• lfbno7 said on Oct 30, 2007....

  I'm glad you're here, Trinov.  It is so rare to get the truth out about Israel.   All you get is deluded people who don't realize that the Israelis are neck deep in Arab terrorists who will not tolerate their existence.  They say silly things about settlements or something, completely missing the point that ever since Israel was born in 1948 there was only one thing going on - the Arabs wanted every Jew dead, period.
  
  It's kind of sad that the liberals, who owe their existence and their strength as much to the Jews as anyone (it was the Jews who started the NAACP, the Jews always behind every liberal movement in America), have completely turned against the Jews and sided with insanely racist jihadists who will never be satisfied until every Jew in the Middle East is either dead or a pissed-on non-citizen in an Arab state.  The libs buy the Arab bullshit lock stock and barrel.  They can no longer recognize fanatical racist terrorist loonies when they see them.  They cheer Charlie Manson and Hitler.
  
  How the hell do you side with idiots who whip their own women if they show a little ankle?  Get the big picture here, kiddies, and don't worry so damn much about somebody moving into empty desert and building a home there.  If the so-called Palestinians were serious about living in peace with Jews in their midst, they would have accepted a homeland of their own, agreed to recognize the state of Israel, and then thrown out all the settlements at their leisure.  It's a slam dunk, kiddies.  Follow the bouncing ball.
  

• silverwhisper said on Oct 30, 2007....

  trinov: let's not forget the fact that israel is slowing fuel & energy shipments to gaza in response to the constant rocket attacks and even that's drawing criticism. for pity's sake, that's just plain stupid.
  
  lbf: i really wish that you would understand that it isn't all liberals who are anti-israel. i also wish you would stop with the histrionics and godwin-stuff.
  
  ed

• lfbno7 said on Oct 30, 2007....

  This is an issue worth intensity.  You wouldn't have shown any histrionics about Hitler either, would you?  What the hell, it doesn't affect you.  You actually don't have the moral right to tell a Jew not to get upset about his people getting targeted in the Middle East and then getting blamed for the whole situation too, which is very much like the Jews getting blamed for the Holocaust.  Have a cup of tea.

• silverwhisper said on Oct 30, 2007....

  lbf, your being ridiculous for suggesting that criticism cannot be honest. absolutely, positively ridiculous and unnecessarily insulting. again. that's really sad.
  
  ed

• skald said on Oct 30, 2007....

  Just want to say that I know this is a big problem and I detest all war. 

• lfbno7 said on Oct 30, 2007....

  SW, you don't answer the specifics that I bring up, you just label them as "ridiculous".  Not much of a debating technique there.  If I had used that easy technique in my debating courses I would have gotten F's.  You've said absolutely nothing.  You have dishonestly referred to my points as histrionics and godwin stuff, whatever that is, without addressing the points themselves.  All you ever do, basically, is launch insults without providing any substance.  That's why I don't enjoy talking to you.  Let's drop it and not pick it up again.  I can't stand the way you present what passes for your case.  I don't want to discuss any issues with you anymore.

• Trinov said on Oct 30, 2007....

  I found another interesting article today--how the terrorists are afraid that Olmert might die before he gives away Israel, or before he lets out all their comrades free to murder again. http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58393

• lfbno7 said on Oct 30, 2007....

  The Jews in Israel are in a pickle all right.  It must be tons of fun to live day in, day out, among people who are intent on killing you and your children because of your religion.  Just tons of fucking fun.  When do they get out of the concentration camp?  And it burns me up when somebody starts taking the other side, missing the big picture for some nonsense, saying day is night, saying evil is good, saying the Jews are at fault for the pickle they are in, not simply recognizing what is plain as day, that they are surrounded by crazy bastards who want them dead, a nation of Osama Bin Ladens.  Holy shit, Sherlock, can you figure that one out?
  
  I wouldn't have settled for the slow burn that they have.  I would have confronted it head on from the start, and there would be no more problem.  The problem should have been solved several decades ago.
  
  Israel must learn to ignore world opinion completely because the world hates their guts, and oil money talks.  It was ass kicking time long ago, and it still is.  War is war.  You may not want to be in a war, but you are in one, not of your own choosing, and there is absolutely nothing you can do, no concession you can make, short of mass suicide, that will satisfy these bastards.  It's time to kill them or drive them the hell out of your country, unless of course they see that you are serious about taking the bull by the horns, and they decide miraculously to sign a peace treaty with no more bullshit about it, and agree to accept their own nation.
  
  Peace and independence, or war, pick one, you motherfucking crazy Arab bastards.  Accept the right of the Jews to have a country, or get the fuck out of it, or die.  Your choice.
  
  Oh am I too intense?  Gee fucking whiz.  These crazy bastards get their own children to strap bombs onto themselves in order to kill a Jew, and I'm too intense?  I'm not doing anything here.
  

• Trinov said on Oct 30, 2007....

  Hi, I want to say some things here.

   

  To Skald: yes war is terrible, but sometimes it is necessary, like having your arm broken and you need an operation, there is no choice, for you can’t live with a broken arm.

   

  To Silverwhisper: Ifbno7’s reaction is not histrionic at all.

   

  Let me explain :

   

  First of all, there is the matter of style. I tried very hard when I was in the States to watch the Senate and House of Representative’s TV channels. But no matter what the issue, polite sarcasm prevailed, or else deadly silence while the lawmakers read their speeches to the podium.

   

  In Israel, (and in Italy where the members of parliament were reported to have thrown ink-wells at each other), people are not so calm about their opinions or their problems…It’s like the time I spent with a friend up at Radcliff: I couldn’t believe how calm the Harvard guys were in their arguments,-- at Columbia where I studied (Barnard) and in all the leftist organizations that I belonged to in NYC, everybody got angry and things could get at least at the verge of violence. Even the self-proclaimed ‘pacificists’ were at each other’s throats, verbally, and would get red faced and tense.

   

  And then there is the family issue. Jews are a family and when your family hurts you hurt, when your family is in danger you feel and identify with the danger and get the adrenaline.

   

  It is not the same with Christians, since Christians are not of the same ethnic stock. It might be similar with the Armenians when they hear of Armenians in trouble, for they are also an ethnic group and one which suffered a holocaust in 1919. The Syriac Christians might also react in a similar fashion, for I believe that most of them are from one ethnic group, ditto for the St. Thomas Christians of India. But history shows that generic Christians don’t think of each other as brothers and have been at war with each other for as long as they have been Christians.

   

  So if Jews are one big unhappy family why do some Jews not react? Well, the answer to this is found in the Holy Zohar, which was secret for about 1,500 years. The Holy Zohar, written by Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai said that Moses should not have taken in the Erev Rav-the “mixed multitude”, for they have turned against the Jews every time the Jews became weak and will continue to do so.

   

  What am I talking about?

  At the time the Jews were in Eygpt, the country of Eygpt was the Super Power of the time. Egyptian style pottery etc was manufactured on Cypress and sold –possibly as the real thing—all over the world (see Barry Fell about these items being found even in America!). {This is in the nothing new under the sun department, I wonder what the patent and copyright laws were in Egypt.}

   

  The intelligensia of all the places that heard of Egypt were ‘into’ being like Egyptians and they probably sent their sons to study at the universities there, etc. {Eygpt was at a very high technological level at the time}.

   

  When the Jews left Egypt, these successful intelligent immigrants who were in Egypt, seeing that the Egpytians were losing, and the Jewish G-d was  winning, saw Him as the top god, the winner and they wanted to be again on the winning side. They did not comprehend G-d as the Creator and the only Power, but as as god among gods, who happened to be the CEO of the gods. They petitioned Moses to take them into the Jewish people and he did.

   

  But because they did not comprehend the act that they took, they for the most part, as souls that re-incarnated, were never comfortable being on what they thought was the losing side. When the ‘Greeks’ –or the Hellenized Syrians conquered Judea—the Jews of the mixed multitude became Hellenized themselves to the point of having an operation to ‘remove’ their circumsicion so that they could practice naked in the arena without being identified as Jews. 

   

  At many other times in history they became a fifth column among Jews, and aided the enemy.

   

  This concept was not taught to the masses of us Jews by the Rabbis until quite recently (-they didn’t want to add fuel to the usual infighting of Askenasi against Sephardi, Mitnagid against Chassidim, and ‘Litvacks’ against everybody else).

   

  But it came ‘out of the closet’ since we are in the period of Exile that is referred to by the ancient sages as the Exile of the Erev Rav (or Mixed Multitude).

   

  They are the ones who are mostly the movers and shakers amongst Jews, both in Israel and in America. They are extremely intelligent, talented, verbal and clever. But they can’t stand being on the losing side,so now that Israel looks weak to them, they join with the Arabs in calling Israel every name in the book, they join in boycotts of Israel, they join the cults (although this is a real Jewish problem also), they lead the political parties, they take over the youth movements and the leadership of kibbutzim (what you hear from the movements is not necessarily what many of the little guys who are members believe).

   

  So here is where my answer to Ifbno7 comes in: the government is in the hands of these people for the most part.

   

  Anyone who does not feel that Har HaBayit, (the Temple Mount) is important, anyone who is willing to bargain away Jerusalem for any reason, anyone who did not bleed with those expelled from Gush Gatif, who doesn’t groan over what is happening in Sderot every day—living under constant shelling: men women, children, babies, the handicapped, the war orphans, the old women—they are not really family, that is what they are showing us, shouting at us. And we have to believe them.

   

  What can be done? People voted for Sharon for they thought he would be the tough guy, and he turned out to be the opposite of what was promised in the campaign speeches.

   

   The last head of army intelligence here, in his first and last press conference told of how many times he warned about certain problems and nobody listened.

   

  Leaders not in sync with the establishment here, like Rabbi Meir Kahana, Benyamin Kahana, our “Gandi” : Rechavam Zeevi and others somehow were murdered by Arabs, who seemed to have very good intelligence about their exact whereabouts, or other leadere were miraculously washed out to sea from a dock, or-- etc .

   

  Also according to an Arutz Sheva poll only 20% of those responding believed the scenario of Rabin’s assasination --that Igal Amir is “the murderer”. Just as in the Kennedy assassination and the Lincoln assasination, there never was and never will be a ‘lone assassin’ in  murder of a head of state—it is almost always an inside job. ( I no longer believe in the tooth fairy either) {see Chamish’s website}.

   

  So it is not easy to form an opposition party or group and stay alive –(Chamish is in the states or Canada by the way to stay alive)--. People like Faiglin, who is trying to work through the Likud,  and is being besmerched by other Likudniks, well their chances for running the country are nill.

   

  So what do I do about it ? I’m just a sixty plus lady who is so tired of the situation and cannot go out to demonstrations anymore, I read Tehillim (psalms) and pray and try to help my neighbors and write into on-line newspapers etc and throw tantrums at the radio newscasts… and stock up on food and water and candles and matches and wait.

   

   For I know that eventually, just as all the other prophesies have come to pass, including the very very hard ones, the time is coming for the End of Days scenario.

   

  One of the prophesies said:   that right before the Mashiach or Davidic King comes, there will be a ruler in Israel that is so bad that every body will hate him.--- Olmert has a 3% approval rating. … The time is coming soon.

   

• silverwhisper said on Oct 31, 2007....

  trinov: none of what you said has any bearing on the fact that lbf's reaction to anybody who suggests that just maybe the israeli government is to claim they would have supported hitler. that's quite plainly histrionics. seriously, since the government is in fact secular, it isn't holy and hence is fallible, correct? therefore, the israeli government is capable of making mistakes, correct? the temple remains unrestored, the priesthood remains largely not relevant as a result, and moshiach has not yet returned. so please, don't think me someone utterly unfamiliar with your faith. i'm not such a person.
  
  lbf: since you appear unfamiliar with it,
  
  ed

• Trinov said on Oct 31, 2007....

  To Silverwhispher: Yes the Isreali government is fallible, it is actually at the moment a bunch of fools, right out of the Chelm stories ( a mythical village where everyone is a bit nuts)....While the Temple has not yet been restored, it's time is coming....as for the Priesthood, the Cohanim, they are always relevant, they have a unique blessing which they give to a congregation, the Priestly Blessing, which no one else can provide, they and only they can redeem a baby boy who is not a Cohen or a Levi, roads in Israeli are built specially so that Cohanim can ride or walk on them without becoming ritually unclean from a grave that could be existing under the roadway. Their relevance to the Jews never stopped throughout all the generations of Exile. And--- someone who claims to be a Cohen who does not have a violent temper is not believed----for the Cohanim are from the Tribe of Levy who are known for their tempers, (I live with one)--I don't want to insult any one or anyone's intelligence and I find you intelligent, and it is interesting that you are getting angry yourself,but Ifbno7 is not necessarily reacting to you personnally, he is reacting to history, and a history that is relevant to him personally, and to the prevalent attitude among the liberals and liberal Jews that Israel is the one to blame for everything --just as the Jews were the ones to blame for anything and everything that happened in Poland, in Germany, in Austria, in White Russia, etc. ........Hey Ifbno7 are you a Cohen? or just a plain Levi?. The other possibility that comes to my mind is that you could be --like me--a Shimoni (Simon) --we also have violent tempers, and we are stillvmany times craftmen and teachers as we were in the First Temple Period.

• silverwhisper said on Oct 31, 2007....

  trinov: well, relative to the stature cohenim once held, it's certainly a lot less, esp when compared to rabbis, no?
  
  i am not angry at lbf. i am merely frustrated, b/c i always thought i got along OK with him. not that we were necessarily best friends or anything, mind--obviously, we weren't that!--but at least capable of cordial discussion.
  
  i grew up in a town that has a high orthodox jewish population. i know someone who studied to become a rabbi once--i don't recall under whom and i know that's highly relevant--so i have a better awareness than your average goy about these things.
  
  i just don't appreciate being called an anti-semite.
  
  incidentally, the rest of my comment to lbf was cut off, but honestly, that's probably for the best as my frustration was typing, not me.
  
  ed

• Trinov said on Oct 31, 2007....

  To Silverwhisper: Comparing a Cohen and a Rabbi is like comparing apples and pears. The Cohen is a heriditary position, which comes from G-d's choosing Aaron as the Cohen or Priest adn his children after him. A Cohen does not have to study to be a Cohen, but he has to learn the Priestly blessing and how to stand as he gives it, and when the Temple (Beit HaMikdash) is rebuilt Cohenim will have to study the laws involved with Temple Service. There is an organization that is starting these things up again, and the Temple vessels have been made, if only with gold plating....A Rabbi is a type of judge and to be a Rabbi a man has to pass a test on Jewish Law, and there are higher levels that he can reach.... In the Temple times most of the Rabbis were Cohanim, from what I remember,since they did not have farm land to work on and were free to study. ...My husband is a Levi, and has the Levi's talent for music, for the job of the Levi in the Temple is to sing, to play in the orchestra (all Jewish musicians could play in the orchestra while only Leviim were allowed to sing) and to guard the Temple and serve the Cohanim..... ...............I didn't get the impression that Ifbno7 was calling you an anti-semite at all. ...Try to understand his frustration at seeing a scenario that is forming now about the destruction of Israel, which is what a 'two state solution' is really all about. So is Annapolis. It is a spiritual battle that is part of Gog and Magog, or Armagedon and which could turn into a hot battle at any moment. It is very frustrating to be in America and see this happening, more than being in Israel. It is also frustrating to be here in Israel and to have an incompetant government not protecting the people living here but kowtowing to American and European pressure and worse. Especially when you are being shelled--as happened to us last year. But here we can do things that help us feel better --like change the windows to plexiglass or put contact on them or chicken wire to prevent being killed by glass fragments when it starts again, or fill up water jugs, or store up canned foods and cat food... younger people can get their reserve military gear in order.

• silverwhisper said on Oct 31, 2007....

  trinov: as i said, i'm not exactly unfamiliar with how things are in in israel re: cohinim and rabbis. perhaps it didn't seem to you that he was calling me an anti-semite, but to be compared to hitler is in most people's view exactly that. i understand his frustration, at least as much as a goyim ever can, but when you come right down to it, if the things i have to say enrage him to the point that he cannot respond to what i say but instead can only respond to these historic issues that are at best tangentially related to what i say is not a good thing.
  
  ed

• Trinov said on Nov 01, 2007....

  Silverwhisper: he actually said that "you wouldn't have shown any histrionics about Hitler either' and that would mean to me, that you would not have written exited prose about the Nazis, not that you were being compared to Hitler or the Nazi's themselves at all, G-d forbid....I think that what sometimes happens is that when there is a lot to read and we skim, we can get a wrong impression...in this there could be a generation gap, for when I skim I may react first and then ten minutes later I'll go back and re-read, for I was not brought up with the internet and only used to read quickly for things such as Political Science 101 which had thousands of totally boring pages to wade through, while everything else that I read would get underlined and/or highlighted at least, if not copied and footnoted....I don't have the memory I used to have, in which I could recall minor details -especially in an argument or type of debate-- that would stop my opponent in mid sentence, going : huh, where the hell did she read that? Is it true? Huh?

• silverwhisper said on Nov 01, 2007....

  [sigh]
  
  no, trinov, it isn't a generational thing. it's a "what are you paying attention to" thing.
  
  

  lbf quoth:
  it's kind of sad that the liberals, who owe their existence and their strength as much to the jews as anyone (it was the jews who started the NAACP, the jews always behind every liberal movement in america), have completely turned against the jews and sided with insanely racist jihadists who will never be satisfied until every jew in the middle east is either dead or a pissed-on non-citizen in an arab state...[much later but still the same comment]...they cheer charlie manson and hitler (emphasis mine).

  
  i admire that you want to defend lbf, but you aren't reading everything yourself.
  
  ed

• Trinov said on Nov 01, 2007....

  Ok, but who says he meant you? But it looks like I am leaving this time, not only since our full season of work in translations is starting, but as much as I have found lots of people here who are nice decent sensitive human beings, and some people struggling with being psychics and empaths like myself, whom I did want to reach out to, this is not my place...I don't know if anyplace is my place or if I will be happier on a Hebrew blog, my next option, or will get my pieces published in the places where they could matter... I believe now that when my husband's skills are honed we will open our own multi-lingual website, exactly what it will be I don't know yet....While I enjoy reading and answering some things, I have realized that my interests and the interests of most people here only meet about 5%...... I'm in a country which is on the verge of another war and the egg is cracking on this whole civilization that we've been accustomed to for the last say, 50 years or so...but most people are like ostriches and can't see it... and I'm just one person and I can't open anyone's eyes...........I guess I'll sign off with one message, that the one protection we all have 'karmically' is to help each other. We are all the children of the Creator and He forgives us when we get along, even if we don't give Him the credit that he deserves, so that each time someone writes a nice or a helpful blog or comment, he or she is giving the Creator pleasure in His Children and that pleasure will stand for that person and their family in the hard times. The same of course goes for any helpful action, just like the boy scouts taught...This is not just my opinion, it was the advice of the Lubavitcher Rebbe on how to survive the End of Days and be there to see the great things at the other end of the tunnel: a world of cooperation and great scientific progress that benefits every one.

• silverwhisper said on Nov 01, 2007....

  trinov: i am a liberal and lbf knew it at the time. as such, that comment was directed at me. it's really that simple.
  
  ed

• crybabylu said on Nov 06, 2007....

  trinov:  I'm afraid you are right, my friend,

• bluegum said on Feb 26, 2008....

  gooday trinov an intresting post

• Trinov said on Feb 26, 2008....

  Hello, bluegum, thank you.

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