• beyondtheveil said on Jun 28, 2007....

  zayda- Since I have never referred to myself as either, this is going to be something of an outsider's viewpoint.
  
  It seems to me a person who refers to them self as a victim is still in the stage of recovery and fear. The incident is still to some degree in control of their life.
  
  A survivor on the other hand is someone who has to a large extent overcome the bonds of fear and remembrance, and proceeded with their life. That is, of course, not to say they don't remember, but have moved on.
  

• sweet_cookie01 said on Jun 28, 2007....

  zayda i am sorry you had to go through that painful experience but i am proud that you have been able to live your life with so much optimism and is able to rise from that incident...
   
  in my opinion i hope people will respect it....
   
  if a person keeps on pertaining to himself or herself as a victim means that that person was not able to rise from it... he or she is stuck in that situation... she may be living in the present but she is tying herself in chains to the past.... i feel pity for those people who refer themselves as victim because they are stuck on it and seems like they are not helping themselves move on...
   
  if person refers to herself as a survivor i salute that person for being optimistic despite what had happened and has learned to move on and live life... a survivor has rised up from that incident and looks at the past without the past stopping her from achieving her goals in life...
   
  i do have respect for both person the victim and the survivor but for me i feel give my grand salute to the survivor...

• jadestar said on Jun 28, 2007....

  Zayda, I salute you for your positive profession - that you are a survivor - it is said you are what you speak.
   
  However, I do not trivialise the term victim - to me it somehow denotes the injustice that is taken place & the robbery (for want of a better word); so much more is stolen from a person than just the obvious - and yes, of course we can overcome, but the term victim reminds us of the injustice that has been done. Why must we be reminded? So that we make a stand - to stand alongside & support the sufferers for as LONG as they need it & more importantly to make a stand against a society that ALLOWS this sort of thing to happen or that turns a blind eye.
   
  The instances of child rape here are disturbing (again for want of a better word) and I have to restrain myself from screaming in the faces of people 'don't you care'!
   
  The only thing I know how to do, is pray. The only thing I know how to do, is make a stand against who I believe the real enemy is - Satan, to draw a line in the Spirit realm, as it were & say "no more". Perhaps my puny efforts don't accomplish much - but within me a line is made - and I know what to stand up for when people make stupid insensitive comments - like, she was asking for it(!!???!!!) - oh, don't get me started.
  Also it inbibes in me the passion to shake people out of their passivity; to look beyond the little box that is their lives & start caring about people, even if they are a different colour or class or poor or whatever etc & realise that really there is SOMETHING we can do
   
  I'm so sorry....... I just feel a little too passionately about this..... I hope I haven't bogged on your blog....

• silverwhisper said on Jun 28, 2007....

  a regrettable number of people i know in my life have been raped. in at least one case i know, it was a man that (i believe) was incested. i come to the subject therefore as someone who's held many a hand, lent many a shoulder: not as someone who's been through it myself.
  
  rape is a theft of so many things way beyond the mere physical act--which itself can be incredibly horrific--that i'm unsurprised that reported rape figures are believed to be well below the likely actual figures. and this is why i reserve my greatest disgust for those who would mock people who've been through it, or those who make the charge falsely.
  
  [/tangent]
  
  i view the distinction in word choice thusly:
  
  victim: "i was raped, and this defines me."
  survivor: "i may have been raped but i will not be defined by it."
  
  this isn't to say that everyone who uses euther word uses it in the same way i do, and by this distinction i don't mean to suggest anything pejorative. but i do think it's a gauge of how someone who has been through a rape is reclaiming his or her life.
  
  ed

• quietone said on Jun 28, 2007....

  As a person that was also raped at a young age (14) I would say that I was a victim and suffered throught silence.  I eventually later in life was able to put it in the past, accept what had happened and work through it...I now concider myself a survivor of this. 

• Sarafina said on Jun 28, 2007....

  I was raped quite recently, at the end of January.  I just sent my attacker to jail this month. 
   
  I view myself as both a victim and a survivor.  I am still going through all the emotional side of it, and think I always will.  I was victimized in my home, while my son sat playing next to me.  I was terrified that harm would come to my son, or that I would be too injured to care for him if I fought back more than I did.  I think I went into survival mode, to a place where I had to fight back by not fighting back physically, if that makes sense.
   
  After it was over, that was the hardest part of all this for me.  My son was there, and I had to protect him, before protecting myself.
   
  I have survived this, I am a survivor, I am still functioning and still able to move on with my life.  But I have been affected by this, and I feel victimized to a degree.  I am still afraid when someone comes to my door, and I still think of what happened a lot, and I still have bad dreams about it.
   
  But when we were in court the final time, and he pleaded guilty, and the judge told him off for hurting me, I felt validated and stronger and in control.  When I read my victim impact statement, it made my attacker cry, the entire courtroom silent, and made the judge speak his opinions.  I felt like the weight of the world lifted off my shoulders, and I felt strong again.  I felt like I survived this, finally.  I made it through.  I felt strong and powerfull and proud.  Things that I had lost when I was sexually assulted.  I felt closure, and almost allowed to move on. 
   
  So I know I rambled on a bit, and hijacked your blog, Zayda, and I am sorry. 
   
  My point is, I am both, I have survived being raped, and I am a victim in the sense that this never really goes away, and that I am now a changed person.
   
  Victim doesn't have to mean that you are weak and stuck in the moment.  Being a victim means that you have been violated or something was taken from you.  Both those things apply to me, and I will never be the same as I was before this, but I have survived it, and I am not letting that bastard rule my life.  I just have to work harder to be happy some times.  I have to talk myself through the bad times, and over come and survive the part of me that has been victimized.
   
  Thank you for this blog, Zayda.  To my sister survivors, thank you for sharing your thoughts on this.  It means a lot to me, and I am sure many others.

• jadestar said on Jun 28, 2007....

  thank you for sharing Sarafina, it sounds corny, but I really think you are brave

• silverwhisper said on Jun 28, 2007....

  sarafina, i'm so glad that you were able to bring your attacker to justice. i get to read of this happening so rarely and like jadestar, i too think that was brave.
  
  ed

• Sarafina said on Jun 28, 2007....

  Jadestar:  Thank you for your kind words.  I still don't feel I was brave, just thnking of my baby first.  It wasn't a thought, persay, but more instinct.  In the aftermath, I figured out that was what I was doing, if that makes sense.

  Silverwhisper:  My husband came home from work and immediately called the police.  I have to say, it was a hard process, going to the hospital, giving my statements, giving my clothes, having my house searched for any DNA, the court process, etc.  But this guy had a history, and I didn't want him to do this again.  I felt like throwing in the towel, but the ball was rolling too fast.  I am thankfull that he pleaded guilty, and I didn't have to go to trial.  I didn't even have to speak when he was sentanced, but that was my chance to get the last word in, my chance to show him that his actions have hurt people.  My statement was strong, and detailed, and although I cried through it too, it had a huge impact on everyone.  He got 2 years in jail, in addition to serving 4 months awaiting sentancing (which he was given 8 months credit) , he is on the sex offender regestry for 25 years, and has 3 years probabtion when he gets out.  I would have liked to see him behind bars for 5 years, but you get what you get.

  At least he was convicted.  That, on its own, brings me comfort.

• exhibit_c said on Jun 28, 2007....

  As a cancer victim/survivor/patient, I most dislike that others choose the label for me. The trope of referring to anyone with cancer as a survivor has bled the meaning from it.
  
  
  

• silverwhisper said on Jun 28, 2007....

  sarafina: i'm appalled at the lightness of that sentence, esp with a history, but more importantly, it sounds to me like you're healing.
  
  ed

• tbs230 said on Jun 28, 2007....

  Well, this is a mighty fine topic to respond today, but...
  
  I think that a survivor is someone who has learned how to deal with rape and function daily. The word victim just draws a blank for me. Because I have yet to hear someone say I am a victim.
  
  What would you call someone who has lived a normal life for years only to then remember the trauma? I understand that the logical path is victim => survivor...but can a survivor become a victim of the same abuse? If so, how can you really consider her past the trauma?
  
  Am I even making sense?
  
  I was molested as a child, and I grew up with these people without a care until I was 17. When the memories came back, it was as if I was reliving it again. I have no closure, I have no outlet, I have not moved on. Does that make me a victim?
  
  Can there not be a middle ground?
  

• Sarafina said on Jun 28, 2007....

  TBS:  Wow.  I can't imagine how that must have felt.  The betrayal, the pain, the loss, the violation, just to name a few feelings that pop into my head.  I am so sorry they did that to you.  I hope you can find it within you to have them arrested.  I found the entire court process frustrating, but in the end it gave me such closure. 

  And as for your last question, I think there can be a middle ground.  I think that is what I was trying to say, without being successfull.  I feel I am a victim.  I feel I am a survivor.  Some days, more of one than another.  Sometimes both. 

  I don't think there is a right or wrong answer.  Its how the person that was attacked feels.  Some feel victim weakens them and survivor empowers them.  Others may feel that survivor minimizes their trauma, and insinuates they were never victims.

  Hugs to you TBS.

  SILVER:  Here in Canada, if you are sentanced to more than 2 years (even a day more), when you are released and that is it, no parole, no obligations, you have served your time and you are done.  IF you get 2 years less a day, or anything less than that, the criminal is given probation terms for a set amount of time.  In my case, the most they could probably get would be 3 years, based on presidence, history, severity, the details surrounding my case, etc., and no probation.  This way, as I have rationalized it, is he is getting 2 years, plus he has to follow the probation rules for 3 years.  That is 5 years that he can't piss the wrong way wtihout going back to jail.  Not good enough in my books, but it was a compromise.  If he didn't plead guilty, it would have meant a trial.  And here, we have a pre-trial, and then the real trial, and I would have had to testify at both.  I don't think I was up to that much of an ordeal.

  As for healing.... yes, I think I am.  But I also think that life moving faster around me than my thoughts of the crime has something to do with it, if that makes sense.

  You are such a nice guy silver.  :)

• boyzmom said on Jun 28, 2007....

  I think there is a middle ground, like Sarafina said above, both terms apply but the amounts at any given time vary. I have known victims of domestic violence that have had broken bones and various injuries, but they survived, even though they will not forget. They will look at their children and see the fear in their eyes for years to come. They will deal with children that are violent as a result of seeing violence in the home for years to come. The children are victims and they will move on and they will be survivors of the emotional trauma but they will always be victims.  I believe a victim is merely someone who was not in control of a situation at that point in time, someone who was attacked. A survivor overcomes to some point but do they really recover 100%?

• Actorguy said on Jun 28, 2007....

  Feels strange to weigh in with a male persective but I do have some knowledge of the subject:
   
  Years ago I was part of a theatre group working under a grant from the Ontario Women's Directorate.  We put together a play - really a collection of scenes and monologues - about rape and sexual assault.  We toured this show to about 20 different locations, mostly rural, and the object was to educate women about rape. After the show, we stayed around, sometimes for hours to answer questions and listen. This part of the show was handled by two amazing women from "Women in Crisis" an organization that, among other things, runs a rape/sexual assault hotline. We, the cast, stayed and answered the odd question but mostly served as listeners and witnesses.
   
  During this phase, we heard many "rape confessions", this strange term refers to women who have been raped and never told anyone, sadly this is much more common than we might hope to believe.  We also heard many "rape discoveries",  women who just "remembered" they had been raped.  The experience of tbs230 is not unusual.
   
  This show affected and changed me in so many ways that maybe it is the subject for a future blog, I've gotten way too carried away here.  This show has been brought to the forefront of my mind because of the horrific experience of my niece, in many ways my daughter, Sarafina.  I'm sure that one of her initial thoughts was not to tell anyone, that she was afraid people would think that she had somehow asked for it or deserved it or wanted it.  Fortunately, the people that love her were able to convince her that she needed to call the police, that she needed to continue with the court appearances and if necessary the trial.  That she needed to get this bastard off the street.  We're so proud of her.
   
  Boy for a guy who doesn't comment much, I sure have gone on!  Anyway, to answer the question. I think that every victim of rape or sexual assault is initially just that, a victim.  Some choose to shuck off their victimhood and become survivors.  I applaud the ones who do and understand the ones who don't.

• husbandhater said on Jun 28, 2007....

  Victim:has something done to them(Past tense pretense)
  Survior:has risen above something,conquered it and moved on(present tense)
  I don't know if I refer to myself as a victim Zayda But I survived it twice in my life and I am stronger for it. I will take into account what you have said here today about the words Victim vs Surviver Z. THANKYOU FOR GIVING ME ANOTHERVIEW OF THIS !
   
  I just read some of your statements. Sarafina, You make me proud and you also TBS. Tbs you have moved on to some extent,you are living life and presuing higher education. Sarafina is right it never really goes away but it becomes easier to live with!

• husbandhater said on Jun 28, 2007....

  Excellent post by the way Z. You always keep us thinking professor even throught the tears:~)

• the_infernal_optimist said on Jun 28, 2007....

  I think all points here are valid.
  
  My experience is twofold. I was molested by a friend's father when I was young, and nobody believed me. In high school, an older boy came to my house to discuss something with me and ended up trying to rape me.
  
  That they both walk free today is the only part of any of it that can make me feel powerless at times.
  
  I consider myself a survivor. I am healed (as much as one ever can be), in that I can trust men wholeheartedly (though there are only a few that applies to), and I have a rich marital sex life (I wondered if I would ever let anyone touch me again, much less actually learn to enjoy sex).
  
  Also, in a twisted way, these experiences - just as all of the lowest/worst moments of my life - have given me something I otherwise would not have: the ability to share and help others who have gone through similar events. I'll certainly never be glad that this stuff happened to me or anyone else, but every moment leads up to the present, and in light of that, I wouldn't undo anything in my past. I am stronger overall because I survived these experiences.
  
  A victim, by contrast (IMO), would only be diminished by his or her experiences.
  
  ~Infernal
  

• LadyGamer said on Jun 28, 2007....

  Because I let it define me for so long, I agree with the definition of victim as one who does so.

  And now I am a survivor. I do not let fear define me.

   

  It's an interesting coincidence that you posted this today, Z. Just an hour ago, my ex, who's brutal attack I have blogged about here, said to me "I am NOT avoiding my kids. I'm avoiding you. You scare the shit out of me."

   

   

• silverwhisper said on Jun 29, 2007....

  sarafina: as i said, i've known too many friends who've been through it. but thank you.
  
  LG: i've always thought of you as a survivor.
  
  ed

• lfbno7 said on Jun 30, 2007....

  i never learned what it's like to be victimized by someone physically.  the only things i have really been victimized by physically are kidney stones.  damn, they hurt.  they make you wish you were dead and safely out of it.  nothing feels better than morphine.
  
  a dear friend of mine was kidnapped, beaten up and raped repeatedly when she was 15.  the guy knew her family and called her mother while he was doing it, to tell her that she'd never see her daughter alive again.  this man was locked away, and i believe they literally threw away the key.
  
  now she's grown up, in her 30s, and a confirmed lesbian.  she filed a sexual harassment suit against an employer who made a pass at her, and quit that job.  she's been permanently damaged by the incident that happened half a lifetime ago for her.  she has male friends but she hates men.  the one thing she can't forgive, in a person, is if the person is male.  she'd forgive anything else.
  
  it's kind of tough being her friend for two reasons.  one, i'm a guy.  two, i love her.  that's a bit of tough shit for me, isn't it.
  

• rmuxagirl said on Jun 30, 2007....

  I like how Sw made the distinction in thoughts of victim and survivor.   Being raped actually made me a stronger woman and for that I'm somewhat thankful (not for the experience, but the strength).

• Trinov said on Jun 30, 2007....

  I think that 'victim' and survivor are stages. But that it is better for the girl or woman or boy to think of herself/himself as a victim then as the one who provoked the attack. Being a survivor means I, you, have conquered the pain, fear etc....... When I was 12 years old I was molested by an uncle by marriage. It traumatized me, I felt that everyman was wanting to do the same thing, I was almost crazy in a type of paranoia for half a year, but nobody knew it. My family did know of the experience. and my father's extended family held a trial (we are from the Mountain Jews of the Caucauses and families were there own law there and somehow when they got to America they didn't realize that they had anyone else to consult), they decided that there were extenuating circumstances, otherwise I was told, they would have simply killed him..... I never forgave him in his lifetime, but many years later I could forgive the shmuck at his gravesite. I am sure he got his 'upstairs'. I was able to relive the trauma in a drama exercise that we had when I was in the kibbutz drama school. It helped me get rid of the nightmare and start becoming a survivor. I've had other violent encounters which I was able to fend off one way or another, some by tricking the attacker and some by attacking back. But the most important thing to tell a 'victim' is that you are not the one guilty.

• lfbno7 said on Jun 30, 2007....

  were you told what the extenuating circumstances were?  did anything happen to him?

• Trinov said on Jul 01, 2007....

  To Ifbno7 --was I told? not really. My mother said something about their 'marriage'. And I realize now that he was not bright, maybe had a 90 IQ. He died, possibly early, my aunt outlived him by 30 years, was married again, lived to 90 and had a younger lover until then--we're usually a longlived family!..... Only after this happened it was explained to me what should have been explained previously, not to be alone with an non-related (blood related) male. There is a concept called 'yichud' or 'being alone' in Jewish law-that it is dangerous for a woman to be alone, in a place without public access, with anyone besides her father, husband, brother or son....The other concept is that rape is equivalent to murder in that the woman is considered as innocent unless she had been in an area where she could have gotten help....what happened to me was not rape, but it was terribly upsetting as a 12 year old, who didn't totally understand the facts of life, even though I had read some very sophisticated literature (the Lisistrata for example) but I was clueless about reality.

• lfbno7 said on Jul 01, 2007....

  Isn't it a shame that young girls can't be safe with male relatives.  I read a book on this subject a few years ago.  The same exact thing.  It was a true story, not a novel, and it was about a family in which the young girls weren't safe with their uncles.  It was also about a lot of other things as well.  I wish I remembered the name of it.

• husbandhater said on Jul 04, 2007....

  Isn't it a shame that some men can't control their hormones for 10 seconds while a woman of any age is in their presents? Isn't it ashame that they want us to cover up our entire body so that their lustful eyes and thoughts don't push them to attack us. There is a thing called selfcontrol, I wish they could find the strength and an excuse to exercise some.

• queenparanoia said on Jul 06, 2007....

  zayda a victim is someone who lives in the past and let it control her future.

  a survivor is someone who let's go of her past and takes charge of her future...

  youre a survivor zayda. remember that. a strong one if i might say...

• silverwhisper said on Jul 07, 2007....

  HH: it's not about sex. it's about power and control.
  
  ed

Comment on "Victim or Survivor: What's the Significance?"

Currently tagged	Survivor perspective victim rape victim survivor middle ground triumph (Click to add tags below)
Tag this post	(Separate tags using commas, for example: New York, dating, vegetarian)
Your comment