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Pros:

- medical research that can save peoples lives or help them lead better lives - The supporters of animal testing argue that if animal testing is eliminated, that many of the medications and procedures that we currently use today wouldn't exist and the development of future treatments would be extremely limited.

- Animal testing not only benefits humans but also helps other animals, for example the heartworm medication that was devised from research on animals has assisted many dogs.
- other testing techniques are not advanced enough
- minimise injury and maximise benefits
- the advantages outweight the costs.
- Moreover, many argue that the lives of animals may be worthy of some respect, but the value we give on their lives does not count as much as the value we give to human life.

- As far as animal testing is concerned we are confronted with the moral dilemma of a choice between the welfare of humans or the welfare of animals.

- The Research Defense Society – RDS, a British organization instituted to defend animal testing, maintain that most of the complaints made against animal testing are not found to be correct and that animal testing generates valuable information about how new drugs react inside a living body.

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Arguments against testing

- morality -
The supporters of animal rights say that animals have the right to live their own life peacefully; and we are not allowed to meddle with them just because we can.

- necessity/validity -
Deaths through research are considered unnecessary and are morally not different from murder. Animal dissection is regarded as misleading.

- usefullness -
Arguments against animal testing may generate at least two different arguments. Some believe that the goals of this type of testing are not significant. The blinding of rabbits to have a new kind of mascara is yet to be justified.

Others argue that the reaction of an animal to a drug is quite different than that of a human being. Animals are involved in testing the products such as cleaning products that assist humans less than medicines or surgery.

The fact that the results attained from experiments on animal testing do not accurately portray their influence on humans is considered to be a one of the serious argument against the animal testing. Humans are quite different from other animals, so the consequences of animal testing may not applicable to humans. They argue that they way one species reacts to a given drug or chemical in a particular way does not necessarily entail other species will react in the same way.

Critics continue to argue that animal kept in unnatural conditions, or animals in pain or distress, are not giving rise to accurate or consistent results anyway. Stringent regulations have not eliminated researchers from abusing animals even though such instances are rare.

 
 
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What is YOUR stance on animal testing?


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Comments

  • SeanRenaud said on Aug 14, 2007....
    The way I see it we have two choices, and only two.  Test things on animals and test them on human beings. If you can show me how we would consistantly get enough volunteers I'd be willing to debate it.  Until then test on animals and if you don't agree with me you are fucking dumb.
  • silverwhisper said on Aug 14, 2007....
    honestly, i would vastly prefer that they do the testing on animals before they test on humans, too.

    ed
  • kendall_michael said on Oct 08, 2007....
    Dear sean renaud if you come back to this page I would like to give you another idea. We could replace animal testing, and volunteers if we did testing on stupid people. People like yourself are born everyday with mental problems. Instead of litting you bring down the averge IQ we would get something useful out of you like a new oven cleaner. Side note: There are several alternative to animal testing that could be used. Try doing a little research before you write on the internet. Second side note: It would be you that is "fucking dumb" ass hole. From mike kendall
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 08, 2007....
    ROFL.
  • loefff said on Dec 16, 2007....
    i think that animal testing is nessery and we should support it. would you choose you familt over your pet?
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 26, 2007....
    Wow.  I Hitler would be proud of you Houston.  When I take over the world you are most certainly going to be in charge of inteligence gathering and entertainment.
  • SeanRenaud said on Apr 16, 2008....
    Then volunteer to be used as a test subject.  Otherwise shut up.  This is an ignorant conversation, we know that animal testing has led to many advances in science and medicine and until computers have advanced a lot more than they are now it will be the ONLY safe way to test new things.
  • SeanRenaud said on May 20, 2008....
    Wow a Petard.  I don't even know where to start.
     
    We can start with the fact that your site is so obviously propaganda that it's not worth it.  But look I can make a a silly meaningless list to!
     
    1.  Virtually every medical advancement of the 20th century has involved animals in some way.
     
    2. Many of our other scientific advances have also involved animal testing.  Dogs and Chimps in space.  Dolly the Sheep.
     
    3.  What alternative methods are there for the sake of argument out of 450 sure you tell me at least one
  • SeanRenaud said on May 21, 2008....

    One more time Petard, what is one of these alternative methods?

    I wouldn't condone involuntary human testing.  Humans aren't the only living organism, well duh. 

    As much as possible the suffering of animals should be kept to a minimum but it's not always going to be possible.

  • silverwhisper said on May 22, 2008....
    some coward commenting anonymously is telling someone else to get a life?! irony, it seems, is best served with a sense of humor.

    ed
  • SeanRenaud said on May 27, 2008....
    Computers can't replicat a human body, maybe someday we haven't gotten to that point just yet.  When we do we'll suddenly see an explosion in new medicines because a computer could run simulations of really rediculous shit. 
     
    Joe: He Bob?  What do you think would happen if we mixed aspirin, extacy and Bacardi 151?
     
    Bob:  I dunno.  Let's pop it through the compy, not like it's gonna hurt anything
     
    Joe: Did that just cure Alziemers?
     
    Bob:  I think so.  It's no weirder than finding out that AIDS could be cured with Small Pox and Bee Venom.
     
    It's not scientifically inaccurate, it's less than perfect there is a vast difference. 
  • commerciallolita said on Sep 25, 2008....
    It's an unfortunate neccessity.
  • Peace_and_L0ve said on Oct 06, 2008....
    Animal testing is completly cruel. Our anotomy is different, therefore tests are discarded as inconclusive. It's virtually pointless. Not only is it pointless, it's agrivating and inhumane. Although many of the tests done are to rats, and lets be honest, they are RATS, they are still living and deserve the same peace and equality we do. Who are we to play God and decide who gets to die and who doesn't?
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 06, 2008....
    They aren't discared as inconclusive you twit.  IT's not pointless if it was we wouldn't be doing it and we are Men thats who we are to pretend to be something that doesn't exist.
  • shariskittles said on Nov 18, 2008....
    Most scientists have come to the conclusion that animal testing is totally inadequate for protecting humans from harmful products. And yes there are pros and cons for animal testing. Medical testing could most certainly be considered necessary. However, cosmetic and other types are not. We don't need to test oven cleaners and mascara on animals to get new products to live our lives.
  • SeanRenaud said on Nov 18, 2008....

    You can at least argue that cosmetics simply aren't necessary period.  As for those cleaners. . .uh what happens when you get some on you?  Oh wait we don't know until we test it.  I suppose if you're going to say that people have no right to file suit against the companies that make various cleaners if they say. . .die, then you're right.

     

  • AmyHannah said on Dec 10, 2008....
    This message is meant for SeanRenaud!!! I actually agree with you and think that you are the one making sense and that you are really sexy!!
  • Jolt said on Jan 06, 2009....
    Animal testing starts with minor animals such as rats. If the test fails/doesnt work right they drop the test and product right there. If the test works they try it on a more sofisticated animal like a dog or such. If the test/product contuins to work on through the more sofiticated animals then they try it on animals that are more like us such a monkeys. If the test is sucessful then they try it on humans and if it works pn (by which I mean not killing them) MOST humans then they release the product. For the humans that it doesnt work as well on they have risks and "Ask your doc if your health enough or if they should take it." Its a process to make living for humans better. Even though you have to take into account all the animals that are "killed' by this method. But I still beleve that it is the best option we have right now.
  • hjkl; said on Jan 18, 2009....
    i think we are abusing our free will by testing cosmeticis on animal but i agree on testing medicine on animal as overall it saves a human live and may not kill the animal
  • Poe said on Feb 10, 2009....
    I am for animal testing, except when it comes to cosmetics. I have a friend who recently became a vegetarian. I said we should debate on the subject, and wat she says is that -humans are not meat eaters, that we grew up believing we r.... -That doctors and scientists make up diseases for money. -if there was a cure for cancer, "they" would have found it. -that human beings are no different than Hitler, becuz the way we treat animals. -that if we eat animals we might as well eat each other. -that ALL tests should be tested on us -that all animals r equal to human beings. on it went on and on... the funny thing is, is that she has been a vegetarian for a month now.. now she looks down on those who eat meat. My older brother works in a lab with other researchers findin ways to cure diabetes. He's favorite animals r mice, hamsters, etc, And he does kill them, for not because he gets joy out of it, or because he thinks its funny. Its for the better of humans. What I dont get about animal protesters.. is that they're so passionate about this topic, when there are more an important things in this world to be focusing on. There are people getting raped, children being molested, racism, homelessness, street drugs, natural disasters that hurt families, etc. BUt they rather stick up for animals? I dont get it...
  • Munchkin93 said on Feb 11, 2009....
    Im for animal testing when it comes to new drugs that could save human and other animals lives BUT 100% against it when it comes to make up, i meen seriously why should animals have to die just so some self conscious people and beauty freaks can put chemicals and who knows what on their face & body because they think it makes them look better but to me it looks like they wear animals pain and death on their body with pride ..................  i really dont get it
  • soccergirl0 said on Feb 11, 2009....
    who the hell do you think you are sean renaud! you do realize that people have their own opinions...MEANING THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWER. go back to fucking preschool dipshit and learn that before you comment.
  • radiohead13 said on Feb 11, 2009....
    Yeah! I totally agree with you soccergirl0. I bet you love to piss people off! And, I think that definition of opinion is apt. Way to be! You have this person's support!
  • SeanRenaud said on Feb 11, 2009....
    There is a right and wrong answer to everything.  The idea that there isn't is absolutely absurd.  but go on tell me how rape isn't wrong because some guys think it's fun.  Otherwise SUCK A COCK IDIOTS.
  • soccergirl0 said on Feb 12, 2009....
    and when have i said anything about rape?? this is an OPINION QUESTION i never said that EVERYTHING had a right and wrong answer! omfg like learn to read idiot. if you think that animal testing is okay then you are fucking mental. if you dont believe me than look at this and see if it changes your mind: http://www.stopanimaltests.com/animalTesting101.asp if you think that that is not cruel than you can go die in a hole you sick, mother fucking asshole. how mature..."SUCK A COCK IDIOTS." i have more points in favour of my conclusion than you do for yours, but if it makes you feel better about yourself...rofl get over yourself already i think that all animals lives have more value than yours.
  • soccergirl0 said on Feb 12, 2009....
    btw: do something better with your life than pissing ppl off on blogs.
     
  • Random104 said on Feb 21, 2009....
    Animal activists stick up for animals because they can't stick up for themselves. And Poe the people that stick up for animals are in a sense sticking up for humans as well because humans are mammals and when it comes down to it we are ALL animals. Soccergirl10 definitely has the right idea by saying that testing on animals is cruel. and as for these mice and rats that everyone seems to be so adamant about bringing up...think like the government, they don't count. The dead mice aren't even tallied in the end of the year death count (which is wrong because they are living creatures and should at least have the respect of being COUNTED) Not only is animal testing wrong but it is insane the way the treat the animals being tested on....walk into any lab and I you'll probably find a cage fit for one small dog overstuffed with about 3 chimpanzees. The burns and bruises created by tests are half the time not even treated and any dead or dying animal is discarded as if it were TRASH. We say these animals do so much for us....then why do we treat them like garbage?? As for the oven cleaners get some SOAP AND WATER and do it the old fashioned way. The problem with our world today is that people are SOOOOO lazy!!! Now I have never had the opportunity to visit a place where animals that have been tested on go after testing, but a very close friend of mine has! In her journey she was introduced to 2 badly treated chimpanzees and later sponsored them. She was also told a dreadful story of a BABY chimp who's eyes were sewn shut at birth to test animal blindness!!!! IF THIS IS NOT CRUEL THAN WHAT IS?? Animal testing has been successful in the past yes....but at what cost??
  • soccergirl0 said on Feb 23, 2009....
    omfg...that was amazing..it almost made me cry :) ;)
  • soccergirl0 said on Feb 23, 2009....

  • SeanRenaud said on Feb 24, 2009....
    I hope both you idiots volunteer to be experimented on.
  • soccergirl0 said on Feb 25, 2009....
    wow sorry bud..but thats already been used on you!! too bad you dont listen to reason! and i would volunteer you to be the first one tested on!! you are probably one of those ppl who lives in their parents basement and has nothing better to do with their life than to oppose the reality. GET A REALITY CHECK BEFORE YOU DECIDE TO COMMENT ON BLOGS FOR WHICH YOU WILL BE OUTNUMBERED! now go get over yourself and get a girlfriend...that will do you some good...unless you're gay...which is highly possible.
  • soccergirl0 said on Feb 25, 2009....

  • SeanRenaud said on Feb 25, 2009....
    LOL.  As long as your volunteering and we can use you up until we kill you then I support your opposition.  You are incredible and I thank you for your sacrifice.
  • Greeneyedfairie said on Feb 25, 2009....
    Wow, don't you guys have something better to do than bashing each other on the web? Look, get out and go fight for your causes instead. There's plenty you can do besides playing idiots on the web. Me personaly I support a little from each side. testing on animals is a must since we should test on humans. But I don't agree with silly tests for make up products or other pointless forms of sacrifice. I'm gonna be writing a paper soon on this subjuct and feel that it should have a little bit of both of the arguments.
  • ballen2556789 said on Feb 27, 2009....

    I understand what you are all trying to say animal testing is wrong but if you guys think that it is so wrong then why are you guys just on your computers arguing with each other why dont you guys go out and do something about it??? There are plenty of websites on the internet that have scientists who are looking for volounteers for their tests because they too believe that animal testing is wrong. So for all of you guys who are just saying stuff why don't you guys actually go out and do something about it!!

     
  • ballen2556789 said on Feb 27, 2009....

    I understand what you are all trying to say animal testing is wrong but if you guys think that it is so wrong then why are you guys just on your computers arguing with each other why dont you guys go out and do something about it??? There are plenty of websites on the internet that have scientists who are looking for volounteers for their tests because they too believe that animal testing is wrong. So for all of you guys who are just saying stuff why don't you guys actually go out and do something about it!!

     
  • ballen2556789 said on Feb 27, 2009....
    I understand what you are all trying to say animal testing is wrong but if you guys think that it is so wrong then why are you guys just on your computers arguing with each other why dont you guys go out and do something about it??? There are plenty of websites on the internet that have scientists who are looking for volounteers for their tests because they too believe that animal testing is wrong. So for all of you guys who are just saying stuff why don't you guys actually go out and do something about it!!
  • animal_lover95 said on Mar 03, 2009....
    Animal testing is very inscure of someone to test on innocennt animals that did nothing to them they havemay did someone in the past, but still remember that animals have a brain the size of a peanut so most of the time we can't blame the aniamls for their actions its it their fault that they have small brains it's not God's fault either because it's not God's fault that animals were meant to have small brains. So scientist should test on their self before they test on animals have you ever thought about how te animals feel just because they have small minds doesn't mean that they don't have feelings. And as for the pros and cons of animal testing thats ridiculous pros are just as bad as doing it period let me just say this if you can't test it on yourself then don't test it on anything. Beauty comes from deep within anyway so what's the point of animal testing. For the person who said that people who stick up for animals we have agood reason for that so thank you very much just because we might not have alot of money does't mean that we can't care for animals. And I'm thinking that you are one of those people who test on animals. So of course you would say that i'm sticking up for animals because I actullay care about them as much as I care about humans all humans are not good but you can't control what they become you have to encourage them to become a better person. I bet you have animals and you don't even take care of them, yeah they have small brains but they probaly want to run away I would to run away from you. You non-believer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • soccergirl0 said on Mar 04, 2009....
    care to get a new diss lmfao cause thats getting kind of old bitch oh and btw i already do things to support my side. im not a loser who spend all my time on the computer.
  • poopy said on Mar 05, 2009....
    poop
  • soccergirl0 said on Mar 05, 2009....
    wow you are real mature...
  • icecreamisgood said on Mar 06, 2009....
    Sean Renaud you are freaking stupid!! Testing on humans is a good way to get rid of cocky IDIOTS like you!! Go Volunteer yourself!! If you think that animal testing is ok...then go test on your cat or something...leave the animlas people care about alone!!
  • seanreanud-is-an-asshole-and-I-HATE-HIM! said on Mar 09, 2009....
    the name says it all..
  • one_wired_kitty said on Mar 09, 2009....
    From my perspective ... animal testing is a necessary evil until we can find a different avenue.
  • worldisdoomed said on Mar 09, 2009....
    hello?! do some research..there are plenty of other methods other than animal testing! example testing on cells. lets at least get a brain pleasee people
  • SeanRenaud said on Mar 09, 2009....
    None of which work nearly as well as animal testing.  If they did we would use them but they don't.  I love that I'm worthy of so many alts though.
  • tttttttttttttttttt said on Mar 11, 2009....
    Testing on cells isnt accurate because cells dont have circulatory systems, livers, hearts, etc.
  • SeanRenaud said on Mar 11, 2009....

    Testing on cells barely works for anything when you're not talking about on television. Animal testing is still the ONLY plausible way t go.

  • soccergirl0 said on Mar 12, 2009....
    umm..im pretty sure we have cells in our body...last time i checked anyway. and the only thing you are worthy of is a punch in the face.
  • soccergirl0 said on Mar 12, 2009....
    umm..im pretty sure we have cells in our body...last time i checked anyway. and the only thing you are worthy of is a punch in the face.
  • soccergirl0 said on Mar 12, 2009....
    umm..im pretty sure we have cells in our body...last time i checked anyway. and the only thing you are worthy of is a punch in the face.
  • SeanRenaud said on Mar 12, 2009....
    You clearly don't understand the subject matter.  We do have cells in our body but you need more than just a few.  YUou need an entire body if you want to test certain things.
  • Mikaa said on Mar 13, 2009....
    I think that we have to rely on animal testing... Think about it. Would you test on a monkey or one of your friends or family? I love animals and all. BUT! Humans are more valuable than animals.. Plain and simple. Yes its sad to see an animal hurt. But its benifiting us. Build a bridge and get over it. Animal testing will continue until computers get advanced. End of story..
  • Wowzers said on Mar 13, 2009....
    Clearly you don't understand that noone likes you!!Animal testing is WRONG!!! If there is something that WE think is not safe for humans then plain and simple DON'T USE IT!! Wow... what is our world coming to?? It's sad to think that people like you are running our country and there is nothing the rest of us can do about it!!
  • SeanRenaud said on Mar 13, 2009....
    Because you're clearly an idiot.  We can't find out if its safe without testing it.  It's not something WE think is not safe, we don't do things to animals that we think are unsafe.  We do thing that we aren't sure bout and need to find out.  There is a reason wh people like me run this country and the world. You're way doesn't work.  We'd all starve to death if peoplelike you were in charge.
  • soccergirl0 said on Mar 14, 2009....
    its better than having other countries/ people bombing & threatening our country because they hate people like you. aka the majority!
  • SeanRenaud said on Mar 14, 2009....

    I suppose.  I mean we could be in the countries that bomb us.  I mean you're a girl, you know in the countries that bomb us it would be legal for me to slap the taste out of your mouth because you aren't showing me the proper respect right?

    Besides those are unrelated subjects.  You might as well say something like obviously Video Games cause violence, were are most of them made?  Japan.  Who bombed Pearl Harbor?  It's stupid and has no real connection from one thing to the next.  They aren't bombing us because we test on animals.  Every nation that does significant medical research tests on animals because there is no other viable way at this point.  One day (hopefully) computers will get to that point and when they do we'll find out all sorts of awesome shit because instead of only testing "good" ideas we'll just test everything.  I mean penicillian was a horrible idea.  Using mold to cure disease?  It was a horrible idea and one discovered entirely by getting lucky.  Who knows, Maybe a gallon of Mountain Dew chased by one beer and the venom of a Sea Cucumber can cure AIDS.  IT sounts funny, but so does magic mold and that's EXACTLY what penicillian is.

     

  • soccergirl0 said on Mar 16, 2009....
    You don't deserve any respect whatsoever!! You are an egotistical idiot who thinks the answer to everything is violence and disrespect!! These animals deserve to be treated just like any human should be treated. There is no reason for them to be treated unequal because truth is most of them are smarter than you!!!
  • SeanRenaud said on Mar 16, 2009....
    LOL.  I love you you dumb fucking cunt.  Don't worry people like me won't ever let worthless wastes of space like you take over or have any real power.  We wont' let our children starve to death.
  • mysticalwhisper17 said on Mar 19, 2009....
    if you guys are so concerned about animal right maybe you should try to save humanity first. i mean you look out on the streets and there are people who have no food or homes and think about it they would eat a cat or dog or what ever faster than you guys could save them. how bout we focus on humanity and saving ourselves(the people who have souls and might actually have a chance to go to heaven or hell) first before we focus on saving the animals
  • The_Jack-A-Lopp said on Mar 19, 2009....
    i only have one question, this is for soccergirl. why should i treat an animal like its a human? what exactly has this animal done to deserve recognition of its intelligence? i'm sorry, but after watching my dog run headfirst into a fence because i threw an invisible stick i just can't give animals that kind of credit.
  • soccergirl0 said on Mar 19, 2009....
    Well...if you honestly can't think of one thing an animal has done to deserve recognition of it's intelligence I can give you an example. Animals (well a chimpanzee named Hammy to be exact) were the first creatures in space. Although sending Hammy into space and landing on the moon was "one small step for man and one giant leap for mankind", I would like you to think of it this way. Would you like to be sent into a place noone had ever been, not knowing if you would survive, in the dark and alone?? I don't think so. Animals show proof of intelligence everyday. Dolphins that jump through hoops, seals that will shake your hand and chimps that can use sign language. If that is not proof enough of animal intelligence...then you have somehow managed to corrupt yourself into thinking that animals are somehow less significant than humans. Truth is they aren't and many humans are alive to day because of animals. Most animals don't bother us...why do we bother them?? Isn't it enough to already be destroying their habitat?? We don't have to use them as sacrifices to our superficial needs aswell.
  • SeanRenaud said on Mar 19, 2009....
    Wait, the fact that we strapped a chimp into a suit and sent it into space proves that it's inteligent? 
  • soccergirl0 said on Mar 20, 2009....
    If you knew anything about that case, you would know that we didn't just strap him in a suit and send him into space! he had to set off tests by pullig strings and without his capability to do so we would have never know if it was safe for humans to go to space because although humans and chimps are similar in stature they have different immune systems!!
  • The_Jack-A-Lopp said on Mar 20, 2009....
    ok, so we taught animals how to do stuff. dolphins are exceptions, those things are crazy smart, but anything else, not so much. what do you think would happen if i walked up to a monkey in the wild and offered it my hand? the little shit would bite me. and then his big daddy monkey would chase me down and crush me into pulp. everything animals can do are things we've taught them to do. sure, dogs can smell cancer. dogs can smell alot of stuff. they don't know what it is, they just know that when they smell it and wag their tales they get a biscuit. thats not brainpower, thats positive reinforcement. using the same method you could teach a baby to smile when it smelled poop.
  • SeanRenaud said on Mar 20, 2009....

    Dogs and chimps have shown surprising levels of inteligence,  They have even shown personality traits.  That doesn't meake animal testing any less a necessity. 

    Lets go another route and value animal life.  We still need to discover more advanced techniques for keeping our dogs alive long because do value them.  Hense more experiments.  What's more is that even nature, or God whichever you chose to believe in values (most) life below human life.  This is evidenced by both their gestation periods and numbers.  There is a reason why dogs and cats are pregnant for shorter periods of time and give birth to larger amounts of young.  Sadly they aren't expected to survive.

    But if you've got a better more effective way of discovering new techniques for curing cancer I'm all ears.

  • I-hate-baboons said on Mar 21, 2009....
    Dear Sean Renaud: I hope that one day when you die you will be reincarnated into a baboon (which would make sense) and then everyone decides to run all sorts of animal testing on you. :) sincerely me
  • SeanRenaud said on Mar 21, 2009....

    LoL.  If they cure cancer with it then while it'll suck to be me I'll be reincarnated as a millionare after that since I will obviously have fulfilled my duty and been good in that life.  Or maybe I'll come back back as a bull in India.  That wouldn't suck.

  • kelly12 said on Mar 23, 2009....
    i agree with soccergirl0. hey seanrenaud what about the dogs that help the blind? are the dumb too? no they are very intelligent...unlike you.
  • bemusedx said on Mar 23, 2009....
    Animals show high levels of intelligence in everyday life, jackaloop. For instance, dogs save people in fires and help lead the blind. However, intelligence should have nothing to do with whether animal testing is continued. That's like saying disabled people don't really count because of what they lack. Animals provide a constant source of friendship and love for many people. People who are against animal testing see it as sending their best friend off to the gulags. -Tasha
  • compx said on Mar 23, 2009....
    Well, Everyone has thier own opinion. Im very Much against Animal testing. Agree With me, Disagree I don't care. Opinions are like Assholes, everybodys Got one. (.Y.)
  • The_Jack-A-Lopp said on Mar 23, 2009....
    ok i see where your coming from, i personally don't see animals as being very intelligent. i know some of them are, and there are those stories about animals rescuing people, but in my opinion those are the anomalies not the norm. and opinions aside, seanrenaud makes a very good point about other options. we have none. it's either test things on animals or test things on ourselves. i mean i guess we could stop testing entirely, but then we'd be stuck in a scientific dark age until we found a new alternative. just ask yourself if you'd rather see your dog or your sister sitting in that lab.
  • kisser51 said on Mar 23, 2009....
    i'm for animal testing i mean just because they show intelligence isn't a good enough reason to stop testing on animals, i mean the venus fly trap is called an intelligent plant just because its learned to adapt but if we though of everything that way than every micro-organism that has evolved should be named albert einstein! and like jack-a-lopp said dogs only seem like their intelligant becase we have trained them after months to years of hard work to act that way and they have connected food with doing certian things,

  • soccergirl0 said on Mar 23, 2009....
    Sure...animal testing has helped scientific advancement, but do we really need to be testing makeup and unnecessary things on animals?? If any of you believe in extra terrestrials or a higher power....think of it this way. What if they came to earth and because we are less intelligent than them (although still intelligent) they started testing out stuff on us. How would we feel then?? We would feel the exact same way humans make animals feel nowadays....HOPELESS!!
  • SeanRenaud said on Mar 23, 2009....

    If you don't want them testing make up, fine I can get that.  Do like so many other people do and refuse to buy from companies that test on animals.   Aside from make up what is really unnecessary?  

     

  • soccergirl0 said on Mar 24, 2009....
    and clearly you are more intelligent than an animal the Jack-A-Lopp considering you can't even spell tail right.
  • soccergirl0 said on Mar 24, 2009....
    There is so much unnecessary testing going on!! Why do we need new oven cleaners and soap?? We don't...water works just fine when you add a little elbow grease! The problem is people are too lazy to put in the extra effort!! And whos fault is that! OURS it is not the animals that are to blame..so why put them on death row for our superficial needs?? We don't need half the stuff that is being tested!! Since when is overn cleaner a necessity??
  • SeanRenaud said on Mar 24, 2009....
    Since we had ovens.
  • The_Jack-A-Lopp said on Mar 25, 2009....
    um, forgive me if i'm mistaken, but i don't think i used the word tail. ever. in fact, after a careful review of all of my posts i have become one hundred percent certain that neither the word 'tail' or any word similar to that one appears anywhere in anything that i've written. i didn't use buttocks or hindquarters or anything like that either. or any words that look like tail. are you sure you don't mean lab? or monkey? or possibly smell? i'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume that you're not actually a complete imbecile you're just high on the marijuana you're trying to get legalized. and you know what, if extra terrestrials or something thats smart enough to make us seem likes animals comes along and starts doing tests on us, more power to them. fortunately for us, anything that intelligent has probably found an alternative way of testing things by now.
  • The_Jack-A-Lopp said on Mar 25, 2009....
    oh, and while we're making shallow jabs about grammar i might as well point out that oven doesn't have an r. :)
  • Believerin said on Mar 25, 2009....
    Animal lives are actually very highly valued by MOST companies that partake in animal testing. There are very strict laws and regulations as to the treatment of animals being tested, and the vast majority of animals are kept as comfortable as the average household pet. Products being tested on animals go through a plethora of tests for safety before animals are subjected to them. Contrary to what seems to be popular belief, regulations prohibit testers from just mixing up a random assortment of chemicals and treating animals with them. In fact, if there is not strong evidence that the product will not harm living organisms, and also that it will prove to be beneficial to society, laws prohibit testing on animals to occur. That being said, there are always exceptions to the rule. I am not refuting that are numerous examples of horrific negligence by those who test on animals. However, it is unfair to say that all animal testing is inhumane and cruel based on the evidence of laxity of treatment by the minority of testers. Arguing that animal testing is inhumane based on these examples of abuse is similar to arguing that allowing children to live with parents is inhumane based on the terrible abuses a minority of children are subjected to by their parents. The fact of the matter is, if there was any alternative to animal testing that was as economically and scientifically efficient, yet less detrimental to organisms, we would be using it. However, there isn’t. For the time being, animals will continue to be tested on as ethically and morally as possible. If we stopped animal testing in the United States, technological and medical advances would halt, we would lose our already slipping influence on global society, and, ultimately, life as we know if would be transformed.
  • aebf said on Apr 06, 2009....
    Great post, believerin. I don't think anyone wants to see or hear of animals suffering in any way, and I'm sure if we knew there was any real viable alternative the scientific community would jump on it in a second. I'm a vegetarian and an animal lover but I also take medications everyday, which keep me alive; and I think I must owe my life to animal testing. I am a supporter of rights for great apes. But I have ultimately come to believe that the life (or lives) of humans must be more important than those of animals; and that this is a necessary evil. I think that even if you are religious, you will probably agree with that.
  • ~Danny-Boy~ said on Apr 09, 2009....
    Oh my gosh...I can feel my IQ dropping just reading the argument between sean and soccer girl. Instead of arguing like two year-olds with potty mouths why don't yaw just agree to disagree? Because seriously, this argument has been going on since 07..that doesn't speak much of your maturity. And since I'm speaking my mind I might as well go ahead and say this: I've seen the pictures on youtube of animal testing, and yes, it's pitiful and it breaks my heart to see animals suffer (because yes, some of them are severelly mistreated) but a human life is more important than an animals. And although I wish there was a way we could test products in a different way, theres not, and until we advance scientifcally, animal testing will remain.
  • SeanRenaud said on Apr 09, 2009....
    Agreeing to disagree is for cowards. And if we let it drop the subject may not be brought up again
  • LisaAnhLe said on Apr 20, 2009....
    I agree and understand all the things we humans have and know now all due to animal testing but see it as yourself being tested with all these chemicals that either put you through great irritation or even death. Im sure that no human being wants to be a test subject that is used for soemone elses personal needs so why should these innocent animals of nature go through all the test just for our needs? We humans are inteligent beings we created and discovered so many things WITHOUT the use of animal testing. Are you saying that we MUST test these animals just to create new medicine and everything else? Rather the animal than you, right? Well im sure the animals think rather humans than them because we are using them for OUR medications, and home use. Why dont we be appreciative of them and just find a new way to create medicines, etc . WITHOUT the use of animal testing? Im not saying that us humans should be the test subjects if we no longer use animals but we can always use the newly advanced technology we have today. I mean today we can have our babies come from a test tube, WITHOUT harming animals, so why continue to let these innocent animals go through all the test while we make use of what they suffered for, our own use?
  • SeanRenaud said on Apr 20, 2009....

    Because it doesn't work that way. Rest assured the very second that it does that will be the only way we test anything.  And thousands if not millions of new cures will happen overnight because of it.  Right now before we test something on an animal we have a pretty good hypothesis of what will happen.  We just need to be sure.  Once we get to a point where we can run these things through computers and get 100% accurate answers we're going to start randomly testing stupid shit cus we can.

    We'll find out that the cure (or a cure) for cancer is thirty days of drinking only Diet Dr. Pepper and eating pepparoni pizza cooked with olive oil.  We would never test that today but when all it is popping some information into a computer and seeing what happens when all these chemicals mix together we'll get real smart real quick.

  • ~*get_summ*~ said on Apr 21, 2009....
    animal testing is good but only for the thinggs we need no makkeup or cleaning supplies. i mean if we did acctually come from evolution than we've made it without makke-up && the cleaning supplies. wouldn't you thinkk we could do that again? except just a tinge more civilized. you can disagree with me. its not like im gonna care..... ;p
  • therepublican912 said on Apr 23, 2009....
    It is a common misconception that all animals used in testing are inflicted with pain, treated cruelly, and are exposed to horrific living conditions. The majority of animal testing is simply to study the effects of a mild drug on an animal or test brain activity without harming the animals in any way. In fact, only 6% of animals used in testing actually experience pain. 61% of animals used suffer no pain and 31% have pain relieved with anesthesia. And since chimpanzees share about 99.4% of genes with humans and lab rats share 99%, it is obvious that humans, the dominant race, utilize their resources to elevate their survival rate. Furthermore, since animals, especially lab rats, have short life spans, it allows scientists to observe the effects of the drugs throughout their whole life or even across multiple generations. The prohibition of animal testing would paralyze modern scientific advancements including life-saving drugs and medications. Dr. Robert Gallo, co-discoverer of the HIV virus stated “With animals, we may have a cure for AIDS in 10 years. Without animals, we will never cure AIDS in our lifetime." World-renown physicians and scientists obviously approve of the use of domesticated animals for the convenience of our future generations. Animals used in testing are forced to live in horrible living conditions is just a common fallacy. In order for a lab to start animal testing, a researcher has to undergo 'ethical' approval, in which he proves to a team of professionals that the research performed with animals, is absolutely 'vital’ and the usage of animals is necessary. Also, the scientists have to agree to follow a certain set of laws that prevent unnecessary suffering of animals, dirty facilities, and other immoral practices. I concede that sometimes, scientists fail to abide by these laws and execute tests on animals that are completely unjustified. However; the prohibition of animal testing will force it into an illegal, “underground,” practice, which will most likely lead to higher fatality rates, worse living conditions, and the increased mistreating of lab animals. An example case of failure to use animal testing was with the sedative, thalidomide. It was introduced in 1956 and within a few years of its launch, women worldwide had begun taking it to help combat the nausea associated with pregnancy. Four years after its release, approximately 10,000 children in Africa and Europe were born with severe malformations. In 1961, several physicians discovered that women patients that took thalidomide often had children with birth defects. Shortly, the results were confirmed and thalidomide was removed from the market. Coincidently, thalidomide had not been safety tested on pregnant animals, therefore thousands of women worldwide had their children born with defects. Had animal tests been performed on thalidomide, it would have prevented the launch of the product and prevented the deformation of newborn babies worldwide. There are many instances in which the usage of animal testing helped create medicines and drugs that revolutionized the medical industry and saved thousands, even millions of lives. The “miracle drug,” Penicillin was first tested on mice in 1940 before being released and used to treat dying soldiers. It saved an estimated 100 million lives and was vital for the victory of the Allies in D-Day Normandy during World War II. According to TIME magazine, "His penicillin will save more lives than war can spend." Another example of the use of animals to perform medical breakthroughs was the treatment for diabetes. Frederick George Banting and Charles Best were searching for a cure for diabetes mellitus in 1921 and although they were unsuccessful, they discovered that insulin treated some forms of diabetes mellitus. Their lifesaving breakthrough wouldn’t have been discovered without animal testing. Even now, the population of people in the United States with diabetes is 23.6 million people, about 7.6 percent of the United States population and growing. Virtually every medical achievement in the past century has depended directly or indirectly on research on animals such as the first medicines for tuberculosis, blood transfusion, the meningitis vaccine, kidney transplants, asthma inhalers, the vaccine for polio, implants for Parkinson’s disease, and even one of the most successful treatments of breast cancer, tamoxifen. I concede that sometimes animal testing is not always used for honorable medical achievements, such as cosmetic testing; however cosmetic sales have been up 3.7% since the year, 2000. Meaning they are creating an increasing trend that will be difficult to stop. The prevention of animal testing in cosmetics will just lead to the cosmetic industry releasing their products without testing for toxicity, which is obviously not only immoral, but also extremely dangerous.
  • therepublican911 said on Apr 23, 2009....
    It is a common misconception that all animals used in testing are inflicted with pain, treated cruelly, and are exposed to horrific living conditions. The majority of animal testing is simply to study the effects of a mild drug on an animal or test brain activity without harming the animals in any way. In fact, only 6% of animals used in testing actually experience pain. 61% of animals used suffer no pain and 31% have pain relieved with anesthesia. And since chimpanzees share about 99.4% of genes with humans and lab rats share 99%, it is obvious that humans, the dominant race, utilize their resources to elevate their survival rate. Furthermore, since animals, especially lab rats, have short life spans, it allows scientists to observe the effects of the drugs throughout their whole life or even across multiple generations. The prohibition of animal testing would paralyze modern scientific advancements including life-saving drugs and medications. Dr. Robert Gallo, co-discoverer of the HIV virus stated “With animals, we may have a cure for AIDS in 10 years. Without animals, we will never cure AIDS in our lifetime." World-renown physicians and scientists obviously approve of the use of domesticated animals for the convenience of our future generations.

    Animals used in testing are forced to live in horrible living conditions is just a common fallacy. In order for a lab to start animal testing, a researcher has to undergo 'ethical' approval, in which he proves to a team of professionals that the research performed with animals, is absolutely 'vital’ and the usage of animals is necessary. Also, the scientists have to agree to follow a certain set of laws that prevent unnecessary suffering of animals, dirty facilities, and other immoral practices. I concede that sometimes, scientists fail to abide by these laws and execute tests on animals that are completely unjustified. However; the prohibition of animal testing will force it into an illegal, “underground,” practice, which will most likely lead to higher fatality rates, worse living conditions, and the increased mistreating of lab animals.

    An example case of failure to use animal testing was with the sedative, thalidomide. It was introduced in 1956 and within a few years of its launch, women worldwide had begun taking it to help combat the nausea associated with pregnancy. Four years after its release, approximately 10,000 children in Africa and Europe were born with severe malformations. In 1961, several physicians discovered that women patients that took thalidomide often had children with birth defects. Shortly, the results were confirmed and thalidomide was removed from the market. Coincidently, thalidomide had not been safety tested on pregnant animals, therefore thousands of women worldwide had their children born with defects. Had animal tests been performed on thalidomide, it would have prevented the launch of the product and prevented the deformation of newborn babies worldwide.

    There are many instances in which the usage of animal testing helped create medicines and drugs that revolutionized the medical industry and saved thousands, even millions of lives. The “miracle drug,” Penicillin was first tested on mice in 1940 before being released and used to treat dying soldiers. It saved an estimated 100 million lives and was vital for the victory of the Allies in D-Day Normandy during World War II. According to TIME magazine, "His penicillin will save more lives than war can spend." Another example of the use of animals to perform medical breakthroughs was the treatment for diabetes. Frederick George Banting and Charles Best were searching for a cure for diabetes mellitus in 1921 and although they were unsuccessful, they discovered that insulin treated some forms of diabetes mellitus. Their lifesaving breakthrough wouldn’t have been discovered without animal testing. Even now, the population of people in the United States with diabetes is 23.6 million people, about 7.6 percent of the United States population and growing. Virtually every medical achievement in the past century has depended directly or indirectly on research on animals such as the first medicines for tuberculosis, blood transfusion, the meningitis vaccine, kidney transplants, asthma inhalers, the vaccine for polio, implants for Parkinson’s disease, and even one of the most successful treatments of breast cancer, tamoxifen.

    I concede that sometimes animal testing is not always used for honorable medical achievements, such as cosmetic testing; however cosmetic sales have been up 3.7% since the year, 2000. Meaning they are creating an increasing trend that will be difficult to stop. The prevention of animal testing in cosmetics will just lead to the cosmetic industry releasing their products without testing for toxicity, which is obviously not only immoral, but also extremely dangerous.


    (If you wish to prove me wrong, send me an email)
    hansungyoon@yahoo.com
  • soccergirl0 said on Apr 30, 2009....
    Maybe you better get you eyes checked and read over it again Jack-o-lopp!! Agreeing to diagree would mean giving up on our beliefs, which according to the charter of rights and frreedoms we are entitled to have!! Of course I know oven does not have an "R", but it a logical spelling mistake because the r is next to the e on the key board! Although your spelling mistake was completely unintelligent because you spelt the word tail (appropraite spelling) as tale (as in an old story)
  • GigglesXD said on May 07, 2009....
    I agree with therepublican911.
  • bored... said on May 19, 2009....
    your a dick.... why should people volunter... seeing thatthe animals dont get a life...
  • soccergirl0 said on May 20, 2009....
    Calm down buddy!! We don't need a 3 page essay here!! Have you never learned to sum up your thoughts??
  • caitlinmichellee said on May 30, 2009....
    animal testing is morally unacceptable animal systems arent the same as ours making these tests unreliable and dangerous animal cruelty is a result of testing and we have cloned human skin and have cell-based tissue models which calls for faster and more accurate tests. :) now i hope you see it my way. :) and not those selfish assholes who do the experiments
  • SeanRenaud said on May 30, 2009....
    Cloned tissue can't be used for most experiments.  You need an entire organism not just skin.  You'd have to clown an entire person.  Animal testing is still THE ONLY viable test we have.  The moment it isn't we'll see a medical revolution.
  • cheeka7777 said on May 31, 2009....
    i love animals and sometimes more then people actually !! i think a lot of inmates that are serving multiple life sentences would probably offer themselves as guinea pigs if there was some benefits for their sacrifice..
    perhaps a favorite recreational drugs being supplied to them when possible or cash for their families ,, or cash for their victims as a form of atonement ,, anyhow i know we need to find cures for a lot of diseases but i have seen horrific videos of animals being tortured in the name of science ,, i am positive that there must be a better way then to use animals who certainly did not chose to volunteer their services !!
  • col.braddock said on Jun 08, 2009....
    Animals who are abused/ tortured and mistreated make up a small fraction of animals getting tested for medications. FIGHT THE POWER SEAN DONT LET THESE r-Tard HIPPIES THINK ITS WRONG
  • babooshka063 said on Jun 09, 2009....
    Hey therepublican911, would u mind sharing where u found that info at? i've done a lot of research on animal testing and i can"t say i've found anything similair to what u say. it did actaully change my thought a little knowing animals don't get hurt but then again i thought of my dog and i'd never want her hurt or any animal. so i can look into this too? i totally agree with u soccergirl0. i would pay anything to see u beat the shit out of sean cus he's a d bag. sean ur a pig, maybe u should do some research before u open ur mouth about shit u don't know anything about. wtf happened to u? did ur parents beat the shit out of u with the stupid stick? i've never seen anyone to be so damn ignorant. i can't believe u'd say something about soccergirl being a woman.u r truely human trash. it's like ur not even human cus the shit u say. thank god we have sane pple on this earth to put pple like u in a padded room. cynthia
  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 09, 2009....

    LoL.  It's people like me that dragged the filth like you screaming out of their caves and into the world.  It's because we "tortured" dogs and monkeys that we were able master space.  It sucks we have doctors who are now performing surgery continents away. 

    It's because we tortured animals that we have countless vaccines and cures.

    It's because we tortured animals that we know how to perform organ transplants that save lives.

    Its fine if youre against animal testing.  Just remember that when your loved one dies of something that we might have cured if we'd bothered to try.

  • therepublican911 said on Jun 15, 2009....
    Hey Babooshka063, I found my information at various sources online (not wikipedia) and on books, and I can assure you that all the statistics and data I stated are true. Also, about your statement: i thought of my dog and i'd never want her hurt or any animal It is ILLEGAL to test on pets, why would scientists? It would be very costly. They test on animals specifically bred by the thousands for testing. Thanks, Alan
  • Vegesaurus said on Jul 01, 2009....
    I don't agree with animal testing What gives us the right to treat animals in that way? We think we're superior to animals, so we use them for our own benefit, but who's the ones that has given us the label of superior?... Us! We say we're superior but we're the ones that are ruining the world and yet we still continue to abuse animals and torture them for our own selfish needs. Besides, why should an animal die for a human?
  • SeanRenaud said on Jul 01, 2009....
    LoL.
  • elliebabezzzz said on Jul 02, 2009....
    Hahahaha @SeanRenaud he can't think of anything for a comeback so just uses internet speak :') How amusing.
  • EmaLee said on Jul 02, 2009....

    some people should really look up information before they post. it's super annoying. i mean, really? are you expecting to sound intelligent when you just curse and bad mouth someone.<br>

    first of all, i'd like to state that i HAVE researched this issue, and that i have written SEVERAL papers about it also.<br> 

    second, this is MY opinion, but if you ever decide to agree with me...then that's fine with me.<br>

    third, if i offend you even the slightest, Sean R. then i'm 'sorry'<br>

    ** read from the beginning to the end, if you're going to comment / compliment / critisize me. **<br>

    there are many videos out there in the world about animal abuse. all of the videos, which i have seen, show horrific photographs of what it's like in the research center. there is even a website which shows you a virtual map of a research center. and one person who commented before me had said that he / she has a friend that has been in one of those research centers, and that she had seen pictures of a baboon that had its eyes sealed shut for an experiment. i have also seen that picture awhile back. and i can tell you, it looks really painful. it looked as if it were infected. the experiment wasn't even necessary. in fact, most of the tests that are conducted are not even needed. the scientists still continue to test them. and there as another person whom commented and said that if an experiment does not work, the scientists drop it. that is not always true. many of the researchers also abuse the animals. many animals get treated like dirt every day. another person said in their comment that there is usually a small wire cage that fits dogs on the smaller side, but which contains three baboons. THAT is not humane. you have to admit that. say, if animals suddenly grew more intelligent than human beings, and did the same things to us humans, would you still say nothing and let it continue? you would protest. it's simple. but, right at this moment...we continue to abuse and test unneeded products on the denfenseless animals. anybody who says that this is not unfair is basically considerd heartless in REGULAR society. i would even go as far as comparing you to the many dictators of the world, past and present. like for example, hiltler. people testing products on animals and abusing them, are like hitler. it is basically the same concept. hitler was MURDERING people completely inhumanely. it is the exact same thing. if you try and argue with that and say that when hitler was MURDERING people, he had no need to. actually, he did. he wanted a 'perfect' world. he was being SELFISH, as we human beings are being today towards animals. humans today also want the perfect world. no diseases. perfection. cleaniness. EVERYTHING. face it, humans want EVERYTHING. and yet, here some of us are going about how it's only 'JUST' a few research centers who actually mistreat the animals. not true. many investigators that many people do not know about have secretly gathered information undercover inside the reasearch center. there are many records and evidences that the animals being tested on are abused daily. there are many unneeded tests going on. metal being inserted for no reason except wanting to see them in pain. any of you posting on this site, have any of you heard their SCREAMS of PAIN. i really dont think so. I HAVE. it's really quite painful to listen to. it was in a video on the PETA website. i have no idea how ANYBODY would be able to stand working in that research center. it hurt me to the core listening to them in pain. it was awfully close to the pain i feel when my friends / family are in pain. it just simply HURTS you. the people who say that testing on animals is benefitting our society. is it really? think about it. use logic. out of the many times they experiement the same experiment, how many times do you think it will take to succeed? and if they dont succeed at first, how many other times will they try the experiment again? how many animals would they be willing to go through? i can assure you that the number is prettyy high. also, as someone had said, who're we to put ourselves in charge?? just because we happened to be more fortunate to evolve enough that we're the most 'intelligent' ones. but what i really think is that we're really not the most 'intelligent' ones. we're destroying our planet. our HOME. everybody else's HOME. it's really quite sad and disappointing since we consider ourselves the superior ones. ANIMALS take better care of the earth than we ever have, which i'm sure is a DISGRACE since animals are supposedly 'beneath' us. if you really think about it, and use our BRAINS...really use them...then we're just like animals. we evolved from an animal. we're basically animals. animals show intelligence everyday...just like we're SUPPOSED to be doing. as someone said, dolphins are learning tricks, canines are saving us SELFISH humans from death...risking their very lives (and who put them in this deadly position again? oh, right. US.), monkeys using sign language in an attempt to communicate with us humans (they learn it faster than mot of us), etc. there's lots more. we're doing SELFISH deed after SELFISH deed, and yet...who are the ones who STILL give us unconditionla love and utter trust. these animals. the ones who we keep torturing / abusing / MURDERING etc. many KIDS know all this better than you 'ADULTS' do. and yes, i AM a KID. and truth be told, in my eyes MOST of you all do not own one ONCE of maturity. i'm sorry if i offend anyone. but this is MY OPINION.<br> 

    oh yeh, and there are ALTERNATIVES. (and if you don't know how the cell models work, don't argue. i've researched this a bit.)  there are also virtual models. technology is more advanced than you think it is. every second, people get closer to discovering something new. and most of the time, it's not through animal testing. there are not just cell models, too. there are many alternatives. search them up. i really dont feel like arguing with you people anymore. it's awfully tiring. well, anyways. one more thing. someone said that we should be doing something other than sitting around and bashing each other. actually. we ARE doing something. we're DISCUSSING this...well most of us are...and we're spreading our opinons and spreading the word about animal abuse because believe it or not, there are quite a few people who do nto even know this is occurring. or they dont know much about it anyways. so, we are indeed doing something. I'M EDUCATING people with my OPINION.<br>

    keep all this in mind, please. and please think this through. i would have written more, but you people might have quite reading it...some of the people probably quite part way. anyways.<br>

    Thanks for your time,<br> <br>

    EM <3<br> <br>

    go to PETA for some more information, pictures, and videos<br> <br>

    & here's a website i went on.t here's a video.<br> <br> 

    http://www.peta.org/actioncenter/testing.asp

  • SeanRenaud said on Jul 02, 2009....

    PETA is filled with liars.  That said nearly EVERY major discovery has involved animal testing.  You're right to your opinion but it's wrong.

    If animals suddenly took over the world, well for starters we'd be communicating with rational beings and hopefully they wouldn't test shit on us, however nature DEMANDS that the strong prey upon the weak so I don't expect deer to love wolves, I bet deer wish (if they are inteligent enough to wish) that the all the wolves and bobcats and other predators would die off.  Sorry not how the world works.  If a time comes when we are inferior that is the way of nature.

    Honestly the previous response was so stupid didn't warrant a full response.

  • EmaLee said on Jul 06, 2009....

    PETA would not be filled with liars. Don't delusion yourself. It's a reowned organization.

    Not every major discovery involved animal testing. For example, a man long known as 'HM' underwent experimental brain sugery in 1953. Parts of his brain were removed. Scientists learned many things from that one experiment which involved a HUMAN.

    Also, deers, wolves, bobcats, etc. are part of nature. They were created ths way. If they were the only ones on this planet, along with all the other animals, many animals would not be extinct, endangered, etc. The planet would not be dying. The ozone layer would be fine. But, since humans are living on Earth also, the world is dying. Why do yu think there are so many movies about aliens attacking us and claiming the world is dying and that they want to kill the humans and leave the animals. We're ruining the planet. What animals do is all a cycle. We interfere. And when we test on animals, we're interfering even more. We're rocking the balance of life. You cannot compare humans 'preying' on lesser creatures to animals preying on animals. In the end of their 'preying', everything would end up balanced. THIS is the way the world works. We're just unbalancing things.

     

    -Em

  • EmaLee said on Jul 06, 2009....

    PETA would not be filled with liars. Don't delusion yourself. It's a reowned organization.

    Not every major discovery involved animal testing. For example, a man long known as 'HM' underwent experimental brain sugery in 1953. Parts of his brain were removed. Scientists learned many things from that one experiment which involved a HUMAN.

    Also, deers, wolves, bobcats, etc. are part of nature. They were created ths way. If they were the only ones on this planet, along with all the other animals, many animals would not be extinct, endangered, etc. The planet would not be dying. The ozone layer would be fine. But, since humans are living on Earth also, the world is dying. Why do yu think there are so many movies about aliens attacking us and claiming the world is dying and that they want to kill the humans and leave the animals. We're ruining the planet. What animals do is all a cycle. We interfere. And when we test on animals, we're interfering even more. We're rocking the balance of life. You cannot compare humans 'preying' on lesser creatures to animals preying on animals. In the end of their 'preying', everything would end up balanced. THIS is the way the world works. We're just unbalancing things.

     

    -Em

  • SeanRenaud said on Jul 06, 2009....
    Animals don't unbalance things.  Right.  Whatever.  I've had my fill of retards on this subject who ignore history and science and instead quote Hollywood for facts. 
  • Done said on Jul 24, 2009....
    People may be hurting animals by testing on them, but animals don’t get killed by being tested on as much as they do from people eating meat. Millions of chickens and cows are killed just to satisfy our dietary wants. If animals die for that, then why not die for a good cause like a cure for a viris or disease?
  • MRS.CHECKERZ said on Jul 28, 2009....
    Animal TESTING IS CRUEL AND INHUMANE. ITS THE HUMAN BEINGS FAULT FOR CREATING ALL THE DISEASES THAT ARE BROUGHT UPON US. ITS OUR FAULT THAT ANIMALS HAVE TO BE TESTED ON TO CURE DISEASES WE HAVE BROUGHT UPON OURSELVES. SO ANIMAL TESTING IS NOT ALWAYS ACCURATE, SO WHAt do u do NEXT? TELL ME BECAUSE ANIMALS FEEL TOO AND STOP BEING SO SELFISH !!!!!!!!!1
  • SeanRenaud said on Jul 28, 2009....
    There is nothing else.  And human beings have (probably) never created a single disease.  (jury is out on AIDS) but other than that, you're a fucktard.  Please play in traffic, the gene pool will be better for it.
  • emmalee said on Jul 31, 2009....
    soccergirl 10 : wow first you accuse sean of thinking hes right and you try to tell him that there is no right or wrong answer then you go off and are a total hypocrite !! BE OPEN TO OPINIONS!! and dont be a bitch about it!
  • kisputukas said on Sep 15, 2009....
    why should animals suffer for our benefit?
  • tiffer262 said on Sep 15, 2009....
    i believe that testing on animals is wrong and unjust. animals do not have a choice when it comes to them being subjects. now if they are testing for animal drugs on animals that will benefit our pets yes as long as its not done in a cruel way. now if they are testing human products on animals that is unjust and unfair. animals should have rights too. they think,feel and have personalitys as well. i wont buy a single product if it has been tested on an animal. they are treated horribly, and ive seen videos that prove that.
  • SeanRenaud said on Sep 15, 2009....
    So we should test on what?  Prisoners of War?  Criminals?  The insane?  The old?  If you can tell me what groupd of human beings either one of you are willing to sacrifice I'll listen.  Till then please refrain from speaking.  You're holding up science.
  • kisputukas said on Sep 16, 2009....
    I'm not saying that we need to test on humans at all. Why, instead of inflicting pain for a drug that may-or-may-not-reduce-your-side-effects, are we not making more developments in synthetic skin? If anything testing on animals is holding up science.
  • kisputukas said on Sep 16, 2009....
    I'm not saying that we need to test on humans at all. Why, instead of inflicting pain for a drug that may-or-may-not-reduce-your-side-effects, are we not making more developments in synthetic skin? If anything testing on animals is holding up science.
  • SeanRenaud said on Sep 16, 2009....

    On synthetic skin?  Not only would that not tell us the what effect the drug has on say the liver but do you really think we have the ability to create synthetic skin?

    Even if we did animal testing is not limited to make up.  Where do you think that new Swine Flu vaccine is being tested?  By squirting it on a hamster?  Please learn more about the subject and come back when you are no longer retarded.

  • idontf-incare said on Sep 23, 2009....
    wow. i think animal testing is prob not one of the best ideas we've ever had but we don't have a totally reliable alt. so if you guys were actually intelligent (like more so than the animals...) you might actually try like helping your cause instead of writing stupid shit about it
  • CassidyR said on Oct 13, 2009....
    Well, like most of you are saying, this is an opinion question. Personally I think animal testing is wrong, but there is a vast majority of people out there who have a DIFFERENT opinion. Therefore, do not bash on this innocent guy, Sean, when this is an opinion question, and HE IS stating his opinion. I personally think you should all shut your fucking mouths and leave him alone.
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 13, 2009....
    It's not an opinion.  It's a fact.  We do not have a viable alternative to animal testing.  We should all hope for one and strive for one but we don't have one at present.  So we get three options and two suck.  One is test on humans, two is halt medical research. . .until we find an alternative which might be tommorow and might be never, three is test on animals and continue advancing science and medicine.  These are facts not opinions.
  • NDApandas said on Oct 14, 2009....
    SeanRenaud you are STUPID!! i am a 15 year old girl and i know that testing on animals is wrong. i bet your not christian because u think you can decide if an animal gets to live or die.well guess what when you die GOD will determine if you get to go to heaven or hell.im pretty sure you will go to hell.and that is good cause you can spend all of eternity in the firey pitts of hell....with love me
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 14, 2009....
    LoL.  That was cute.
  • hillary?! said on Oct 15, 2009....
    wow. is everyone really gonna argue with SeanRenaud just because he has his own opinion??
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 15, 2009....
    Are you really going to pretend that every major medical advancement of the last century is an opinion? 
  • evonne(: said on Oct 15, 2009....
    lmfao! i love this. this seanny boy is trying to talk about other people being stupid, yet the only way he can actually express his feelings of anger is through swearing like a sailor. haha. go back to school. learn some new words. and maybe take some anger management classes, because this is a blog. it's for opinions. we're all entitled to those. even you sean. but only if you stop picking on people. then they'll stop picking on you. yea? sound good? haha. but for sure, the bottom line is that animal testing may be beneficial to science, but at the expense of mankind. being exposed to animal testing is desensitizing. Of course, that's my opinion, and i'm not forcing it upon anyone, i am merely sharing what i think. because that's what a blogs for. :)
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 15, 2009....

    No it's not okay.  Because it effects me.  If I don't stop these things here and now I or someone I love will die of a disease that we could have cured.  It is an opinion that animal testing is desensitizing.  I think your opinion is completely unfounded.  You might as well tell me that McDonalds is desensitizing.  Thing is that it isn't.  The fact that people get so sick over slaughtering animals today is adequate proof that we have become so separated from the hurting of animals that we can't stomach it.  Sure the actual scientists may be desensitized but the rest of us aren't because we are too far away.

    Besides are you going to be the one who buries your mother and tells her "We could have prevented this but we never researched a cure."  If you think that medicine has advanced as far as it needs to then go on thinking it's a bad thing.  If you think we have cured every disease that needs curing stick to that opinion. 

     

  • MRS.CHECKERZ said on Oct 18, 2009....
    hillary and sean are idiots that dont have feelings for animals. i hope you guys dont have pets
  • NDApandas said on Oct 18, 2009....
    SeanRenaud .wow.you are just a plain ASS:)
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 18, 2009....
    and I hope neither of you has family since you clearly don't care about them.
  • Tamara22 said on Oct 19, 2009....
    For those of you out there who think that animal testing is ok then i just have to say to that: you are cold and heartless and its people like you that make me sick to my stomach! Maybe we should stick you in a cage, or how bout we so your eyes shut so that we can test blindness! these animals didnt volunteer for this shit! God forbid you have animals, and if you do, maybe you should think about if you would give them up for an experiment. Oh, you have a disease so you would like to have some innocent animals tested so that you might get to live longer? Screw you! If you feel that way you dont deserve to stick around longer. We live and we die. Why the hell are we trying to keep everyone here so damn long? Back to the point, Animal testing is cruel and i hope one some of you get that through your dumb brains!!
  • MRS.CHECKERZ said on Oct 19, 2009....
    Thank u tamara 22 u know how I feel those people who agree on animal testing are inhumane and sean can u stop cursing at people we r just expressing our opinions ok
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 19, 2009....
    Because your opinions are stupid and dangerous.  But that's fine I think we'll just start experimenting on stupid people and spare the animals for now.
  • Tamara22 said on Oct 21, 2009....
    That would be great! How about we start with you! Seriously, you have your opinion and I have mine. You have been debating and arguing with people about this since 2007!! Half the crap you say isnt even crediable! I have been researching the issue for a paper i am writing in school and you dont really know what you are talking about.
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 21, 2009....
    Then tell me what alternative has shown equal promise.  Just one that has shown equal promise.  
  • juicebox said on Oct 22, 2009....
    Really people?! Millions of innocent animals are dying each year... Who are WE to be god, and take advantage of other creatures lives?! This is not fair.. Imagine yourself in a cage three times too small, shaking with fear, then a huge monster coming, putting some putrid drops into your eyes causing intolerable pain, and sitting there for days and days with the pain still linguring... How would YOU like that? There are plenty of other ways we can test products WITHOUT spending millions of dollars, and wasting a poor animals lives.
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 22, 2009....
    Can you please name one that has half, just half of the reliability of animal testing? 

    Also we are God by virtue of being superior.  There is no god, and long ago man took that role.

    If I'm wrong and there is a God, well the Bible says God gave us dominion over animals.  So God or no God we have this right.  Not that this isn't the stupidest argument made ever.

    Do you want people to die of stupid shit?
  • juicebox said on Oct 23, 2009....

    Okay, 1st of all I see your point.. Dont get me wrong.. But, like I said, there are SO many other ways to test products other than on animals... That way people dont have to die of stupid shit. We have invented planes, robots, calculators, ect. THere is something out there that we could use.

    Plus, if this is the stupidest argument ever.. Why have you been arguing about it for over 2 years..?

    ALSO- Aniamls are not reliable to test on.. (refering your equal promise statement)-- When animals are under stress, their bodies react differently.. And the animals are under stress because they are in a scary, weird enviroment.

  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 23, 2009....
    Because when I go silent you guys will think you've won.  It's the same reason I have to tell creationists they are stupid, if you look around you can see just how bad it's gotten on that subject because inteligent people thought "Hey most people aren't that stupid" turns out they are.

    Animals under stress are still going to react mostly the same.  The only test that is 100% (and even that isn't true) is testing on humans.  Real live human beings and even then we have to test on both sexes and all major age groups and races.  But unless you are talking about bringing back Nazi medicine we have to find out what is safe (at least a bit) before going to that stage.

    Also why would the animals be in a scary weird enviroment?  You are aware that these animals are bred to be in labs.  They aren't brought in from zoos or the wild.  They are born live and die in their enclosures.
  • juicebox said on Oct 24, 2009....

    Yes, most animals are bred in the labs.. But also some are caught in the wild.. And regaurdless, even if they are bred in a lab its still scary having something one hundred times bigger than you put painful drops into your eyes.. Thus, stress, and their body reacting differently to the product, resulting to a false test, wasting yet another poor aniamls life.

    And your right, the only test that could 100% correct would be on humans. So this is why we should make an identical human cell, or body, or whatever, instead of wasting these miserable animals lives on tests that in most cases dont even work.

    I am not going to argue about this for 2 years, so when I dont reply, it doesnt mean you have changed my opinion, or "won".. It just means I am tired of arguing over something thats not going to change my opinion, and quite frankly I know I am not going to change your opinion, so its kind of pointless.
    --All due respect

  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 25, 2009....
    You're serious?  We should clone humans for the sole purpose of testing medicine?  I mean the rest of your answer shows such ignorance as to be scary but we should make an identical human body.  We should start cloning people.  For medicine.  You're even more insane than most of the people posting here.
  • eus110185 said on Oct 25, 2009....

    ai, juice box

    if yur against testing on animals, then y in the world r u supporting testing on clones, clones are clones, identical copies

    in other words, they would have the same feelings and thoughts of the original, that means u would be supporting testing on humans and against testing on animals, so yeah, reword a bit there...

  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 25, 2009....
    That's clearly what she meant to say EUS.  Humans lives are worth less than animals and should be used for testing.  I just don't know why she didn't say we should use our prison population.  At least they did something wrong instead of clones which would literally be like having children just to experiment on.

    The truth is that anybody who is against animal testing is against scientific advancement and should start by refusing to use any product that animals helped create.
  • eus110185 said on Oct 25, 2009....

    ya should've used the refusal of product purchase as a supportive argument earlier...

    it would've caused their self-contradiction

  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 25, 2009....
    They would have and still will claim that since it's after the fact it doesn't matter.  The animals were already tested on.  Truth is they wouldn't be wrong.  The fact is we still haven't cured AIDS or Cancer or thousands of other diseases and we should.
  • eus110185 said on Oct 25, 2009....
    true, mebbe true, but agin, the expenses for animal testing r massive, if the company slipped and didnt receive as much income, they would ultimately go bankrupt
     
    and also it would be hard to cure a disorder (AIDS), cuz it would mean infecting the animal first
     
    and er, i guess a got a pt there too tho...
  • eus110185 said on Oct 25, 2009....
    well remember to build up yur future arguments on the result of the experiments, rather than the process
     
    ya found pretty much a moral issue to debate on, so its based on devotion and mental will good luck :)
  • Tamara22 said on Oct 26, 2009....
    First of all there is a cure for cancer. but in america if you dont use kimo therapy on a patient then you will go to prison because that is illegal. there is a doctor who cured a woman of cancer and didnt use kimotherapy and went to jail just a few years ago. Secondly who says that the bible is correct? are you really going to believe something that has been rewritten,things put in, things taken out, for centuries! If there is a god I believe he would want you to love all creatures and treat them the way you would want to be treated. I agree that animal testing has benefitted us in the past but with todays technologies it is not neccisary.
  • juicebox said on Oct 26, 2009....
    I wouldn't say that I am insane.. Thats a little childish, isn't it? =S And thanks Tamara 22, I agree with you =] God loves all the creatures the same.. And he wouldn't want such pain and misery for anything... And there SHOULD be an alternative Oh and people, I see your point people, haha- no need to get defensive- Im not a scientist or anything, I don't know a different alternative to animal testing-- I just think that its cruel... And we should find a different way

  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 27, 2009....
    Wow.  I wish you two would just admit you're idiots and your opinion shouldn't be counted..
  • staysexy4life said on Oct 27, 2009....
    i belive that aniamal testing is a good ideal as long as it has some real results. if your testing on an animal that has a natural desease that can harm humans then it is a good ideal to figure out what it is. everyone who says that animal testing is wrong didnt say that in 1922 when animal testing allowed for insulin to be isolated from dogs they also didnt say that when In the 1930s, modern anaesthetics and antibiotics were developed from the use of animal testing. netiher dose the women who wear makeup sence it comes from testing on animals also.
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 28, 2009....
    I'm almost willing to cede the point on make up.  While I doubt that puting lipstick on a chimp has any ill effects most of the time I can cede that point.  but the rest of your post is spot on.
  • TonyaMariee said on Nov 09, 2009....
    Alright,so I think all this bashing on sean whatever is extremely immature. I too agree animal testing is wrong and should be illegal, but everyone is entitled to there own opinion. So, stop wasting your timee. Got to http://www.peta.org/ActionCenter/testing.asp Donate, sponsor etc.
  • SeanRenaud said on Nov 09, 2009....
    Tonya is right.  Lets stop exploring space.  Donate to Peta keep people on Earth stop all future space travel!
  • change116 said on Nov 10, 2009....
    I know SeanRenaud from school and i most definatly know that he is Gay. wow Sean you get isolated from everyone in the real world so you have to go online where no one knows the real you. I say you just go straight you little dick sucking faggit and we wont have problems
  • SeanRenaud said on Nov 11, 2009....

    LoL.

  • Snofleik said on Nov 13, 2009....
    I say we should just test on people that are on death row and also those that have been in jail and convicted of 1. raping for the 2nd time. 2. killing after CONCRETE evidence has been provided. if you still need more people to test on... use those that are serving life sentences. Crime would not only lessen, but what's closer to human dna than human dna, right?
  • SeanRenaud said on Nov 13, 2009....
    Hey if you're down to test on humans that'll work just fine.  I don't think crime would go down though, I think we'd have jaywalking suddenly rate life in jail but hey it'll work.
  • Snofleik said on Nov 14, 2009....

    Fine fine, serial rapists and serial killers should do the trick. If they're not going to benefit society one way, why not let them help society through science? Besides, i'm not talking about a big massacre... it's not like they take a thousand monkeys and kill each one in a day... just a group of them for long-term research.

    I wouldn't have a problem with animal research if they only used animals as big or smaller than a softball, but why take innocent dogs, monkeys, cats, bunnies, etc when they can use the dna of a actual human?

    Something along the line that states: if you decide to be a serial rapist or killer, you will be used in human vivisection.

    This wouldn't be applied to the present inmates, but to all further serial criminals so that they know what they are compromising.

    Worth a try!

  • SeanRenaud said on Nov 14, 2009....

    Its only worth a try if you use past and present criminals.  And more than that you do know how many investagtions happen don't you?

     

  • Snofleik said on Nov 14, 2009....
    past, present... meh. As long as they're serial criminals, it's a go in my book. I'm sure there are plenty of serial criminals to get enough research done. Besides, humans are stronger than tiny animals, so they'll endure the torture longer, in effect, lessening the demand of test subjects. It's a win/win!!!
  • SeanRenaud said on Nov 16, 2009....

    1.  Its not always torture. 

    2.  I don't think jaywalkers deserve to be experimented on.  You've only ran one red in your life right?

  • Snofleik said on Nov 16, 2009....
    Are you so dense that you skipped over the part where i said we should only use
     
    1. SERIAL killers
     
    and
     
    2. SERIAL rapists?
     
    Trust, there are enough of those to go around as sad as that just sounded. Come on now, we're not trying to be the nazi regime over here, jeez!
     
    If they don't torture them, EVEN BETTER, it's still a win/win!
  • sarahthegreat95 said on Nov 16, 2009....
    i think we should be against it. it definitely isn't scientifically innacurate. want some proof? look at your dog. look for some obvious differences between dogs, rabbits, small mammals, etc. i'll give you an easy one. MOST NON-HUMAN MAMMALS HAVE WHAT?! FUR!
  • SeanRenaud said on Nov 17, 2009....
    There aren't nearly enough sereil killers and serial rapists to test just the risky stuff to say nothing of the shit like Viagra.  We'd run through the serial killers in less than a year and the same with the rapists and need to either go back to animals or move on to lesser crimes.  I'm telling you the conviction rate would go WAY up under your plan.  Which is cool but you're right it would be a nazi regime.
  • Snofleik said on Nov 17, 2009....
    I work in law enforcement. Worked for law enforcement for 15yrs now. There are more serial criminals to go around for years to spare. Besides, as i pointed before, humans are stronger than mere animals, so they'll endure the tests longer and we will not go through as many specimen.
  • SeanRenaud said on Nov 17, 2009....

    But you couldn't use them twice anyway because you don't know if Drug B is effecting Drug C.

    Serial RAPISTS and MURDERS for years?  Show me stats.  IF your telling me there are enough serial druggies then yeah but they don't deserve to be used. 

  • Oni_Girl said on Nov 18, 2009....
    I don't know about all of you, but i'd like to know Sean's credentials on the subject, especially if your going to bash other peoples opinions. Do you know the differences in amino acids in proteins between a human and a rabbit for example? Per, I don't know, say a couple hundred thousand different proteins? NO. You don't know how the drugs are going to react because these animals are not related closely enough to humans. If animal testing must be done, which in some cases is unfortunately necessary, it should be tested on animal that is the best match to our genetic and anatomical make up. Cladistics anyone?
  • SeanRenaud said on Nov 19, 2009....
    Of course animal testing isn't perfect.  Its simply the best we have available to us. 
  • DestinyxLynn---x said on Nov 24, 2009....
    Why have you guys been arguing about this for two years? Why can't you just accept the others opinion. I'd say my opinion but I might just start more arguements.
  • SeanRenaud said on Nov 24, 2009....
    Because that's what's wrong with the world.  There is a right and a wrong.  In this case we continue testing on animals until a superior alternative comes around.  Or we become Nazi's who think testing on people is acceptable.  Or we halt scientific advancements, not just in medicine but space travel, agriculture, everything. 
  • Oni_Girl said on Nov 24, 2009....
    There is no right and wrong when it comes to opinion. This topic is based off ethics.. do people think its right or wrong to put an animal through pain for our own personal benefit. Also, there are alternative methods. We choose not to use alternative methods like synthetic skin, grown organs, computer models, etc. because we care more about our pocket books and these alternative methods are very costly. I think testing on humans is perfectly acceptable. Announce the new drug, tell what it is used for and say "hey, you want this drug? come and test it." Really it's an endless cycle. We make drugs to treat illness, people do not finish taking their prescription, the body retains bacteria that is now resistant. Oops! now we need to go and make a new drug because these uneducated idiots do not understand how drugs work. We are create more illness than we cure. Unless it is absolutely necessary to test on animals it shouldn't be done. They have just as much of a right to peacefully live their lives as we do. And if we must test on animals, like I said before, test on primates since they are genetically our closest relative, but only after several computer simulated tests have almost guaranteed the out come we expect.
  • SeanRenaud said on Nov 25, 2009....
    Computer simulations are only going to get so close.  We've never actually created an illness though you understand well enough what you're talking about but you do understand that until we test it we really have no idea what's going to happen.  And all of the alternatives you mentioned are inferior to animal testing as well as costing more.
  • HeatherBobether said on Nov 27, 2009....
    There are somethings in life that arent worth the suffereing of innocent annimals
  • HeatherBobether said on Nov 27, 2009....
    There are some things in this life that arent worth the suffereing
  • SeanRenaud said on Nov 27, 2009....

    Yeah there are.  If you want to abandon say make up.  Fine.  While I doubt that make up testing really hurts animals but so bad I have no problem with banning the invention of any new make up.  I think we've probably got enough soap and shampoo that we can safely stick with what we have forever.  I'd rather not but that's fine.  I'm not sure how I would vote for "elective" drugs.  You know like Prozac.  If you're life sucks that bad just kill yourself and be done with it.  Once you start wandering back into cancer and major diseases though it's worth it.

  • HeatherBobether said on Nov 27, 2009....
    I agree with we have enough of what we have and i rarly use makeup so i agree with that alos, but i dont hate my life or anything im actually a happy person who has a life and so no im not going to kill myself so whatever. im sorry you feel so strongly that you must prove everyone wrong thats must suck for you.
  • Oni_Girl said on Nov 27, 2009....
    You doubt make up testing hurts animals? Go buy some mascara and poke your self in the eyes a few times. Then imagine that your tear ducts are pretty much worthless say like a rabbit. Its not pleasant. Diseases are unfortunate and I do not agree with making 20 different drugs all for the same purpose. Drugs for disease should be tested on primates if not tested on grown human cells. As for cancer, this is completely pointless to be tested animals. Cancer cells are rogue cells. They do not follow proper cell duplication. Yes, animals can get cancer as well, but if there was a cure that could come from animal testing it would have been discovered by now. Obviously the duplication process is not the only trigger. They need to look a specifically human cells since they are different from other animal cells. When I say the "cells" I do not mean simple cell make up, I mean the enzymes, chemicals etc, that are made up within the cells. Also I would like to add that the options I mentioned in my last post are not inferior, they are just more costly, but also more accurate. Grown skin and organs would be a perfect match, computer models are just to simulate the most accurate hypothesis before testing (on grown parts, primates if necessary) is done. 
  • NDApandas said on Nov 27, 2009....
    SeanRenaud and staysexy4life(slut) you two are just ignorant...
  • SeanRenaud said on Nov 27, 2009....

    Oni you're and idiot. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.  For example what if we use grown skin how will we know what effect it will have on the kidneys?  Particularly when there are no kidneys hooked up to the system?  Or the brain?  Or the liver?  We can't curently grow an entire body so it's not good enough.  And even if we could people like you would object.  But lets test on jews and blacks. It's all good and they are closer to use genetically right?

    NDA, you're twice the idiot Oni wishes she was.

    There are NO alternativies.  If a single genunine alternative existed we'd use it and it would cause a revolution as I've mentioned several times in this same blog.  Please go kill your selves.  Human kind is actually wasting resourses by allowing the two of you to breathe.

  • Oni_Girl said on Nov 27, 2009....
    LMAO. No sir, you are the idiot. When I mention skin, the implies things that are used on skin, to test for burning, irritation etc. When you accidentally spray cleaning supplies on you, you don't say " OH MY GOD, I WONDER WHAT THIS WILL DO TO MY KIDNEYS FOR THE WHOLE MINUTE ITS ON MY SKIN BEFORE I WASH IT OFF!" If you want to stay closed up in your box of ignorance and stupidity go right ahead. People like you are the reason nothing gets done on this planet. You prefer to destroy because it's the easy way out. You only care about yourself and your money, you're a complete disgrace to human kind. Do us all a favor and go kill yourself. If there were less people like you, the world wouldn't be such a shit hole. There are plenty of alternatives, we just don't use them because of the cost you idiot. Which really shouldn't matter since we just print more money when the government needs it anyway. By the way... what qualifications do you have to be discussing this anyway? I've asked you before and you didn't answer. So, I guess that means you have no science background what so ever, which would explain your pathetic, close mindedness and obvious lack of critical thinking skills if you can't even piece together the fact the grown skin has to do with things tested on skin. Quit embarrassing yourself kid.
  • SeanRenaud said on Nov 28, 2009....

    LOL.  That's right, kids never swallow things they aren't supposed to.  And adults are never drunk and get things in their eyes.  I don't need a science degree to understand how the process works.  You're right I don't have a degree in biology.  Just done a lot of research.  I'm not a doctor either.  I'm just not an arrogant peice of shit like you who clearly understands nothing of science or how it works.  Than you for playing.

  • Oni_Girl said on Nov 28, 2009....
    Oh, so now your saying cleaning products are safe to swallow because they've been tested on animals? Then by all means go drink some bleach. You are definitely brilliant sir. I'm pretty sure every cleaning product has "call poison control if ingested", "keep away from children" written on the back, along with directions on how to use the product. If the kids drink it, it's the parents fault, and they can take the kid to the hospital to get their stomach pumped. LOL! you have obviously done no research and google doesn't count as research. You obviously do not understand how a human body works, much less an animals. All your doing is repeating the same untrue bullshit over and over. You don't even think we've created synthetic skin, which you are wrong again. It's called Episkin. I'll have my bachelors in biology this coming year. Who's arrogant? Who doesn't know what they are talking about? You. Once again quit embarrassing yourself.
  • SeanRenaud said on Nov 29, 2009....

    Why do those products tell us to call poison control?  Could it possibly be that we KNOW they are poisonous?  No.  that couldn't be it we're just guessing.

    Please shut the fuck up.  You're bachelors has clearly made you an idiot.

    Besides, lets say you're right.  that we do have magic answers.  What about space travel?  Should we send a bunch of criminals out to Mars?
  • Oni_Girl said on Nov 29, 2009....
    You don't need to test CHEMICALS on animals to know that they are harmful you dumbass.  THEY'RE CHEMICALS of course they will be harmful if ingested. You obviously have no common sense either. Now, i'm not a chemist. But chemists that make these chemicals knows what goes into them. They know if something acidic, to eat away rust for example, was used in the making. So, its safe to say, without testing on animals, that something acidic, that can eat through rust, will do severe damage to your stomach and intestines. We've used animals in space twice that i know of. Both times it was before any human ever when into space. Now that we have seen we can survive in a space craft, while in space, there is no need to send an animal. I really don't see where your going with the Mars comment. We have been to the moon, we have already observed Mars, its atmosphere, its weather, etc. The only difference between the moon and Mars is distance and the time to get there. So why would we need to send an animal? Your really just grasping at straws here, its pitiful. 
  • SeanRenaud said on Nov 29, 2009....

    Twice? More monkeys than that have gone.  Further testing includes scientists knowing nothing about how being born in outerspace (or on any other planet for that matter) will effect things and that's just off the top of my head.  And no going to Mars is nothing like going to the moon.  For starters it'll take YEARS and nobody has ever been up that long.  We already know that months of being up there can weaken bones if your not careful. 

    And yes we do need to test chemicals.  Thats WHY we test chemicals and stop pretending like everything under your sink comes straight from Dr. Doom's secret lab.  Pine Sol does something different than Bleach does something different from Chapstick, does something different from Shampoo.  Kid eats a bar of soap he'll live.  Kid drinks a bottle of Pine Sol not so good.

    More to the point in drugs you know how at the begining of any drug comercial in addition to liqour they tell you a long list of other drugs that you can't take if you're taking this one?  It's because they react to each other IN the body.  Ever listen to a Birth Control commercial.  That's something that goes on your skin to effect the ovaries, so why are you not allowed to take certain kinds of heart medicine with it? 

    The bottom line is if we had a viable alternative to animal testing we'd use it.  When computers finally get to the point where they are even 90% accurate we'll discover so many things because instead of starting with guess work, then research, then testing, then animal testing, then people testing.  We'll just ask the computer what happens if you drink a gallon of Dr. Pepper mixed with Pop Rocks for one month.  Maybe that's the cure for Cancer (I'm joking but the point is that we'll just do whatever comes to mind because again random shit happens when things are mixed.)

  • Oni_Girl said on Nov 29, 2009....
    First off, I'd like to know where your getting this "born in space" bullshit from. Secondly, if it is true, I wan't to know why the fuck my money is going toward crap research such as being born in space. If we know what happens to bones in a matter of months, it should be pretty obvious what will happen in years. You don't need an animal in space to show that. 

    Once again you don't need to force animals to ingest chemicals if you already know what they are made of. Same with pills. There are tests you can do that do involve any living subject to test reactions. Anyway, I have a headache, i'll get back to this later.
  • advisor said on Dec 02, 2009....
    hey SeanRenaud you are the only dumb fuck that i see on this page; it is amazing that you are still alive when you waste oxegen trying to make your self look better. all you do is bitch about things you don't understand. as for the alternitive we could use death row inmates(they're going to die so lets make their last minites on earth usefull) or we could use scumbags like you to test on. this would get rid of idots who waste life and it would help me get rid of any frustration by not having to you whine.
  • JayKay said on Dec 02, 2009....
    umm... dude... mr."advisor" that whole thing about Sean being used for research has so been used two years ago... please I’m begging you make up new come backs... I’ve been reading this blog for like almost two hours... it's hilarious but everyone is repeating the same come backs, and insults over and over and over again.... my best friend was doing research for a college paper on animal testing... at first she was telling me how against it she was... she had done some research and she was all for the stopping of animal testing. But she also had to do some research on the pros for animal testing... we both found this blog and although we believe with some of what the people against the animal testing believe... we are almost torn between the two options... I personally am on Sean Renaud's side because he has provided more information to base an opinion on than most people have put forth... though I understand that the lives of animals are important and valuable there is no getting around the use of them in science... I like makeup... I won't leave the house without it on...I like having cleaners b/c they are more sanitary than just using plain water and help to kill more germs and bacteria... animals may have rights... but the rights of people are more important than those of animals... before we worry about the abuse (if any in some circumstances) that has been inflicted on animals... let us worry about the people in our country that suffer every day... I’d rather save a humans life than that of an animals...again humans come before animals. To those who are for animal testing would you rather have an animal die or that of a starving baby??? Oh and Oni I’m sorry I didn't think I was going to stoop to having to insult anybody directly... but that comment about mars and the moon made you sound like an idiot...if I was your professor I would be very disappointed in your logic because mars and the moon have many differences besides distance. For someone who has received or is about to receive a major in biology that was a very idiotic statement to make... I think I learned the differences in planets and atmosphere when I was in the 9th grade... and wow your about to graduate college...it's so sad what our world has come too... to think people like you will be our scientists one day.
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 02, 2009....

    Least while clearly ignorant Oni has something that resembles a point.

    1.  We know what happens to people who spend months in space.  However there are all kinds of drugs both already in existance those yet to be discovered that may be able to counter act this. 

    Who said anything about tax dollars.  Particularly yours, as you've mentioned your a college student.  Don't lie, you dont pay taxes (you will someday in the next decade) but right now you collect a check once a year and spend it on booze.

    2.  Advisor:  Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha.  Bwa ha ha.  Stop it, you're joking, I'm crying here!

    3. JayKay:  In the end your logic is where it should have stopped.  Testing on humans is cruel and while I honestly wouldn't stop you from testing on Death Row inmates the fact is we don't have enough.  I gaurantee if we followed that strategy (as pointed out by Advisor) or idiot scum we could look forward to a combination of 1940's Germany and 1960's America with blacks and Jews just guilty.  (Hell it STILL happens with blacks and that's without government funding)  So that plan is out.

    So ultimately we have animals and us.  Andit's not like we test all willy nilly on animals anyway.  We run every test possible before going to that stage.

  • JKay said on Dec 03, 2009....
    (by the way this is JayKay... sorry bout the name change...it wouldn't let me in on the other account) I never said that I wanted to do testing on those in death row. I was trying to say that ultimately I agreed with your opinion about animal testing though not many people who have responded to the argument have... I think you might have misread my comment when I was saying that people's rights come before animals I was trying to say that I think the well being of people come before animals so that people should not get all worked up about how animals are treated when there are human beings who are suffering....I don't see how you could have gotten that I wanted to test on people out of my comment, because I don't. I really do agree with your opinion about animal testing because I view human lives more valuable than animals.
  • Oni_Girl said on Dec 03, 2009....
    JayKay, It's a shame that you are unable to comprehend anything you read. You are obviously unaware of the studies we have already conducted on the planet Mars, with out even having to go there. We know what chemicals make up the atmosphere.. mostly carbon dioxide, we know what kind of weather to expect.. its like a chilling cold desert, with occasion dust storms & has seasons similar to earth, we know the composition of the ground, etc. With all that knowledge, just like we had before going to the moon... what it comes down to is the difference in distance. JayKay, you have really proven that stupidity knows no bounds. And i feel sorry for your friend, I would not want to have some help me with a paper that can't even read a simple paragraph. 

    Sean, If there was some drug you could take to improve or reverse the amount of muscle and bone lost during space travel, why would we waste millions to billions of dollars launching a space craft to test this, when we have simulators here. And if the drug does work, while simulated here, for what reason would we need to send an animal to mars when we could send an astronaut? And if we didn't want to immediately send something to mars, we could test the time by means of the moon and still use an astronaut. At least by this way we could communicate with them and take accurate samples of bone and muscle, since the bone density in humans and any other animal differ. 
    Oh and just because I'm a student I don't work? And apparently I'm an alcoholic as well, which is news to me since I don't drink. Hahahaha. Sorry, I don't get a free ride from the government. I pay what I can on my own and for the rest I get loans, which in turn I will have to pay back. It's really sad that you are unable to have a civil debate. You attack people on a personal level because your insecure and have no idea what you are talking about. You do not know how laboratory processes work, you do not know how chemical testing with and without animals work, you do not know the differences in protein strain in people vs animals, you do not know cladistics, you do not know anything. Until you have done solid research instead of using google to get your not so witty remarks from. Just quit. Also, you think cruel experiments are not conducted.. check this out.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSrIkUXwsNk
  • Oni_Girl said on Dec 03, 2009....
    oh yes, and that link may or may not have that real thing, but i'm not about to watch it to find out since the real thing is extremely disturbing. You'll get the drift and if you want to watch the real experiment go look it up yourself.
  • melzdog123 said on Dec 08, 2009....
    First of all, animals can feel pain, believe it or not. How many of you idiots would like to be tested on. Second of all, humans are animals. We are not superior to animals. It does not matter that we can SUPPOSEDLY REASON better than them. They were here first no matter what you believe. ANIMALS are not the ones who caused global warming. ANIMALS do not gang up on each other, nor do they start pointless wars. MOST ANIMALS do not kill for the sake of killing. Therefore, animals are smarter than humans. I can almost understand testing on animals to try to find cures for diseases. But testing COSMETICS??!???!?!?!? That is just sick!!! Test cosmetics on yourselves, assholes!!
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 08, 2009....

    Wow, the idiot speaks.  Oni.  You have officially become the second most inteligent person here.

    Also I didn't say that there was no cruel experiments.  I said they weren't the norm and all of the research that even you've done lends well to the majority of these animals are well taken care of.

  • bbk9112 said on Dec 08, 2009....
    sorry had to make a name change (was advisor) i have a qustion SeanRenaud are you part of the animal explortion group? are you into dog fights, cockfights or any form of animal sport that makes them fight each other. just wondering, the way you speak it sounds like it and if you could please leave out any insults. i've read enough from you on the way down.
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 09, 2009....

    I don't really have an opinion one way or the other.  I don't feel that dog fighting is cruel, it's just kinda dumb same with cock fights.  But I'm fine with them being illegal because they don't actually serve any purpose other than entertainment.

  • Oni_Girl said on Dec 09, 2009....
    Wow, we have the next Michael Vick here. Yeah Sean, being beaten, starved, baited, and then forced to fight to near death isn't cruel at all. I'm sure your mind would changed instantly if you were forced to do it. Then when you lose, we'll just hook jumper cables to your ears like Michael Vick did then you into a pool to die a most horrible painful death. You disgust me. Any hint of credibility you may have had is completely lost. It's obvious now that that you just do not like animals period. Your not thinking logically and taking into consideration that they too feel pain, because you really just don't care. I think it's time for another Hitler. One to exterminate people like you. Not even exterminate, a death like that would be too good for people like you. I'd like to see you die in agony, just like the animals that are forced to every day in dog matching. Because you have no compassion, you won't understand until your put into that position, and it's truly a shame that doesn't happen often enough. You just keep in mind that people like you are looked on upon with disgust, because one day if your hurt and need help, someone may just look the other way like you do with animals. I know I would. 
  • superninja13 said on Dec 09, 2009....
    There are "facts" can point to either side of this argument. But really it's about your conscious which you can't really argue. Personally I think it's ok to kill and torture animals if their is a cause. Others are more compassionate. However you are not going to prove someone morally right or wrong it's not going to work.
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 09, 2009....
    A demon girl calling me a bad person.  Laughable.  Dog fighting however is just dog fighting, how you get them (or some of them) to fight is an entirely separate issue.  Kinda like eating chicken has nothing do with KFC's method of raising chickens which is so cruel I don't know how it's legal.
  • Oni_Girl said on Dec 09, 2009....
    Your an idiot. Oni is my dogs name, I call her Oni girl. I collect japanese art and "Oni's" ward off bad luck, in folklore they collect the souls of evil men. Hence I named my dog Oni. How is dog fighting and how you get them to fight completely separate? Matching animals is wrong no matter which way you look at it. They are not fighting because they want to, they are fighting because they are being forced and condition to by means of baiting, starvation, and beatings. Animals, unlike humans, do not fight and kill for fun. They fight for food, they fight for territory, they fight for mates. None of which is present when matching. And none would occur if not conditioned to do so without these things present. Maybe some snarling if anything, but not a fight to the death. I don't know why I waste my breathe, you can't argue with stupid.  
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 09, 2009....

    Would dog fighting still be cruel if you could get them to fight without those techniques? 

  • Oni_Girl said on Dec 09, 2009....
    Without those techniques they wouldn't fight, like I've already said, because there is nothing to fight for. Even if you could get them to fight without brutal techniques it is still wrong to stand by and watch while they rip each other apart simply for human entertainment. How I see it, people that participate and watch these events are simply men with small dicks that were probably abused themselves and are too afraid to confront their internal issues so they get there anger out by watch other animals fight and endure pain. In simples terms, they're a bunch of pussys, that make others fight their own battles. And before you mention UFC fighting or anything similar, those men choose to fight, for money, titles, and fame. They are not forced into anything. 
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 09, 2009....

    I wasn't going to mention UFC.  Though anybody who lives in the city could sit on their porch and watch dog fights for free and completely disprove your theory.  Still I'm willing to cede that Dog fights at the least are unnecessary.  With your grand understanding of dogs and dog training why would a dog that would attack a human on command, or a fox not attack another dog on a simple command of "Chopper sic em." 

    Doesn't change that animal testing has been on the forefront of nearly every major scientific and specifically medical break through of the last century.  Which is actually the point here.  You've claimed that there are viable alternatives but we both know that they are not viable, not scientifically, and not economically.  If either of these wasn't true we'd see a change because honestly there are enough people like you that even if it cost twice as much you'd do it just to spite the other guy.

     

  • Oni_Girl said on Dec 09, 2009....
    Hmm... I wonder way those stray dogs with no food or shelter given to them are fighting? Could it be just that, for food or mates? You really should have thought the remark out better. Your "Chopper sic em" comment.. is conditioning to be aggressive, one of the tactics used in dog fighting I listed above. Once again, at the fault of the person. They are doing it to please their owner. 

    My alternatives I listed for animal testing are perfectly fine. Its the greed of people that get in the way. Regardless of how many people are against it. The problem is getting them all together or getting all the signatures. Ultimately, it is up to state and federal governments which are above all the most protective of pocket books. They would rather spend there money funding war, and bailing out banks. We have cars that can run on vegetable oil which is better for our environment and cheaper, but do we make all cars like this? No, because it would become a monopoly. The poor oil companies would out of billions of dollars. Same with animal testing, we can do these alternative but choose not to because of selfish reasons. 
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 10, 2009....

    Which is a legit reason.  The dogs don't have a choice because they aren't inteligent enough to make a choice.

    You do realize that the cars that run on vegatable oil are ultimatly worse for the enviroment currently.  Probably won't always be that way but it is right now.

  • ejones2358 said on Dec 10, 2009....
    So honestly I became a member of SoulCast specifically so I could post a comment on this blog cuz this shit is rediculous. I'm gonna speak my peace, then get back to my life and probably delete my membership.
    The only reason I'm even on this page is because I'm doing a speech on animal testing. So I'm reading and I notice that this idiot SeanRenaud was the first and most recent person to leave a comment. Then I notice that he's been leaving comments for over 2 YEARS!! 2 fucking years!!!! Wtf is wrong with you Sean! Don't you realize you're the only one who has been commenting on this blog the whole 2 years? Everyone else has moved on, even one wired kitty and it's her fuckin blog! People comment all the time telling you to get a life, why haven't you done it yet? What are you, some creepy, unattractive asshole that gets off on pissing people off on blogs. You probably still live in your mother's fuckin basement, and I bet you researched animal testing just so you could spout information to back up your point and look smart...but you don't, you look like a jackass who has nothing better to do with his time. and it's not like you really care about animal testing cuz you spend more time takin shots at other people who leave comments than arguing your point. and you've been an asshole from the start, in your first comment you put "if you don't agree with me you are fucking dumb"instead of just leaving that shit off and just having a normal comment. That's why people on this blog hate you, cuz your a fucking prick for no reason. I bet nobody likes you in real life for that same reason, that's why you don't have friends and you say on your computer all damn day. If I was one wired kitty, I'd be PISSED that you've been polluting my blog for 2 years!
    So that's it, I'm done now so Sean when you post something after this to respond to what I'm saying, and I'm sure you will cuz you're an asshole and assholes always like to have the last word, just know that I probably won't waste my time reading whatever bullshit you write cuz I'll be out living life. You should do the same and while your at it try getting laid once, it'll clear up all that pent up anger you have.
  • ejones2358 said on Dec 10, 2009....
    So honestly I became a member of SoulCast specifically so I could post a comment on this blog cuz this shit is rediculous. I'm gonna speak my peace, then get back to my life and probably delete my membership.
    The only reason I'm even on this page is because I'm doing a speech on animal testing. So I'm reading and I notice that this idiot SeanRenaud was the first and most recent person to leave a comment. Then I notice that he's been leaving comments for over 2 YEARS!! 2 fucking years!!!! Wtf is wrong with you Sean! Don't you realize you're the only one who has been commenting on this blog the whole 2 years? Everyone else has moved on, even one wired kitty and it's her fuckin blog! People comment all the time telling you to get a life, why haven't you done it yet? What are you, some creepy, unattractive asshole that gets off on pissing people off on blogs. You probably still live in your mother's fuckin basement, and I bet you researched animal testing just so you could spout information to back up your point and look smart...but you don't, you look like a jackass who has nothing better to do with his time. and it's not like you really care about animal testing cuz you spend more time takin shots at other people who leave comments than arguing your point. and you've been an asshole from the start, in your first comment you put "if you don't agree with me you are fucking dumb"instead of just leaving that shit off and just having a normal comment. That's why people on this blog hate you, cuz your a fucking prick for no reason. I bet nobody likes you in real life for that same reason, that's why you don't have friends and you say on your computer all damn day. If I was one wired kitty, I'd be PISSED that you've been polluting my blog for 2 years!
    So that's it, I'm done now so Sean when you post something after this to respond to what I'm saying, and I'm sure you will cuz you're an asshole and assholes always like to have the last word, just know that I probably won't waste my time reading whatever bullshit you write cuz I'll be out living life. You should do the same and while your at it try getting laid once, it'll clear up all that pent up anger you have.
  • ejones2358 said on Dec 10, 2009....
    So honestly I became a member of SoulCast specifically so I could post a comment on this blog cuz this shit is ridiculous. I'm gonna speak my peace, then get back to my life and probably delete my membership.

    The only reason I'm even on this page is because I'm doing a speech on animal testing. So I'm reading and I notice that this idiot SeanRenaud was the first and most recent person to leave a comment. Then I notice that he's been leaving comments for over 2 YEARS!! 2 fucking years!!!! Wtf is wrong with you Sean! Don't you realize you're the only one who has been commenting on this blog the whole 2 years? Everyone else has moved on, even one wired kitty and it's her fuckin blog! People comment all the time telling you to get a life, why haven't you done it yet? What are you, some creepy, unattractive asshole that gets off on pissing people off on blogs.  You probably still live in your mother's fuckin basement, and I bet you researched animal testing just so you could spout information to back up your point and look smart...but you don't, you look like a jackass who has nothing better to do with his time. and it's not like you really care about animal testing cuz you spend more time takin shots at other people who leave comments than arguing your point. and you've been an asshole from the start, in your first comment you put "if you don't agree with me you are fucking dumb"instead of just leaving that shit off and just having a normal comment. That's why people on this blog hate you, cuz your a fucking prick for no reason. I bet nobody likes you in real life for that same reason, that's why you don't have friends and you say on your computer all damn day. If I was one wired kitty, I'd be PISSED that you've been polluting my blog for 2 years!

    So that's it, I'm done now so Sean when you post something after this to respond to what I'm saying, and I'm sure you will cuz you're an asshole and assholes always like to have the last word, just know that I probably won't waste my time reading whatever bullshit you write cuz I'll be out living life. You should do the same and while your at it try getting laid once, it'll clear up all that pent up anger you have.
  • ejones2358 said on Dec 10, 2009....
    So honestly I became a member of SoulCast specifically so I could post a comment on this blog cuz this shit is ridiculous. I'm gonna speak my peace, then get back to my life and probably delete my membership.

    The only reason I'm even on this page is because I'm doing a speech on animal testing. So I'm reading and I notice that this idiot SeanRenaud was the first and most recent person to leave a comment. Then I notice that he's been leaving comments for over 2 YEARS!! 2 fucking years!!!! Wtf is wrong with you Sean! Don't you realize you're the only one who has been commenting on this blog the whole 2 years? Everyone else has moved on, even one wired kitty and it's her fuckin blog! People comment all the time telling you to get a life, why haven't you done it yet? What are you, some creepy, unattractive asshole that gets off on pissing people off on blogs.  You probably still live in your mother's fuckin basement, and I bet you researched animal testing just so you could spout information to back up your point and look smart...but you don't, you look like a jackass who has nothing better to do with his time. and it's not like you really care about animal testing cuz you spend more time takin shots at other people who leave comments than arguing your point. and you've been an asshole from the start, in your first comment you put "if you don't agree with me you are fucking dumb"instead of just leaving that shit off and just having a normal comment. That's why people on this blog hate you, cuz your a fucking prick for no reason. I bet nobody likes you in real life for that same reason, that's why you don't have friends and you say on your computer all damn day. If I was one wired kitty, I'd be PISSED that you've been polluting my blog for 2 years!

    So that's it, I'm done now so Sean when you post something after this to respond to what I'm saying, and I'm sure you will cuz you're an asshole and assholes always like to have the last word, just know that I probably won't waste my time reading whatever bullshit you write cuz I'll be out living life. You should do the same and while your at it try getting laid once, it'll clear up all that pent up anger you have.
  • ejones2358 said on Dec 10, 2009....
    So honestly I became a member of SoulCast specifically so I could post a comment on this blog cuz this shit is ridiculous. I'm gonna speak my peace, then get back to my life and probably delete my membership.

    The only reason I'm even on this page is because I'm doing a speech on animal testing. So I'm reading and I notice that this idiot SeanRenaud was the first and most recent person to leave a comment. Then I notice that he's been leaving comments for over 2 YEARS!! 2 fucking years!!!! Wtf is wrong with you Sean! Don't you realize you're the only one who has been commenting on this blog the whole 2 years? Everyone else has moved on, even one wired kitty and it's her fuckin blog! People comment all the time telling you to get a life, why haven't you done it yet? What are you, some creepy, unattractive asshole that gets off on pissing people off on blogs.  You probably still live in your mother's fuckin basement, and I bet you researched animal testing just so you could spout information to back up your point and look smart...but you don't, you look like a jackass who has nothing better to do with his time. and it's not like you really care about animal testing cuz you spend more time takin shots at other people who leave comments than arguing your point. and you've been an asshole from the start, in your first comment you put "if you don't agree with me you are fucking dumb"instead of just leaving that shit off and just having a normal comment. That's why people on this blog hate you, cuz your a fucking prick for no reason. I bet nobody likes you in real life for that same reason, that's why you don't have friends and you say on your computer all damn day. If I was one wired kitty, I'd be PISSED that you've been polluting my blog for 2 years!

    So that's it, I'm done now so Sean when you post something after this to respond to what I'm saying, and I'm sure you will cuz you're an asshole and assholes always like to have the last word, just know that I probably won't waste my time reading whatever bullshit you write cuz I'll be out living life. You should do the same and while your at it try getting laid once, it'll clear up all that pent up anger you have.
  • Oni_Girl said on Dec 11, 2009....
    A selfish reason is not always a legit reason, its probably just the opposite in many cases. If it wasn't for selfish reasons, our country would be much better, safer, friendly (in the sense of cultural differences, friendly to varieties of incomes) the economy would be better. Basically the scales would be much more even. 

    To your intelligence comment, children are not intelligent enough to make a choice. Their parents can force them to do whatever they want if they the threaten them, just like people do with dogs. They force them by threatening them with lack of food and beatings and god knows what other terrible things. 

    Right now vegetable oil ran cars may be worse (which I doubt but haven't look into it enough), but the point was that we have my better alternatives to a lot of things, but do use them because some people (oil companies, etc) would be out of a lot of money. 
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 11, 2009....

    You're point about selfishness is naive.  Communism doesn't work because human beings are selfish, it's in our DNA and without it we die.  In fact a strong argument can be made that even when done "properly" that communism/socialism is detrimental to humans as a species (not as individuals) basically the better the life and life expectancy is for any animal the less off spring they have.  Its counter-intuitive but true.

    You're children comment is interesting.  Children eventually grow into adults though and to say children are not intelligent enough to make a choice is wrong anyway.  They make choices all the time.  In fact even by your logic you can make them do things by threatening them but to be honest you can do that to anybody that you are physically superior to (however you accomplish it).  If Mike Tyson told me to strip down and get into a fight with a wolf with by bear hands, I'd have my options.  Get knocked the fuck out OR hope I could beat the wolf.  (that's still a choice btw but completely aside from the point)  The point being that once threats come into play it's not a matter of inteligence so much as self preservation.

    Look it up.  Vegatable Oil cars do run cleaner, that much goes without saying.  But you have to grow the corn, you have to process the corn, you have to use the fertilizers, you have to use the pesticides.  ETC ETC ETC.  The idea that we don't use better alternatives because it would lose some people some money doesn't hold up to the logic it's built on.  It's built on the idea that a few people would rather be rich than do something nice for anybody else.  Which is all good and well.  I don't actually disagree with that.  The thing is that the first person who comes up with the alternative is going to be rich.  RICH like the Trumps and the Rockafellers where ten generations down the line their kids will think of jobs as those things that people on television have.  So why the hell would they be "nice" to the other rich people and not go for the power play?  Greed is greed and it's driven progress since the very first man figured out how to kill things. 

     

  • SharedSkitless said on Dec 14, 2009....
    The thing that I haven't seen here yet, is that we are constantly playing with our life-span, and that is not natural. All things have a time to die, and it is not in Mother Nature's interest to have us around longer than our natural span. The results have been seen for decades - longer lifespans = massive overpopoulation, This bible states that humans are the masters of all? Well of course it does - it was written by humans! I'm sure that every other species is the master of its own domain; we just thinks that we are masters of ALL domains. We live in a WEB of life - we are only one part of that interrelated web - we are not at the top of our imagined pyramid.
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 14, 2009....

    Longer lifespans =/= over population.  Infact if you look at lifespans throughout the world the opposite is true.  The shorter your life span the more over population you have.  It's counter intuitive but true.  It actually happens in animals as well as humans, it just makes less sense in humans.

     

  • samyDlicious said on Dec 14, 2009....
    OR, we could test on all those criminals waiting on death row, or sitting in prisons for life. The prisons are overcrowded so it would help cut down the numbers. The animals that are being tested on didn't do anything to anybody, there helpless. These criminals are rapists, murderers, child molesters, etc. They deserve to go through pain and suffering, not innocent animals.
  • samyDlicious said on Dec 14, 2009....
    btw, if we are going to call it "animal" testing then technically humans should be tested too, considering that humans are in fact animals. And this point can not be argued, because there is simple scientific proof. Just the fact that we are part of the animal kingdom should be proof enough. There isn't a human kingdom... Just because we are more advanced than other animals doesn't mean we aren't animals. So really if we are going to do animal testing, humans should automatically be a part of that.
  • SharedSkitless said on Dec 14, 2009....
    you're = you are: You're an ass. your is possessive: Your opinion is valid. Not "you're point", "you're children"... ; YOUR is the correct word. Never the twain should meet again. And apostrophes do not belong on plural words, so lay off the abuse.
  • SharedSkitless said on Dec 14, 2009....
    you're = you are: You're an ass. You're right You're wrong. your is possessive: Your opinion is valid. Not "you're point", "you're children"... ; YOUR is the correct word. Never the twain should meet again. And apostrophes do not belong on plural words, so lay off the abuse.
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 14, 2009....
    They're aren't enough criminals.  But by all means use the ones that there are for the testing.  Not like they are doing anything useful.
  • FUNNYTINOSMITHS said on Dec 14, 2009....
    SeanRenaud: WHAT A LOSER!! YOU HAVE BEEN COMING HERE FOR THE PAST 2 YEARS!! DON'T YOU REALIZE THAT YOUR COMMENTS ARE COMPLETELY DISPENSABLE AND THAT NO ONE GIVES 3 SHITS ABOUT YOU!?! YOU ARE A REAL FUNNY FUCK MR.SeanRenaud
  • Oni_Girl said on Dec 14, 2009....
    My comment about selfishness was in no way naive. Selfishness, if not for survival, goes hand in hand with want. A want for more than is necessary. It is not in our DNA, selfishness, if not for survival, comes from your culture and environment. You're taking my comment out of context. If you say my comment about children is wrong than your comment about dogs is also wrong. Dogs make choices everyday as well. Am i going to eat this? Do i want to play with that? Similar to children. But the point of that comment was that they do not have a choice when backed into a corner. In the dogs case and sometimes even a child, Do i want to die by doing what i've been told to do? or Do i want to die by the hands of the person who's supposed to be caring for me? They have no choice. And I never said it did not apply to everyone else, I used children because it was a simple example. Btw, you contradict yourself when you say its not a matter of intelligence, when before that you said they're not intelligent enough to make a choice. "The idea that we don't use better alternatives because it would lose some people some money doesn't hold up to the logic it's built on. It's built on the idea that a few people would rather be rich than do something nice for anybody else." You said exactly what I said, just more positive in the light of the selfish. Anyway, it all boils down to the fact that greed is the main cause for us not progressing in what we should be. We need to think as a whole and for the better of the whole. And I don't mean just for the betterment of humans, but everything.
  • megleighride said on Dec 17, 2009....
    i am a sophmore and for one of my classes i have had to write a paper on the ethical issues of animal testing and the pros and cons. as a result i have had to do a lot of research on the subject. i would just like to say that at the beginning of the paper i was very much so AGAINST animal testing, i thought how could anyone do something so harmful to a helpless animal. and to some extent i was right. animals are poor and helpless and they do deserve some breaks when it comes to animal testing. but after i got about half way through my paper i realized something animal testing has done tons of things for our medical research. without it we would not have half of the medicine and treatments we have today. so my suggestion is why don't we just help prevent some of the effects of animal testing which can easily be done rather than stop animal testing all together:D M Leigh R
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 18, 2009....

    Oni:  I think your comment about selfishness flies in the face of everything we know throughout recorded history and everything we know about animals as well.  Selfishness is the single drive behind every action that every organism takes.  You can try to draw a line between need and want but it's arbitrary.  If for no other reason because during good times all things capable of doing so take more be it animals getting fat so they can survive the winter months or humans saving money for a rainy day it is quite literally a DNA level action to take all you can get.  When people don't, they die.  It's that simple.

    As for dog fighting, why does it have to be fatal?  When wolves fight they simple go for a "pin" of sorts.  Also dogs not being inteligent enough to make choices, least rational ones, has nothing to do with the fact that how smart you are has nothing to do with a gun being held to the back of your head.

    You're final comment again is kinda silly.  It only works if rich people have this evil cabal that meets on Thursdays to hold the rest of us down.  I mean if you really believe that every rich and smart person is teamed up as the Legion of Doom then yeah I can't debate that because it's impossible to argue with.  It's like arguing with Creationism.  Logically ONE of them would realize he could be Mega super duper rich and would say fuck the bullshit and show us this new technique or energy and be richer than everybody else and not give one shit if everybody else lost millions.

  • Oni_Girl said on Dec 18, 2009....
    Sean, you continue to mix survival instinct with want. When an animal hoards food to survive through the winter that is a survival instinct that is necessary for them to live. A low to middle class person saving money for their kids college for example, is for the survival of their child in this culture. This is all good and well. My complaint is about the people, companies and our government avoiding new technologies and alternatives to many things because of the cost of money and the possibly of these people not making the income they are used to because of the changes. That is not a survival instinct. They have much more than is necessary already, it is a selfishness that reflects on and holds everyone back.

    When the dogs fight it is not always fatal. But when a dog losses it is common for the owner to kill the dog because of its weakness. The possibility for death is there no matter which way you look at. I honestly cannot see how you can even argue this with me. It is a terrible thing no matter what. Go look at some of the pictures. One dog owned by michael vick is so deformed from fighting it nose is completely gone and all the is left is the bone and some cartilage. Another that I used as an example in a speech I gave was a dog named fae. Her owner took scissors to her lips and cut them off completely so that when she fought the opposing dog could not latch on. They cut off their ears to where the only thing left is a hole. If you do not see that as cruel and wrong, then I think something is wrong with you. 
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 19, 2009....

    I won't argue you anymore on the point of survival instinct because you are trying to rationalize it and I don't think it's a rational thing.  Not any more than people can look at someone and KNOW if they are a threat or not, we do some things on an instictual level.

    The possibility for death is there, while I disagree with your point on dog fighting because I don't think that the things that you are claiming are true.  But that's beside the point.  I don't know why or when we put the gloves back on but since I'm in one of those moods I'd like you browse some of my blogs, I tried to do the same with you but it turns out you exist (it seems) solely to heckle me.  But while we're all in this Christmas Spirit maybe it's time I found out more about you and to be honest I'm tired of going round and round with you. 

    Sides I just don't care about dog fighting, I don't really think they are anything but dumb dogs.  But honestly I'd test on criminals if I honestly thought there were enough, even if it was only for the important stuff (like for example Viagra, not important.  It might not be worth living as a man who can't get wood but that's why I think you should be allowed to commit suicide, but getting a hardon is not actually a good reason to test something.)

  • missbored said on Dec 19, 2009....
    2 whole years and no conclusion. in my opinion animal testing is necessary for fundamental needs like cures for diseases. but for stuff like candy and makeup it's crazy. i wouldn't like burying an animal just so that i can eat more candy and look better. but i wouldn't bury my sister because i was busy saving lives of animals.and btw pls keep this thing going it's really interesting to read all this when your 17 and grounded
  • Oni_Girl said on Dec 19, 2009....
    Sean, To each there own. I think it's easily rationalized, you do not. I think all animals are equal with people, you do not. Everyone has their own opinion. 

    As much as I enjoy heckling random people and their opinions, you were the only one to keep up the argument with me. And I do like to argue. The reason I even found this blogging site was because I was researching opinions on this topic for a speech I was giving and needed a few opposing opinions so I could cut them down in my speech. I have browsed a few blogs on this site but I find them completely silly most of the time. Nothing important enough to interest me. I'll check out your blogs and maybe write some of my own. 

    Missbored: Rarely is there a conclusion when such radical opinions are involved. 
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 20, 2009....

    Missbored:  While I doubt they even test candy on animals, that one sounds a bit far fetched to me.  The question isn't wether you would like buring an animal so you can eat candy.  The question is if you would like buring your sister because we DIDN'T test the candy.

    Oni:  I don't see how you could come to the conclusion that we are equal to animals.  Wether you believe in God and Creationism then God gave us dominion to do as we will with the animals.  If you believe in evolution then we have evolved to the top of the food chain and again might makes right and we again end up able to do what we want because we have that power.  I'd again advise you look at interactions between lions and hyenas in Africa or wolves and Bears in America, or ANY invasive species before claiming that animals don't do "bad" things.  The reality is that their enviroments regulate their behavior not the other way around.

  • Oni_Girl said on Dec 20, 2009....
    How you went into all that from a simple sentence I wrote is beyond me. Wouldn't it have been easier to just say "yeah, to each there own."
    First, I do not believe that there is a god. I believe in evolution. Evolution is simply survival of the fittest, we came out of the gene pool with the capabilities we have and those more fit to use them, more able to survive did, just like everything else. To me, our cognitive abilities do not give us a right to do what ever we please. It tells me that we are smart enough to know how to take care of and protect the other living creatures, their environment and the planet, not destroy it like we are doing today. I was taught "do onto others as you would have them do onto you," and that includes animals. Everything has the right to live peacefully and I personally do not want to die knowing I caused the death of other living things for no good reason. And what do they do that is bad? live?
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 20, 2009....

    Kill for starters.  And not just for food.  Lions and hyenas will kill each other and not eat, they will hunt the young of the opposite species as well.  Bears and wolves do the same.  They take out competition, we just happen to be damned good at it.  Many animals would wipe out other species given the chance, the best example is pigs and frogs in Australia but there are plenty of cases of invasive species wiping out indigenous species.  The reason animals don't fuck up the enviroment to the degree we do is because the ecosystem actually works and keeps them in check, it's not a conscious decision.

    The idea of treating animals like equals is insane.  Just insane there is no debating it, I can't believe someone inteligent enough to understand evolution could think of themselves as equal to other things. 

  • Oni_Girl said on Dec 20, 2009....
    And in the wild, the ecosystem continues. If they kill and do not eat, a less capable hunter will find it and have food. Everything from that animals body will be used to feed other animals and the earth. Thats not bad in any way. A pack of hyenas can easily take down a fully grown lion. There's plenty of reason why lions may attack without food being the motive. They may be in the lions territory for example. Big cats do mark specific areas where they hunt and consider theirs. Another is that if hyenas are in the lions territory, they pose more of threat since hyenas and lions both share common prey. Its a competition since both threaten each others survival. Really? What I think is insane, is some people being blind enough to believe they are the center of the universe and believe that that way of thinking if perfectly fine and has no repercussions. I'm not at all insane. I respect all life equally and I don't think I'm better than anything else. live and let live.
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 20, 2009....

    1.  We are in agreement here just somehow came up with opposite ends.  I feel no desire to continue explaining.

    2.  You are better.  Hell simply by not starving to death you are better.  I mean go on tell me about how your a vegetarian.  Unless you only eat fruit you still "kill" to eat so fuck it.

  • 1234yeah said on Jan 08, 2010....
    No ones insane for saying animals should be treated equal to humans. Evolution for example, we are animals. so thats like saying sean we don't need to treat you equal to us because you are a living, breathing, mammal, but we don't think you should be treated equal to us because you are a human. Not to mention, your an ass, and I think your full of your egotistical self.
  • SeanRenaud said on Jan 08, 2010....
    It's good to see another idiot.
  • seandog45 said on Jan 15, 2010....
    i think that it is a bad idea to test animal how about we test, humans if animals had feelings and could talk they would say the same thing.
  • runescapeman3 said on Jan 15, 2010....
    evolution you belive that crap.
  • runescapeman3 said on Jan 15, 2010....
    it is stupid .
  • runescapeman3 said on Jan 15, 2010....
    anyone with me on animal testing is bad type aye.
     
  • LiddiieLush said on Jan 21, 2010....
    hi im 15 and i got on to this site as i have to write an arugument for english about animal testing! calling people names is not going to get any one anywhere is it??? another things is that everyine has different opions and every one should respect everyone elses opion its called being grown up!!!!! testing on an animal is a horrible way to end an animals life but if it saves peoples lifes then that cant be sooo bad can it? im sure the animal would be happy to know it was gunna die to save millions of lifes!!!! animal testing isnt just rushed into its planed out and thought out so that little pain and death is caused in the duration or the test! and every one that thinks animal testing is completely wrong needs to realise that they and being dishonest as i bet everyone of you have used at least 1 sort of medical product in your life time which HAD to have tested on animals!!!! some of you people should really think about what you are going to say before you say it because i am 15 and i can understand that yes animal testing is bad but it also has many positives to it!!!!! if you have any problems with what i have just said feel free to email me and tell me what you think because at the end of the day every one has their OWN opion and being abke to accept others show real maturity unlike half of you lot here!!!! lydia_godden@live.co.uk
  • SeanRenaud said on Jan 21, 2010....
    We shouldn't respect opinions other than our own Liddie.  That's not called being grown up, its called giving in.  We know what the benefits are of animal testing.  We know what the consequences of stopping animal testing would be.  This is something that effects your life and could someday be the difference between you living or dying.  Are you going to be happy if animal testing is stopped because you respected their opinions?
  • Oni_Girl said on Jan 21, 2010....
    Sean, If no one should respect what anyone else has to say.. why do you continue to post here? Are you an exception to your own rule? You want to be heard, but do not want to hear what anyone else has to say. And by your own logic no one here should care about what you have to say anyway. 
  • SeanRenaud said on Jan 21, 2010....

    Are you claiming you've never agreed with anybody?

  • kittycatkea said on Jan 22, 2010....
    This is getting out of hand...
  • Oni_Girl said on Jan 22, 2010....
    It has nothing to do with agreeability. Its the maturity of an argument. You may not agree, but should at least respect the others opinion while attempting to educate others using viable information such as logic & ethics to come to an agreeable conclusion. For someone who thinks so highly of yourself one would assume you would be able to comprehend my remark. 
  • Oni_Girl said on Jan 22, 2010....
    Btw, Liddie check your email.
  • SeanRenaud said on Jan 23, 2010....

    It does have to do with agreeability.  If I agree with you then we have the same opinion and thus I respect your opinion.  Some ideas are worth respecting because they have some merit.  Others do not.  We have problems in the US because of this culture of respecting other peoples ideas.  We are still having debates over creationism vs evolution because nobody has the balls to tell Creationists the truth.  Their idiots who beleive in fairy tails.  So now we have a generation of children growing up whose standards of what is an acceptable argument are set impossibly low.

    How can we possibly hope to move forward if we end arguments like evolution with giving the otherside of the argument equal time and respect?  Should I be able to bring in athletes who use tobacco products and live long lives as evidence that smoking is safe?  Would you respect my opinion then and say I disagree but I don't mind if policies are made based on your opinion?

    In this case if you win (not here but politically) your argument people will die.  Regardless of your opinion on animal rights you cannot dispute that nearly every medical advancement of the last century has involved animal testing.  So people will die.  Why should I respect an opinion that will literally kill people?  On your side if you truly believe that animals are equal to humans (as silly as that sounds to any grown up) why should you respect a man who wants to torture them?  We wouldn't stand for snatching people or breeding people just to test things on them and ultimately kill many of them.

  • Oni_Girl said on Jan 23, 2010....
    Sean, you previously said we must not respect anyone else's opinion other than our own. Now your saying its fine to respect another's opinion as long as it is the same opinion as your own. Which one is it? Either way your still just agreeing with yourself and making no progress what so ever. The US would be far worse off if we didn't respect others opinions. People used to think the earth was square, they did not respect the opinion of one who believe it was round until they were proven wrong. By respecting another's opinion it leaves room for investigation. If we did not at least respect a scientists opinion how would they achieve the means necessary to prove themselves right or wrong? Creationism is still around not because one just wakes up and says "well there must be a god." These people have outside influences to their belief, family for one, pressure from family, fear of death and life after death, etc. It is a learned behavior. That and there is the question to which I can not even figure out the answer to with out relying on randomness " Why is it that out of all the millions of species on earth, the human is the only one to have the ability to achieve such a high level of cognitive ability?" Regardless of who believes in creationism or evolution, they are still to this day both theories. Each having some form of evidence strong enough to keep the theory going. An acceptable argument is not just saying "I'm right and your wrong" as you seem to be doing with out any sway. An argument is using logic and ethics, as I said before, to prove your point or at least convince the other that your opinion is the most correct choice. If two sides both have a valid argument as this page does, then both sides must come to a conclusion that will satisfy both. 

    If you do not give the other side of an argument the respect and time to make their point, how will you gather enough information to logically counter them?

    "In this case if you win (not here but politically) your argument people will die." This is exactly the immature stubbornness I'm talking about. No one will die. I am not saying at this very second we should stop animal testing all together. I am logical and mature enough to know that right this second we need a decent portion of the animal testing going on although I do agree that it is right. What I am saying is that we need to work toward finding a permanent alternative. If we can put a man on the moon, and create all the technology we have today, we can create a better alternative to animal testing. One where when we create a new medication it does not have an absurd amount of side effects that will kill people just as easily because we are using animals that are not remotely close to humans for testing. If you bring up cost as you have before, the cost is higher because it is less common. It will be at a high cost at first, but if the idea is given a chance I guarantee the cost will lower simply because of supply and demand just like everything else. 
    To your silly remark on respecting a mans opinion who wants to torture animals. That is not an arguable opinion. No progress what so ever would come from torturing animals except the progress of furthering the world deeper than it already is into the practice of cruelty and irrationalism. 
    Do you have or have ever had any pets sean?
  • SeanRenaud said on Jan 23, 2010....

    Now you're just lying.  You're a liar.  I'm continuing this debate purely because I've got no reason not to.

    1. If someone shares my opinion it is my opnion.  So youre first argument is something only a five year old child could buy into. 

    there is NO evidvence supporting creationism.  Not one single solitary bit of evidence supports it.  You believe that there is because you've been taught that all ideas are of equal merit.  I can easily show you the same amount of "evidence" supporting the fact that the Holocaust never happened.  Should we start teaching that in schools because there is falsified evidence of it?  That theory has been allowed to survive because nobody just says, you're an idiot and moves on.

     

    Youre side HAS been given the chance to provide evidence ths support thier issue.  It just turns out it is null and void.

    You are lying, AGAIN.  For starters never once have you said you are in favor or phasing out animal testing.  Everybody is in favor of phasing out animal testing.  You have argued that Animal Testing is immoral and should stop.  So again. liar.

    You're suddenly twisting your position because even your feeble intelect is aware of the fact that your lying.

    Yes I've had pets.  Several that I have loved.  If killing one of them would have saved my Grandfather I would have.

  • Oni_Girl said on Jan 23, 2010....
    Hahaha, now your not acting... your reacting. You haven't actually said anything, other then making childish personal stabs because you can only see black and white. 

    How am I lying? I think animal testing is completely wrong, cruel and should be stopped. That doesn't mean I don't realize it cant be done immediately. 
    1. Sorry, thats not completely true. You can have a same common goal but can go about it two different ways therefore having two different opinions. I have had several arguments solely because of this. 

    I never said there was hard evidence supporting creationism. But there is centuries worth of documents still needing to be sorted out and investigated, original texts still needing to be found to find out where this theory began and why. 

    What evidence has my side presented that is null and void? Synthetic skin is null and void. That alone is saving thousands of animals. If more people would back up being against animal testing the government would be pushed to find an alternative faster. Most of the technology we have today was made in the last 50 years. Finding an alternative would not take long if we continue to push for it. 

    No one here, including myself has said that testing should halt immediately. So again how am I lying sean? 

    So you would sacrifice one of your pets to save any of the number of people on here, where on numerous occasions you have called them an idiot and said they should die?.."Please play in traffic, the gene pool will be better for it." If not, than your nothing more than a hypocrite, that is pointlessly arguing and not to mention constantly contradicting yourself defending a side that you only agree with when it doesn't effect you personally. If so, your clearly a liar. You've ruined any credibility you could have had simply by not being able to show a hint of compassion toward one person here. 
  • SeanRenaud said on Jan 24, 2010....

    1. If you think animal testing is completely wrong then you should think it can be stopped immediately.  Because it can.  Just like Bush effectivly banned Stem Cell research we could ban animal testing tommorow.

    2. Yes I would sacrifice one of my pets to save a worthwhile human being.  You I'd let die, because you've already stated that you would deny scientists the tools they need to save me.  So the sooner you and your kind are eliminated the sooner we can progress as a society.

    3.  It doesn't matter how many centuries of fairy tails there are, they are still fairy tails and should not be taken seriously.  There are dozens if not hundreds of books denying the Holocaust.  There are several countries who officially deny it as well.  Should we give them equal time in our class rooms or should we do what do.  Call them idiots and move on to something constructive?

  • Oni_Girl said on Jan 24, 2010....
    First off, do not tell me what I should think. Also, I'm getting sick of having to repeat myself because you can not comprehend what I'm telling you. 

    Animal testing is completely wrong, and should be stopped as soon as possible. Although, as I said before, I am aware it can not stop immediately because we are still using it to test out medications. Again, more people need to realize the animal testing is wrong and cruel in order to push for an alternative sooner and for it to be stopped as soon as possible. Stem cell research did not effect an entire population in the way medications do, that will not happen without an alternative set up before hand. Could you not come up with that on your own?

    It's funny how you can think of yourself as mature even though you post responses like the one above. Can you no longer think for yourself? Are all of your actions based off of someone else now? "I'm going to do this because you did that," there is nothing logical about it, its just a childish, emotion based remark, one you might hear several times while on a playground. Many here would agree that your kind are the one's that need to be eliminated. Stubborn, selfish, hateful, egotistical fat heads that think they have a bone to pick with everyone and the answer to everything when in reality they know nothing. It's sad. 

    Fairy tale or not, it's still history and anthropology, also very intriguing. Whole civilizations have been based off that "fairy tale". That alone is enough to spark interest and the want to learn more and I support it, as crazy as some of them are. So get over it, were not going to erase history just because you think its stupid.

     
  • SeanRenaud said on Jan 24, 2010....

    If it is completely wrong then it should be stopped immediately.  If they were testing drugs on say prisoners I wouldn't care if there wasn't a viable alternative.  I'd want it stopped, tommorow.

    So let me understand.  The Bible is good (and can you name 1 society that was based off that fairy tail cus I can't think of any) because it's been told for a really long time.  So has Greek Mythology. 

    Its not illogical and childish to want dangerous people eliminated.  I prefer by education but honestly if that won't take then we have to take other routes.  There is a reason why we have jails.  There is a reason why we still have censorship, not from the government (mostly) but from individuals who make informed choices about what ideas they will help further.

  • runescapeman3 said on Jan 25, 2010....
    i agree with sean i think animal testing is wroung we dont get the same results as tested on a human.
  • TaliaJones said 12 days ago....
    Dear Stupid people . i think this whole bussiness stupid. Animal testing it 100% rong. I can see in some places were people come from like humens dieing with No treatment !!!. but why dont they get off their arses and do it their selves !!!
  • SeanRenaud said 12 days ago....

    Uh I wasn't saying that rune.  I have no problem with animal testing.  Hopefully we find a suitable replacement because it'll save more lives but I've got no problem with the current system.

    Talia you can't even string together a sentence.

  • Oni_Girl said 11 days ago....
    I'm not going to explain to you for the third time why it can not be stopped immediately. 

    The Mayans and Ancient Egypt are two that should have easily come to your mind. Not to mention more people have died in the name of "god" more than any other. Your not to keen on history are you?

    Hah, I'm dangerous for wanting to protect the lives of other animals, thats funny. You'd think you would have a lot more respect for animals since we wouldn't even be in existence without them. You know, I don't really understand how you base your argument off the well being of humanity, because from I've seen you pretty much treat everyone like dirt. Hmm.. it seems through your actions you have contradicted yourself yet again. 

    Your logic and ideals are flawed. 
  • johnhopkinspro12 said 7 days ago....
    Wow I don't even know where to begin. All I can say is that we DO NOT just have to options. Whoever thinks that obviously knows NOTHING, and has done no research for they would find that nothing supports their argument. The alternatives to animal testing are endless, and if we must (which we do not) continue to cruely test animals against their consent then we could atleast proceed in a more humane way. Also, if the research only benefits us selfish humans, then the research should not be tested on helpless, innocent creatures it should be tested on us. The ones benefitting. Another thing, for any person with the slightest faith, we must respect God's beautiful creation, and by all means the research today is not respect.
  • nikki said 7 days ago....
    everyone should just shut up. sean has been wasting his life commenting to every single person that disagrees with him for the past 2 years. just let him have his opinion so he can shut the fuck up.
  • SeanRenaud said 7 days ago....

    No Oni there is NO reason it couldn't be stopped tomorrow.  Not if you belive that animal testing is wrong.  That's the truth, and you're a lying peice of shit.  The reality is that we aren't dying in droves.  It's like the torture argument.  you can justify torture to anybody in a 24 scenario, but in real life where plots are spaced out by weeks and months it becomes harder.  You're stance is that of a five year old retard.  Either it's wrong and should be stopped or it's not.

    John, how much more humane can we get?  If you are a person of faith however the bible is clear. Man was given dominion over the animals.  I'm not but you can't use that defense.

    Nikki: Please keep it up.  If I win, human lives win.  While your opinion is ignorant you're close enough to on myside that I don't care.  We can kill people or we can kill rats.  It's that goddamn fucking simple.

    No wait.  I apologize.  We should kill blacks and mexicans.  I mean prisoners.

  • Celeste said 4 days ago....
    Sean Renaud why are you bringing race into the conversation? How about you stay on the subject before you get your self into a shit load of trouble Everyone is entitled to their own opinion
  • SeanRenaud said 4 days ago....

    No they aren't. not if it's wrong.  Because race needs ot be brought in.  Several people here have suggested we test on prisoners.  So we need to discuss that openly as a suggestion.  Since we know the jails are packed with minorities it doesn't make sense to talk about this without mentioning race.

    Most of the people here are bleeding heart retards it's kinda sad

It's been a while, and so I thought I'd give you photo updates of all my critters, plus some extras. :-)...
stop animal crulety now...
stop animal crulety now...
This is the crappiest part of the whole thing, this is why I'm mostly upset, this is what made me somehow hate my dad more when I didn't think I could. If you know me and my love of animals, you will understand....
And I'm still laughing about it, which I needed as I prepare for tomorrow at work....