evil_twin's tags:

This morning I had a really interesting conversation with some people at work. There is this woman there and she’s having some relationship issues. I wasn’t really part of the conversation at first, but I sort of overheard stuff and decided to butt in. She was talking about how her boyfriend is always talking down to her and treating her like shit. He’s not affectionate and he doesn’t really like to kiss. In fact, sometimes when they have sex, he doesn’t even kiss her. And then I guess there is this other guy she used to date. He was the flowers and love notes type and he really wants to get back together with her. She’s torn about this and doesn’t know what to do.

The reason why I butted in was because I failed to understand where the dilemma was. On one hand, you have a prick who treats you like a prostitute basically. I mean, no kissing during sex?? That’s weird if you ask me. And on the other hand she has a guy who she admits will do anything for her and was always treating her like a queen. How hard should this decision be? That’s when she tells me, “but the nice guy is just TOO nice.” She likes assholes. A sensitive romantic man turns her off. She sees it as him being vulnerable and less manly. But a dipshit who treats her badly makes her feel like she’s with a REAL man and not a girly little puss.

To be quite honest, I was really confused by this. I thought women wanted men who were sensitive and romantic? Don’t they always complain that they don’t get enough romance in their lives? And here is this woman basically saying that a man like that is a total turn off. Is she just damaged and crazy or is this true? If it’s true, then maybe it explains a lot about my life and lack of success with women.

When I was growing up, my parents were sort of hippies. And they always encouraged me and my brother to show our emotions. My dad never once said to me that boys didn’t cry, or that I needed to toughen up and be a man. If something was bothering me, they wanted me to express that. My mom always said that if I was happy, there was no shame in laughing or smiling. So why should I feel shame in crying if something upsetting happened? Just because I was a boy, didn’t mean I wasn’t human. Of course, that doesn’t mean I’m an emotional wreck who cries over stupid shit. But I am an emotional person. And when I’m love, I freely admit that my brain turns to mush and I get a little sappy.

But now I’m hearing that some women don’t like that sort of thing. Would I really be more appealing if I was a prick? Would I get bad boy sex appeal points if I treated women crappier? It’s rather disconcerting to me that a woman might be turned off and think I was less of a man if I bought her flowers or did thoughtful things for her. But then again, a woman who felt like that probably would not be the woman for me anyway.  But have I been going about all of this wrong by wearing my heart on my sleeve? Sometimes I wonder. Maybe being nice isn’t such a good thing after all? It makes me think of that saying, “nice guys finish last.” Sadly, I think there’s some truth to that.



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Comments

  • uniquely-ironic said on May 25, 2007....
    Ain't life a bitch?  On one hand, if you're too nice you get walked all over, but if you're too mean you chase the girls away.
     
    I think the girl at work has some issues to work through.  It's possible that her father or some other major influence in her life was a jerk, and that is how she ends up thinking it's supposed to be.  Or, maybe she is just a sadist, I don't know.
     
    The girls worth having are the ones who recognize and expect a guy to treat her well.  These gals also realize that they too must treat their men well.  It's called mutual respect.
     
    This, of course, is my own humble opinion.  I also think that men who can express their feelings are the strongest type of man.
  • silverwhisper said on May 25, 2007....
    what u-i said, man. but there are of course always the women who think they deserve no better than to be treated like crap.

    ed
  • evil_twin said on May 25, 2007....
    uniquely-ironic--I agree that this woman must have some issues with men. I was just astounded that she'd admit that she liked a guy to treat her badly over a man who cherished her. In my head, things should be exactly what you said. I will treat my woman well, and I hope she will treat me well. That's supposed to be what love is about. At least in my world...

    silverwhisper--Why do some women feel that way, huh? I suppose there is no answer. Or rather, there are many answers because the reasons are always different. But it's sad to me. Not only is it self destructive for them, but it's detrimental to a nice guy like me finding someone!


  • uniquely-ironic said on May 25, 2007....
    Okay, I had a minute to think, and now I'd like to play devil's advocate.  Is it possible that this gal treats her men poorly, but plays it off that she is the victim?  I know how psycho that sounds, but the world is full of strange people.  Maybe the nice guy dumped her.
  • evil_twin said on May 25, 2007....
    uniquely, I don't know for sure. I've known this woman casually for two years, but we're not 'friends'. But I do know that she dumped the other guy because she 'wanted to figure some stuff out'. Whatever that means. And he wants to get back with her. He actually sent her a dozen roses yesterday at work, which was why she was having this crisis. But in terms of how she treats these guys, I just don't know. I do know she cooks and cleans and irons this guys shirts everyday. Mostly because I hear her griping about how underappreciated she is. But I don't really have any sympathy for her at this point. Not after today. Maybe she just likes to complain to her friends about her life? If she was with a nice guy, what would she gripe about? Something to ponder...
  • uniquely-ironic said on May 25, 2007....
    what a twisted sister.  Yuck!
  • allswell said on May 25, 2007....
    Evil t...I've lived my whole life being around men that think they have to be the "manly man" you know where it's the woman's job to wait on them, clean up after them, do the housework and romance....they don't know the meaning of it!  But this past year when I met my dad for the first time...I was shocked at how loving and romantic he was to his wife, and he waited on her...he actually.... waited on her!!  He helped her do housework....I just could not beleive men like that acually exist! I was in shock!... and I thought "I want that!"
     
    So personally I think the woman at your job is crazy!! We need more men in the world that are more like you! We need more "nice guys"....I could only hope to be lucky enough to one day....find me someone like that...find me someone like you!! 
     
    alls:)
  • rightwingwizard said on May 25, 2007....
    Your question is a natural one.  Sometimes it may seem that the 'nice guy' finishes last when in fact in his own mind he has finished quite well indeed.  The human species is of course the most complicated of all creatures because of the unpredictability of their responces to any given set of circumstances.  Men are no different than women in this respect.  I have known as many men who are attracted to women suffering from the 'evil bitch' syndrome as I have women attracted to men with the 'heartless bastard' syndrome.  I think some people seek out misery in order to satisfy their own predetermined conclusion that they are destined to be miserable.
     
    Be you!  That is the only advice I can give.  The right woman is out there for you, you just have to find her.  If you start to change yourself to conform with whatever seems more likely to succeed and lose yourself, you will never be happy.  From what I have read of your writings I believe that you know that.  Nice guys do not finish last if you understand that their goals are not necessarily to finish first at any cost.
     
    If you gain the girl but lose yourself in the process you have gained nothing.
     
    rww
  • mom said on May 25, 2007....
    Girls are stupid, there are those that go after the guys that treat them like crap, it is because they have low self esteem and the bad boys keep their girls in line.  If that type of girl was to go with a nice guy, then she would treat the guy the way the other guy treated her.  The nice guy wouldn't put her in her place, that is what she wants.  It isn't until years later and gone through enough creeps that a woman will be happy with someone who is nice. Nice guys finish last, but finish best.
  • evil_twin said on May 25, 2007....
    uniquely-ironic--It is a little twisted, isn't it? But I'm glad that the issue is probably with her, and not women as a whole. Thankfully.

    allswell--See, my father always doted on my mom. He would tell us that she was the Queen and anything she said goes. Plus, she was the only woman in a house full of men, so it was important to always help her out. My dad will cook and clean, but my mom actually seems to like doing it, so she never lets him! But I plan to be like my dad, whenever I get that opportunity. To me, it's just natural behavior. And I hope you find someone who treats you like that. You deserve it!

    rightwingwizard--You're very profound. I really liked what you had to say here. If I gain the girl, but lose myself, I've gained nothing. That's an awesome way to put it. I'm just going to wait for a woman who appreciates kindness and wants to be loved. That's what I want too.

    Mom--I think you're right. Low self esteem explains alot. And I like what you said about nice guys finishing best. I hope that's true.
  • allswell said on May 25, 2007....
    Thanks evil t...I hope so!
    alls:)
  • Eilan said on May 25, 2007....
    I agree with a lot of what's been said about women who choose the so-called bad boys because of their own issues.

    However, I tend to be suspicious of self-proclaimed "nice guys"; in all honesty, a lot of them aren't as nice as they think they are. 

    There's a guy on another site I frequent who's always on a "nice guys finish last" soapbox, and it gets on my nerves.  He strikes me as whiny, angry, and bitter and he's always ready to blame women because he can't get a date.  Maybe it's a chicken-egg issue--does he get rejected because he's bitter, or is he bitter because he gets rejected?  I don't know, but his whining makes him unattractive.

    Bottom line: If someone's truly nice, he won't need to advertise.  People will know.
  • Bluesnake said on May 25, 2007....
    Well, as a fan of David DeAngelo (the dating guru), he claimed that nice guys will always fail with women. Whenever guys kiss-ass women, it's a turn-off to women.
     
    But then again, you don't have to be a jerk or an abuser to be attractive to women.
     
    Instead you need to have an interesting personality to attract women. Women don't decide whether to like a man. Instead attraction comes in an instant - "ATTRACTION ISN'T A CHOICE".
     
    It's just that bad boys have a more interesting personality than nice guys. That's the reason women are attracted to bad boys. But then again...you don't really need to be a bad boy to be successful with women. The answer lies in your personality.
     
    Here's my idea:
    Nice guy = desperation
    Bad boy = He has his own life and adventure. He has a price.
     
    I dare to say this because I've seen it through.
  • evil_twin said on May 25, 2007....
    Eilan--Well, I really do hope I'm a nice guy. I certainly try to be. Am I perfect and totally free of making mistakes with women (or people in general)? No. Of course not. But the reason why I posted this was because I was totally blown away that a woman would choose a man who treated her badly, over a man who truly seemed to care about her feelings. And even if I'm not perfect, I know I'm better than this guy she's hung up on. And it's frustrating to be in the dating world and see men who don't really give a crap about the relationships they have, when I'm someone who's more than willing to put in the effort.

    Does that make me whiny? I dunno. But it definitely confuses me sometimes. I'm not placing blame on the entire female species though. Mostly, I just wanted to know if this was a common female consensus, or was this woman alone with her thoughts. You gotta admit that when someone tells you that they find a sensitive man less masculine, that I have a reason to be a little bothered by that. And I'm not bitter, so much as disillusioned.

    bluesnake--Nice guys equal desperation, huh? That's a depressing conclusion. But I've never had any problem attracting women, really. It's usually the keeping them around process I have trouble with. I guess I'm just not interesting enough.
  • allswell said on May 25, 2007....
    Bluesnake...I think your wrong! Bad boys are self centered jerks that only cares about themselves and what makes them happy...it's the bad guys...that most women don't find attractive!! 
     
     A good guy is what woman really want...someone that cares what they think, and puts the women first before themselves....it's just sad that the "bad boys" are so jealous of the "good guys" that they have to try to make them feel like they are "desparate" because they are that way!
     
    I'll pick the good guy first..any day!!
     
    alls  
  • anonymous said on May 25, 2007....
    I think it's low self-esteem.  I would honestly tell these women in a polite but firm manner something along these lines:

    "This man is not treating you with respect.  He doesn't see you as an equal.  He is trying to run your life.  Would you want a friend or relative to go through this?  You deserve better.  While you may feel responsible, that is misplaced blame and duty.  You are not at fault for his attitudes.  He'd do it to any other woman.  Get out of it.  You can't change him and you are wasting your time."
     
    A woman should not feel responsible for this type of guy.  It is better to be alone than to put up with this.  If he has been verbally abusive or physically-threatening to her, she should look into charges and/or a restraining order.  I am talking if it's threats and harassment here, not an insult.  But if he keeps coming around, do something about it.
  • queenparanoia said on May 25, 2007....
    you know i had a friend like her... she is smart, beautiful and everything a guy could want to a girl. yet she end up with an asshole. one time there was a nice guy who courted her a typical "nice" guy. yet she turned him down. i asked her about this and she said she wants a "bad"boy. i cant believe how stupid she is!!! considering she graduate magna cum laude!!! i was so shock when she told me this. stupid girls... if i have to choose between a bad boy or a nice guy... i'll choose the nice guy. the problem is nice guys goes to stupid girls.... do you see the pattern here???
  • Eilan said on May 25, 2007....
    FWIW, I've read a lot of your posts, and you don't strike me as whiny.
  • cakebottom said on May 25, 2007....
    No woman I know actually wants a "bad boy" who treats her like crap.  Sure, that edgy, dangerous thing can be sexy, but when you're imagining that guy, you don't think of him as a jerk....he just turns out that way.  Bad boys seem dangerous, adventurous, and fun.  A woman who's attracted to bad boys isn't ready for what nice guys have to offer, so you're better off leaving them alone, or they'll treat you like shit and make you think that nice guys finish last.  Sometimes bad boy chasers get frustrated with the evils of the bad boy and try to date a nice guy, but if they haven't gotten bad boys out of their system, it'll never work out for the nice guy.

    The truth is, nice guys don't finish last, they have lasting relationships.  Nice guys treat women with respect.  When they're ready for that, the women will come.  There is a fine line though between being a nice guy and being a pussy-- you can't let yourself become so nice that people use and abuse you.  You will finish last if you let women treat you like shit.  Find the girls who appreciate a good guy.

  • minniemouse said on May 25, 2007....
    You know what?  Don't worry about if your being too nice, not nice enough, an ass or whatever!   Just be yourself!  If you have to act and not show your real self, you aren't going to find a genuine relationship.  Anyone who wants you to change is the wrong person for you.  To me, its a strong man that knows when to show his tender side, yet knows when we want you to be strong.....that to me is sexy.  MM
  • hotaka said on May 25, 2007....
    evil, nice guys only finish last when they are in the wrong race. Like you said, if the girl is turned off by kindness and affection then she's not your type anyway. I used to finish last in my younger days. The girls wanted the older guys who were jerks. Now that I am older I am appreciated too much sometimes. Sometimes the nice guys have to be careful how nice they are. A woman longing for such a man may suddenly get ideas. 
  • Bluesnake said on May 25, 2007....
    So the question is why women always say they want a nice guy but they end up attracted to a sexier bad boy? Why?
  • Boonsketti said on May 26, 2007....

    Yes, they do. We live in a dark and terrible age, where young minds are warped by network television and Hollywood. Today I was at the pool and saw these little elementary school kids talking about hooking up and getting laid. There was a sweet looking girl who was heavy on the other side of the pool. "Have you ever made out with anyone yet?" one kid yelled. Another one said "who the fuck would make out with a beast?" And then they laughed. It made me sick - I tried to ignore them. Elementary schoolkids. And yeah, the nice shy kids who respect the wishes of their parents and teachers will finish dead last in this sick race. The meek shall not inherit the earth, only the assholes. I found out that two of my friends had a contest to see who could fuck more girls at a particular party a couple days ago. This sick, narrow, MTV conditioned thinking makes me want to go throw up.

  • Boonsketti said on May 26, 2007....
    I apologize, I didn't tie this in neatly with your post. My quasi-point is: for a short period in America in the 1960's, a small minority of people decided to try and do away with the bullshit, and for about five or six years, it was beautiful and it sort of worked. Then it all came crumbling down, beacuse it wasn't organized, they didn't have guns, the Squares looked at it and winced, it was an aberration, it was strange and unique and too fucking imperfect and beautiful and human - it was a threat! so the Institution grabbed it, strangled it, filed it away, and put barbed wire and concrete on everything to reinforce against any of this terrible bullshit ever happening again. I am overjoyed to hear that you were raised by hippie parents, but their rules don't apply here anymore, I recommend that you run the fuck away, as I am planning to! One way to ensure that nobody will ever get smart revolutionary ideas is through incredible amounts of distractive propaganda, and this is done through network television, and as far as they can control it, the internet, but thank god for an open-source internet. If they get that too, we're really fucked. What am I trying to say here? If nice guys didn't finish last in past generations, they sure as hell do now for mine. What is the easiest way to control people? By making them feel like they are missing out on something and acting as the agent for that particular something. That is one of the fundamental tenets of seduction. We're all chasing sex and we can't really get enough because most of us are all so goddamn alienated from one another, unless you're married, and that's a WHOLE different bag I won't touch here. So we turn to Fergie and her bouncing ass, and girls doll themselves up to attract bad boys in the image of Snoop, Dre, etc. Having a "bad boy" elevates your social status as a woman in America - it means that you are desirable, feminine, powerful; which is ironic, because these women are playing right into the hands of the Institution. This whole mindset is the brainchild of the media conglomerate, of which there are only a few major outlets in America - the guy in charge of Fox is directly related to President Bush. Is this setting off any alarm bells in anyone's head yet? For some reason I don't think it is because we're all busy getting dolled up and making fun of beautiful fat girls who have nothing to be ashamed of; and by doing so, by putting other people down, we are elevating our social status in the eyes of other people, enhancing our images as badasses, and in effect are (within the constraints of this particular society) going to have the opportunity to get laid more by girls who want badasses so they can feel feminine - why? Because they've been watching Fergie shake her ass and rap about how much fucking jewelry she's getting from these guys who she's playing. I won't even lie, that ass looks beautiful, and there it is, shaking in front of me in High Definition. God bless America, land of the free and home of the brave. Hope I answered your question.
     
    And for the record, I think that Zach de la Rocha is much more of a man than Shaquille O'Neal; but who the hell else is going to agree with me on that one, Shaq is on TV more.
  • anonymous said on May 26, 2007....
    nice post dude. keep it up
  • leyhay said on May 26, 2007....
    hey eviltwin, i think there is some truth to it, but i dont think its usually quite as extreme as this woman you're talking about - thats crazy. if a guy treated me like that, he would be out right away. but i did once date a guy that was just far too nice - within a week, he was telling me he loved me and wanted to go on holiday together and was constantly calling me and stuff. it just got a little suffocating, so as far as that, yeah, some guys can be far too... overwhelming. BUT on the other hand, i wouldnt complain if a guy i was dating bought me flowers every now and again, told me they'd do anything for me and wasnt afraid to express their emotions. that's a different kind of nice. that's a good nice :)
  • rmuxagirl said on May 26, 2007....
    See I'm the type of girl that likes the nice sensitive guy, but can't seem to find any.  They all seem nice in the beginning, but end up being pricks and jerks.  I did have one guy who treated me very well, but I just wasn't attracted to him.

    I want a guy who's romantic and sensitive and somewhat old fashion, like calling to ask me out every now and then talking to the dad before he takes me out, walks me to the door...etc.  I just can't seem to find that here and not willing to move unless I met someone special.
  • gingersoul said on May 26, 2007....

    Evil.....in sex like in drinking it takes balance. To have a percfect cocktail you have to have the perfect balance between alchohol. If one prevails its a nasty concoction.

    So in sex and romance and relationship.

    I wouldn't even divide between boys and girls. Because the same thing its applied to men: how come that many of them go after the ass-shaking, fake boobs- flashing kind of girl BUT they marry the nice girl instead?

    Same stuff for girls then. Girls can be attracted by the bad boys package: adventure, headaches, drama, competition, no pain no gain attitude, possible exstasy in bed (if any) but at the end they want to be with a intelligent, sensitive, nice guy.

    Then IF the good boy has also sexual chemistry...voila...a perfect couple is born.

    Problem is many nice boys are afraid to dig in their "dark" side. And many nice girls are afraid to do the same.

    This fear can have many reason, first of all the primary relationship with our parents, specially the one with the opposite sex. Freud has said  a bunch of bullshit in other department but in this case he got it rigth: for a girl the father figure is fundamental in their future relationship with men. In a more prosaic but poetic way, John Mayer said the same with his song "Daughters"...very beautiful......he warns the fathers to be be nice with their daughters .....

    Balance is a rare find in matter of relationship. Something is always missing or overpowering.

    I honestly have to say i had many bad boys (with a surprising inner softness when you knew them better) as occasional lovers and nice guys with layered complicated personalities as long time partners. I married a quite perfect combination of nice-bad boy. It has been a Doctor Jeckill-Mr. Hyde kind of experience at the end but..... hey, nobody is perfect, right? ....lol...

    If you had seen him from the outside he could have been the perfect manifesto for the good All American Guy. But he had his dark side. Luckily, he acted it out.  And it has been this combination to intrigue me and kept me attracted to him after so many years. I did the same for him.

    At the end his dark side took over though and as a results i am now divorced....but again...c'est la vie....

    Evil....you are a nice guy. I can sense from the way toy write and the topic you choose.

    Dont change. Be yourself. You will find the right person for you. And if you chase the wrong type of girl changing your nature for having her would be the biggest mistake you can make. .....I agree with Rightwingwizard and Hotaka here...

    Boonsketti...i like many of the things you said.......

    Rmuxa...maybe Evil is your nice guy!!...lol........you too will find the right one for you...simply be the beautiful one you are...{hug}.  

  • evil_twin said on May 26, 2007....
    allswell--I'm glad you said that. Honestly, I was a little discouraged after I read some of the previous comments. At least I know it's actually possible for a good guy to be interesting!

    anon #1--I'm with you. But I also don't feel like in this particular case, I have enough of a relationship with this woman to really tell her something like that. We're co-workers, and even if we are friendly, we're not 'friends'. And as far as I know, this guy isn't physically threatening. He's just a jerk. But I've never actually met him before. I only go by what I've heard her saying.

    queenparanoia--Well, I guess this attraction is pretty common then. But I'm glad to see that you're looking for a nice guy! And maybe I'm guilty for falling for the wrong girls in the past? Obviously they were wrong for me, because they're not here anymore. But I just want someone who sees me for who I am, and actually likes that person.

    Eilan--Thank you. I sure hope I'm not!

    cakebottom--I think you're right. There is a line when a person becomes too nice. I don't ever want to be a doormat. That's not attractive any way you look at it. But I sure do hope there is a nice woman who will actually appreciate my finer qualities, without abusing them. And who will overlook my less than perfect points too. I gotta hope that the good outweighs the bad!

    minniemouse--You're absolutely right. I want to find someone who loves me for me. I don't want to pretend to be a badass if I'm not. But I'm not a little wuss either. I like to think that I'm a strong person, and I enjoy being 'the protector'. But some women don't want that. It's just a matter of finding the person who's needs match my qualities and my personality.

    hotaka--Yeah, if a woman doesn't like a nice guy, then she won't want to be with me anyway.

    bluesnake--That was my question exactly. I'm not saying you're wrong with your ideas, because you're probably not. There does have to be a reason. But I just hope that not all women feel that way.

    boonsketti--You do have some interesting points. And that stuff about the elementary school kids is really disturbing. Why the rush to grow up so fast? But yeah, alot of my parents ideals (and my ideals) don't fit with society today. But I refuse to believe that there isn't still good people in this world, looking for other good people. I might be delusional, but I can't give up hope!

    anon #2--Thanks!

    leyhay--I will admit that I've been guilty of doing exactly what you described there. When I really like someone, I tend to go overboard. It's just because I'm so into them, that I want to spend as much time as possible with them. But I do know it's suffocating at times, so that's something I've worked on with myself. But I always sort of wondered, if the other person was as into me, as I was into them, would it feel suffocating? Wouldn't they be happy that I wanted to spend time with them if they really liked me? I always took it as a sign that the relationship was one sided anyway. Not that I don't recognize my behavior as a contributing factor...but I am curious if the woman's lack of enthusiasm for me, was the reason it felt so suffocating.

    rmuxagirl--I'm glad to see you're looking for a nice guy! And I do hear quite alot that they are hard to come by. Which I guess is why I wrote this post in the first place. I hear women complaining that there are no good men, yet, I'm standing right here. And they'll pass me (and guys like me) over for a jerk. But I admit I'm not quite as nice as the type of guy you're looking for. I've never asked a woman's father for permission to date someone. In fact, most of the girls I've dated casually, I never even met their families. But I do walk people to their doors and pay for stuff and offer my jacket if they're cold...I'm a little old fashioned, but not entirely!
  • evil_twin said on May 26, 2007....
    Gingersoul--It took me so long to post my comment, that yours appeared after I was done! But I think what you said about your parents influencing your behavior towards the opposite sex is true. I do tend to treat women the way I treated my mom, and the way my dad treated my mom. And that was to treat her like a queen. Maybe that's a problem in some ways, though? Maybe I put the object of my affection on too much of a pedestal?

    But even if I am a sensitive soul, everyone does have a darker side. Just like you said. No one is sunshine and light all the time. But I do try to keep that side of me hidden, simply because I feel like it should be. But to be clearer, I'm not a secret serial killer or anything! But I do get in moods where I'm just no fun to be around. And usually, that's when I go away and hide until it gets better. I want people to always think I'm happy and well adjusted, so as not to mar their image of me.
  • Boonsketti said on May 26, 2007....
    @gingersoul:

    Quote: "I honestly have to say i had many bad boys (with a surprising inner softness when you knew them better) as occasional lovers and nice guys with layered complicated personalities as long time partners. I married a quite perfect combination of nice-bad boy. It has been a Doctor Jeckill-Mr. Hyde kind of experience at the end but..... hey, nobody is perfect, right? ....lol...At the end his dark side took over though and as a results i am now divorced....but again...c'est la vie...."

    Quote from rmuxagirl: "I did have one guy who treated me very well, but I just wasn't attracted to him."

    *shakes head*
  • amyispretty said on May 26, 2007....
    Only women who are screwy in the head would pick someone who treats them shitty over someone who treats them well. 
     
    On the other hand, a lot of women are screwy in the head.  I don't have a lot of female friends, mainly b/c they are self-destructive drama queens. 
  • Holly-Go-Lightly said on May 26, 2007....

    *evil*

    if you decided to be a "prick", as you call it,you may

    get some attention from girls, but the question is...

    what kind of girls???

    I say, I hope you stay your sweet, sensitive self.

    I think the perfect combination in a man is one who

    is strong (not just physically--emotionally) and at the

    same time, sensitive, caring. You know, a REGULAR

    human being. Your parents did a great job. That's the way

    I taught my sons as well. They too are not wimps, but they

    respect the girls they go out with, and would never force

    themselves on a girl, or physically hurt her in any way.

    To be truthful, I haven't met a genuine "nice guy" in a long

    time. It seems people around my age group are still into

    proving how macho they are. Arrogant, self-centered, and

    rude.  Its nice to hear that nice guys are a live & well, I just

    need to move to another state to find one!!  LOL

    *Holly*

  • evil_twin said on May 26, 2007....
    amyispretty--I do wonder if some girls are happier to have drama in their lives. It's like, if they have nothing to complain about, they have nothing to say period. That's what keeps them going. And also, I think some of them mistake drama for passion. They enjoy fighting with their boyfriends, because the making up is so hot. I understand that to some degree, but at the same time, can you really keep that sort of thing up forever? Maybe some people can, but not me.

    holly--Thanks for your comments. I don't wanna be a prick. In fact, I don't think I could be if I tried. Well, yeah, I could. But why would I try to do that, right? And of course I like to appear tough and macho to a point, but I won't cross the line into asshole territory. I want women to think I'm strong and worthy, but also that I'm sweet and caring too. And frankly, if people equate masculinity with being a jerk, then something is seriously wrong with the way society perceives men, as far I'm concerned. Those guys shouldn't be held as the standard in which the rest of us try to achieve. It should be the opposite.

  • Holly-Go-Lightly said on May 26, 2007....

    where have you been all my life??

    LOL  ;)

  • gingersoul said on May 26, 2007....
    Boon......and why are you shaking your head?
  • rmuxagirl said on May 26, 2007....
    evil darlin., the father thing was more for engagement....my ex didn't exactly ask for my hand in marriage he just did it.  I wouldn't want my guy to ask my dad to date me...he'd tell them all no.
  • Antimatter said on May 26, 2007....

    I hate to say it, but I was the “nice guy” in a similar story of my own within the past two years. It took me a while to figure it out, but eventually I realized she was walking all over me and taking advantage of my forgiving temperament. I got the hell out as quickly as I could.

    There are many fish in the sea, and I’m more than willing to be patient in my search. Even if I find my mindmate well after all the jerks get laid, in my mind I will have finished first.

  • cotteralladams3 said on May 26, 2007....
    Whiny?  Whiny depends on how you define it.  A genuine complaint by someone who wants some sensitivity, understanding and respect is fine.  To have to put up with someone whining about his personal life constantly, without any desire for understanding and advice, is annoying.
  • dyingman said on May 26, 2007....
    I didn't read ALL the comments, so forgive me if you've heard this already.

    The crazy broads like your colleague are vocal about their romatic quirks.
    Care to count the women at your office, including the married ones?
    Statistically, women go for nicer guys, not jerks.

    Further, I don't recall you sharing an age with me, but I suspect she's under 30.
    Even ladies attracted to damaged goods don't necessarily keep those tastes.

    It's cold comfort now but your style will become more attractive as time goes on.
    Be manly in cool ways.  Pump some iron, face fears you have, stand up for someone else who needs help...
    Or don't, maybe that isn't you.
    What clearly ISN'T attractive is pretending to be someone you're not.  When you let your guard down, she may not like what's left behind when you drop the act and you've wasted both your time and hers. 

    As a last word, if you're having trouble with the ladies, make friends with 'em.  Especially the ones you aren't attracted to.  The ones that find YOU attractive build your confidence (and you may find you like them more than you thought!), and the ones who don't may think of a friend who WOULD like you.

    *DM

  • CreativeWoman said on May 26, 2007....
    evil twin,
    I don't think you are a whiner.  This is something that obviously means a lot to you, as well it should. 

    You seem to be a really great guy who cares about women.  The right woman is out there looking for you too.  Keep your heart open.  One day you'll connect.

    I have been where you are except I was always the nice girl.  It takes much longer than we ever want it to. Don't ever settle for less than what you know you want.  I did and lost myself.  It's taken me forever to find my way back. RWW has some great advice.

    CW

  • evil_twin said on May 26, 2007....
    holly--I've been right here! ;-)

    rmuxagirl--Okay, now I understand. Asking for permission to marry makes alot more sense than asking your dad if the guy can date you. Although, I didn't do that either...I asked someone that question once and she said no. Her dad probably would have said the same thing.

    antimatter--There are many fish in the sea. It's worth waiting for the right one who will appreciate you.

    cotteralladams--I agree with your definitions.

    dyingman--Thanks for your advice. The woman at my office is 25, so yeah, she's under 30. And you're right. I shouldn't be something I'm not, because then no one will be happy.

    creativewoman--Thank you so much for your comments. And I definitely will keep my heart open. :-)
  • brokenandused said on May 26, 2007....
    evil_twin: first i hope you don't mind me posting but i love reading your posts! They are so detailed!
    anywho, getting back on point, in my honest opinion, i think women who have "bad ass guys who treat them like shit" only have them because they one: don't think they deserve better, two: like the attention of all the drama it brings and three: have never truly expierenced love in their lives.
    From what i've read on your posts, you are a wonderful man who like CW said, will find that woman looking for you. Dont ever let a woman change you, or make you feel that who you are is not right. She doesn't deserve your love and respect.
  • evil_twin said on May 26, 2007....
    brokenandused--Of course I don't mind you posting! That's what this is here for. Thanks for reading and I'm glad you like my blogs. And I think you're pretty much dead on as to why some women fall for that type of guy. 
  • fairytaleromance said on May 27, 2007....
    RWW said: "If you gain the girl but lose yourself in the process you have gained nothing."

    I have to agree with that.

    If a guy will do literally ANYTHING to "get" me, it's a HUGE turn-off. I expect a real man to want to do things to make me happy, but I also expect him to have some integrity and not lie about things just to impress me and attempt to gain my approval.

    And yeah, I'd probably rather be with an asshole who was himself than a floormat guy...

    But it is possible to be a nice guy without being a floormat.

    I love everyone. But to gain entry into my life, you have to prove trustworthy. Assholes can at least be trusted to be assholes, floormats will pull stupid passive-agressive shit that's way more dangerous than anything an outright asshole would ever be able to even think of.

    A real nice guy with integrity, brains, similar interests and at least decent-looking? Oh wow.

    The problem with love, is that love isn't enough.
  • evil_twin said on May 28, 2007....
    fairytale--Thanks for your thoughts. I usually try to just be myself with women, and hope for the best. It's too hard to pretend to be something you're not for any length of time. And in the end, what do you have if someone likes you for something you're not? RRW was right. He's very smart!
  • Boonsketti said on May 28, 2007....
    I apologize for my posts. I was having a terrible day. Now I reread it and realize I didn't make too much sense. Be yourself and forget the rest who can't keep up! It's a big beautiful world with a lot of people... 
  • evil_twin said on May 28, 2007....
    Boonsketti--Don't apologize. You had a lot of good things to say. And I do agree with you on many of your points. No worries, speaking your mind. That's a good thing!
  • PassionTraveler said on May 29, 2007....
    I truly believe age matters here. I can't tell you how many women behaved toward men exactly like this during my high school and early college years.

    I never went for the bad boy, but I could see how attractive it might be to go against what mom and dad forbade. A right of passage to rebel against the ideal and convention.

    As I aged, the shift changed, somewhere in my mid-20s or late 20s. Yes, some women still stayed with jerks. But for the most part, most women mature out of that bad boy fetish.

    I think also, when a guy is TOO nice, as your coworker puts it, it's more about clingy-ness and suffocating behavior that is just very unattractive. It impinges on a woman's independence and freedoms, and although I think feminism sometimes goes too far, the true answer is somewhere in between, something more balanced.

    Women want their men to be the Alpha Male when needed, as sort of proof of protection, but also attentive to her. I know women like the romantic cliche, or so they say, but I think it's more about being attentive and communicative to who she is and her needs, just as she should be attentive and communicative to her man. It's not so much being mushy, but just being attentive.

    PT
  • Frlncwrtr said on May 30, 2007....
    ET: I think and passiontraveler and Mom hit the nail on the head. I also think that as women mature their interests change to wanting what is more normal and more secure. You should be who you are. You'll find the right woman, but it will take some time. You said you like to be the protector, so you obviously are not a wimp. I, by my very nature am a protector (look at what I chose as my profession). But, I am also a nice guy and been told that being nice, sensitive to a woman's needs, and showing my emotions is very sexy. My fiancee says that sometimes women that she knows have said nice guys are wimps and boring, but that I, along with being a nice guy have that inner strength that comes out very fast when needed. I would never let anyone push me around - including my woman. Balance, ET. That's all it is. Just be you! freelance
  • evil_twin said on May 30, 2007....
    passiontraveler--Thanks for your insight. I think you're very right about finding a good balance between being strong and 'manly' and being sensitive and attentive. I think it also applies to women too. I like a woman who's strong and independent, yet I want her to need me and be nurturing too.

    frlncwrtr--You are totally right. Thanks for commenting. And I hope that I have recently found a woman who just might appreciate who and what I am. I'm crossing my fingers anyway! I'm being myself and so far she seems to like that guy.
  • Frlncwrtr said on May 31, 2007....
    Being yourself is the best thing you can do, ET. I haven't been on Soulcast too much since Friday or so, and I'll have to catch up on your posts. I hadn't read much about the new woman until today. However, I did learn more about the nurse with the hilarious stories. Good Luck! I hope you have finally found the right one. :) freelance
  • PassionTraveler said on Jun 03, 2007....
    Evil, I like that you bring up the counter argument that women too should be balanced with strength & independence, and still show a softer side to her man. I sooo agree.

    By the way, I'm looking ... How old are you, & where do you live? LOL (I'm 38, well, 39 this month and in Southern California. Just in case. ). okay, just kidding, sort of.

    Also, EvilTwin, how did you come by that moniker? Are you, per chance, a Gemini too?)

    PT
  • evil_twin said on Jun 03, 2007....
    PassionTraveler--I am 27 (28 in a few weeks) and I'm in So-Cal too. I got my username because of a family joke when I was a kid. My brother and I are not twins, but we looked alot alike when we were young, plus we're close in age, so some people thought we were. I was the troublemaker, hence, I was the evil twin. But no, I'm not a Gemini. I'm a Cancer.
  • PassionTraveler said on Jun 04, 2007....
    Cancers are all heart Evil Twin, which is why you are so empathetic to the plight of your female coworkers. Thanks for sharing. You're good people.
    PT
  • evil_twin said on Jun 04, 2007....
    Thank you, PassionTraveler. Cancers do have big mushy hearts, don't they? I'm just recently reading about that and it's very true!
  • radioclash said on Jun 05, 2007....
    i haven't read a damn thing anyone wrote here, because there were about 10 kabillion comments before i jumped on, so this might be a repeat statement. i'd say, don't fucking change your personality for any woman. if you're an emotional person, show your emotions. actually, that's kind of stupid, because i think just about everyone is truly an emotional person, save sociopaths. some are just quicker to show them. besides, it generally does nothing to fake being a badass or asshole. if it's not you, it's probably not going to work. and yes, women, by the numbers, seem to enjoy being treated like shit, considering all the women who stay with assholes, even physically abusive ones. but according to your recent success with natalie, who appreciates you for who you are, nice guys don't always finish last. :-D

    -rc

  • cotteralladams3 said on Jun 05, 2007....
    It's hard to suggest who goes for who.  I haven't met a lot of women in bad relationships.  I do not excuse men or women for treating the other with disrespect.  There is no excuses for any of that anymore.
  • lfbno7 said on Jun 09, 2007....
    There is a relationship expert who sells his ebooks and tapes online.  Unfortunately I don't remember his name. But he is right on target about the question you have asked.  I read some of his stuff.  He's the greatest.

    One thing he explains is that women love a challenge.  The other side of the coin is that they simply are not hard wired to respond to wusses, to underconfident males.  It isn't a choice they make.  It's not that they prefer jerks.  It's that they are hardwired to respond to confident men.  It's something that happens to them, not something they choose.

    This relationship expert has a lot of advice for you.  First comes the internal game.  You need to get that together first.  You need to value yourself and not be a wuss who thinks that you are lucky to have a girl's attention.  I'm not saying you are that way, so please don't be insulted.  I don't know you.  I'm just writing about what this expert has to say.  God knows I'm not criticizing you or making assumptions.

    He advises that the best way to get a girl interested is to have a cocky sense of humor.  Tease her.  Playfully insult her.  Say things that give her the impression that you are confident, whether you are or not.  Do it in a funny way.  Don't belittle yourself.  Belittle her.  Mess with her head.  Not in a mean way.  Just in a funny way.  Like if she has odd shoes on, say "nice shoes" and then let your eyes go towards the ceiling.  Play with her.  Tease her.

    The right combination of cocky and funny goes a long way.  Also, don't be needy.  Don't be groping her.  Lean back.

    His style with a new girl would go something like this.  If he wants to kiss her, he might just look at her and order her "stand up".  When she does, he would kiss her gently and quickly and then sit down, leaving her standing there alone.  He says that girls always know when you want to kiss them, and they wonder why you are too much of a wuss to do it, they read your mind.  Build sexual tension by taking her a little way, then letting it drop.  Be playful and confident, and not at all needy.  Girls like it when they are sexually aroused and let down, alternately.  It turns up their thermostat. They don't like you to pounce.  They need time to warm up and they like to play.  Show her that you are not afraid of her, that you will kiss her if you want to, but you won't be all over her.  Leave her wanting more.  Let you be the one to start, and let you be the one to stop, and let her be the one wanting more of you.

    Then if you've done that well, she may start touching you.  At that point, tell her no.  Tell her you're not that kind of boy.  Then laugh.  Then kiss her.  Then sit down.  Play cat and mouse with her.  She'll be turned on by that.  Keep her wondering.  If you do it right, she'll think she has found a very special guy, and her hormones will blow up.

    But if the only guys she meets who have confidence in themselves are the jerks, then she will be attracted to jerks because they are the only choices she has.  She simply can't be attracted to wussies.  They don't make it happen for her.
  • evil_twin said on Jun 09, 2007....
    radio--I like your advice. I don't wanna change who I am just so some chick will like me better. I always say, if she's the right girl, she'll like me for who and what I am. Right? And yeah, I think I found that girl in Natalie.

    cotterall--There is no good excuse for anyone to treat each other disrespectfully. I agree with you there.

    lfbno7--You gave some really interesting advice. And honestly, I can totally see how this might work for some people. But my problem is that I don't wanna put on a front and pretend I'm some smooth operator. I just wanna be me. I'm not an actor, so why should I put on a show? But the sense of humor and the teasing? I'm a master at that. That's just how I am naturally, and it does seem to attract women. But since I've written this post originally, I actually met an awesome woman. And I think she really likes me for who I am. Just curious, do you follow this dating advice? Does it work well for you? And if you follow it, is this close to your real personality or do you have fake alot of this stuff?
  • lfbno7 said on Jun 09, 2007....
    Well, there's this very pretty girl at work named Danielle.  We haven't talked much, and we never work together on any projects, so there's limited contact.  Yesterday I was walking past her room and stuck my head in the open door and snapped "Get to work!" and kept walking.  As I continued down the hall I heard her cracking up happily.

    As David DeAngelo says, if they're laughing or smiling, you're doing great.

    Yes, I have a stupid sense of humor, and I'm proud of it too.  And no, I can't be fake.  I just have an absurd sense of humor and my philosophy at work is anything for a laugh.  It's dreary enough without that.

    I'm not dating though.  I'm married and not looking.
  • lilyoh said on Jun 18, 2007....
    She wants excitement..she's just not found the right guy. The jerk gets her revved up..and the nice guy is sweet..but doesn't get her excited. ...she hasn't found what she needs yet. ..girls want somone who makes their  heart race...often the exciting guys are the 'bad' boys...just gotta keep on looking. 
  • dyingman said on Jun 30, 2007....
    On the "Be yourself"  "Don't change who you are" thing...


    I'd add a caveat.  Feel free to change into who you want to be.
    Self-improvement can lend confidence and there are so many ways to go about it one of them is likely to be a goal you find appealing enough to succeed in.

    Build some muscle, play a guitar, learn to cook, work at a food bank, get a better job, read more good books.

    You can be proud of these achievements and your new confidence can be reflected in the more attractive package you're offering to the world.


  • Dandy_Lion said on Jul 08, 2007....

    Regarding that first comment, Uniquely-Ironic meant masochist. The sadist delivers the pain. The masochist receives it. 

    Anyway, I think we often forget that we humans are basically rational animals. I think that on the animal level many women are attracted to mean, wild or sociopathic men. Just the same many men are attracted to mean, wild or high-maintenance women. You can't make yourself and no one can make you attracted to what you're not. You either are attracted or you're not. So, be yourself.

    You could say that hopefully we function on a rational and not an animal level. However love and lust are not rational. So, they defy reason. Consider this: Have you ever been attracted to someone and not able to pin down why?

  • nursecutie said on Jul 15, 2007....

    I was just getting ready to read more of your blog, and this title caught my attention.......

    I did not read all of the comments because there are soooo many of them, so maybe someone else already said this? But I have an opinion on this, Kyle. Or at least a theory.....

    Women want to be with a hot looking guy. Duh. But when it comes to hot looking guys, the vast majority of them are pompous assholes. They know they are hot looking, and can reasonably get any woman they want to be with them. Therefore they treat you like they are doing you a favor by being with you.....like you have won a prize. And they are so good, they have you believing that too.

    I have experienced this, and have put up with mean comments and insensitivity, because the guy was so cute. I wanted him to love me, so I let him treat me bad, in hopes that he would see how patient and sweet I was.....and maybe love me eventually.

    It doesn't work!! I learned the hard way, more than once.....it was not so much that I felt I could change them or fix them, but that they would finally trust me to let their guard down and be the nice person I thought they could be.....turns out that some men just are not nice, and there is no bringing that out of them.

    But nice guys do not finish last. They win. But since they are so nice, they don't even realize they've won, because to them, it's not a game. Does that make any sense? LOL

    I will just say that you are one of the good ones with the whole entire package. Looks and sincerity.....

    But reading this, I see your struggle with wanting to slip back into your old habits of pretending to be someone else. You made the decision to be yourself, and then you heard this conversation at work, and suddenly you wanted to change yourself again......Did you know you were doing that?

    I'm glad you didn't change though......if you were mean, I would not be with you....actually, I probably would be. Sad as that fact is..... If you had wanted me, I still would have been with you, because I'm weak like that.....but I would not be happy the way I am now.....

    xxoo natalie xxoo

     

  • Dandy_Lion said on Jul 15, 2007....

    I think that many women want to date mean men but marry nice ones. So, in the long run, nice guys win. I don't think it's fair to say that all men who make women's hearts skip are jerks and that all unattractive ones are nice. People, men and women, can nice or mean whether they're attractive or unattractive.

    Some people think that pretty women are mostly mean. However, I've seen pretty women with great personalities. I've also seen unattractive women with lousy personalities. The physical appearance doesn't make the person.

  • nursecutie said on Jul 15, 2007....

    Dandy Lion, I hope that you did not think I meant all nice guys are unnatractive!! That was not the point I was making, and didn't mean to come across like that. I just meant that alot of very attractive men DO have a chip on their shoulder. Like they are entitled to something, just because they are pretty.....women can be like that too.

    Certainly not ALL people are like that though. I was just speaking from some of my own experiences.

    xxoo natalie xxoo

  • Dandy_Lion said on Jul 15, 2007....

    Generally, attractive people tend to receive favorable treatment about everywhere imaginable and have much confidence in their looks because they've heard they're attractive most of their lives. Music is one industry where attractive women in particular receive favorable treatment. Think of the popular female singers in any musical genre: pop, R&B, hip hop, Latin, country, etc. They're all attractive. That includes Beyonce (R&B), Rihanna (hip hop), Shakira (Latin/pop), Shania Twain (country) and Faith Hill (country).

    If a female singer's unattractive she'd better be an extraordinary singer if she expects to be signed. For males, beyond teen pop music, talent and presence alone usually suffice. Ruben Studdard, for one, is doing well. Broadcasting is another industry where attractive people, male and female, are preferred.

    If attractive people are spoiled, demanding, selfish, shallow--in other words, nothing more than eye candy--then the people who've praised their looks their entire lives are partly to blame. If attractive women are mean it's partly because of the many men who kiss their asses. An attractive woman can go to a night club and stay and drink until closing time on $5 or less.

    Beauty and booty open doors. That's how it is.

     

  • eatmytaco said on Dec 29, 2007....
    I also used to date a nice guy and dumped him because he was too nice. However, that does not mean I'm a sadist, although I'm sure there are girls like that. It just means that guys have to draw the line. This guy was all over me, always hugging me, didn't let me breathe and proposed to me when we were only fifteen (with a ring!). Anyway, I did love him at the time but it really scared me when he proposed. Now that I'm older and was treated like shit and got my heart broken by somebody else, I appreciate my nice guy boyfriend. The crazy thing is that even though he is the perfect boyfriend and he spoils me like crazy, I don't feel like he's too nice. I think sometimes guys just come off as too emotional and vulnerable and thats supposed to be us.  
  • camerooncassie said on Jan 07, 2008....
    hi...I want to echo "eatmy taco" and "bluesnake." It's more complicated that "nice guy" vs. "asshole." It's a sliding scale with anyone, male or female. I'm sure you want a woman who, when you are dating her, retains all those awesome qualities that first attracted you to her in the first place...rather than someone who is all about you, all the time, and who is doing everything to make sure *you* are happy, you are contented, you "still like me." When a woman or a man does that in a relationship it creates a really awful dilemma. You feel like "this person is being so *nice* to me, and I should appreciate it!" but also feel somewhat, maybe disappointed, because they're not being the great person they were when you met. I have been with wonderful really decent and *nice* men, who also retain their strength and identities in a relationship---and I am so so so grateful for that. At times, they can be vulnerable and weak or whatever--like any human being, male or female--and that's not at all a problem or issue! The issue is losing their own self, and putting someone too far above or in front of them! of seeming like they're always trying so hard to please. I was in a relationship with this guy who an old friend had dated and I always thought she was nuts to let this guy go--he was totally wonderful and interesting and talented and funny--but when years later we got together the same thing happened with us as with her. But by bit he slipped away and went from being someone who respected and liked me, but also had a strong sense of himself, to someone who had no opinions and would agree with anything I'd say, and seemed "desperate" (that's a horrible word, maybe "really anxious" is better?) to please? And what pleased me most in the world was him being him!! and not being a carbon copy of me. Doing things that he liked to do and not always trying to do what I wanted to do. It feels lonely to be in a relationship like that. maybe some women want that; and maybe some men want that in a woman they are with. But I think both sexes want someone who retains their own interestingness, as well as adores you and does super nice and romantic things for you. So I guess I'm trying to say it's not black or white. Like it's not either you have to be "nice" or an "asshole." But the thing, I believe, some women are attracted to with the Bad Boy is that it *seems* (not saying the appearance of this is reality, at all!!) like he will not be *desperate* to please, worried that you're not going to like him, and dropping his interests and individuality in order to be more like you or something. It's hard because when we're on our own we have to be independent, and we take care of ourselves and solve problems and pursue our own interests without a thought. So when we get into a relationship what is the balance between being independent and being interdependent? When you're with someone, that whole paradigm shifts. Usually that takes time. And when that happens too quickly (like a man or woman suddenly seems ready to drop all prior interests or be available 24/7 or is all about the other person and their interests) it sends up a flag. You want to feel that the other person was cool with own their life and had real interests and pursuits---because if it seems like all that is dropped when a relationship starts it almost seems like the person was biding their time, just WAITING to get into a relationship (maybe with anyone) it feels like a cheat, like what happened to that interesting person who loved their life and had lots of things going on? and puts a lot of pressure on the other person and relationship. My parents have been married 50 years and they have always had many shared interests but also separate pursuits and interests. They are respectful and kind and romantic with each other, even now. But they also, neither of them, is or has ever been a pile of moosh. It's not that a woman wants a man to "keep her in her place" or ignore her or not have time for her. But for a guy to maintain all the wonderful things about him and do things that make him him--not just focus on her...because then she is just alone with a mirror image or an admirer...and it's not even, and as I said, it's lonely. You want that whole engaged person back who you met. I've seen from my parents it's possible to do that. Sorry for the long response. But I've thought about this situation a lot ;-) Hope it's somewhat useful.

Comment on "Do nice guys really finish last?"


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And d6 revealed!...
Opps more to the GOP BLUNDER: Sarah Palin's Teenage daughter is Pregnant. Yes. Preggers and we are suppose to possibly entrust the country to this woman should geezer McCain for any reason have to step aside,die,or unable to complete his term? She can't...
I had a really good weekend. Finally! Let's just say that between being incredibly sick, and being miserably depressed for a good part of August, I was really ready for something good and fun to happen....
Just taking a moment to wax rhapsodic......

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