SeanRenaud posted on Jul 14, 2007
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SeanRenaud said on Jul 14, 2007....
Proof #21 - Understand Jesus' Core Message
Simply take a moment to think about the following statement:
- "Hello, my name is Jesus. I love you deeply. I have loved you since you were conceived in the womb and I will love you for all eternity. I died for you on the cross because I love you so much. I long to have a loving personal relationship with you. I will answer all of your prayers through my love. But if you do not get down on your knees and worship me, and if you do not EAT MY BODY and DRINK MY BLOOD, then I WILL INCINERATE YOU WITH UNIMAGINABLY TORTUOUS PAIN IN THE FIRES OF HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY BWAH HA HA HA HA HA!"
Think about this message. We have a being who, according to the Standard Model of God, embodies love. Yet, if you do not get down on your knees and worship him, you will be physically tortured for all eternity. What sort of love is that?
The utter silliness and contradiction of Jesus' core message should make it obvious to you: God is imaginary.
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TinSoldier said on Jul 14, 2007....
I think that Jesus' core message was to love and help one another. A lot of that other stuff was written later.
Similar with other religious figures. After their passing, their message gets distorted.
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alipatemiller said on Jul 15, 2007....
I have been putting out a regular series "And This Just In ..."
It is satire from the Fijian scene. I just made my latest post:
“And This Just in ... - Jesus and Allah Sue Vayeshnoi”.
Vayeshnoi is a politician who suggested the December 5th military coup in Fiji was 'God-sent'.
Been getting mixed - mainly good - comments for my series. But this latest one touched a nerve in some. I was lambasted by quite many. Things like 'senseless, 'garbage', 'do not take the lord's name in vain' etc.
I was trying to make a point in a comic/satirical way - what satire is supposed to do. My point being if Jesus and Allah and other deities were looking down they too would have been upset for people justifying illegal acts using their names. Four coups in Fiji in 20 years and all justified in God's name.
Many people here do not understand the concept of satire. Some are too maudlin.
Please read and comment - tell me if I crossed the line, if it was blasphemous, if I should be lynched
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theobjectionist said on Jul 15, 2007....
The gospels were written by men ~70 AD, there are bound to be differences in what people believe he said. For instance I don't believe Jesus intended that you must hate your mother, father and family to be an ideal for getting into heaven. The book shouldn't be followed word for word but should be taken as a loose guideline on how to live morally. -
StupidGenius said on Jul 15, 2007....
Another good post sean. I agree and will only hope that people will eventualy believe in "Blind Faith" but fact and reality. Maybe one day...SG -
husbandhater said on Jul 15, 2007....
Sean the bible was written by men and also tampered with by MEN. So who knows what he ACTUALLY said and what has been tacked on. I like the message even still. Think also about the language barriers. Certain words change their meaning a couple of 100 yrs later so things that meant one thing back then could be in a different tense or meaning NOW! We are not foul proof, nor are we without mistake. He without sin cast the 1st stone! -
StupidGenius said on Jul 15, 2007....
If you accept that words change their meaning then do you accept that the original meaning of the bible may not have been to convince people that god existed? It may have for all you know been a book about how god dosnt exist.Dosnt what I just said sound realy realy silly?Well thats the way you sound when you say things like "what he Actually said" like you know 100% that "God" exists. You do not know and im sure that even science fact cannot deter you from your "God Fiction".SG -
silverwhisper said on Jul 16, 2007....
interesting--i will need more time to look at this.
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lidstrom82 said on Jul 16, 2007....
Way to neuter the Gospel, Renaud.
Did you ever stop to think that with the world's troubles, that we are responsible, either with doing evil deeds or not doing enough? And that we need Jesus' help?
It's not silly to think that failing to do the right thing comes with consequences. You ask Jesus to save you, you're covered. You make fun of it, you'll have to answer for it someday. People are so willing to bash God for being so cruel, and yet if they followed God's rules they'd have no hell to worry about.
Belief or no belief, the Bible is the most influential book in history for a reason, not all of them from human malevolence. Too many are willing to believe the worst about an all-powerful God.
You think you don't get punished by a parent for disobeying? What's so hard to believe that God would do the same? Eternal damnation may sound too extreme, but if you waste all your time criticizing the consequences, don't be surprised if you reap them. That quote just sounds like a kid setting fire to things in his parents' house, saying "I'll never get caught, they're not home. What are they gonna do, send me to my room?"
They won't send you to your room...if you burn the house down. This is just like obeying our parents when we grew up, folks...but the stakes are much higher. It would be the saddest thing ever for someone to disobey God's rules, yet still get punished according to them...all because they were too puffed up on atheistic, philosophical, sarcastic commentary against Him. Don't count God out so easily, guys.
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SeanRenaud said on Jul 16, 2007....
This was hardly easy lid. I've beaten Christianity into the floor. The only reason your able to keep believing is that common sense and logic are foreign to you and will forever be.I've shown how faith hurts you. I've shown how faith hurts those around you. I've shown how Jesus either A lied or B was lied about but still you keep ignoring. -
grannypoet said on Jul 17, 2007....
FAITH = belief that is not based on proof: to try and prove faith wrong you must prove all beliefs wrong, everything that everyone believes in has an element of faith. Wether it be religion or science, be it mind shattering or just the faith that tomorrow the sun will rise. Nothing in this world is 100% proven, science has been proven wrong as many times as anything else.All we can do is have faith in what we believe and do the best we can to respect others for thier beliefs, and to continue to do the best we can to live well and help those around us.Peace Out -
StupidGenius said on Jul 17, 2007....
Faith is not compatible with science, we dont have faith that the sun will rise because we continuosly monitor it. We know it will, how else do we predict eclipses? Science is proven to be wrong? Science is a steady progression of tests and then more tests as our technology improves so do our testing techniques.SG -
lidstrom82 said on Jul 17, 2007....
Using faith to be right, or using it to further causes of war or oppression are wrong. Many Christians are guilty of that. But that does not make Jesus a liar; it simply proves that none of us are perfect. For every mission trip that heals the sick, there is something that amounts to the Crusades or the Spanish Inquisition. You can't make Jesus responsible for things that humans do. We have free will, do we not? We use that for ill purposes, whether we're religious or not. But that doesn't make God evil; we just messed up our choices.
I don't think you can ever beat Christianity into the floor, and it's not because of the sheer amount of "zombies" who adhere to it.
It's not faith in God that hurts people, it's using that faith for selfish reasons. It's perverting the original intent. Bear with me a moment:
water is good, right? We can't live more than a few days without it, most of our bodies are composed of it, and most of the Earth is covered in it. It sustains vegetation and most other life forms. It cleanses, it refreshes. It is a generally good thing. But anyone can take a pool of water and drown someone in it. That doesn't make water evil; it's what the person did with it that was evil.
Consider that for a moment: God can be the good, all-knowing, all-powerful being that Christians claim Him to be, but if humans take their free will and do bad things with it, the responsibility rests with them to account for their own actions. Too many people think that God is only as good as the worst choices Christians make, but that is false; not everyone who claims the title of Christian are right with God.
Common sense and logic are necessary in life, but I think the misconception is that all religions require you to check your brains at the door. Some do, but following Jesus is a conscious choice not just to believe in Him, but to love other people. Care for the sick, feed the homeless, pray for the afflicted. That kind of thing. And that does a world of good. If logic dictates that those things don't or can't happen, or are futile, then that kind of common sense severely limits you, Renaud.
And if God created natural laws for which life can be sustained in nature, then faith is compatible. The main argument is the age of the Earth. People championing science have been wrong before, in light of new discoveries. People claiming to know God have been wrong before. The common denominator is imperfect people. Critics of God would do well to stop pointing the finger at His "cruelty" in the Bible, or the bad things Christians do, and consider that all people do bad things at some point or another, and we need God's grace to forgive us for the pain WE cause and the regret WE feel.
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StupidGenius said on Jul 17, 2007....
I like your point about the water, But water dosn't advertise the fact that I can or should be used to drown people. The bible does. You must admit that. If the bible is gods word then why is it suprising that people have killed in the name of god, sure they help people to, that point I will admit. Anyone can help anyone the bible is not a moral guide book and if it is then it fails to guide everybit as much as it successfully guides, maybe fails even more so.SG -
lidstrom82 said on Jul 17, 2007....
Killing in the name of God is a very touchy subject. God says "thou shalt not kill," but the exception to that rule appears to be when God is leading His people to their rightful land, and do take it they must slay the wicked occupants.
Interestingly, there was a time when the Israelites did not wipe out the inhabitants of their land, and instead let them live amongst them. What happened was that the people's culture tainted the Israelites into immorality and worshipping other gods. Those were the consequences of not killing those people.
As it goes, if God's people in the bible were obeying Him and trusting Him, He would go out before them in battle and they would win. If they doubted or groused against Him, they would lose their battle. It was all an exercise in obedience to God, in a way. But remember, those were Old Testament times, and Jesus changed everything. The way we relate to God changed completely after Jesus' resurrection. Instead of burnt offerings, we pray. Instead of circumcision, we baptize. Instead of an eye for an eye, we turn the other cheek. Instead of putting to death someone who blasphemed against God, we extend forgiveness and grace.
As a moral guidebook, Jesus' parables are the most complex instances of explaining the kingdom of God, or any higher concept, that I've ever experienced. There's layers, levels of those parables that cut to the bone. Jesus' words were meant to divide, to make people think, to keep them from getting too proud or arrogant in themselves - or even religion. The Bible is incredibly useful in all sorts of practical matters, and it would take a lifetime to discover them all, possibly longer. The Bible is a deep, rewarding book for anyone who reads it with an open mind (not checking your brain at the door...what I mean by open mind is reading it without presupposing that it's all fiction and a failure).
I'm not sure what you meant about the water, the wording was a bit confusing. But the water analogy explains how a generally good thing can seem evil in some circumstances. Same with God and His people...if His people take a good thing like the Bible and use it to judge, persecute, or belittle others, then they have perverted God's creation, just as a person drowning another in water.
As it stands now, it's hard to tell what from the bible is exactly like its original text; I've heard established scholars both laud its perfection, and others who grew disillusioned and wished to disprove it. The difference, I've discovered, is their own personal experience. Some of the loudest voices against the Bible come from those who once lived by it, and thus they stood the most to lose if they were hurt by a perverted, judgmental view of God thrown at them.
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StupidGenius said on Jul 19, 2007....
If someone who totaly believed in god and read the bible front to back suddenly questioned its factual or ethical teaching do you not think there must be a reason for this, and a good reason at that.SG -
lidstrom82 said on Jul 19, 2007....
Well, the Bible makes clear that the Devil will try to discourage and accuse those that believe in Jesus. Then there's all the secular education that's largely being taught in schools, educated opinions that trust fact over faith. If you go only by what you can see, that's the limit of wisdom. If faith is a bunch of hooey, then knowledge of this world is the best wisdom available.
The biblical view is that every soul that worships God is a soul that Satan can't destroy, but he'll try anyways out of hatred for God and His Creation. That includes dogging believers with doubt and temptation. If someone does not believe in God, then Satan has little work to do. But if they do believe in God, they have a massive target on their back.
This is the reason why living a Christian life is very hard. Many just go to church and they're happy. But that's not what God has commanded them to do. It's to spread Jesus' love to everyone, not by force, but by their own testimony of how God loves them and works in their lives. Many Christians DO live that out, but they face persecution overseas because the people they tell hate them, or a Communist regime does not want its people to become less controllable because of their faith.
One ironclad instance of Christianity's strength is that so many have been martyred for believing in Jesus. They didn't even badger or insult people with it. They either lived under a government that banned Christianity, or they belonged to a religion or culture that was hostile to it. The extremely cynical view of this is that Christians are lemmings walking off a cliff, but cynicism doesn't change lives: human experience with God does. I wouldn't be alive without God. And people can discredit that if they want, but I can only answer for my own life, and I am not a liar.
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