• silverwhisper said on Oct 04, 2007....

  the kid is potentially retarded and he's being tried as an adult? that's just plain stupid.
  
  you make a good point here re: trying minors as adults, which somehow aesthetically seems to fly in the face of the presumption of innocence.
  
  ed

• bloc said on Oct 04, 2007....

  I'm curious about your opinion on the jena 6. What do you think about the nooses and the related punishment? What do you think about the original charges that were brought against the black kids relative to charges brought against the white kids?

• SeanRenaud said on Oct 04, 2007....

  I think it swings both ways and I didn't really hear much of an outcry from anybody not named Rush Limbaugh when that black group beat a pair of girls near to death, caused one's retina to detach and ended up getting in home probation for assault with a deadly weapon.  So it goes back and forth on that.  I'm not sure if this is racism or if that one was, it's likely that they both were but I can't get offended when it goes one way and doesn't go the other way.
   
  As for the nooses I think they got suspended for a day, it should have been longer but when all is said and done if you didn't physically harm somebody I don't think expulsion is the right answer. 

• bloc said on Oct 04, 2007....

  "when that black group beat a pair of girls near to death"
  I'm not familiar with this incident. Can you link to something about it?
  
  What I'm aware of is that the black students that beat up the white kid got severe charges thrown against them. All white kids got slaps on the wrist. For example, the nooses and there was a case where there was a confrontation and a white kid pulled out a shotgun. The black kids took the gun from him and left. The black kids where charged with theft and the white kid wasn't charged with anything for pulling out a shot gun. Having grown up in the south I'm intimately  familiar with the way justice is biased over there.
  
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Oct 04, 2007....

  I didn't know about the gun.  The gun is sufficient to warrant expulsion.  So would a knife.  So long as they are real, I'm tired of hearing the occasional 0 tolerance rule linked to a Super Soaker.
   
  http://wcbstv.com/local/Christina.Kenny.2.230139.html
   
  I can't seem to find the article where they discuss the punishment that was handed out though.

• bloc said on Oct 04, 2007....

  the gun wasn't at school and it was a real shotgun. 

• bloc said on Oct 04, 2007....

  um, your link isn't from the same place. I'm talking about the jena 6 and that town specifically. apples to apples

• SeanRenaud said on Oct 04, 2007....

  I know it was a different place, but just because something happened in the south doesn't mean it wasn't racist, nor does it mean that it was the wrong desicion.  I can't find anything else on that school to know what the general policy is.  If the kid was able to make it to an event that very same day he wasn't beaten that badly and there was very little reason (IMHO) to even get the police involved.  Boys will fight and anything you can walk away from with only minor bruising should be handled in house if possible.
   
  Still pulling a gun on somebody is a huge deal.  It's not like flinging around racial slurs or even hanging nooses from a tree.  Some things cross a line, burning a cross on a lawn, pulling a gun, dragging somebody from a truck. 
   
   

• bloc said on Oct 04, 2007....

  You claimed that the jena 6 case doesn't seem racist but you seem unfamiliar with the events surrounding the case.

• SeanRenaud said on Oct 04, 2007....

  What I've read and heard on it is thus.  There is a "white tree"  only whites sit under it.  Black kids sat under it.  This was followed with nooses being hung from the tree.  Which in turn lead to the blacks beating up the whites.  The worst one injured was taken for medical care but was able to attend a school function that evening.
   
  The six were charged, one of them as an adult with attempted murder.
   
  The charges were later downgraded but I don't know to what.
   
  I also said it was likely this was racism.  But the the thing is that I don't know what to fix about it and I see plenty enough reverse racism that I'm not all that shaken up when I see the normal kind.  How exactly is reverse racism even a term?  It's still racism no matter who is perpetrating it.
   
  The bottom  line is that should have been handled in house but I don't know how this is normally handled in this district.

• bloc said on Oct 04, 2007....

  detailed info
  
  Brief recap
   - a black student asked if he could sit under the "white tree" in a joking fashion. The principle said they could sit where ever they wanted
  
  - the next morning nooses were found hanging from the tree. the kids that hung the nooses got detention and some other school related punishments.
  
  - at a convenience store a white kid pulled a shotgun on some black kids. Reports conflict on how the incident started. The black kids got the gun away from the white kid and left. They were charged with three counts: theft of a firearm, second-degree robbery, and disturbing the peace. The white student who produced the weapon was not charged
  
  - there was a fight at school in which a white kid was knocked out and beaten by some black kids.
  
  - over a fist fight the black students were charged with attempted second-degree murder. One was charged as an adult. Charged with attempted murder over a fist fight!
  
  - the first day of trial for defendant Mychal Bell, Walters reduced the charges for Bell to aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to commit aggravated second-degree battery.[31] A charge of aggravated battery requires the use of a "deadly weapon". Walters therefore argued that the tennis shoes that Bell was wearing and used to kick Barker with were deadly weapons, an argument with which the jury ultimately agreed.
  
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Oct 04, 2007....

  Rediculous.  But they have dropped those charges if I understand properly.

• TinSoldier said on Oct 04, 2007....

  Meh. If a group of six kids of whatever color beat another kid of whatever color, that is a serious incident and should be treated as such.
  
  The "shotgun incident" seems to be in enough dispute as to not be able to find the truth of it, at least from our removal as disinterested observers.
  
  The reason that such things are prosecuted as adults is that even though we deem that younger people don't have the judgment of adults until certain ages, they do still have some judgment and should have a certain knowledge of right and wrong by a certain age. And some crimes are serious enough (and people of almost all ages should know it) that adult penalties apply.
  

• bewaresmoothtalkers said on Oct 05, 2007....

  Sean......this is directed to you, I'm going out of town friday & I don't want to get into a pissing match with Bloc or Sw. Jackson & Sharpton, along with about Ten thousand other people showed up in Jena to protest the charges brought aganist the Six black kids, one was charged as adult. The white kid that was beaten by the six was treated at the hospital & released. He had nothing to do with the noose incident. The Same thing happened in Virginia, right around the same time. Four Black kids beat up a white kid & they have it on tape. The White kid said he had no idea why the four jumped him. The police said they didn't think it was race related. You asked if kids should be tried as adults? My question to you, at what age do you think a kid becomes an adult? Most states think kids are mature enough at fifthteen to get behind the wheel of a vehicle thats capable of doing up to Hundred miles an hour. The Bloods or MS13 don't ask kids when they bring them into their clubs if their old enough to kill someone or sell drugs. Do you know some gangs require a new member to as they put it: " Bust a cap in his ass!" before they can be a member. This kind of crap is happening all over the country, & not just in the cities either!! BST

• tbs230 said on Oct 05, 2007....

  I think the question is, did he deserve to get tried as an adult? For once remove the race card.
  
  Several kids beat up a fellow schoolmate.
  
  Said schoolmate was brought to the hospital and treated and released, all on the same day.
  
  Charges were brought against the other kids.
  
  One kid, who had a run in with the law before was tried as an adult and found guilty of attempted second degree murder.
  
  The question is: Does the punishment fit the crime?
  
  I think not.
  
  Does the boy deserve to be punished?
  
  Hell yeah.
  
  Is the law fucked up (excuse the language)?
  
  Yes. And so is the system. People are so worried about the maturity level of kids, with good reason, that they feel that adult charges are sometimes necessary. I can't blame them.
  
  What Al and the black community SHOULD be doing is finding a way to get this kid out of the mess he's dug himself in.
  
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Oct 05, 2007....

  18.  I also advocate lowering the drinking age.

  Also maybe it's different in other states but in California you get a povisional liscense at 15.  You can't drive a night, you can't have friends in the car, etc etc. 

   

• NobodySpecial said on Oct 05, 2007....

  It's ridiculous that a tennis shoe is considered a deadly weapon. I could see maybe a pair of steel-toed boots, but tennis shoes?

• bloc said on Oct 05, 2007....

  that's because you forgot to qualify it. A black kid with tennis shoes turns them into deadly weapons :/

• SeanRenaud said on Oct 07, 2007....

  Yeah that is fucking retarded.  But like I said out here in California beating a girl with a skate board until her retina (reportedly) detatched not noly isn't racist it's acceptable so do we handle states individually or deal as a nation?

• bewaresmoothtalkers said on Oct 09, 2007....

  Sean.......The only reason I'm going bring to this up, Race has again become a defense, May I point out the Rodney King riots, first the police were charged with excessive force. they went to trial & was found not guilty, Then the Fed's decided to usurpe the state by charging these men with a Hate crime. The cops were white & King was black, ok,but the black men that were caught on tape hitting a white man in the head with a BRICK , not only wasn't charged with attempted murder-(the judge said there wasn't proof they were trying to kill the man), but no one even mentioned bring the black men up on a hate crime charge. I don't care who they are, or what color their skin is: These people that are so vocal for protecting peoples Civil Liberties should be up in arms over the protection of people aganist Double Jeopardy! Your right about the drivers age, but there are states that allow teenagers to drive during the day without adults in the car or with someone who is eighteen. I  would point out to you that gangs use under age kids to move their drugs for them, if their caught it is handled as a juvenile case. Did you hear about the case in Texas, (a number of gang members raped, tortured & then killed two little girls walking home from a party) They plead guilty to the crime, one or two have been put to death, two had their death sentences changed to life in prison because one boy was under eighteen & his younger brother was only 14 yrs old & the last guy will maybe get a new trial because he is an illegal immigrent, & he wasn't advised he could contact the Mexican embassy, even though he plead guilty. BST  

• bloc said on Oct 09, 2007....

  "the black men that were caught on tape hitting a white man in the head with a BRICK , not only wasn't charged with attempted murder"
  
  This is bullshit as is usual for you. They were charged with attempted murder!!! They were found not guilty which I think was a travesty of justice, but they were charged with it!
  

• bewaresmoothtalkers said on Oct 09, 2007....

  Bloc...... your worse then the jerk you pretend not to be! First I was making fun of your stupid remark about a tennis shoe being a deadly weapon & secondly I was making the point that those black men were not charged with a hate crime after they were found not guilty. Why don't you grow up & stop acting like the liberal moron you are! You need to go back trying to be a modern day Thoreau, after all every time you come up with an orginial thought, you sound like one of those demented college professors you obviously got your talking points from. Oh! before I forget, nows your chance to go learn about Sandy Berger, you remember the guy you said you knew nothing about because it was before your time. Well he's back in the news, he is an unofficial advisiore to the Clinton campaign. Maybe now you can do a blog on him to show everyone how neutral you are. 

• bloc said on Oct 09, 2007....

  "I was making the point that those black men were not charged with a hate crime after they were found not guilty."
  
  I think your point about them not being charged after being found not guilty is a good point. I agree with you about that in many ways, but you, alien, and d6 have a frequent tendency to say things that simply aren't true. They were charged with attempted murder and you ruin your legitimate point when you place loose with facts.
  
  
  

• bewaresmoothtalkers said on Oct 10, 2007....

  Bloc....I have no problem when you take me to task for something I said, it was the way you said it, made me response in like terms. My recollection as I heard it on the news was: The Judge dismissed the attempted murder charges, because there wasn't enough proof to warrant "attempted Murder", if he went to trial & the jury found him not guilty, then it would be the same as the King trial.
  Setting that arguement aside, Sean's question was whether kids should be tried as adults & I asked him at what age does he think a child can make adult decisions? A final point ; just this morning in Cleveland, OH, at an advanced high school, a fourteen year old boy brought several weapons to the school & killed at least two people. They are saying he was suspended after he was envolved in a fight with another student several days before.  In my opinion: We have traded in our blind justice system for Great Big Spotlights. The right of the accused to face his or her accuser has turned away many witnesses & have had many killed. We have seen how race has gone both ways in criminal cases & how a mistake by someone in the legal system has allowed a criminal to go free, not because they are innocent, but because the law has to adhear to strick guidlines, so that the one in ten innocent person is not  railroaded. Yet! it doesn't work that way, because we always hear of  innocent people being convicted anyway!! The system has failed to do what it was suppose to do, Protect the Innocent, while still protecting Society from the criminal element. Common sense should tell us that kids join gangs for at least two major reasons, It gives them a feeling of belonging & Protection from outsiders. Something the police nor schools can really do. BST

• bloc said on Oct 10, 2007....

  @bst
  my apologies for my wording. I get frustrated at times as we all do debating politics.
  

• bewaresmoothtalkers said on Oct 10, 2007....

  Thanks Bloc, I'm just as guilty or worse then the next guy when it comes to loosing my cool. BST

• chery said on Apr 10, 2008....

  I believe that even though some children commit some terrible crimes that the justice system is right for not treating them as adults. After all they are not entitled to do everything adults can they are not fully matured. Each child needs to be treated for what they have done and we need to help them see right from wrong.

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