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Mankind fears what he doesn't understand because he cannot control the unexplainable. Mankind fears what he cannot see, but he prays to the unseen daily. As you let go of the security of your insecurity, all things are possible.

Abandoning the spiritual life-- For some reason we are led to believe there is a certain sanity and logic to our existence. But who wants to say it is all illogical and without any certain course leading anywhere? Who really wants to believe their life is without meaning and purpose? A thousand religions and a hundred sciences have all tried to order it and make sense of it. But looking objectively we can not say any have truly succeded in their quest to find that universal answer that explains our being. Objectivity is difficult to attain but if we can look at the history of religion and sciences of existence from a purely historical basis. If we measure what fruits man's struggle to explain man have produced we can easily see the abscence of a succesful model. Every religion has created struggles within man and produced struggles between men. The sciences of psychology and psychiatry have not reduced the mental illness of mankind. It has simply given a language to try and describe it. So atheism and agnosticism becomes a natural outcome of a system that realistically intensifies the struggle instead of providing peaceful workable answers. Of course most apologist would say the problem is not the religion or sciences, the problem is what man does with those systems. They take the divine and orderly and interject their own base human selfishness into it. Thus they pollute what could work. Does man prefer the struggle to find above the working out of the problem? Which means if we provide man with the perfect answer to every problem he will reject it so he can continue struggling to find an answer. He finds his identity not in the answers but in the struggle. Certainly the history of man would affirm this. Wise men and prophets are silenced and killed if they are too sure in their answers, lest all the world should follow after them. So man is addicted to a chaotic life where the true meaning of his existence must remain a mystery. So no religion or answer would be sufficient. But let us speak of abandoning every spiritual principle and banning every religion. The world will cry out, "insanity, insanity." After all even atheism is a religion of it's own born of denial of divinity. Agnosticism is the religion of the eternal question mark. Viewing man's need to have no absolute answer's perhaps these are the truest religions of man. The reality may be inconvienient but any who would find answer's need to reckon that absolute universal answers are taboo. We can state that man's joy is in the struggle to find, his peace is in the mystery, and he will defer to the last minute accepting any concrete answers. This could well be the explanation why every "Gospel of Peace," has given birth to every war.



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  • hunter_boyce_chandler said on May 17, 2007....

    I've used this same argument with very little success.  It has a fatal flaw.  We stand today the product of our past.  Evolution selected the physical traits we needed to survive as a species.  It also selected for behaviors that would insure our success.

     

    Perhaps the need for spirituality is a vestigial trait in man that he no longer needs.  Perhaps it is there for a reason still.

     

    HBC

  • luci-fur said on May 17, 2007....
    Hi,
     
    Mankind fears what he doesn't understand because he cannot control the unexplainable. Mankind fears what he cannot see, but he prays to the unseen daily.
     
    I agree for the most part that this is how a large percentage of humans still exist. That is, fearing what they do not know. Fearing that 'god' or fate or some other being does things to us randomly. A belief in a force other than themselves which determines their future or sways their now.
     
    But more and more people are waking up and realising that they are the only ones controlling their destiny. Perhaps a growing number are realising that they actually have all the answers themselves and do not need to look outside themselves to find any answers to life's questions. It's all inside us - when we tap into the 'divine'. In my belief we are the divine, made manifest here on this planet. We are just all remembering it.
     
    There is no need to search for answers, to search for meaning from institutions such as the church and other rigid structures. Humanity has done that for centuries. Basically given our power and control away.  Our power, knowledge, guidance, spirit, spirituality, answers are within us and always have been.
     
    We determine our future and bring that future to us.
     
    luci. 
     
     
  • DarioDelajesus said on May 17, 2007....

    It's all inside us - when we tap into the 'divine'. In my belief we are the divine, made manifest here on this planet. We are just all remembering it.

         The Kingdom of God comes not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or Lo there! for behold the Kingdom of God is within you.

                                                                Luke 17:20-21

  • DarioDelajesus said on May 17, 2007....

     Evolution selected the physical traits we needed to survive as a species.  It also selected for behaviors that would insure our success.

           Just one question: Is evolution smarter than humans then?

  • luci-fur said on May 17, 2007....
    I see humans as spirit residing in a physical vehicle in order to create and remember who they are.
     
    I also see the spirit that is within us (every one of us) as being this evolution you speak about.
     
    We are what is evolving (the spirit that is, within each of us and all life - the 'we' that connects all of us and always has).  And as a result physical life and humans phsyical bodies and characteristics evolve also.
     
    Going back to the spirit, people often see 'god' or this uniting spirit as perfect and we humans as imperfect, but i see spirit as evolving alongside humans. Spirit has come from a certain level of consciousness and we/it are moving now at lightening speed and ascending faster and faster (well... most of us that is, some choose not to of course). 
     
    We (our physical body) have chosen through our thoughts, our feeling and of course our desires and needs what it is we need, and no longer need.   The  physical body is not divorced from the spirit or the consciousness which connects us all... imho.
     
    When it all boils down to it, we have always been the ones doing the selecting. I do not see that evolution is outside us. It is us. Even when 'we' took different forms such as prehistoric man and animals etc millions of years ago.
     
    So the question (to me) isn't whether 'evolution' is smarter than humans. Because evolution is humans.  We are evolving, our consciousness is evolving, our spirit is evolving and thankfully the planet will evolve as a result of our ascension. The question really is "when will we all realise how great (smart) we all actually are? "\
     
    luci
  • DarioDelajesus said on May 17, 2007....

    luci---WOW-(three letter word expressing wonder and awe) I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. Evolution as change and adaptation is a reasonable reality. But-just as a possible proposition--maybe there is also the "Dante's Inferno element..a devolution equal to the evolution. I like all manner of possibilities.

         Evolution suggest we are moving from a lower state to a higher state. Devolution would suggest we are moving from a higher state to a lower one. I think your saying would affirm that,"I see humans as spirit residing in a physical vehicle in order to create and remember who they are." I am sure you get the idea.

         Since you made the "remembering" statement twice--let me ask this.

                Why have we or did we forget that "who we are?"

        At first I totally rejected the idea that at some point we were the divinity--but logic made me choose between "Higher Intelligence" or "Random Events." As a student of science (particularly micro-sciences=atomic,quantum,microbe, etc.) I found the incredible mathematical order and equation of life energies defied the possibility of random events. I have also considered a middle ground which puts us totally as the creator of our present reality. But I find questions there i cant answer. like--why go from an eternal unlimited being to a limited being subject to suffering?  Anyway if you are not bored senseless--those are my thoughts--thanx for sharing!

  • thenack said on May 18, 2007....
    Dario, don't have time for a long response here now, but it seems to me quite ironic that someone who has seen the incredible order in nature, could still believe in evolution, which by definition, relies on randomness. there is no way you get order from disorder in nature, you have to agree, if something is orderly and you leave it, it gets disorderly. Not the other way round. In your first post you say you have to abandon the supernatural, but then you say in the last that you cannot because you would have to lie to yourself because of what you see in nature.
     
    You are very honest about this, so I am not trying to dis you. These are excellent questions, and some excellent observations. I'll try and find time to come back to this post.
     
    lucy-fer, how nice, you believe there is no spirit other than humans and we determine our own destiny as part of the greater "being" of the universe, yet you, for some reason, acknowlege the existence of lucyfer? According to your own explanation of what humans are, why do you accnowlege the existance of this spirit being? Sounds to me you are hiding quite a lot, sounds to me you know exactly who you are worshiping, by worshiping nature. I may be wrong though, perhaps you thought it sounded cool?
     
    Hunter, you really should consider the possibility that we are not the result of evolution. I think this may be the biggest stumbeling block in your search for truth. Again, this is just a probe, I may be assuming too much. But your inherint longing for "more" is obvious from your posts, and I think evolution is blinding you in your quest to learn. (This is meant really well, I hope you don't take it as an attack)
  • luci-fur said on May 18, 2007....
    Hi, it's getting late and i will ponder and answer you're question/s tomorrow Dario.
     
    thenack.. you misinterpreted what i said. I didn't say there is no spirit other than humans. I believe in source/god/all-that-is. We, as part of this presence or source energy manifest ourselves here in order to create (basically speaking) which is another way of saying.... we live in a world of contrasts which assist us in knowing what it is we want and don't want. We workout what we want and through the law of attraction, we create and draw to us experiences/things/people that we focus on(wanted and unwanted).  I'm digressing... so we are source/god manifested in the physical.  While we are here we have 2 components... our inner self/spirit/source and our physical self.  We are all linked through this inner self/spirit/source energy.  It is one and the same thing. This is how we are all connected. 
    My choice of nic is actually none of your business. And I choose not to go into it with you for that reason. But seen as you asked and i'm slightly in the mood to tell you some things....... Lucifer is nothing more or less than source energy - the same energy everything else is made up of. Hitler was no different to anyone here, he had an inner being and a physical body and simply made choices and decisions that the rest of the world find abhorent.... but still he was source energy in a physical body. Lucifer to my knowledge has never incarnated, but the lucifer presence is still source energy. Source/god is not just light and white and love, source/god energy incorporates the dark as well.....otherwise how would love/light etc 'know' itself. You can only know the existence of something when there is an opposite to compare it to. It's called duality.
     
    I have to ask you, why on earth would you care if i am hiding anything or not. i would hazard a guess that 99% of people online are hiding things. Once again, none of your damn beeswax.
     
    luci-fur
  • thenack said on May 18, 2007....
    Ok I get what you're saying, and its basically what I thought. Can't we all just get a long right? This whole philosphy sounds nice, but it has no spine.
     
    The pricipal of duality is flawed, as darknes is not the opposite of light, it's the absense of light. There is a big difference, it's not the other side of the coin, its no coin at all.
     
    What I meant with hiding is that I wonder if you are a deceiver or if you are deceived, a victim or a predator. Your nic may point to the latter, but like I said, maybe you were just looking to attract some attention.
     
    Thanks for the answer by the way, have a good night
     
    TN

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