• maggie02mae said on Jul 18, 2006....

  Maybe you should ask a priest about that. I don't know the ins and outs of annulments, but I'm sure there is special care when it comes to abuse, alcoholism, and even drug addiction. I think, though, that the basic reasoning is this: marriage is not just a legal document in the church's eyes. It is a sacrament - holy. It is an unbreakable union of two souls who promise to love each other eternally. Love is no matter what. And, really, love is only real when it demands you to give of yourself entirely for the beloved, without anything in return. Look, the church wants you to realllllly be serious about marriage before you do it. It's a HUGE committment. If you aren't really ready for "For better or for worse," when why make the committment? We have to be accountable for our promises. The church has always been clear about that. And hell, Lord knows we're bad at keeping our word. I'm glad the church is there to keep us accountabl. I know all that makes me sound insensitive. Don't get me wrong. I don't think there is any situation in which a spouse was being abused where I would tell him or her to stay. If you're being abused, get the hell out as soon as possible. BUt tell me, honestly. Do you think that our merciful and loving God would ever want you to stay in a situation like that? I don't. I honestly don't know how the church would handle it. But, I'm sure as hell not going to make assumptions, and say that your marriage can't be annuled. I HATE hearing people throw out generalizations about my church as if none of it's members have brains or hearts. Anyway...as for the part about how a priest can "judge" the validity of a divorce. Well, annulment is a process involving a lot of people. It's not your parish priest who make these important decisions. And, well, shit -- they're people. They had parents, they have friends, they've more than likely had girlfriends. THey aren't idiots -- they're human beings. I'm sorry, but I think that is just a ridiculous claim. Should there be no male gynecologists? No unmarried and childless social workers? Should veterinarians be required to own every type of animal? Should pediatricians be required to have children? Well, the main point is that the priests are NOT there to judge (EVER), they are there to help. They are there to council, they are there to listen and facilitate. And finally "and allow the divorced to attend their church, but not take part in communion." Church doctrine has always said that you do not have to physically receive communion to receive its graces. By simply being present at mass and the celebration of the eucharist, you receive Jesus. You get as much of, and the same kind of grace that you get when you eat and drink Jesus. The church cannot and will not ever withold graces from someone. The church can't! God alone gives those. I would much rather receive the eucharist in my body than from my presence, but I understand why these "rules" are there. We are receiving God. GOD. Holy, sacred, amazing. Communion is not something we take lightly. We believe that we are receiving Jesus Christ himself. And, none of us, divorced or not, should take him into ourselves if we are not worthy -- If we haven't prepared ourselves for his presence. That has always been so. What will it take for the world to get off the Catholic church's back? We don't force anyone to believe or be a part of the church. All here are willing. We take our faiths seriously, and to do that means living in certain ways, faithful to certain standards. If you don't like it, find a different church. But, at least try to understand our reasons with an open and loving heart. We're founded on love. We're here for love. If its not for you, it's not for you. Just let us be. There are plenty of other horrible institutions and situations (how about poverty, and social injustice in other countries) that are causes more worthy of your (plural, not specifically you, soldier) time. sorry for venting. it's tiresome. I don't judge other people's religious beliefs that I find confusing. I rejoice in their unique experience of the Divine. Rules and traditions, conservatism -- they're ok, really! Maybe not ideal, but they're ok.

• lidstrom82 said on Jul 18, 2006....

  Man, this is rough. Catholic (and other denominations) traditions, when taken over the Word of God in the Bible, is a slippery slope. I learned that being part of the Lutheran Church - yes, Scripture does say that anyone who divorces and remarries commits adultery, but many are also forgiven for committing adultery. The point is, if the Bible extends grace to adulterers in their sin, the church should too - not cut off the benefits of communing with God because of tradition.

• anonyme said on Jul 19, 2006....

  Well put lidstrom82! Once again, the church or religion puts their interpretation or 2cents worth into how they think stuff should go down. Which I can understand interpretation. More of a reason why there are so many different religions etc. Someone at one time didn't like the same rules Catholicism has so they started their own and found many others with their same dislikes they call it Lutheran.

• SOLDIERCIPSWIFE said on Jul 19, 2006....

  maggie02mae-I appreciate your feedback. I see you put a lot of time and thought into it. Thank you My point is how can Jesus forgive our sins...the Catholic church believe in Jesus and yet the Catholic church not forgive us for divorce? You are so right that it is our decision what church to attend to...that I agree. I do understand that marriage is sacred and believe me that when I said my vows, at the time I meant until death do us part. For 12 years I tried like nobody to make it work. But I ask you...does God really want us to be miserable, to fight, to let our children see the hatred that 2 people have for each other, the destruction...or does he want us to be happy and healthy and raise our children in a positive environment? I believe my children are in a much better place, I know that I am... My point is our sins are to be forgiven....Period. I never remember reading that Jesus had a list of specific sins that could not be forgiven. Afterall, I don't think choosing a better life for me and my children is worse than molesting young boys within a church or committing murder...and those sins are forgiven. Thank you for your input...like I said I really appreciate the time you took to write it. Have a good week!

• maggie02mae said on Jul 19, 2006....

  SCW- I am a senior at a Jesuit college, majoring in Theology. I'm as Catholic as they get, but I suppose if I had to label myself, I'd be more liberal than conservative, though I try to keep myself in check, and somewhere floating in the middle of both those extremes. But, my point is, I am 100% committed to the Catholic church -- for life. I guess, what I'm trying to say that I am a true blue Catholic, and I still think that if you are in conversation with Christ, and feel in your heart that you are at peace with your situation -- divorced, seperated, or otherwise -- then you have EVERY right to know/say/feel/ reconciled. You [u]are[/u] reconciled. I agree with you. Ultimately, it comes down to you and God. The God I know is kind and merciful, full of compassion, rich in forgiveness. Yes, God only wants happiness. I don't think you should feel guilty about being divorced [b]at all[/b]. I also don't think that you or your husband should feel at all guilty if you or he were to receive communion (except I don't think you're Catholic, in which case you shouldn't receive yet! :-)). Heck, look at Jesus' example! He followed laws and rules, but he healed people on the Sabbath, even though he wasn't supposed to do "work" on that day. Sometimes there are more important things than following the rules. The church does its best, but as intelligent, faithful people, I [i]know[/i] that we are called to make that same kind of judgement call, just like Jesus did. I think divorce definitely fits into that category. The church has to have standards and rules, and if it takes itself at all seriously, it has to stick by them. But, when you are in the business of peoples lives and souls, there are ALWAYS special circumstances and exceptions. I think that one of the most dreadful misconceptions about the Catholic church is that there is no room for exceptions. My sister, there is. I hope that this issue doesn't cause you any more grief. Respect the church, respect its dignity, and above all respect yourself and your relationship with Christ. It all comes down to Christ in the end, and only [b]you[/b] can know what Christ is saying to you. I'm sorry that my other post was a bit...okay a LOT..hmm zealous. I got a little carried away! I hope that if you ever want to discuss other theological/religious things that you feel comfortable asking me -- I am more than happy to discuss. I learn the most when I am in dialogue with others. And, I wish you, your kids, and your husband the best! I hope you have the courage to work through the difficulties you are having with religion. I'll keep you in my prayers! -maggie

• SOLDIERCIPSWIFE said on Jul 20, 2006....

  Maggie-You made my day. Thank you so much for all of your compassionate words. I love my life...I wish at times I would have made better decisions, however I have always tried really hard to do what is right and to be loving and forgiving and soooooooooo understanding towards others. It is so wonderful to here from someone as committed as yourself. I feel the worst for my husband who's only fault was loving and marrying me and my son. You are right about me not being Catholic, but I know that if it wasn't for Jesus, I would not have the blessed life I do. He ALWAYS COMES THRU FOR MY FAMILY...ALWAYS!!!!! He has not let me down yet and that is what keeps my faith so strong. He has given me many challenges, but has never made me take them on myself. Thank you for the prayers...I can ALWAYS use them!!!

• maggie02mae said on Jul 21, 2006....

  You are certainly blessed to have such a wonderful husband! It breaks my heart to think about him going to war. I hope he stays safe. But, like you said, Jesus always comes through -- that I am certain of. I wish you all the strength you need to get through these tough times!

• twist said on Jul 28, 2006....

  let me try it one more time, Soldiercipswife, I left a comment on your other blog of the same subject. There are different ways to look at this: 1. as an atheist, in which case nothing matters, because you do not believe in God - and if God does not exist, what does it matter, and if He does exist, it doesn't matter, because you have chosen not to be one of His children. 2. as a religious person, which is someone who is hung up with a religion and the rules thereof. I was raised in church, didn't believe most of what I was taught, mostly because it did not make a lot of sense, when I was 16 I stopped attending services and a few years later I was honest enough to admit to myself, that I was really an agnostic. But then, due to my first wife's illness and death at the tender age of 36 I did some serious soul-searching, and by the grace of God through circumstances which are too long and involved to explain here, I found a relationship with Jesus, as my personal Lord and Savior, and now, as far as I am concerned, all those rules do not matter any more. The only thing that matters is, what does He think, and as for me, the Bible is very clear on everything we need to know to live a successful, happy life here on earth with the hope of eternal life. I was in a similar quandry. My first wife, the mother of my children, was catholic and I had promised with an oath on the Bible, that I would raise my children in the catholic faith, and when I was "saved" I broke that promise, because I now raised my children in an Assemblies of God church, that I happened to be attending. Now that they are all grown, the oldest is a Seventh Day adventist, the second one is a Baptist, and the youngest does not attend church, because he married a girl, who as far as I can tell, does not believe in God, or if she does, it is not obvious. To clarify let me say, that I believe that what the Bible teaches is that all you need to be eligible to spend eternity in Heaven is to believe in Jesus as your Lord and Savior. If you are interested, I'll be happy to give you 20 scriptures or more to substantiate that opinion. Other than that it does not matter, whether you are Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran or wherever you feel most at home. I haven't found anything in my Bible that says that you have to be this denomination or that. If your husband would like to take communion and cannot do it in a catholic church, maybe he would like to take it in another church. After all, communion is something we do to remember the great sacrifice Jesus brought to purchase our salvation, nothing more or less, and most churches I am familiar with have open communions, i. e. you do not have to belong to their group to be able to participate, you only have to profess faith in Jesus. By the way, Jesus said: What God has joined together, let no man separate (Mat. 19:6). Maybe God did not join you to your first husband. It is my understanding, that he is not such a nice guy, and just maybe, God was trying to tell you not to marry him, and you did anyway, but guess what? We all do, and that is why God is a forgiving God. Anyhow, this is not the unforgivable sin. I hope this makes sense, but if it doesn't let me know, and I'll try to be more clear. By the way I have several friends, who are catholic, and I think they are on their way to Heaven as well as any other person who has placed his/her faith in Jesus. May God bless you richly. It is not His will for us to be troubled, He wants us to have peace. It says in Rom. 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

• SOLDIERCIPSWIFE said on Aug 09, 2006....

  I would love any scriptures you would like to send my way. You sound like a man who feels blessed with what he has and I feel the same way. I have made mistakes, but I have always looked to Jesus and thanked him for what I have and asked forgiveness for what I know is wrong. I cannot change the fact I am divorced and my husband said he would like to attend another church also. Again showing how lucky I am to be married to such a brilliant and loving man. I too believe the same thing that you do and I am glad that I am not alone. Thank you so much for your kind words..you always seem to make my day and make me sit back and think. You seem to be a very honest and loving man and I thank you for taking the time to write me back.

• twist said on Aug 09, 2006....

  Hi, again, so glad you found my post and agree. Yes, I am blessed beyond description. But first things first - congratulations to your husband for his success before the Board. May it bring everything he hoped for. Below I quote a few scriptures, which I hope will set your mind at ease. I will mention a few comments about what jumps out at me, but I would like to suggest, that you read those verses yourself (and if you have time, the whole chapters), because faith comes from hearing the Word of God. Let me also mention that I believe very strongly that God does not like legalism. What matters to Him, I am sure, is our heart, not whether we have been divorced or have done anything else not pleasing to Him. That is just exactly, why Jesus had to be nailed to the cross. So, forget it, it is gone, washed away by His blood. To substantiate this point of view, please see 1. Cor. 6:9 - 11 "...neither fornicators, nor idolaters .....etc. will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you.... (what do you know? Paul is addressing people that had committed sins a whole lot worse than marrying the wrong guy. ..and then he goes on to say: "But you were washed, ...sanctified, ...justified in the name of the Lord Jesus.") Beyond any shadow of doubt our salvation does not depend on the church we happen to belong to. Every scripture I can find only mentions faith in Jesus as being important. So here are a few: John 3:16 for God so loved the world (God's love, not rules) John 3:3 ...be born again (condition for salvation, nothing else Eph. 2:8-9 (my favorite) for by grace you are saved through faith, ...it is the gift of God, not of works (like how and where or when you take communion), lest any man should boast. Do you notice, that God wants it to be a gift. All we have to do is accept it. That is how I understand Him. He does not expect us to obey rules. What He wants is for us to live Christ-like lives, because we want to, not because we are trying to follow certain rules. 2. Cor. 5:17 Any person in Christ is a new creature (in God's eyes) Acts. 16:31 Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved Rom. 5:8 Christ died for us, while we were sinners Rom. 6:23 ...the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Rev. 3:20 ..behold I stand at the door and knock... Rom. 10:9-10 confess with your mouth...and believe in your heart Isaiah 53:6 ...the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all Acts 4:12 ..there is no other name whereby we must be saved Titus 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us This should make it very clear: Mat. 7:21 says: Not everyone who says Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does the will of my Father... and then: John 6:40 explains: ...this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life, and I will raise him up at the last day. This is just a short selection of scriptures that I believe prove my confidence, that salvation does not under any circumstances depend on our behavior. It is not our behavior that makes us Christians or gets us into Heaven, that part is God's gift. The only thing that is expected of us is to accept such a generous gift. We have no idea of the value of this gift, because our finite mind cannot comprehend eternity, but someday we'll look back and think: What an incredible gift. How did I deserve this? If you meditate on it, you will have to come to the conclusion, that it cannot be any other way. On our own we can never make ourselves acceptable to a Holy God. The initiative has to come from Him. That is what persuaded me that there is only one Way to God, and I have found it. And He has confirmed it to me many times, and He will confirm it to you, also. Heather, from your blogs I have gathered that you have a marriage that is like one in a million. Chrerish it, read your Bible (I have found that the New Living translation is quite accurate and very readable), pray often and you will be blessed beyond measure. Since your husband is open to it, find a good church you are both comfortable with (and your older son, too), - this will also be a spiritual support during your husband's upcoming tour of duty. May God richly bless you (He will)

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