• anonymous said on Sep 16, 2007....

  I dont have any kids yet, but my heart went out to you as I know how I was with my mom!  I just hope things work out OK

• secretlife said on Sep 16, 2007....

  i have 3 children.  2 daughters 17 and 14, and a son 11.
   
  First, the advice about not being your daughter's friend is GOOD advice.
  you cannot be her friend while she is growing up.
  Second, i think you are too lenient--
  10pm on school nights is late to be out.  and 1am on weekends way too late.
  my 17 yr old is only now able to go out on school nights.
  and then she must be in by 10 and it cannot be an every night thing.  once or twice a week.
  on the weekends, she has to be in my midnight.
  i do not just 'give' money.  my children earn the money either by doing chores or working.  $20 a week is alot just to give with nothing in return.
  once you just 'give', i've found kids expect.
  when they just expect, it means they do not understand the value.
   
  you know your daughter.
  you know the things that mean alot to her.
  if she is disrespectful, she has to lose a privilege-
  if she doesn't abide your rules she has to lose privleges.
  for example, with my 17 yr old, i take away her cell phone- i do it for a week and sometimes for a month-
  i ground her.  a week or longer depending.
  the most important thing is to be consistent in the punishment.
  you have to say clearly to her - if you talk like that to me again, you will  not be allowed out for a week.
  don't get angry, just enforce the rules.
  i know sometimes it feels like you just want to slap them, but there are far better ways of making your point.
   
  also, with the younger ones, when they see you are consistently following thru and not accepting the bad behavior, believe me, they will understand that you are the parent.
  and then it will be easier with them.
   
  good luck to you.
   

• Expendable said on Sep 16, 2007....

  Tell her if she wants more than the $20, she needs to start looking for a job.

• Elky said on Sep 17, 2007....

  Thanks for all your advice.
  My husband is around and always backs me up, be he is softer than me and she knows it.  But we have come to the agreement that if she asks him for something and I'm working he won't say yes till he's checked with me.  I work shifts, so my hours vary.
  The thing is she says I always say no!  When I do say no, she begs and whines and it drives me crazy.  I stand by my decision and in the end she curses and goes to her room.  I have tried telling her the conversation is over, I do not want her yelling and I ignore her when she continues.  This seems to work, in fact its getting better.  So now I know not to argue or comprise on important issue's.
  Taking her phone away, now thats a biggie!  I will try that.
  Today I will sit and make up a "chore chart" of things she's to do before she gets her allowance, and anything she doesnt do will have a financial penalty! Works for me! And if she does more things, she can get a bonus, only fair eh! (If only it will work - lol)
  So what your saying is - cruel to be kind?  Mmmm, I think I remember my ma saying that to me!
  Any advice on how I can get her to sit and chat like we used to? Or is that a thing I'll have to wait for till her hormones have calmed down.....
  

• rupert7 said on Sep 17, 2007....

  If she is like my youngest (and she sounds it) I am afraid she will be 20 before  you can have a half decent conversation with her! - called mine the daughter from hell!! good luck with it!

• lfbno7 said on Sep 17, 2007....

  The first thing to realize is that she is irrational and can't be reasoned with.  Don't expect rationality.  Give up on her being reasonable.  Not the way you have described her.  Some kids are, some aren't.  I was at her age.  I was no trouble and didn't behave as you have described her.  Many kids wouldn't dream of acting the way yours does.  But many others are exactly as you describe yours.
  
  Second, don't give her a dime.  Nothing.  No twenty.  Nothing.  She has to do something if she wants something.  There are things she can do.  Dishes, laundry, cooking, cleaning up, vacuuming.  Make her do something if she wants her first penny.  Give her absolutely NOTHING for nothing.  That's one possible way to penetrate through her wall of ME ME ME.
  
  Third, watch your own tone of voice.  Don't be a wussy.  Don't try to reason with her or satisfy her.  Don't let her think that her opinion means anything to you one way or the other.  Don't look for her approval.  Your tone of voice must let her know that you are not dependent on her approval or consent.  If she is being rude or unreasonable, your tone of voice should communicate that you think she is not acting appropriately and therefore her approval or consent is irrelevant, because it is YOU that has to be satisfied, not her.
  
  That doesn't mean loud or screamy.  It generally means quiet, firm as a rock, and most of all, completely apathetic as to her reaction.
  
  She's the boss.  You need to stage a coup.  Good luck.
  

• lfbno7 said on Sep 17, 2007....

  Oh, and if she yells, I think it might be a good idea to yell louder and more intensely in a short burst, out-violence her in that way.  I would.  Scare her off that tactic.  It leaves the wrong impression if she gets in a parting shot that makes her look like alpha female in her own eyes.  I wouldn't let that pass.  Get violent in your voice for a short burst and don't let her be alpha female.

• Actorguy said on Sep 17, 2007....

  I have a 17 YO daughter.  I have to keep telling myself that teens need and expect boundaries....they don't like them....they will rant and rail against them, but they need them.  It is perfectly normal for teens to test and probe these boundaries, to see what they can get away with.  This is a normal part of growing up.  My daughter has learned...most days...that yelling and screaming has no upside.  It doesn't get her what she wants, it only gets privledges taken away.  The only way to get what she wants is to remain calm and present a reasonable argument of why she should have it.  Some days teenager and reasonable don't belong in the same sentence, but just stay consistant and they will learn.
   
  I think every teen in the world has used the argument that all their friends get everything they want and they get nothing.  Its another attempt to manipulate you and just ignore it.

• pickersplock said on Sep 17, 2007....

  I completely agree with everything said so far.
  Secretlife is absolutely right about being consistant.
  If you give in to whining, yelling, and demands once, it'll be twice as hard next time because they know they can get to you.

• exhibit_c said on Sep 17, 2007....

  It's interesting that you start out by saying she wants money and
  independence and then go on to add details of terrible behavior that
  are really separate issues. At 15 (mid-ish high school), she deserves a lot
  more independence that she had a couple years ago, but I agree with the
  advice given above that the curfews you cite are very generous.
  
  There are a couple different things going on. We never had any real
  trouble with our kids as teenagers, but my sister had a girl who hardly
  uttered a civil word for about three years. I tend to think that there
  is a hormonal (or other biological) syndrome that's a big part of the
  problem. I'm sure that it can  also be compounded by peer
  pressure, etc.
  
  You have to make it very clear that she is part of the family and that
  civil behavior is absolutely required. The first rule of dealing with
  tantrums or guilt trips is to never, never, never let them pay off. (If
  the kid is smart, he/she will switch to more complex behaviors that are
  harder to deal with, but first things first!)
  
  Be consistent, be fair, insist on proper behavior in the family, and don't let your own anger influnce your behavior.
  

• wakingharmony said on Sep 17, 2007....

  1st~ Get some good padding installed around your heart~ everything  said so far sounds good~ There is no way around the hormones! And telling them you were there once.......No Way!! Everything is so tramatic.....there will be Days you and she will cry your eyes out. Reassure her you love her but dont back down. your going to hear "That is so retarded!!" You let me before!!! Say you are very aware of that but things are changing.....You will be accused of hating them and being mean possibly.......Simply reply....If I hated you I would not even bother. My youngest of 6 is 17....4 girls.... I have actually been pretty lucky........but hormones will take our babies away .... Good Luck and God Bless!!

• Gypsyheart said on Sep 17, 2007....

  Most of the advice given so far has been spot on. The chore chart is a great idea, and come summer she should be old enough to get a job and earn her own money.
  Unfortunately hormones do play a part in this, but the way you handle the situations that arise will help determine the outcome.  Try and discuss what she thinks are "fair" boundries, and if you can, come up with a compromise. If she gets to play a part in it, even if her demands are unreasonalble, she may feel better about abiding by the rules.
  Leave yelling at her as a last resort, nothing gets resolved by yelling. I have often used the phrase with my husband's family (they live at the top of their lungs) "When you are calm and can talk to me with out yelling, we can finish this conversation."
   
  I think you're doing a good job, they talk about the terrible twos, but the worst part of raising children is the terrible teens. :o )
   
  Good luck. 

• simplyklo said on Sep 17, 2007....

  Wow, the things I have to look forward to ... I feel for you.  My oldest is only 9 so I haven't faced that yet but I can see it coming.  And what scares me is that some of her friends are already starting to develop and get the moody hormone thing going on ...
   
  I think you've been given a lot of good advice and I'm certainly taking note in case I need it later on ... I'm already preparing to be "the worst" for several years though ... I remember how I was with my parents (and that they should have put their feet down even more than they did and they were pretty tough with me) ... I have already gotten, "we don't do anything, you don't buy me anything, I'm so bored, you're the worst" blah, blah, blah a few times ... the whole tirade.  I've sent mine to her room and told her that she may think I'm the worst right now but when she starts getting even less and I no longer allow her to invite friends over to play on the weekend, then she'll really know how bad things can get!  So far that's generally shut her up.

• fightagainstego said on Sep 17, 2007....

  Her behavior sounds pretty normal. Punishment is the only thing that's effective. Take away the cell phone--don't just threaten to take it away if she misbehaves or disrespects you....actually follow through!  You should also stop just giving her money. Make her work for it or she will be spoiled rotten.

• nytquill17 said on Sep 17, 2007....

  I am not a parent, but I'm not too far off those teenage years myself.  I don't think I was quite like your daughter (but it's so hard to judge yourself, so I can't really say!)  And I don't know what it must feel like to watch a child that you've loved, nurtured, and safeguarded from when they could do nothing for themselves, go through all this change so fast.  It must be really hard.
  
  I can't tell you what a parent should do, because I'm not one, but I can remember a few things from the other side of the equation.  You probably feel like she's becoming someone else - and she is.   It's important to leave room for her to change (though that doesn't mean letting her walk on you or anyone else in the family!)  My parents tried too hard to hang on to their "baby" and I wasn't able to develop properly as an individual.
  
  I remember I really hated being told that whatever I was going through was "just a phase."  Even though it was true!  To me,everything that happened was serious and it really bugged me being pushed off to the side just because it wouldn't last forever ("but it's happening to me NOW! I don't care about forever!") or because I wasn't a grownup yet.  But being older now, I understand how frustrating it is for the grownups too, to have to deal with every little thing as if it were a national crisis!  But it means a lot at that age to be taken seriously - assuming she's earned that kind of respect from you.
  
  If it helps any, being moody, secretive, and selfish are totally normal at this age.  So is pulling away from you and not wanting to spend time with you.  None of it means she's going to turn out to be a bad person.  There have actually been studies and research, to do with hormones, social life, growth, and brain development to show that these things are all normal and pretty much can't be helped.  It's all "part of growing up," as they say, stuff she and you have got to go through for her to get from A to B.  That doesn't make it any easier to live with - and you've still got to help her learn to respect rules, be responsible, take care of herself and others, learn the skills she'll need to survive as an adult - but maybe it will help you feel more hopeful for later on!
  

• Elky said on Sep 18, 2007....

  Thank you all for your advice, it really helps.  It was very interesting to hear from nytquill17 and get a different prospective. 
  I know I have to work on myself too, I should not let her whinning get to me, its so easy to give in and do or buy her what she wants.
  I love that feeling when she gets what she wants, she loves me and hugs me, but it doesnt last, the next day its a new day with new things she "has to have"
  So I decided to use this tactic to get her to sit and have a mother and daughter chat.  She was thrilled she got some new nick-nacks and I was thrilled to have time with her alone doing what all girls like best - spending! I saw it as an investment!
  So when we were done, we sat down and I told her how I feel and how its going to be from now.  I was suprised, she was so understanding and open to my ideas (or should I say your ideas!) She even asked if I'd seen a shrink for advice!  (Thanks guys!) There were no raised voices, although she did shed a few tears at the prospect of losing her cellphone as punishment - she see's it as one of life's necessities!  I set out a plan of boundaries and tasks.  If she keeps to it she gets her allowance, if no, not!  I set penalties and bonuses too.
  So, today is a new day, we started off OK, she went to school happy.
  I know that this is not a magic remedy, but I feel now I have some guidance of how to handle each situation and how to get through each "tantrum"
  Thank you all :-)
  

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