons of rabidly anti-gay conservatives turn out to be gay. 

• crybabylu said on Nov 23, 2007....

  I guess I am the only one in the world that still think Sen. Craig is straight, huh?  I think that little dance in the men's room proved absolutely nothing!  I'm not even a conservative, but I thought that was a stinking '"set-up" by an overzealous young cop.  Probably his first arrest.

• bloc said on Nov 23, 2007....

  this isn't the first time Craig was in a scandal about being gay.

• TinSoldier said on Nov 23, 2007....

  <Seinfeld>Not that there's anything wrong with that...</Seinfeld>
  
  ;-)
  

• silverwhisper said on Nov 23, 2007....

  d6, the fact is that homosexuality is a fact of life and it's already in the mainstream. social conservatives may not like it, but they have to accept half the responsibility for raising it to the level of discussion. it takes two to tango.
  
  ed

• D6fer said on Nov 23, 2007....

  many many bloc? can you give me many many examples? and then lets do some math.

• bloc said on Nov 23, 2007....

  i don't have time to look them up right now. here are two off the top of my head. The congressman in the page scandal, remember him? The preacher at that church that not only was having gay sex, but was doing meth, remember him?

• TinSoldier said on Nov 23, 2007....

  bloc -- I think he meant scandals involving Craig specifically. I think I remember some minor stuff myself...
  
  Or maybe it was just related to the bathroom incident.
  

• silverwhisper said on Nov 23, 2007....

  the preacher to whom bloc refers, btw, is mel haggard.
  
  ed

• crybabylu said on Nov 23, 2007....

  yeah, you are right about that, the evangelical preacher.  I don't know why that got so much attention as being a conservative issue.  Was he a strong supporter of the "conservative" political party?

• bloc said on Nov 23, 2007....

  @tin
  he was referring to my use of "many many" in terms of anti-gay gay conservatives. 

• bloc said on Nov 23, 2007....

  Ted Haggard
  In 2005, Haggard was listed by Time magazine as one of the top 25 most influential evangelicals in America.[13] Haggard is a firm supporter of President George W. Bush, and is sometimes credited with rallying evangelicals behind Bush during the 2004 election.[14] Author Jeff Sharlet reported in 2005 that Haggard "talks to… Bush or his advisers every Monday" and stated at that time that "no pastor in America holds more sway over the political direction of evangelicalism."[15] In a June 2005 Wall Street Journal article, "Ted Haggard, the head of the 30-million strong National Association of Evangelicals, joked that the only disagreement between himself and the leader of the Western world is automotive: Mr. Bush drives a Ford pickup, whereas he prefers a Chevy."[16]

• TinSoldier said on Nov 23, 2007....

  Okay, sorry about that.
  
  
  

• silverwhisper said on Nov 23, 2007....

  bloc: oops! meh, 3 letter name, same vowel at least... :p
  
  ed

• crybabylu said on Nov 23, 2007....

   Haggard is a firm supporter of President George W. Bush, and is sometimes credited with rallying evangelicals behind Bush during the 2004 election

  Wow!  That was a stroke of "bad luck" for Bush, don't you think?  Ha!  Sorry, I couldn't resist the tendency to want to rub that one in to good 'ol George.....

• crybabylu said on Nov 23, 2007....

  Oh but you guys must remember that Ted is now reformed!

  hahaha!

• bloc said on Nov 23, 2007....

  he's now an anti-gay conformed-gay conservative ;)

• crybabylu said on Nov 23, 2007....

  yeah!

  hehe!

• D6fer said on Nov 23, 2007....

  no tin...I meant out of all conservatives....not just Craig....ok bloc...so there is three examples....what do you think the percentage is up to now maybe 3/1000ths of 1 percent?
  

• TinSoldier said on Nov 23, 2007....

  Former Spokane mayor is one more:
  http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/223201_west06.html
  
  I'm sure there are more. One must only look.
  
  Washington State rep Richard Curtis:
  http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/10/31/america/NA-GEN-US-State-Lawmaker-Extortion.php
  
  (What is it with Washington State Republicans and hypocrisy?)
  
  Oh my gosh! Another bathroom scandal! From a Florida Republican!
  http://www.365gay.com/Newscon07/11/111707allen.htm
  
  Do you want more? 'Cause I can do that you know.
  
  Look, I'm neither pro- nor anti-gay. I am pro-truth and anti-hypocrisy. While their sexuality is a private issue (for the most part, for folks who aren't trying to hide it by being in a nominally hetero marriage) if they have philosophical reasons and/or ideological reasons for being against expanding gay rights and acceptance then they should explain those reasons within the context of their own sexuality.
  
  Otherwise, they ain't getting my vote no matter what.
  

• D6fer said on Nov 23, 2007....

  keep em coming.....lets see the whole list

• TinSoldier said on Nov 23, 2007....

  Yeah, right. You can do your own Google searches, man. I just pulled up enough links to prove my point -- there are more out there. After a certain threshold I no longer have to post them.
  
  Who do you think that I am -- sheltercrow?
  
  ;-)
  
  Glenn Murphy, Jr.
  
  Okay, you pulled me into looking again. I could spend hours that I don't want to, not to mention that the Foley scandal brought out the Witch-hunters. I guess that I could wrap it up by saying that just like there are terrorists that we don't know about, there are gay Republicans that we don't know about.
  
  Maybe if we subjected them to water boarding then they would admit whether or not they like the buttseks. After all, it's a threat to Truth, Justice, and the American Way!
  

• D6fer said on Nov 24, 2007....

  Tin....I really want bloc to provide some examples....he is the one that makes the accusations....but if you want to join the party....feel free....let's see how many you guys can dig up.

• crybabylu said on Nov 24, 2007....

  Let's start with the Christian Coalition's favorite son, Louisiana senator David Vitter.

• crybabylu said on Nov 24, 2007....

  Sorry, wrong link for David Vitter.  This one is a better one.now better known as The Guy Who Frequents Prostitutes and Asks To Wear a Diaper.

• bloc said on Nov 24, 2007....

  i'm not your monkey and i'm not going to waste my time playing games. 

• D6fer said on Nov 24, 2007....

  I'm not playing games...I am trying to make a few points here....1st of all you are a lib and you brought the subject up....strike one...2nd the so-called conservatives that held office were removed by their own party...strike two....3rd....the others listed were some charlatan preachers who were also removed by their own....the true conservatives!....strike three! yerrrrrrr out!

• silverwhisper said on Nov 24, 2007....

  d6:
  
  1) i don't know what you're trying to say here. ?
  2) is incorrect b/c the hypocrites stepped down themselves.
  3) are you somehow unaware that there are christian sects that don't have a problem with gays?
  
  true republicans wouldn't want to use government power on something as relatively harmless, b/c a true republican understands that government power should be used as little as possible.
  
  ed

• D6fer said on Nov 24, 2007....

  1. it's his obsession
  2. they stepped down before they were thrown out
  3. that is their right and I respect that
  
  true republicans don't want marriage and the military ruined even more
  

• silverwhisper said on Nov 24, 2007....

  d6: no, true republicans want smaller government. mike huckabee opposed the nationalization of the national guard--he's a classic republican b/c he wants the national guard to remain in the control of the states.
  
  ed

• bloc said on Nov 24, 2007....

  it's not my obsession, i'm not the one with a bunch of closeted anti-gay gay people in my party. I'm not the one that is anti-gay. this is only an issue because republicans try to demonize gay people and it's perfectly ironic that so many are gay. I wonder how Cheney reconciles his nonsense with is own daughter.

• crybabylu said on Nov 24, 2007....

  I might be wrong, have been before, but I would like to say something about religion and gays and why I think it plays a role in the conservative agenda.

  Even though some religion is embracing gays, it is not the majority.  In fact, I think most homophobic ideas comes from the "religious".  I think that is the only reason, or one of the main ones that, the Conservative party doesn't embrace gays.  They would lose their "religious" backing.  Only an opinion, mind you, but I think it rings true.  As, I have already said, until 8 yrs. ago, I was Republican and had been all my life, until they started getting too radical with their "Religious" patronizing.

• TinSoldier said on Nov 24, 2007....

  I think that most homophobic ideas come from tradition, rather than religion. Or at least, that religion can be wrapped up within the idea of tradition.
  
  I've known more non-religious -- that is, non-observant more than atheist or agnostic -- homophobes than I have overtly religious people.
  
  Of course, that may just be the types of people with whom I've hung out.
  

• bloc said on Nov 24, 2007....

  homophobia comes from our culture, but where did our culture get it? Religion imho, the puritans are a curse on our culture.

• TinSoldier said on Nov 24, 2007....

  My point is that homophobia existed before the Puritans did, before Catholicism did, before a lot of other things.
  
  Now whether it comes from religion or predates religion -- I couldn't tell you.
  
  Our culture, also, stems from many other sources than just the Puritans. I think sometimes you treat them a little unfairly, even if none of us would have wanted to live like they did.
  

• D6fer said on Nov 24, 2007....

  homophobia means fear of homosexuals doesn't it?
  I don't think most religious people fear homosexuals, I think that they disapprove of their lifestyle....it was the left and media that tied the two together.
  There is biblical scripture that forbids homosexuality.
  

• bloc said on Nov 24, 2007....

  "There is biblical scripture that forbids homosexuality."
  
  And there are all kinds of Biblical scriptures that you don't begin to pay attention to. Like the one that commands you to gouge out your eyes if they cause you to lust.

• D6fer said on Nov 24, 2007....

  I'm just saying...I am sure this is where it comes from

• TinSoldier said on Nov 25, 2007....

  I'm using the term "homophobia" to mainly mean the fear of homosexuality being accepted by the mainstream.
  
  I understand the technical term of the word, but I believe that my working definition is more relevant.
  
  I also believe that "homophobia" predates any bible verse, including Leviticus 18:22.
  

• crybabylu said on Nov 25, 2007....

  The reason I connected it to religion, is because some religious people have a passion about it, and equal it to "The days of Sodam & Gamora."  Everyone seemed to be appauled that Jerry Falwell said what he did after 9/11. Hundreds maybe even thousands were probably thinking it but not saying it.  I don't kow why I would be the only one here that as seen and heard it up close.  Some religious people actually fear it.  they even come out say it 

  They think it is immoral and deviant behavior and they will say stuff like "If America doesn't stop being immoral, God is going to let us be destroyed!"  That is why they are so passionate about abortion too.  They think if we as a nation allow this kind of immorality to flourish in our nation, we are going to be destroyed.   My personal conviction, is that we as individuals need to be concerned about the evil we see in our own lives.....such as racism, hatred, greed, persecuting the poor and the less fortunate..etc.

• silverwhisper said on Nov 25, 2007....

  d6, scripture also requires jews and christians to kill pagans. yet i don't see any news stories about zealous christians killing witches these days, do you?
  
  ed

• D6fer said on Nov 25, 2007....

  really ed? Where is that? I never claimed to be a bible expert so you'll have to give me a link or something. I would like to read that in context.
  
  I can't help but notice that the only people that know the bible well are either hard core christians or hard core christian haters.
  
  maybe it would be a good idea to provide links to scripture if using it, or mention of it for sake of an argument......I think that is only fair....anyone disagree?
  

• bloc said on Nov 25, 2007....

  Matthew 5:29
  29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

• silverwhisper said on Nov 25, 2007....

  d6: the scripture is ex. 22:18.
  
  ed

• crybabylu said on Nov 25, 2007....

  D6fer-  What is a "hard core" Christian?  Are you refering to "radicals, fanatics, zealots" ?  What do you mean by "hard core?"

  My husband and I have been thru the bible several times.  Over 37 times myself, not including individual time spent studying and researching the bible..  But, I would dare say, I am not "hard core", in fact, if I were;  you and I would't be on the opposite of almost every debate I've seen you post.    (I say that because you sound in a lot of ways just like what I was talking about, in fact, I would've thought you   were "hard core".)

  I am just saying there are "those" religious people who believe very strongly about the '"gay" issue, and they are also political about it.

• D6fer said on Nov 25, 2007....

  bloc...ed...thank you
  
  ed....old testament right?  Do you think that was instruction for those times? or now?
  
  cry....I think people study the bible for different reasons....not all are christians
  

• D6fer said on Nov 25, 2007....

  bloc.....I don't think that analogies are new to this world....I'm pretty sure that Jesus was using one there.

• silverwhisper said on Nov 26, 2007....

  d6: you're welcome. :> yep, old testament. there's a whole book of the bible that does nothing but give laws, leviticus. did you know that according to leviticus, a woman who is having her period is supposed to stay at home? there's a lot of wacky stuff in leviticus--you should take a gander at some of it some time.
  
  as i'm not a christian myself, i don't think my view of the applicability of scripture to today's christian is relevant, frankly: that's a question being asked by people in pews every sunday, and their opinions matter a whole lot more than mine.
  
  ed

• D6fer said on Nov 27, 2007....

  Jeez ed....does that law seem really bad to you? ;p

• silverwhisper said on Nov 27, 2007....

  i think it's kinda dumb, to be honest. but then, i think a lot of the stuff in leviticus is kinda dumb. :>
  
  ed

• bloc said on Nov 27, 2007....

  "It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."
  
  This doesn't sound like an analogy to me. Actually, I think you meant metaphor, but either way that statement is very direct and clear.

• crybabylu said on Nov 27, 2007....

  here is a funny one (smile)  "Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard:  Leviticus 19:27.

• crybabylu said on Nov 27, 2007....

  oh sorry, I guess that doesn't have anything to do with "gayness", does it?

  This one does found in the same book of Leviticus:

  Leviticus 18:22: "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; "that is detestable."   NIV translation.

  In King James, it reads: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind;       it is an abomination.

  It goes on and on, but if you go down to verse 24-25-26,  which is the heart of the religious agenda on the subject of homosexuality:

  24) Defile not ye yourselves in any of  these things; for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:

  25) And the land is defiled:  therefore, I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomitteth out her inhabitants.....

  26)  Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgements, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:

   

• D6fer said on Nov 27, 2007....

  yeah bloc...I did....I thought about that after I logged off....I think he may have been exaggerating to make a point.....I don't recall of any bible stories where someone actually did something like that.

• bloc said on Nov 27, 2007....

  this is one of the reasons I can't be a Christian and can't accept others who take certain pieces of the Bible as absolutes and others, at their convenience, as metaphor. Especially when they want to impose their selective reading on the rest of us. Frankly, I don't know what that would be a metaphor for. Can you tell me?
  
  
  "It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell." 
  

• crybabylu said on Nov 27, 2007....

  It is a metaphor.   Of course, no one is going to actually cut their own body part off or even pluck their eye out.  It is just saying that nothing is worth losing your soul over.

  Sorry, bloc, I hope I didn't say anything that would keep you from being a Christian.  I have lived life both ways, and I would chose Christianity over anything else, even with its obvious flaws.......lol, dee

• bloc said on Nov 28, 2007....

  trust me, i'm not going to be a christian and it wasn't your words that led me to that conclusion :)
  
  
  
  
  "It is just saying that nothing is worth losing your soul over."
  
  
  That's a really odd way of saying it. That could have easily said it with out giving what appears to be a direct command to cut off a body part. 

• silverwhisper said on Nov 28, 2007....

  bloc: see, i think your concern re: where it's literal and where it's metaphor is part of the appeal of fundamentalism. it's sort of the scriptural equivalent of "zero tolerance" policies--and you know what i think of those. :>
  
  ed

• D6fer said on Nov 29, 2007....

  you know it's a pretty old book and has gone through some translation.....who know's what was lost?

• silverwhisper said on Nov 29, 2007....

  yeah, maybe so d6, but since we can't know the answer to that, we can only go with the text as we have it now. there hasn't likely been all that much lost: do a little research on biblical scholarship some time. it's actually a bit scary how much they have.
  
  ed

Comment on "Conservatives obsession with gayness"

Currently tagged	conservatism politics Republicans gayness conservatives (Click to add tags below)
Tag this post	(Separate tags using commas, for example: New York, dating, vegetarian)
Your comment