• botoni said on Sep 06, 2007....

  KRUU.....I think, sometimes, you think to much!.....lol. Just to toss this in to your post, I ve known several people who classified themselves as transgendered, went through gender alteration and then chose a partner of the same new gender. To make that more clear, men in body, who have had sex changes. Prior to their alteration they chose men as their sex partners but after they chose women as their sex partners.

• kruuyai said on Sep 06, 2007....

  botoni:  Wait, wait, back up a minute.  The ones who had sex changes... were they in male bodies to start out with, or did they get changed to males?  I think you're saying they were men (who used to mate with men), then changed their physical sex to female and suddenly started mating with women?  Oh, that's too weird.  Did they ever tell you why?   Maybe they just really liked the gay scene? 
  
  My EC had a friend who went from a male to a female body, but the hormones that s/he had to take played such havoc that s/he was always an emotional mess.  Doesn't quite seem worth it to me. 
  

• botoni said on Sep 06, 2007....

  Yes KRUU. You got it right. Started with male bodies and so on. I never did manage to get a clear explaination beyond a shrug.

• kruuyai said on Sep 06, 2007....

  lol... maybe they were just into trying out new things... new bodies for themselves, new bodies for their lovers... yow!

• the_infernal_optimist said on Sep 06, 2007....

  I don't believe that our souls have gender. The essence of who I am has nothing to do with my femininity, just as it has nothing to do with the color of my skin or the length of my legs.
  
  ~Infernal
  

• quietone said on Sep 06, 2007....

  okay how bout this...a male has a sex change to become a woman...and then dates women...whats with that?? I also think souls do not carry a gender....gotta go to work...

• beyondtheveil said on Sep 06, 2007....

  kruu- A soul left from the body is pure essence without form. The only way I know of that a soul could have any kind of form is through thought and it wouldn't be physical form. Just exactly what would a soul do with gender? I doubt very seriously that new souls (if there is such a thing) come about by Immaculate Heavenly Soul Copulation.
  
  Our body (matter) is a lower level of consciousness with a different vibration than a higher level. A low vibration exhibits temporary material forms of dna, chemicals, and emotions we don't understand and have great difficulty dealing with. The real difference between genders is narrow, and at times with little clear cut emotional demarcation.
  
  Is it any wonder there are at times emotional variations from established norm? This happens not only in gender confusion, but in many other areas of human psychological "abnormal" displays. I don't see a woman "feeling" they are in the wrong body too far removed from a straight man with a feminine side or a straight woman with a masculine side- they are both one step away from desiring to be the other.
  
  J. Edgar Hoover was a cross-dresser and the republican party has shown that switch-hitters can crop up anywhere. People the world over are filled with many emotional predispositions and where the need is greatest is where people act on them.
  
  I don't know if I agree with you and 7 that this example is a cop out. That requires that first, we designed our challenges and a body with its attending capabilities before birth. Second, that we have total freedom of choice and free will- neither of which I believe. It is too much for me to accept that this one little "jaunt" overrides the very real possibility of infinite realms or dimensions and places itself as the one and only deciding factor for all eternity.
  

• ninjapirate said on Sep 07, 2007....

  I totally agree that souls are gender less.  Although, I could say that my soul likes to watch things explode, but perhaps socially that points to a male trait, but I'm a girl.  So defintion of whats male and female could be argued as purely society driven and then souls are definetly gender less because souls wouldn't be so picky?  If I'm missing your point, which I do, sorry hehe.  Anyway, I liked what you had to say about how one's body can make you feel so limited, I know what you mean!  Also what the monks and you said about being enlightened, very interesting stuff to me!  That last part on gay souls and different gendered bodies getting together, I swear I never would have thought of that!  Seems very creative and now I'll have to think about it. 

• kruuyai said on Sep 07, 2007....

  infernal:  Well put.
  
  quiet:  Just like botoni's friends (in the comment above).  lol... I guess it happens.
  
  beyond:  I think I do believe that we choose the basic set up for each of our lives according to what it is that we need to learn at any stage.  I think we choose our parents... maybe our bodies, too.  One of the reasons I believe this (other than just the  fact that I choose to believe it, because I like the idea) is that I chose to be born to very challenging parents (in the sense that they would mess me up so bad that I'd have a hard time dealing with life), and that seems to be a personality trait that I've carried with me... I always seem to choose the more challenging option, even when there's an easy way out... with school, work, etc.  (well, not always, but usually).  Although, I believe that karma plays a role, too, but maybe we even get to choose when we want to pay off our karma.  But even if it wasn't a personal choice that the soul made to be born into a transgendered body (assuming there is such a thing), then I think it's still a cop out... a desire to find a loophole in the lessons or challenges that this lifetime has presented us with.  Of course, it's easy for me to say, because I don't have this feeling of being the wrong gender. 
  
  "It is too much for me to accept that this one little "jaunt" overrides the very real possibility of infinite realms or dimensions and places itself as the one and only deciding factor for all eternity."  I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to say here.  Could you please elaborate?
  
  ninja:  I do think that a lot of so-called male and female traits are society driven, but not all.  There have been studies with children who were too young to have been heavily influenced by society, and when given a choice, boys tended to prefer playing with mechanical toys like cars and trucks, and girls with dolls.  That said, when I was a little girl, I hated playing with dolls, indeed my Barbie doll was the only  one I had,,, but I had a cool red fire truck with little white plastic firemen. Even when I was in junior high, I had a Hot Wheels set.
  

• kruuyai said on Sep 07, 2007....

  Come to think of it, when I was very young, up 'til about the fourth grade, I used to go around saying (at least to my parents), "I'm not a girl.. I'm a boy."  I think I was just more attracted to "male"  types of adventure.  I'd rather be an Indian (Native American) princess than an English princess... I wanted to be tough and strong.  But I was never athletic at all (just dreamed about being able to survive in the wilderness... maybe because I wanted to run away from home), and I hate football and other spectator sports, and all the typical stuff that guys are into.  But I do have a good mechanical ability, and I love to tinker, and have worked on my own car and done a lot of my own home repairs and remodeling.  So, what does that make me?  I still feel that I am a woman (hear me roar), but that women have just been limited by too many stereotypes, and it's time for us to break out of that (at least those of us who want to).

• Suddenrain said on Sep 07, 2007....

  I won't say the question has never crossed my mind, just not in such depth.  LoL You are a very deep thinker Kruu.  :-)

• kruuyai said on Sep 07, 2007....

  Sudden:  lol... either that, or I've got waaaaaaaaay too much time on my hands. ;-)

• destinydiva said on Sep 07, 2007....

  wow, what an interesting insightful post :-)
  I'm just soaking it in... I think I agree with the soul having no gender :-)
  I'm very girly, yet there are some things about me that are quite manly! I think thats why guys seem to enjoy my company, one friend said its like hanging out with the lads but you have boobies!!  lol or something like that :-) My mum says I drive like my dad, so do I have manly traits? or did I just 'pick those up ' from my dad?
  
  I dont have typical woman traits either, well I do but I lack some!! like enjoying beer!! and I dont tend to do jealousy or worry or anything. with my kids I am mum, but I'm not really a mumsy mum, I dont do sewing and stuff! I hate ironing!! lol  and I love sex!! anytime anywhere!! like blokes do..
  
  oh my god...i am a man trapped in a womans body!!!!  lmao...ok I am joking about.
  
  But seriosly again, our hormone balance has an immense effect on our femininity or masculinity so if our hormones are out of balance, then maybe that could make us feel as thought we are a man trapped in a womans body or vice versa???
  
  anyways, i shouldnt comment till i am fully awake and have had at least 3  cups of tea!!!  I dont think i made much sense at all here :-)
  
  xx
  
  
  

• kruuyai said on Sep 07, 2007....

  destiny:  I think what you mentioned about hormonal balances affecting our masculinity or femininity is a good argument against souls having gender.  Then again, a woman with a high level of testosterone would show some physical signs like increased body hair, lower voice, etc.  But TT, who is convinced that she is a man in a woman's body, doesn't show any outward signs of masculinity.  And I don't know her well enough to comment on her personality, but it's all very interesting and very confusing, don't you think?

• destinydiva said on Sep 07, 2007....

  yeah very confusing!! :-) but I know I'm happy being a woman :-)
  
  hormones bring on those types of features, but also effect our reactions to situations and our emotions, I wonder if they check the hormone balance of those like tt?? before they start chopping bits off or adding them?  :-) xx
  

• kruuyai said on Sep 07, 2007....

  destiny:  That would be a good question to ask.  I'd guess it would depend on the ethics of the individual doctor in question.  

• botoni said on Sep 07, 2007....

  The pre-screening requirements for gender alteration are very thorough. Prior to actual surgery a candidate must live completely as the gender to which the change is requested. They have to dress in the appropriate apparel and even go to work in it. There are many other requirements as well. I ve known several people who have undergone surgery. It seems to me that few live very self satisfying lives after the operations. I only know two who feel they have accomplished and are 'happy' in their new assignment. I likely know another 8 or 9 at least. They all live with some very major issues.

• evil_twin said on Sep 07, 2007....

  I don't think souls have a gender. If you believe in reincarnation and read up on the accounts of people's past lives, most people have been both genders throughout the course of time. It's your body that dictates which sex you identify with, not your soul. And people who are confused about this, like the examples you've given, likely have something in their brains and chemical makeup that makes them different. I don't think it's a case of their soul being born into the wrong body.
  
  Although, if you were a woman in one life, and the next you were a man, there is the possibility of your soul being confused about it's role in this life. You could be remembering what it was like for you in the last life, and not realize it. And therefore, you could be gender confused on a much more spiritual level. But that does not  mean your soul has gender, but that it has memories.
  
  -evil_twin LA
  

• thenack said on Sep 07, 2007....

  Wow what a long post, I will like to read it when I get time, ((I scanned through)

   

  I think that souls have gender in the sense that they may fullfill certain "roles" or have certain attributes that are defined as Male or Female. I doubt if a soul has a penis, but there must be a difference.

   

  The bible defines certain attributes as male or female. and I think souls may be defined as male or female by their list of attributes. (male and female is equal, but diferent roles)

   

   

• thenack said on Sep 07, 2007....

  reincarnation, whatever. This is it, you won't ever get another chance at life so stop being fooled and realise, this is it. (I wouldn't be taking chances if there was any doubt, should you?) Make every second count you will never have them again)

• kruuyai said on Sep 07, 2007....

  botoni:  Yeah, like EC's friend who always acts like s/he has PMS from hell.  The emotional swings are incredible.  I think that, like with most things, it's more constructive to accept the hand that life has dealt you and go from there.   I mean, I'm not thrilled that I was given such small breasts, but it has never even occurred to me to have implants or even to pad my bra (if I were to wear one).  Still, I've managed to get a lot of mileage out of those little buggers, and when I have a mind to, I feel sexy.   But with regard to the transgender issue, specially when homosexuality is so accepted these days (relatively), I think that, if it were me, I'd rather just live a gay or lesbian lifestyle than go through an operation that would require hormone therapy for the rest of my life.  

• kruuyai said on Sep 07, 2007....

  e_t: VERY good point, and one we haven't considered before. That souls have memories.  I think that's, more likely than not, a good part of the explanation.  Especially if one has been one gender or the other for many lifetimes and then suddenly finds themselves in the other role.  Could be very confusing. 
  
  thenack:  Long post!  lol... this is one of my short ones... by far!  If you're talking about gender in the sense of yin and yang, perhaps some souls are more inclined in one direction than another.. of course, that's assuming that a soul remains a coherent entity throughout all its lifetimes.  You don't believe in reincarnation.  I do.  But I'm not sure if I believe that we come back with the same consciousness or energy mass, or if our energy mass gets mixed up with other energy masses (other people, critters, rocks, plants, etc.) after we die, and then recombine to form a new entity.  Even in life, we are more connected to everything than we realize, and less a "self" than we realize as well.  Our energy is constantly mixing with our environment, and in a certain period of time, even though we haven't died, we don't have one single body cell that we had when we started out.   

• Twylarants said on Sep 07, 2007....

  And this is why I comment far more than I post....you people are waaaay too smart for me!   See, look....here's the note I left myself after reading Kru's post...  "TWYLA ! DO NOT EMBARRASS YOURSELF!!   PRETEND YOU COULDN"T FIND YOUR WAY BACK TO THIS PAGE !!!"   I'm such a wuss.
  Anyway, here are my rambling thoughts on the matter, for better or worse :
  
   I don't believe in the soul, I'm an atheist.  Hope no one just said "Yecch, I can't read HER!"  I'm a very respectful atheist with no desire to argue the point except to say this - I've met more intolerant  believers than nonbelievers in my very long life.
  
  If I'd had a daughter I think she would have been very much like Ninja or you, Kru, because I am also not a "girly" girl, never have been.  I'd rather be building something than cleaning or cooking something.  Take me to a construction site and I turn into a little boy...ooh, big trucks!
  
   I've known a couple of transgenders, one was the adopted child of neighbors back home, the other was my mother's uncle, an Italian immigrant.  I don't know what happened to the neighbors' son, but I remember his dad trying to "make a man outta him" by knocking him around.   Idiot.
  My uncle went to Europe when I was a teenager and I never saw him again although he did come back.   According to my mother, he had surgery over there in the 1960s and only lived as a woman a few years before committing suicide.  There was no support, professional or personal, for him here in those days, and I can only imagine how terrible it must have been for him to return to the states and try to live in his old neighborhood in a new body as a woman.
  
  I believe in nature over nurture.  If I had given my boys a doll to play with, would they have grown up to be gay men?  Nah, I don't think so.  I gave them doctor kits, and guess what?  Not one damn doctor!
  
   I don't believe we choose to be born heterosexual or homosexual anymore than we choose to be born healthy or disabled, black or white, male or female. I don't believe we "choose" to be born at all.  That's nature... egg and sperm and all that.
  
  I don't think homosexuality and transgenderism are the same thing. (Spell check wants me to change "transgenderism" to "transcendentalism"...I'll think about it.)
  This is difficult to explain, but if you're still reading I hope you get it :
  My thought is that lesbians are not men trapped in women's bodies and gay men are not women trapped in men's bodies.  Each prefers to be with a same sex partner, not just sexually, but emotionally.  So it's not a body thing, it's a brain thing.  I don't mean a thought process, I mean in the sense that the brain controls every function of our bodies....emotions, breathing, walking,  uh....sneezing, everything. The brain we are born with determines how we live our life. That sounds way too simplistic for what I'm trying to say.
  Oy, this is starting to hurt my brain...help me somebody!  This post will be a week old before I get my two cents in!
   So, with transgenders (again with the friggin' spell check!), I think it's more biological, the way nature set up the body during  the egg/sperm  meeting.
  Some babies are born with sexual organs that make it impossible to determine whether the baby is male or female, and I can't remember what that's called, but I'm sure you guys do.  In the old days the doctors thought  these babies should be raised as boys, because, I don't know, boys were better?  But what if their brains were girls' brains? And with some babies the organs are obviously male or female, but what if the brain is the opposite sex?  
  We can choose a lot of different paths in our lives, but there are things over which we have no control.  Would any of us consciously make the choice to live a lifestyle that was judged by people who mean nothing to us?
   If the universe were different, if, somehow,  nature, or evolution, or God for that matter, had determined that humankind would pair up only with the same sex, wo

• Twylarants said on Sep 07, 2007....

  Did I go over the character limit?
  If nature, evolution, God..blah blah blah..ok, hear we go:
  "would I have chosen to be born heterosexual?"
  And now I'm gonna have 3 cups of tea.  Destiny, wanna join me?
  
  

• kruuyai said on Sep 07, 2007....

  Twyla:  I love the way you think and write!  The things you say make a lot of sense, and you crack me up, too.   I'm an atheist, too, by the way, but I speak of souls simply because I cannot conceive of my own non-existence.  Which, I imagine, is why most people believe in souls and an afterlife, and a god. 
  
  Interesting about the "girly" girl and tomboy syndromes.   I'm not into trucks anymore... I don't even notice cars, and I like to cook, but only recreationally.  I don't wear make up, or bras, but I do wear men's jockey shorts, and I am pretty multidimensional as far as my interests, which I see as more of a masculine trait than a feminine one (just from my experience)... so I feel pretty well balanced between the two gender stereotypes, anyway. 
  
  Sorry your kids didn't turn out to be doctors.  I know you did your best.. lol
  
  About your uncle committing suicide.. I would imagine that the hormone therapy had a lot to do with that, which is why I think it's not a great idea.  I wonder why he returned to his old neighborhood?  I would think it would have been much easier to have started his new life in completely new surroundings.  And I'm really, really surprised to learn that they were doing sex change operations as far back as the sixties!
  
  I appreciate your input on the differences between transgenderism and homosexuality.  I'm still struggling with that one.  I've heard that all fetuses start out as female, and some of them develop into males... or that we all start out as both?   Now, I'm getting confused again.  Dang it, Twyla! 
  
  And, very good point about people not likely to choose a lifestyle that would put them on the fringes of society and estrange them from their families.  It's an argument I've often made.  The only ways that I could see that choice consciously being made are 1) as a pre-birth choice to set up an earthly learning experience (I know, you don't believe in that), or 2) a victim of childhood sexual abuse feeling safer with his or her own sex.
  

• kruuyai said on Sep 07, 2007....

  Twyla:  That's weird... Part of your comment disappeared.  It was there before, I swear... you asked destiny if she wanted lemon with her tea!

• wakingharmony said on Sep 07, 2007....

  Hi Krruuyai, Very Interesting post...Something justs says to me that our souls are everything we need..I believe both male and female if someone feels the need to identify with gender. In the same sense that we each have male and female hormones, in the baggage we carry around called a body.   I so agree with what you say about this body holding us  back. That is what I what I was trying to say in "Dear God Am I still Grounded"..but you explain that part better.   Another thing I have found Amazing is how we develope into the gender we are. Have you Ever Read (I am almost certain you have :) )  "The Naked Ape"  How the clitoris is the mini penis, and the line you see that is on the  scrotum, is a scar from deveolpment that form to close the labia. I also find it interesting that  the male  is the one that needs to implant the Y chromosome in order for a male to develope. The X is already present..So this  means that the woman has the penis (clitoris) 1st ..  and if the male deposits a Y chromosone  only then  will it be seen as a male Penis (full grown clitoris) . lol ok I hope I didn't just sound like an Idiot.

• Twylarants said on Sep 07, 2007....

  Wow Kru, do you type fast! That post took me an hour to type.
  I love the way you took my thought about choosing a lifestyle and made it intelligible. My son calls the way I write "stream of consciousness" which I think means that I write in sound bites, the way I talk.. like a bumper sticker. I've also heard that fetuses begin as female, but I heard it about chickens, not humans. See? There I go!
  I know what you mean about not being able to conceive of your non-existence. Yet I find the thought of just ending my existence, hopefully not for 40 years or so, preferable to agonizing over whether I'm going to heaven or hell. I've been to hell..didn't like it.
  My Uncle Armondo..oh, he was so handsome. I just remember he was younger than my mom, even though he was her uncle, and everybody whispered in Italian about him. I believe he went to Sweden, I think because of Christine Jorgenson, the actress who underwent surgery in Copenhagen, and it could have been in the early 70s, not 60s (damn drug flashbacks killed my memory!) I met her in Patsy's, a bar in NY in the 70s. Lord, was she ugly close up!
  When Armondo came back, he called himself Michelle and got a job in a cookie factory, but his co-workers gave him a terrible time. I vaguely recall hearing something about hormone therapy for a time before his surgery and afterwards trying to find a doctor here to treat some post-surgical problems he was having, and my Aunt Marie, his sister, having a nervous breakdown after he died. There's no one left in my family to ask about these things, I'm the oldest one alive, the Matriarch, if you will, (ewww, I'm only 58) so I started blogging to jog my memory. Blogging to Jog...I like that. Things that other Soulcasters write about remind me of events in my life, that's why I read and comment more than I post. It's like sitting at the kitchen table with my family, eating baked ziti and crusty Italian bread and drinking wine and just tossing stuff out there to hear what everyone thinks. God, I miss those days.
  Anyhow, that's a subject for another bumper sticker.
  
  
  

• wakingharmony said on Sep 07, 2007....

  sorry I must have been typing forever lol ^^^ I missed Twylarants way up there where she got cut off Man Im slow Then I read practically my own words above me...Geeze.. lol

• kruuyai said on Sep 07, 2007....

  Hey, everyone.. i thought my post made it to the top of the Featured Posts page, and then I realized I was on my own blog page.  Oh well.   It was good while it lasted.
  
  waking:  I agree.  I think we all have elements of both and live somewhere along the spectrum (or somewhere along the speculum).  Are you going to give me a link to that post (Dear God, Am I Still Grounded?) or do I have to go scrounging?  You really have no idea how god damned lazy I am, do you?  To give you an idea, I should have been working on lesson plans for the last two days, but instead, i've been hanging out here.  Could have had them done by now.  But that's me.  I have not read the Naked Ape, but now you have me intrigued, and you did not sound like an idiot.  You never do.
  
  Twyla:  I think you made your own thought intelligible.  I didn't have anything to do with it.  I also write in a stream of consciousness, always have.  The way I write is exactly the way it would come out of my mouth.  Which isn't always good.. lol.  I never agonize over whether I'm going to heaven or hell, because i don't believe in heaven and hell, except as a state of being, in which case, I've spent my share of time in hell, too.  You are one funny lady, Twyla.  I think I'm falling in love!  lol
  

• wakingharmony said on Sep 07, 2007....

  Darn I still havent figured out that link thing I dont have may post maybe if i add something it will pop up then I better figure out that link thing

• Twylarants said on Sep 07, 2007....

  If we all keep commenting, will Kru's post go to the top of the featured posts page? Is that legal? 'Cuz I can go on and on, I'm off today and the Bug Hunter made this thingy that lets me type even with the medieval device I'm wearing on my hand.  How many posts do you need to get to the top?  Maybe Soulcaster won't notice, maybe he/she slept in today.
  

• wakingharmony said on Sep 07, 2007....

  Yep  it is on Page One.... any way I did the comment on my own post how crazt that fet since there are only 3 and 2 are mine...Lol  I have to put in my own 2 cents even on my own....

• buckrogers said on Sep 07, 2007....

  The physical body is karma and we are all under illusion to experience a world of illusion.  The soul has no gender and the physical body is a temporary, biological appendage necessary to experience the world. 

  You are born into a particular body and environment as a spiritual test to further your soul's journey to higher realms, primarily to overcome the tramatic experiences of birth and death.  Desires, whether for a sex change, new car, girl/boy friend, are delusional and lead you off of your spiritual path. 

  You indicated you had trouble meditating.  This, as you probably know, is important for your progress.  But the trouble you are having shows me you haven't been doing it for long or at least you haven't advanced enough for it to become natural for you.  Ask God for help and be surprised how far you will advance in knowledge and sprituality.   

   

   

• destinydiva said on Sep 07, 2007....

  lol @ tw  :-)  your funny!!  :-)
  
  @ kru   ~I agree with evil twin that the soul has memories and I love this post!!!
  
  :-)
  
  Destiny xx
  
  
  
  

• Twylarants said on Sep 07, 2007....

  Destiny - it's the tea! You think a bunch of drunks are funny, you should see me & my 3 sisters-in-law when we get together and drink tea. We give a whole new meaning to the phrase "getting pissed" ! Thank God for multiple bathrooms!

• destinydiva said on Sep 07, 2007....

  tw you are too funny!!!  I'm adding you to my table on memyself&I's post !!!!!
  yes I'd love to join you for tea :-)  or wine or baileys...or at this moment in time anything containing alcohol and that has the ability to temporarily numb the soul :-)
  
  
  kru~ I do that so many times!!!!!  lol :-)
  

• wakingharmony said on Sep 07, 2007....

  destiny I havent drank in a long time but Ive seen you mention baileys a few times & If I didn't live 20 min from a Liquor store I'd go get some.

• destinydiva said on Sep 07, 2007....

  yep waking I am a baileys addict :-) 

• lfbno7 said on Sep 07, 2007....

  I'm either just a guy or I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

• destinydiva said on Sep 07, 2007....

  lmao mr7 :-) 

• Zayda said on Sep 07, 2007....

  Kruuyai--Actually, gender isn't physical; sex is. Sex (male or female) is, more specifically biological; it speaks of the biological differences between women and men. Sex (male or female), btw, should not be confused with sexual orientation (heterosexual, homosexual, bi-sexual). Gender (masculine and feminine) is socially constructed behavior and identity tags. How we define what is masculine and feminine is based on cultural and social expectations of what it means to be masculine and feminine.
  
  Some researchers even argue that masculinity and femininity are semiotic constructions along with being social constructions. See for instance, Deborah Tannen's article "Marked Women, Unmarked Men", Alice Rutkowski's essay "Why Chicks Dig Vampires, Sex, Blood, and Buffy", Holly Devor's book Gender Blending: Confronting the Limits of Duality.
  
  For instance, in American culture, when we say a woman is very feminine that means she meats certain social/cultural and social expectations of what it means to be feminine. She has a certain body image, she wears her hair in certain ways, she acts certain ways. Of course because femininity is a social construction or semiotic construction it gives rise to stereotyping.
  
  So, for instance, when Hillary Clinton wears pants suits rather than suits with skirts, people say she dresses to manly. She defies our social/cultural expectations of what it means to be feminine.
  
  Danica Patrick, an Indy car driver, both meets and defies our social and cultural expectations of what it means to be feminine. She meets them because she has long, shiny hair, she dresses (when not in her driving suit) in "feminine" clothes or provocatively for photo shoots, she's dainty, and wears makeup to play up her features. But she also defies those expectations of what it means to be feminine because she's an Indy car driver.
  
  Those social/cultural expectations are often why people say that Rosie O'Donnell and Ellen DeGeneres, both of whom happen to be lesbians, are not very feminine.  But it's become a socially constructed stereotype to label lesbians as masculine and homosexual men as feminine. 
  
  To carry this further, it is gender signifiers (feminine signifiers to be exact) that transform the man RuPaul Andre Charles into "RuPaul!"
  
  Some linguists argue that terms like "feminine" and "masculine" are actually problematic terms because they tend to signify "natural" roles for men and women, thus anything that doesn't fall into what would be considered "feminine" behavior by a woman would be "unnatural" and anything that doesn't fall into what would be considered "masculine" behavior by a man would also be considered "unnatural".
  
  If you think about Achan's response that "maybe women need meditation more", it's a response that plays into the stereotype that women are more emotional or give into their emotions and react emotionally more often than men do. But that notion itself, that women are the weaker more emotional sex, is a social construction itself.
  
  I'm not sure how this addresses your question of what it means to be transexual. But I do know that many people whom we would label as transexual consider and refer to themselves as "transgendered"
  

• lfbno7 said on Sep 08, 2007....

  Kru, I am 99.6% convinced that you are a boy soul in a girl body, which could well be the opposite of me.
  
  Why do I say that about you?  Because of your own admission about saying that exact thing when you were little.  I think you were simply more in touch with your reality then.  That's what Lisa Williams and other spiritual mediums and afterlife researchers have found.  That little children are much more in touch with the spiritual world than those over the age of 5 or 6 or so.
  
  If there is no gender back home, how can there be sex back home?  I think there is, and since I rarely disagree with myself, that makes me RIGHT.
  
  (okay you can stop laughing at me now)
  
  No on second thought I like to make people laugh.
  

• wakingharmony said on Sep 08, 2007....

  You are such a sweet soul lfbno7.

• anonymous said on Sep 08, 2007....

  Hi, I’m Wolfgang. I’m a 37-year-old gay transsexual man. Kruuai wrote, “So, my first question is... what is the difference between a man trapped in a woman's body and a lesbian?” There’s a fundamental difference between the two. A transsexual has an intersex condition, believed to be caused by hormone fluctuations in the womb during development. One thing that’s certain is that an FTM (female to male) has a brain that is wired for a male hormone balance, and a body that produces a female one. Transsexuals can be of any sexual orientation. Most transmen are straight (attracted to women), but some are gay. In some cases, sexual orientation can change during the course of HRT (hormone replacement therapy). No one knows why, except that HRT induces a second puberty, which causes all manner of changes in the brain. Just as with non-trans lesbians and gays, there are also butch lesbian transwomen and effeminate gay transmen. These traits are completely independent of transsexualism. Kruuai wrote, “My second question hinges on the answer to the first... if transsexuality and homosexuality are not one and the same, then how does one know if they are transsexual?” The same way you know you’re not a transsexual. The feeling of being mismatched to our bodies is there from the earliest memories. It pervades every aspect of our lives from birth. Rather than, “man trapped in a woman’s body,” it’s more like being trapped in a grossly deformed body combined with an identification with masculinity. Botoni wrote, “The pre-screening requirements for gender alteration are very thorough. Prior to actual surgery a candidate must live completely as the gender to which the change is requested.” Many transsexuals, espescially among transmen, choose not to have genital surgery. It’s expensive, limited and carries a risk of permanent nerve damage. Almost all transmen get mastectomy/chest reconstruction. The rules you mention above apply mainly to transwomen, most of whom do get genital surgery, which, for them, has been pretty well perfected. It’s been my observation that they tend to view transition as a linear progression from start to finish: Hormones, hair removal and living as a woman full time, then genital surgery. For us guys, there’s no waiting period for chest surgery and testosterone masculinzes a female body much more thoroughly then estrogen feminizes a male body. We tend to view transition as a process with no definitive end. Also, starting out with female bodies, we were able to get away with dressing as males from childhood if our parents allowed it.

• lfbno7 said on Sep 08, 2007....

  Wolfgang, have you read She's Not There?  I don't remember the author's name but I'm sure you can find it on Amazon.  It is about a transgendered person and it is very interesting.  It isn't a novel.  It's autobiographical.
  

• kruuyai said on Sep 09, 2007....

  Twyla:  lol... I haven't been around. Did I make it to number 1?  (of the Featured Posts page)?
  
  buckrogers:  I'm with you on the first two paragraphs, but where did I say that I had trouble meditating?  Or are you assuming that I had trouble because I'm a woman?  lol  Anyway, I don't think meditation and god have anything to do with each other.  Meditation is about seeing ultimate truth, whatever that is, but believing in gods (unless perhaps meditation has brought us to that point) is just, to me, another illusion that needs to be stripped away in order to get to ultimate truth.
  
  Zayda:  Thank you for your valuable contribution.  I'll have to admit that, until I read your comment, I thought that "transsexual" and "transgender" were used interchangeably.  (as well as sex and gender).  Maybe that begins to explain why some languages designate words as having either masculine, feminine or neuter gender.  Regarding Achan and his remark, I have noticed a lot of cultural biases leaking their way into both his teachings and those of other monks I have known.  I once had a seven hour conversation with a monk in his thirties who had been ordained since he was 15. He'd lived in Canada for a number of years and was back in Thailand, getting ready to disrobe and re-enter the layperson's world.  His part of the conversation was basically a critique of Western culture, and he kept saying, "From a Buddhist perspective...." but what I kept hearing was, "From a Thai perspective..."  I was reminded of all of this yesterday when I looked out the tram window and saw a group of Franciscan monks walking down the street.  I couldn't help noticing how perfectly crisp and starched their robes looked.  And I just know that they don't do that for themselves.  I wouldn't be surprised if they have a group of nuns doing their laundry for them.  Just like in Thailand where the nuns cook for the monks... of course, this is highly important, because the monks have to have their time freed up to do important things like meditate [kruu sticks tongue in cheek remembering how the vast majority of monks in Thailand spent their time dozing off or watching TV].  It's still a man's world in so many ways, and our religious institutions are designed to keep it that way.
  

• kruuyai said on Sep 09, 2007....

  7:  You are so cute!  Yep, I'm always right according to me, too.  lol  Anyway, don't think I haven't been wondering about all this lately.  But why then, when I think of what it would be like to live as a man, am I totally turned off by the idea?  Equally, I'm turned off by the idea of having to live as a woman in the traditional sense.  (raising a family, wearing makeup and high heels, etc.)  I just don't see myself fitting into any boxes.  It's easier to just be me and not worry about the rest.
  
  wolfgang:  I am so glad you dropped by.  Your comment was really enlightening.  So, there's a physiological aspect to this.  It's not just an idea that somehow gets planted into someone's head.  I can understand that a lot more easily than the idea that a soul somehow has gender.  When you use the term transmen and transwomen, are you referring to the body that the person was born with, or are you talking post-operative?  Knowing that would help me to understand your comment more fully.  It's true that women have a lot more social freedom than men  (at least in Western culture) when it comes to dressing.  I wonder why that is?  In Thailand and Burma, it's not unusual to see guys in skirts, and it's not considered feminine. 
  

• kruuyai said on Sep 09, 2007....

  And now, with apologies to anyone who might be offended (but hey.. life is just one big joke... mine as much as anyone's... and we all have to learn to laugh at ourselves or what's the point of being here?)  So, here's the final question in the riddle... if a (straight) man is trapped in a woman's body, does he get turned on when he looks at himself in a mirror naked?

• lfbno7 said on Sep 09, 2007....

  In the book She's Not There, a male college professor in New England began changing himself into a woman.  He took hormones.  He had been a straight woman in a man's body, not the least bit attracted to other men, and happily married to a woman.  But after the hormones kicked in, he lost his sexual desire for women.  He no longer found breasts attractive.  He thought of them as just flaps of skin, pretty much the way Julia Roberts described them when she was wondering out loud why men care about them so much.  And he started to be attracted to men.  So our sexual desire is influenced by chemicals in our bodies.  It was nothing but a chemical injection that changed his sexual desire.
  
  One interesting event in that book is when "he", or "she", I don't know which pronoun to use, was performing as a musician in a band, dressed as a woman but pre-op, and a guy followed "her" to the parking lot after the show to hit on her.  She refused, he got mad, and he wasn't about to let her go.  She was about the same size he was.  She's a big strong guy.  She knocked him down and drove away.  What was the alternative anyway?  He probably would have freaked out to see her anatomy.  Then the guy followed her in his car, not letting her get away.  She only managed to get away from her stalker when she pulled her car into a busy place, a gas station or a convenience store, and got some other people involved, causing the stalker to drive off.
  

• kruuyai said on Sep 09, 2007....

  7:  I think if I had been in his/her place, I would have flashed the guy.  But then again, maybe not, because a guy like that is obviously violent anyway, and would have just beaten me up..... although, maybe I'd be able to beat him up instead.  If a guy takes female hormones, does it weaken his physical strength in any way?  I'm always amazed at how a man who is roughly the same size or even smaller than a woman is usually many times stronger, even without working out.  I got to experience the difference first hand in a self defense class that I took.  It's unbelievable.
  

• kruuyai said on Sep 09, 2007....

  By the way, I'm beginning to believe TT about her gender.  She's so consistent about taking out the garbage... she's just got to be a guy.

• lfbno7 said on Sep 09, 2007....

  Yeah, guys are so much stronger, they can take girls apart, I know.  That's why karate black belt girls are not safe from rape attempts, because the guys can just knock them down and overpower them unless the girls really know what they're doing, and I don't just mean their karate techniques. 
  
  A strong girl can land her best punch or kick, and a guy will just shrug it off and keep coming.  If he lands a good punch or kick, he leaves her on the floor gasping for air.
  
  Girls need groundfighting skills, jiu jitsu, that sort of thing.  They need to know how to choke guys out, how to lock their joints, gouge their eyes, break their fingers, use elbows, knees and head butts.  Then they can leave a big tough grown man on the floor moaning for his mommy.
  
  If a guy takes female hormones it weakens him.  He loses his muscle mass.  Muscles require testoSTEROne.  Steroids.
  

• Wolfgang said on Sep 10, 2007....

  Kruuyai wrote, "When you use the term transmen and transwomen, are you referring to the body that the person was born with, or are you talking post-operative?" Transman=FTM=female to male=born female and transitioned to male Transwoman-MTF=male to female=born male and transitione to female We always use our brain sex/post-transition sex, not our birth sex, when referring to ourselves. It's proper to always refer to a transman using male titles and pronouns and a transwoman using female titles and pronouns, even when talking about the past, before the person transitioned. It may seem awkward at first, but it's actually less confusing than switching back and forth between pronouns, and it's much more respectful. Kruuyai wrote, "If a guy takes female hormones, does it weaken his physical strength in any way?" Yes. Estrogen, (combined with a testosterone blocker until she has her testicles removed), causes a decrease in muscle and connective tissue mass, decrease in red blood cell count (the cells that carry oxygen), redistribution of body fat to the hips, thighs and buttocks, breast growth, softening of skin texture, slight decrease in bone mass, changes in urine consistency and sweat scent, and production of female pheremones. It can't undo basic skeletal structure or height, or the thickening of the vocal cords, growth of facial and body hair, and growth of the adam's apple that occurred during the first puberty. Testosterone, (which doesn't need to be combined with an estrogen blocker), in transmen causes an increase in muscle and connective tissue mass and red blood cell count, redistribution of body fat to the belly, coarsening of skin texture, slight increase in bone mass, changes in urine and sweat, production of male pheremones, thickening of the vocal cords (which deepens the voice), growth of the adam's apple, growth of facial and body hair, male pattern baldness (depending on age and genetics), growth of the clitoris into a small penis (3-8 cm, depending on genetics), and cessation of ovulation and menses. It cannot undo basic skeletal structure, height or breast growth that occured during the first puberty.

• kruuyai said on Sep 10, 2007....

  7:  Yeah, all that, and to be able to keep your wits about you while under attack.  It's usually our brains that save us more than anything else.
  
  wolfgang:  Thank you for clearing up that terminology for me.  Speaking of pronouns, and all the confusion they cause, you should be glad you live (I assume) in an English speaking country.  Here I am in the Czech Republic where the language is infused with gender.  Nouns have gender, adjectives have gender... even some verb forms have gender.  TT is always correcting me on this, but I haven't even started studying the language yet, so I'm lucky if I can even come up with something close to the word I'm looking for, much less worry about putting the right gender on every word.  It's a nightmare.
  
  Wow! So, the clitoris actually grows into a penis.  Amazing.   I really thought they did something surgically (and I wasn't going to ask where they found the donors).  But that makes perfect sense.  So, I guess this is one case where women actually do have it easier than men.
  
  By the way, are you okay with my jokes?  Just curious.
  

• wakingharmony said on Sep 10, 2007....

  Im Fine kruu~ hee hee I really should have got back here sooner (bad english margaret bad...lol) I Love this Post!  In the book Naked Ape it explains how the clitoris transform into the penis.. it almost sounds painful.  How was your 1st day Kruu~ are you going to do a post for us?

• wakingharmony said on Sep 10, 2007....

  Kruuyai I am trying t oshow you that post I wrote "Dear God ...I hope it goes right if it doesn't please feel free to delete...Hope you had a wonderful Day.

  "Dear God,........Am I Still Grounded???
  

    I Know....."What kind of Title is that?!"  Beats me it's what I thought of when I got here.  I have a few new friends that write about life, God, Heaven....All the things you can't really touch phyiscaly.         A statement of "I want to go to Heaven".....really got me thinking.    Did they mean right now...or when they left this Life as we know it.       I believe in God, Jesus, "My Higher Power".....and a purpouse for us to be here in this body...I think we all are to teach, learn, from one another....lessons of many kinds, the main one being "Faith."  We are born with it, and I believe most of us die with it....actually what if you can't Die without it? Think about it....When a lot of people are dying they have a priest Bless them, and Loved ones pray for them and I think everyone must accept in order to be peaceful...I think when people are dying and getting closer to your to your soul, your mind...whatever you want to call it....the part that you are thinking with right now.......No one sees.....only the creator of all!!!!                So when you have finished here......and learned what you were supposed to, taught what you were supposed to.....(and in all this try not to loose the Faith)...then go to "Heaven".....are we no longer "Grounded?" ©margaret (lol..just had to do that)    

• destinydiva said on Sep 10, 2007....

  this really is a fascinating post kru!!!  :-) I keep checking back in :-) xx

• kruuyai said on Sep 11, 2007....

  waking:  Ahhh, growing pains.  My first day went pretty well.  I will post about it, after I get done preparing for my second day.  And I will look for your post when I get a little more time.  It sounds a lot like the kind of thing I like to discuss. 
  
  destiny:  And more to come!
  

• Suddenrain said on Sep 11, 2007....

  I have to wonder if the hormones and steroids injected into our cattle and such has anything to do with this. How do those things affect our own hormones?

• kruuyai said on Sep 13, 2007....

  Sudden:  Another interesting speculation.  I know that girls who eat a lot of hormone laden beef grow huge boobs.  The proof is in the puddin'.  The difference in places like Texas is quite noticeable.  It's got to have some effect.
  

• wakingharmony said on Sep 13, 2007....

  Hmmmm  does Texas cause the big boobs? 

• kruuyai said on Sep 14, 2007....

  waking:  Well, I think that, in general, people in Texas tend to eat a lot of beef (since beef is one of the main products).  And the hormones in the beef are probably what cause the big boobs.  My guess.

• kruuyai said on Sep 14, 2007....

  One more question for anyone in the know (Wolfgang.... are you out there?)  If a woman goes through the process from female to male, and her clitoris develops into a penis, does she grow testicles, too?  Aren't the testicles what produce the testosterone?  If the process is complete, I would think she'd need a continuous supply of testosterone to maintain her manhood.  And what happens to the vagina?  Do some people opt to keep both a penis and a vagina?  Is the 3 to 8 centimeters the "at ease" size or "at attention?"  I'm assuming it can be called to attention, since a clitoris can anyway.  

• Wolfgang said on Sep 17, 2007....

  Kruuyai wrote, “If a woman goes through the process from female to male, and her clitoris develops into a penis, does she grow testicles, too?”
  
  No. During fetal devepment, prior to 8 weeks of age, both male and female fetuses have a pair of ovotestes. At about 8 weeks, the first sexual differentiation occurs and, in the male, the ovotestes begin producing testosterone and descend. In the female, they remain where they are (the default condition) and begin producing estrogen. Once the ovotestes become ovaries, they can’t change into testes. Testosterone just causes them to shut down.
  
  Now, technically, ovaries do produce testosterone, and testes produce estrogen. Both sexes have both of these hormones in their bodies, just in differing amounts. So ovaries produce mostly estrogen, along with small amounts of testosterone, and testes, vice versa. Both are necessary for the health of men and women.
  
  So you might wonder what happens when a transman has his ovaries removed and takes only testosterone. One of the mysteries of these hormones is that the body can change one to the other, so, on the right testosterone dosage, the body aratomizes the excess to estrogen to achieve the proper balance. You can see then what happens to men who abuse “steroids” (Testostone and estrogen are both steroids, as are many other hormoones. The stuff we transguys take is the exact same thing some body builders abuse). They get too much testosterone and their bodies convert the excess to estrogen, throwing them into a partial female puberty.
  
  Kruuyai wrote, “If the process is complete, I would think she'd need a continuous supply of testosterone to maintain her manhood.”
  
  Yes, we have to take testosterone for the rest of our lives. Most of us have our ovaries removed, along with hysterectomy, because there may be a risk of ovarian cancer, uterine fibroids, etc. These parts atrophy with testosterone use. so it’s best to just get them out of there. If a guy stops taking testosterone prior to hysterectomy/oopherectomy, he “detransitions,” which means that he’ll go through female puberty again and may or may not regain his fertility, depending on how long he was on testosterone. In that situation, however, four things would not reverse: body hair growth, clitoral growth, vocal cords an adam’s apple. Those changes are permanent. If he stops taking testosterone after surgery, he won’t detransition, but he’ll lose muscle mass and experience some other changes akin to those of a castrated male. Osteoporosis would be of particular concern.
  
  Kruuyai wrote, “And what happens to the vagina?”
  
  Nothing. Though some of the flesh around the upper labia folds eventually resembles scrotal sack skin.
  
  Kruuyai wrote, “Do some people opt to keep both a penis and a vagina?”
  
  Many do. Some even keep their cervix, because that’s where the natural lube comes from.
  
  Kruuyai wrote, “Is the 3 to 8 centimeters the "at ease" size or "at attention?"”
  
  At ease, but most guys tend to get more width than length when we get hard. It’s also angled downward, rather than standing striaght up, because the foreskin is bound to the top of the vagina. It becomes much more sensitive on testosterone.

• kruuyai said on Sep 18, 2007....

  wolfgang:  Thank you for coming back here and answering my questions.  There's a lot that I wouldn't have understood about TT without your input, and I'm not joking anymore.  This is some serious shit, and TT, I've discovered, has suffered from extreme depression for the last 10 years... I imagine mostly caused by hormonal problems.  His personality has completely changed in the last couple of weeks to the point where he breaks down sobbing uncontrollably.  He's going back to his hometown later this week to get an injection which is part of his regular regimen, I guess.  And this is all without going through any kind of a change, so now, I'm beginning to understand why people would choose to go through a sex change operation.  Those dueling hormones are worse than the worst PMS I could imagine.  And I say that from the perspective of going through menopause and suffering some extreme PMS as a result (you would think it would get better instead of worse).  Anyway, my heart really goes out to TT, because there's apparently nothing he can do.  He says his health is not good enough to go have the operation.  I'm not sure what kind of health problems those are.  I'll be blogging more about the personal/emotional side of this when I have more time.  Thanks so much for your help.  I really appreciate it.

• Wolfgang said on Sep 19, 2007....

  Kruuyai wrote, "And I say that from the perspective of going through menopause and suffering some extreme PMS as a result (you would think it would get better instead of worse)."
  
  You get it. :) You've hit upon an excellent analogy too. I never experienced PMS. The thing just came and went every month with no symptoms. But from the descriptions I've heard of PMS, that was the way I felt all the time. I'll never forget the moments after my first testosterone shot, when a lifetime of anxiety and depression just melted away. Hormones are extremely powerful substances. For me, transition has been a bed of roses compared to the "life" (if one could call it life) I've left behind. *This* is Living.
  
  Kruuyai wrote, "Anyway, my heart really goes out to TT, because there's apparently nothing he can do."
  
  He can't do the hormone treatments? That would be really rough. He might try getting a second opinion. Some doctors recognize that the risk to benefit ratio often weighs heavily in favor of the benefits. I, and most of the guys I know, would've transitioned even if we thought it would shorten our lives by 30 years or more. It's that important. But the truth is, hormone treatment is relatively safe when done under a doctor's supervision, with regular blood tests, and the hormone purchased from a licesed pharmacy, clean needles, good injection technique, etc. There are very few contraindications to this treatment.

• kruuyai said on Sep 20, 2007....

  Wolfgang:  Yeah, I've kind of been wondering about that.  I don't know exactly what health problems TT has, but he was hospitalized for an entire year at the age of 16... and I'm not sure if that was for depression or for some other physical problem.  Is there any actual surgery involved, other than the hysterectomy?  Is the hysterectomy absolutely necessary?  It's so hard for me to talk about this stuff to TT, because the language barrier is pretty huge right now.  

• Wolfgang said on Sep 20, 2007....

  Kruuyai, all sex reassignment surgeries are optional, to a degree. Most guys want (and need) mastectomy/chest reconstruction, both for psychological well-being and to effect a more masculine body shape. Many bind their breasts to flatten their chests, prior to surgery, or while they're saving up the money for it, but that only works if their boobs aren't too large. Binding can create problems, like sweat rashes, and it's pretty uncomfortable.
  
  Hysterectomy is highly recommended within the first 5 years of beginning hormone treatment to avoid fibroids, cancer, etc. I guess it isn't absolutely necessary until problems develop, just advisable. There's a monetary benefit too: Once the ovaries are removed, a guy can cut his testosterone dosage, sometimes in half, because it no longer has to compete with the natural estrogen production. No one knows the long-term effects of testosterone on these organs, but a lot of guys are diagnosed with uterine fibroids or ovarian cysts before having them removed. Some had them before starting treatment though. Statisics are generally lacking for our demographic, but fully a quarter of transmen have polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS) prior to treatment, and in many cases, the guy's mother also had PCOS. But the actual numbers may actually be much higher, because PCOS is often asymptomatic and escapes detection.
  
  There are 3 known cases of transmen with no family history of ovarian cancer developing it. They all died before the age of 50.
  
  There are some genital surgery options: metoidioplasty, urethral lengthening, phalloplasty, to name a few. The costs are out of most guy's league: $40,000 or more. But some guys can't stand having a vagina and want to be able to have sexual intercourse with a woman. Metoidioplasty is a surgery that was developed for hypogonadal men (men with a "micro-penis"). They cut the ligments that hold a portion of the penis inside the body to give it more external length. I'm not sure of the details on the others, but I know that for some, they use a skin graft from the patient's own forearm and for others, they can even use the vaginal canal. There are also testicular implants, which I imagine are not unlike Neuticles. They use the skin of the labial folds for those.
  

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