When trying to understand what Jesus came to teach versus what religion says he came to do it is important to show the power of perception and how it can be used to change a story. The story of Jonah and the whale has been told to every Christian child. It is usually taught that the story is about God(Jehovah) saving Jonah from a whale who had swollowed him. But when one changes the perception a new story appears.Jonah was told by Jehovah to go to a people and deliver the usual "death and destruction if you do not obey me" story. Jonah did something that few, if any people did. He refused to do as he was told and ran away from Jehovah. One must wonder if Jehovah had run out of his prophets because he did not present this job to one of them. Of course Jehovah finds Jonah and commands a "large fish" to swallow him. (Religion created a more colorful story by calling the fish a whale).After Jehovah threatens to kill Jonah if he does not go to this people and deliver the fiery condemnation Jonah has to agree or perish. The important thing here , to me, is that there is a verse in the Bible that says "I lay down my life willingly, none has the power to take it from me". Said by Jesus. Jonah did not have that choice for Jehovah had all of the power and he had to obey or die.It also presents a Jesus who said he came to die and was not killed by others. He proved that there was life after death which Jehovah had always taught was not true. There was only one way to prove it. Die and reappear. And he did so. Jonah delivered Jehovah's speech and sat down on the ground afterward pondering it all and finding no satisfaction in his job being accomplished.
Comments
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SeanRenaud said on Aug 22, 2007....
As usual you are leaving out things. Your interpretation of Jonah is pretty much spot on. The thing about Jesus though, are you forgetting that he begged Jehovah/Yahweh/himself for his life in the Garden the night before he was taken away? When he said nobody could take his life he meant none of the mortals around him. -
shiningstar said on Aug 22, 2007....
Jesus begged no one for his life, ever. As he said no one could take it away from him.The blog is about Jonah and how through the power of perception the story changes from what religion wants people to believe to what it really says. Peace. -
SeanRenaud said on Aug 22, 2007....
Mathew 26:39Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."This verse takes place in the garden just before he is taken away by Judas. He asks that God not to make him go through with this but submits himself to God the Father, a being who is so great that Jesus himself submits to his will. -
muckpar said on Aug 22, 2007....
Billy Graham has a different message about Jonah, I like his better than yours. Please do not take offense, your beliefs and attitudes are yours. It is difficult for me to understand how you can love Jesus and dislike God. I think they are one, but if you don't that is certainly your business. -
shiningstar said on Aug 23, 2007....
SR. I did not say that the Bible did not say this. I said that Jesus did not say it. There is a huge difference. Muckpar I love Jesus and I love God, now Jehovah is another story but even he in all of his terribleness is made by the same God who made it all so I do not nor have I ever said that I hate anyone. Nor will I ever. -
SeanRenaud said on Aug 23, 2007....
Since there is no other document with Jesus in it (other than arguably the Book of Mormon) how do you know what Jesus said vs what the Bible says he said? Where are you getting your information? -
shiningstar said on Aug 23, 2007....
I do not study "documents". I study consciousness. Just as religion claims Jesus said "Father, Father, why hast thou forsaken me" he did not he said "Father , Father , thou hast never forsaken me". When one develops a working hypothesis guidelines develop. Here are two examples whereas these sayings would work if Jesus was speaking to Jehovah for Jehovah tricked the people many times and let them down when they needed him. But the God of all Life does not speak. The God within does. You know that still, small voice that lets you know when you are messing up? It NEVER betrays you. And it never betrayed Jesus.Jesus had the power to heal, to raise the dead, things that Jehovah and his Prophets never did.He was a threat to Jehovah but Jehovah could not take his life no more than Jesus could take the life of Jehovah. Yes, there are other teachers on the planet that I learn from. Just as anyone else can.Peace -
SeanRenaud said on Aug 23, 2007....
So your knowledge of a historical figure comes from the little voice within? Have you solved the Kennedy assassination yet? You must know this is the definition of insane. -
muckpar said on Aug 24, 2007....
Shining: Do you believe in the Trinity? Do you believe Jehova and God are one in the same? -
shiningstar said on Aug 24, 2007....
SR; Why do you put words in my mouth? I did not say that. Muckpar I believe I have covered that many times. Jehovah was created by the same God that created all life. Jehovah claimed to have created all and that is why Jesus told the Jews that their Father(Abraham who followed Jehovah) was a liar and the father if all liars for how much greater lie can one tell then to call themselves god with the big G?---But it matters not where my truth comes from. The post is about the story of Jonah and the changing of perception to allow another side of the story to unfold. Peace. -
SeanRenaud said on Aug 24, 2007....
I do not study "documents". I study consciousness.
I didn't put those words in your mouth, you spoke them typed them rather.
You know that still, small voice
I'd ask you when did Jesus tell the Jews that Abraham was a liar, but I know that the answer is that little voice in your head. You'd be funny if peope weren't taking you seriously but it seems that people are. Though few if any of them ever comment, maybe they're just laughing I don't know.
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shiningstar said on Aug 25, 2007....
Again, I say, it is most amazing to me how you perceive what I say and manage to turn it all around till it fits into your brain. Some people desire to learn. To me it appears that you just ride around the net shooting at every body and that gives you the satrisfaction that you desire/crave. Come back when perhaps you might be in the learning modality instead of the shooting one. -
desertsienna2 said on Aug 25, 2007....
Unitarians do not accept the Holy Trinity. We accept that Jesus was a prophet, a spiritual messenger, political reformer and teacher. This does not lessen the value of his message and actions. We view Christianity as corrupted by the Western Church after the destruction of the early Gnostic traditions. To be a monotheist, one can only believe in one figurehead, not three. That is a corruption of Unitarian values. One cannot be a trinitarian and a monotheist. One is a polytheist if one accepts the Holy Trinity. We believe in universal salvation and a place for all people of all religions in heaven. We are also against biblical literalism.
from wikipedia:
In Christian theology, universal reconciliation or universal salvation, is the doctrine or belief that all will eventually find reconciliation and salvation with God. It is believed the crucifixion of Jesus Christ provides atonement for all sins. This concept is often called universalism, but is distinct from Unitarian Universalism. Universal reconciliation is intimately related with the question of Hell and has been vigorously debated throughout history. Some universalists posit that hell is an allegory in daily life [1] and all souls will return to God who created them; while some universalists posit that souls will endure a limited period of punishment before inheriting life everlasting, similar to the state of purgatory. There are varius beliefs concerning the process or state of salvation, but all conclude ultimately in reconciliation and salvation with all.
Historically, most Christian denominations reject universalism. Evangelicals and related Christian denominations have published extensively against universalism [2] in recent decades, defending the doctrine of an eternal Hell. In Roman Catholicism, universalism is heterodox but is not incompatible with Church teaching.[1]
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desertsienna2 said on Aug 25, 2007....
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/barclay1.html -
shiningstar said on Aug 25, 2007....
The discussion here is about one Bible story, the story of Jonah. I think that most people are more than familar with the article that you posted and its information. To me, it is just defending what you believe instead of posting anything about the story of Jonah which this particular post is about. It is intended to make people think instead of quote. Kinda like exercizing ones brain. You know? Peace -
SeanRenaud said on Aug 25, 2007....
ROFL. You dare attack others for straying from the subject after I've bitchslapped you on the subject and you talk about your knowledge coming from your insanity. I'd laugh if it weren't so pathetic, you know what? What the hell, LOL! -
desertsienna2 said on Aug 25, 2007....
Unitarians do not accept the Holy Trinity. We accept that Jesus was a prophet, a spiritual messenger, political reformer and teacher. This does not lessen the value of his message and actions. We view Christianity as corrupted by the Western Church after the destruction of the early Gnostic traditions. To be a monotheist, one can only believe in one figurehead, not three. That is a corruption of Unitarian values. One cannot be a trinitarian and a monotheist. One is a polytheist if one accepts the Holy Trinity. We believe in universal salvation and a place for all people of all religions in heaven. We are also against biblical literalism.
from wikipedia:
In Christian theology, universal reconciliation or universal salvation, is the doctrine or belief that all will eventually find reconciliation and salvation with God. It is believed the crucifixion of Jesus Christ provides atonement for all sins. This concept is often called universalism, but is distinct from Unitarian Universalism. Universal reconciliation is intimately related with the question of Hell and has been vigorously debated throughout history. Some universalists posit that hell is an allegory in daily life [1] and all souls will return to God who created them; while some universalists posit that souls will endure a limited period of punishment before inheriting life everlasting, similar to the state of purgatory. There are varius beliefs concerning the process or state of salvation, but all conclude ultimately in reconciliation and salvation with all.
Historically, most Christian denominations reject universalism. Evangelicals and related Christian denominations have published extensively against universalism [2] in recent decades, defending the doctrine of an eternal Hell. In Roman Catholicism, universalism is heterodox but is not incompatible with Church teaching.[1]
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SeanRenaud said on Aug 25, 2007....
From what texts do you derive your beliefs? How can you accept part of Jesus's message but not all of it? Also how can you be against biblical literalism? -
desertsienna2 said on Aug 26, 2007....
How can anyone after watching Christiane Amanpour's "God's Warriors" be in favour of religious fundamentalism, as if I want Christianity to take part in the fanatical actions of others and as if we are no different? That is just wrong. It devalues the faith, to take it without real purpose and for monetary propagation and political maneuvering. Unitarians became refugees and were persecuted, including being burnt to death, under canonical laws. I oppose all religious law being implemented through government. Scrap p.c. rhetoric and religious right maneuvering. We are now quickly marrying ourselves to Islamic fundamentalism like Europe. We are less than ten years away. Who has to pay a price? It's not just us but Jews, Baha'is, other Christians and moderate Muslims who pay the price. It's wrong and the same thing as what happened to Unitarians. Period. So take your biblical literalism and shove it. The problem is not the Bible or Jesus but us. -
SeanRenaud said on Aug 26, 2007....
We are more than ten years away from it Desert. Europe likely has another ten years left. -
shiningstar said on Aug 26, 2007....
Pray tell let us go back to the story of Jonah. I have blocked SR for two reasons. One his language. Two. He always takes people away from the subject at hand. I would like to use any time that I have to post to present different answers to the same old questions that we have heard all of our lives. It is not only a method of questioning but a chance to learn from each other.I do not desire to change anyones mind but do desire to open it. I am not here to defend every little word that I say nor do I expect others to have to defend their selves. Let us all be civil, courteous, respectful and pretend that we are facing each other sitting at a long conference table. We are here to share. We are here to learn from each other not to demean and abuse each other. -
muckpar said on Aug 27, 2007....
Shining: I am curious can you provide me your source of Jesus calling Abraham a liar? -
shiningstar said on Aug 28, 2007....
It is John-Chapter 8. My Bible is the King James version 1990 Giant Print Reference Bible. Verse 44. My book is Jesus or Jehovah available at Amazon.com It has 181 references viritually never heard of before and therefor not known by most people. -
muckpar said on Aug 30, 2007....
Shining: I just read your source. In my opinion Jesus is calling the Devil a liar, not Abraham. -
shiningstar said on Sep 01, 2007....
I am absolutely certain that your opinion is different than mine. It is the way that religion has taught you to read it just as I was taught. Peace -
shiningstar said on Sep 07, 2007....
It is the same with the story of Jonah. A whale swallowed a guy and Jehovah saved him. That is the way the story has been and is taught. Nothing about the reason Jonah was on the sea and why he was running from Jehovah. No the big fish became a colorful whale(made a better story) and Jehovah became the loving , good guy who "saved" Jonah. Just another example of the power of perception. -
shiningstar said on Sep 19, 2007....
There are so many examples of teachings that have been taught by religions that do not make sense or enlighten anyone that come alive when one changes their perception. For instance separating the old from the new. To me it means separating the religious teachings of Jehovah from the teachings of Jesus. Being on a sure foundation that does not change with the sand or storm. Again to me means to not be on a religious foundation that changes from socities, governments or social consciousness but to remain firm because knowing that you are god and that god is love changes not and allows you to love all of your brothers and sister for they are just like you.Peace
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