• mobil said on Aug 20, 2007....

  Why such hard questions Picker? Ok I think the chicken came before the egg, cause how do you get an egg without a chicken? So, for your question, I'm gonna chose hmmmmm, Something can't come from nothing. Right? Did I get it right?

• wombat said on Aug 20, 2007....

  Oh, pickerspock:  This is funny because yesterday, we "went for a ride."  All of a sudden, my hubby said, "Did you see that?"  We all said what?     He said, I just looked up that road, and a chicken just crossed the road.   ( We were out looking for deer, turkey, moose, and whatnot)   The only thing I could say was..................................."Why?"       Everybody cracked up.
   
   
  Personally,     I think that something had to come first.  There could never be just nothing.  So, I guess, that leaves God to come first.  He didn't come from an egg.  (Or else that would have to have been an egg, and who made the egg?)  Simply a simple answer to a simple question.  I have meditated and tried to imagine that there was "nothing."   Same as meditatiing and trying to imagine what is "out there."  There has to be a limit to "out there."  Or not?   This is why they keep asking, "Which came first, the chicken or the egg....."

• wombat said on Aug 20, 2007....

  mobil:  If I got it right, then you did, too!

• secretlife said on Aug 20, 2007....

  you can't have a chicken without an egg.  impossible.  lol.
  circles circles.....life is a big circle.
   
  i believe life evolved.
  over time.
  and that one day there was an egg, and then a chicken.
   
   
   

• wombat said on Aug 20, 2007....

  Who made the egg?  The chicken, and who made the chicken....you are right. We don't know....wow.
  Will stay posted.....

• mobil said on Aug 20, 2007....

  SL, you wouldn't know what to do with a chicken if you had it by the next and a pot of hot water next to it haha..........the chicken was first !

• wombat said on Aug 20, 2007....

  Reserving further comment.....

• secretlife said on Aug 20, 2007....

  hey mobil, how'd the chicken get here?  egg baby....egg.
   

• beyondtheveil said on Aug 21, 2007....

  pickers- All chickens have had eggs in them since the beginning of chickens, and all chicken eggs since the beginning have required a chicken. Chickens and eggs can't be separated until the chicken lays the egg to make another chicken and that chicken has eggs.
  
  Existence and nonexistence require each other or you can't have either word, just like the chicken and the egg.
  

• rightwingwizard said on Aug 21, 2007....

  Ok boys and girls, which is it?
   
   
  I think, therefore I am!
   
  OR
   
  I am, therefore I think!
   
   
   
  Be careful now!
   
  rww

• Mamie said on Aug 21, 2007....

  ok, I am gonna go get a cup of coffee!

• skald said on Aug 21, 2007....

  I was only a little child when I thought that something could not come from nothing. 

• pickersplock said on Aug 21, 2007....

  So you're agreed?  Something has always existed?

• rightwingwizard said on Aug 21, 2007....

  pickers:  Of course.  Even the most ardent supporters of the 'Big Bang" or Multiple Bang' theories have to admit that there was somsething there before the bang.  They cannot however explain what caused the bang to begin with to get this thing going. 
   
  Hmmm....God maybe? 
   
  Or some undefinable entity or force beyond the comprehension of even the most brilliant theoretical physicist who simply cannot acknowledge the existence of God because it isn't logical.
   
  rww

• silverwhisper said on Aug 21, 2007....

  personally, i believe that despite what physics now knows, something can indeed come from nothing.
  
  ed

• mobil said on Aug 21, 2007....

  Is darkness something? Because in the beginning there was only darkness. Then big bang and there was light, is light something?
   
  Anyway, ya gotta have a chicken, I've never seen a egg lay a chicken !
   
  I'd rather get laid in the light though, with just a little darkness.

• the_infernal_optimist said on Aug 21, 2007....

  You know, I like what a certain fictional character said about one incarnation of this question:
  
  "A circle has no beginning."
  
  I don't have any existential issues with that, and therefore I believe that something has always existed - by the same token, "nothing" is subjective enough in most cases to say that yes, something can come from nothing as well.
  
  ~Infernal
  

• secretlife said on Aug 21, 2007....

  Scientists say eggs--handy miniature incubators of life, nutrients already packed inside--evolved more than 1 billion years ago, in the oceans of Earth. When land animals evolved about 250 million years ago, their eggs had a tough covering to retain moisture on dry land. Egg-layers like amphibians, reptiles, and insects flourished. The first "land eggs" pre-dated chickens by about 249,992,000 years.

  So "the egg" may be one answer to the old riddle, but here's another, if a little longer: The chicken came after the bird, the bird came after the dinosaur, the dinosaur came after the egg. And the egg came long after the first single-celled bacteria, the prokaryotes, evolved in the oceans, some 3.5 billion years ago.

  you need more, go here

  life evolved.

  were the single celled bacterias here from the begining?  i dunno.

  personally i think some kind of 'event' happened and caused the 'spark' of life to begin........

   

• mobil said on Aug 21, 2007....

  None of this is known for sure SL, these so called egg experts are always changing their eggheads.
   
  This is what I know, Chickens lay eggs, ok, I like my eggs OVER EASY !
   
  Another thing; What would you do without wickedopidea? Lies, it's all lies in there! Get a good set of encylopidias.
   
  Lastly. I agree some kind of event, sparked by God........see, we agree on something !!!

• DifficultSoul said on Aug 21, 2007....

  Something can come from nothing.....
  Surely it can......
  We cannot see oxygen....but it brings us life....
  We cannot see the wind, but it brings us a cool breeze....
  I do not believe that the meaning of the word NOTHING exists........
  It is always something.

• uniquely-ironic said on Aug 21, 2007....

  I subscribe to the theory that everything comes from something.  That being said, I also believe that the past only influences the present and the future, it doesn't dictate it.

• ZsuzsiO said on Aug 21, 2007....

  I know I am not living a religious life, especially not by the standards of my own heritage, but I do believe in God.
  For some reason I am totally fine with the theory of evolution, and I am glad SL wrote that comment, so I didn't have to. I don't think point of views change that often, or that significently when it comes to this. It all started from a big bang or some sort, that provided the perfect situation for the already exosting gas and other elements to fuse in a way that edventually created THE EGG - the first form of life. The shape, size or nature of that egg has nothing to do with what we all call "egg" today, although, if you all think about it, all liveing creatures have "eggs" and in most forms we do call them that. However, I think that the question is NOT AT ALL what was first, but HOW LIFE - every and any form - first life on Earth or out of space or whatever - emerged into that egg?
   
  It is a well known fact that the most famous scientists were deeply religious  due to the fact that this question was always above of human brain capacity. We just cannot understand this one, therefore we must assume that there is a higher power above us who did create us.  Some even think that if he created us, he must owe us too. Well that is a whole nother question......
   
  I think therefore I am
  I feel therefore I am
  I experience therefore I am
   
  it's all the same. As long as you are being stimulated - your brain, your senses - you are living your life, so you are alive. therefore you are.
   
  I am, therefore I think
   
  Well, I know a hell lot of people who would love to think this about themselves, yet i know for a fact that all they do is a sad excuse for thinking.
   
  good post. Loved it

• gingersoul said on Aug 21, 2007....

  Picker......pass me the Tylenol, would ya?

  Mobil and Secret......why you two don't fix some good chicken broth for all of us....we are going to debate 'til the end of time...LOL...and a Primordial Broth has already been made, thanks....

  For me ..... everything contains its own opposite. Egg/chicken rule!......

• Battycat said on Aug 21, 2007....

  Will we ever know? There is so much we don't know, there must have been something before the big bang, but where did the something come from?
   
  Ok, my head hurts now - too deep for me at the moment.

• Antimatter said on Aug 21, 2007....

  False dilemma. We have no concept of time "before" the big bang, because spacetime itself unfolded with the universe.

• lfbno7 said on Aug 21, 2007....

  i'm thinking along similar lines to antimatter.  time is one of the coordinates to place us.  so is height, length, width.  four dimensions.  for example, right now you are at a certain number of degrees east or west of greenwich, england.  you are a certain number of degrees north or south of the equator.  you are a certain number of feet above or below sea level.  and you are at a certain time in your local time zone.  that's where you are.  three spatial points and one time point.  i suppose you could take it to another dimension and say where the earth is in relation to the sun.  so then you have five dimensions instead of just four.  i think there are infinite dimensions, though the physicists lately say there are only 10 or 11.  i don't understand that.  how can it not be infinite?  you can always go way smaller, you can always go way bigger, so there should be no end to the dimensions that can place where you are.  anyway ......
  
  if you are going to go back to where there was no time, it seems that there would be no space either.  everything would have to be zeroed out, seems to me.
  
  i don't think you can say that something always existed.  i think you can say that something always existed here for as long as time existed here.
  
  i think that something can come from nothing.  it just depends where and when.
  
  think of it this way.  this universe didn't exist.  something else did.  call it god.  god willed this universe into existence.  out of nothing.  god is someone who thinks.  mind over matter.  boom, here's a new universe.
  
  if you believe in thoughts rather than atoms, isn't something coming from nothing all the time?  love, anger, an idea.  the nature of reality is that something is always coming from nothing.  that's called change.  a new emotion just came, where it wasn't before.
  
  as for atoms, can they come from nothing?  yeah, they're little pieces of shit anyway.  god can make them out of nothing, out of no-atom, by just wanting them to be there.  matter is nothing.  i think it is only thoughts that are something.
  

• Antimatter said on Aug 21, 2007....

  The position of the earth in relation to the sun doesn't add a new dimension in your example, lfbno7. The position of the sun can be described using your first coordinate system (degrees north or south of the equator, degrees east or west of Greenwich, and altitude above sea level), though it isn't very useful to do so. It's simply a matter of clearly defining your frame of reference.

  The additional 7 dimensions of space (plus the three we perceive and one of time, 11 total) is a requirement of M-theory. The extra dimensions loop around on themselves, and they're so tiny that we cannot perceive them. Physicists theorize that strings wrap around holes in the spacetime geometry (imagine the surface of a donut as a two dimensional space with strings looping around the hole in the center of the donut), and some suggest that's why only three dimensions of space unfolded with the big bang: the tension of the strings prevent the other 7 dimensions from unfolding.

• ZsuzsiO said on Aug 21, 2007....

  lfbno7 - i like that thought about the thoughts.

  antimatter - i have no idea what you've just said, I understood non of it at all, therefore I am going to do the only thing us, ignorant people do, and call you a smartass. LOL I mean "WHAT?!"

• faulty_perfection said on Aug 21, 2007....

  Antimatter - Do what now? ( I never went past biology )
   
  Anyway - I believe that an always-present God created the universe and everything in it.

• travelr712 said on Aug 21, 2007....

  in this reality, we humans have a defined beginning and a defined end. we tend to measure everything by those standards. we place priorities on things with mortality. plants, animals, oceans, the like. i look at a tree. i see a bud, then a leaf. the leaf came from a limb, the limb from a trunk, et al. we can experience something coming from something else, so it seems natural, truthful that something came from something else.
  
  however, we see no examples of something coming from nothing, so we have only a concept of what that would be like, and no way to test that theory.
  
  now, remove this question from the context of a time line, and put it in a context where things have no beginning and no end. they simply either exist or do not exist. if something exists, then it has always existed and always will. if something does not exist, it never has and never will. if something exists, and then ceases to exist, then at the point of non existence, it never existed and never will. it's not a question of a thing having a beginning and an end, it's a question of reality changing at the point of existence. so yes, something could have never existed, and then at the point of existence, have always existed, seeming to come from nothing. when you begin to dig deeply into the nature of time and space, you begin to see that in reality, they are the illusions.

• rupert7 said on Aug 21, 2007....

  YES!! either there is a creator or else everything evolved from a sterile vacuum!! It has to be one or the other, realistically there is no alternative. There is no room for arguement is there? Either SOMETHING always exisisted or everything (or something) evolved from that sterile vacuum!!

• lfbno7 said on Aug 22, 2007....

  anti, i wouldn't get too excited about the current dogma in physics, the stuff you just wrote about in your last post.  i recently finished reading lisa randall's warped passages, and i've read several other physics books about string theory.  the tiny hidden dimensions and all that crap.  it's all just theory, none of it substantiated in the least.  50 years from now they'll be laughing at it.  it's nice to think we actually do have a reliable authority, but we don't.  they don't have a clue what's really going on, and they're just making up fantasies and trying to test them.  lisa randall is like a comic book story writer imagining things, and then trying to find out if somehow the things she imagined could actually be real, but not having the wherewithal to test it.  at least they're trying, but they don't know a friggin thing.

• Antimatter said on Aug 22, 2007....

  Oh, I'm well aware of that, lfbno7. String theory is not yet striking me as useful, because the mathematics required to make any useful predictions are (currently) insurmountably complex. As I understand it, the results are also heavily dependent on the exact geometry of those extra 7 dimensions, but we (currently) have no way of determining their shape!

  That being said, the central premise of all string theories has been very successful at resolving the greatest scientific contradiction of our age, the fundamental incompatibility between the two most important theories in physics, general relativity and quantum mechanics. The new idea in string theory is strikingly simple: subatomic particles are not one-dimensional point particles but instead have spacial extent. Even if we're significantly off the ball on the (currently untestable) details, we're on the right track.

• Daniel68 said on Aug 24, 2007....

  See Hawking: A Brief History of Time. Or any of his books really.
  
  Nothing existed before the big bang. And this is hard to get your head around, but SPACE didn't exist. The concept of distance simply had no meaning.
  
  
  

• rightwingwizard said on Aug 24, 2007....

  And if you buy that I have this nice little bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in.
   
  Just because a man says sometheing, his briliance notwithstanding, it doesn't make it so.
   
  rww

• gingersoul said on Aug 24, 2007....

  Did you read the latest discovery in astronomy?

  It was on Yahoo News yesterday. They discovered, in short, a humongous black hole made of.... NOTHING. Yes, absolutely nothing ..no radiation, no lights, no pulsars  nothing.
  Its just a gigantic, scary hole in the universe made of nothing.

  Now, i dont know you but i am going to check this thing up close.

  Read here the whole story 

   

• gingersoul said on Aug 24, 2007....

  Oh, and Ralph has passed away....   

  Big Bang Theory Father Died.

• pickersplock said on Aug 24, 2007....

  Cool, ginger!

• gingersoul said on Aug 24, 2007....

  I am cool, Picker.....LOL...

• skymir said on Aug 27, 2007....

  It is clearly impossible for humans to comprehend true and absolute nothing. With the way our minds seem to work true nothing amounts to a logical contradiction. So, to say that there was once “nothing” is to say that the universe contains a logical contradiction.

  TF: there must have always been something.

  Right?

   10 philosophy bucks to the one who can point out the logical failure(s) in that statement!!!

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