thenack's tags:
I recentlyread a very nice example of how atheists (more specifically, people who adhere to the religion of evolution) lie and deceive to sound smart and make them selves feel better.
 
Carl Popper is/was probably one of the best philossophers of science. I stated by what he knows on "what science is", evolution does not qualify. I insert a piece I got from a website called the atheist :
 
Quite a few creationists try to rely upon comments by Karl Popper in their attacks on evolutionary theory. In a sense they have a point because Popper did criticize evolutionary theory; but they ignore the fact that Popper later retracted his criticism after he learned that he was mistaken. He demonstrated what being a scientist is all about.

In the September/October issue of Skeptical Inquirer, Massimo Pigliucci writes:

Perhaps the best-known philosophical criticism of evolution was put forth by Karl Popper, who once claimed that “Darwinism is not a testable scientific theory, but a metaphysical research program” (Unended Quest, 1976). ... Popper proposed his famous criterion of falsification to solve the demarcation problem: good science is done when hypotheses can be shown to be false (if they indeed are). That’s where the philosopher’s criticism of evolutionary theory originated from. Popper understood evolutionary biologists to say that their theory predicts that natural selection allows only the fittest organisms to survive; but, he countered, the “fittest” organisms are defined as those who survive, which makes the statement tautological.

Some creationists make similar criticisms today, but they fail to appreciate the fact that Popper retracted his criticism:

“I have changed my mind about the testability and logical status of the theory of natural selection; and I am glad to have an opportunity to make a recantation” (Dialectica 32:344-346).

Why the change? Because there are independent means for determining which members of species are “fittest.”

[B]iologists employ optimization analyses to predict which combinations of morphological, behavioral, or physiological traits are more likely to be advantageous (i.e., to increase “fitness”) in the range of environments actually encountered by a given living form. They then sample natural populations of organisms, determine in which environments they actually live, measure those traits they hypothesize are more likely to make a difference, and obtain statistical predictions on where natural selection should push the population next. Finally, biologists wait until the next generation of organisms comes out and measure their characteristics again.

Karl Popper was a philosopher rather than a scientist, but he demonstrated the scientific mindset: he changed his mind about a conclusion he reached once he was show new information which contradicted his beliefs. This often isn't easy to do because no one likes to be wrong; with some conscious work, though, a person can make it a bit easier and learn to accept their own fallibility.

We can contrast this with the creationists who so love to cite Popper or at least make the same arguments he did without acknowledging their debt to him. When confronted with information that contradicts their beliefs, they refuse to change their minds. Instead, they deny the evidence or rationalize ways to ignore anything they don't like. Creationists want to benefit from the thinking of Karl Popper without committing themselves the consequences of his skeptical, philosophical, and critical mindset. Even worse, it's seems unlikely that they have any idea what this means.

The problem is, natural sellection and evolution is not the same thing, the one is said to be the driving force for the other. So this "smart" guy from the atheist is again just manipulating his audience into believing that Carl Popper changed his tune. What he did was get confused just as our atheis trickster has.

the smarter you are, the better you will lie to yourself and others.....

 



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Comments

  • DarioDelajesus said on May 17, 2007....
      I may be an anti-intellectual too. But it is hard to admit education turns honest men into good liars. Maybe it goes back to-"give a child a hammer and everything he sees needs nailed down." My story is "who knows something they have not been told, read, or heard?" Discovery is born from antagonism to established truth's. OKAY!-your right--sounding smart is soooo easy!
  • thenack said on May 18, 2007....
    Hey Dario, good point, however, I never meant education as such, but rather a sort of intellectual arrogance that often accompany proffesurial types. The point has nothing to do with education, some of the smartest people I know are the most self destructive. As they alwayas seem to find a way to rationalise their actions. They tell themselves the lies they want to believe so they won't have to make the "right" decission. But now I'm stepping on dangerious territory.
     
    I have no problem with the first for knowlege. I personally think it is a gift from God.
  • DarioDelajesus said on May 18, 2007....
    I think where I am is that education from the "public system" is a brain-washing knowledge that is filled with information that does not agree with our life experience. I was always considered intelligent when the truth was I just had an excellent memory. The truth also is that the knowledge I was given did not help me to live a sane or constructive life. Any system that does not include our spiritual (heart, soul, mind) being is incomplete. We are suppossed to look to religion for that--but I find an equal amount of bad "education" there that does not agree with real life experience (in religion). When you speak of right decisions(They tell themselves the lies they want to believe so they won't have to make the "right" decission.) There must be a standard of what is right! To me that standard must work and agree with experience. This is my problem with both education and religion. "Public Education" has been and is teaching a relative standard--meaning there is no absolute standard. This is perhaps what gives the power to rationalize anything from murder to lies. I would be interested in your thoughts on what is a good and acceptable standard that is practical and in agreement with our life experience, thanx for the sharing-dario
  • thenack said on May 21, 2007....

    Dario, I think you hit the spot. Secular humanism (the current world religion) has its sites firmly set on relativism. This is a major problem as children are not taught to discern, to think, but only to repeat. This is carried on into adulthood.

     

    While the question of who should decide what is absolute, is obviously a massive one, I think that in the mean time children should be taught at least a few different views so they can learn to decide for themselves. But ultimately it will always end up being a struggle for power.

     

    This is one of the reasons, apart from the many scientific reasons, why I think evolution theory is so bad. It basically tells us that we should behave as animals do because we are the result of blind randomness. There is more than enough obvious evidence to at least conclude that there has to be a designer in nature, and that he did a good job, not a random one. ( for instance here I feel children should learn both sides of the creation/evolution debate, if evolution is so fundamentally true, kids would get it)

     

    But even if we know there is a creator, its also obvious that there is evil. So there is already two standards here, assuming that we have only one standard of the creator, which we don't. This is our context, there will always be more than one standard. We should choose one that makes the most sense, not ad our own personalized standard to the many ones already out there.

     

    This actually brings me to answering your question (well giving my opinion), You ask what standard I follow that is practical and in line with life experience. Yes and no, what you find acceptable is already determine in part by your experience, and your experience is determined in part by your standard (generally speaking). So in short, I think personally, Christian values are a very good standard to adhere to. What you experience in life, should not determine your standard, but the other way around. Your standard should determine what is practical to you, not the other way around. If you adapt your standard to what you think will  suit you best under current circumstances, you’ll have to choose again tomorrow, ending up to be a product of your perception of the current “median”. You will always be a product of your and other peoples opinions, you wont make a change, you’ll just follow.  Where if you always stay the same, regardless of how things “look”, at least you’d know who, where and what you are, instead of waiting to see if you guessed it right this time.

     

    Hope I make sense, keep well,

     

    TN

  • DarioDelajesus said on May 21, 2007....

    TN,

    I am all for "Christian Values." Loving one another as Jesus loved us, following peace, selflessness, and  having full faith in God's power would make the world a heaven. Neither war, poverty, or man's inhumanity to man could find a place. I think it safe to say though in the light of the proliferation of evil in this world something is amiss among the 2.1 billion practitioners in the world. One man defined the full tentants of this standard basically in 3.5 years. Through endless persecutions his followers obeyed and took his Gospel of Peace into all the world. I am being neither adverse or controversial in my observation.

        The other side of the story is that Jesus himself prophesied the course of that religion saying "few there would be that find it." He foretold the persecutions and also the total corruption of his person and word in the world. The point perhaps being--Without the true Christ there is no true Christianity. It is foretold in the prophets that those who take this way and depart from evil become like hunted prey. Jesus called those who followed after him to "deny themselves" and go through the trauma of what is no less than full death to a selfish self. Despite what prosperity teachers say he called to a life of material simpicity and a refusal to love the world and the things in it.

         So "Christian Values" are a great standard for those who can choose it and without looking back adhere to it.  I am hoping you have a different view and can persuade me of a practicality of Christian Standards beyond the individual. Certainly any "good" standards in the world have been born of that Gospel and it's Judeo roots. (Ten Commandments) All you wrote certainly made sense. I do believe in the value of absolutes---I am only grasping for myself and others where and how to find a way to live and share absolutes that will create harmony instead of war.

    Dario

  • thenack said on May 22, 2007....
    Dario, thanks for the reply, and a good one at that!
     
    Your observations are sadly true, and as I myself can vouch, even the best intentions sometimes go wrong.
     
    Firstly, it is actually quite easy to discern through history who were really Christians, and who not, when talking about the church. Persecuting different races and countries have no place in the new-testament commission of Jesus to His church. But your point remains, people won't stick to this, so what now?
     
    The only real answer I can give that may be of some help is the following, laws and moral standards should not be fassion related, and with fassion I mean a lot of things. This I say with regards to some of the issues that are begging for moral direction in our times. The last few years have seen more "relaxing" of moral fibre and laws that govern them than in many years. I am talking about gay, abortion, education etc. laws. Not only this, the united states have seen an increase of voilent crime close to 1000% since the 1960's. The 1960's saw the start of the end of Jesus in schools, but not only that, the starting of evolutionary theory as mainstream teaching in schools. Since the idea of evolution has been pumped exclusively into innocent minds, voilent crimes, suicide, abortion, teenaged pregnancy and drug abuse have skyrocketed. Funny how this also coincided with the great rock revolution, thought out by the satanist, Alestair Crowly. But thats a side issue, -----> the way people think, the laws we change, and the decisions we make, have in the last 50 years been guided by the fassion of evolution (in conjunction with the screw everything I'll do what I want) message we got from the stones, beetles etc. Should these laws have been adapted so soon? Should evolution have been taken as absolute gospel truth so soon? The humans of the modern era (1950s to 1970s) were very arrogant, they thought they had and knew it all. This caused them to change too soon and with no caution, and now we are the result of their foolish ways.
     
    So, to sum up my opinion, humans have let themselves to be fooled into thinking thy know everything, while at the same time we are constantly teaching out children that they are glorified monkeys.No wonder we are so confused. Our leaders should have been wise to consider all these "new" notions with care and caution before they changed laws etc. (I say this because we have based major parts of our thinking and philosophy on evolutionary theory, which is not real science, even if it may be true. Being a historical science, requiring by definition millions of years, we can never test it, hence it is not science, but a mere postulate) I think this is plain stupid, to base so many of lifes decisions on a idea that looked likely. I strongly urge you to look into the matter of inteligent design and creationism, even if it is only to broaden your own mind and abilities.
     
    So that said, the world was (at times) and will be a slightly better place, if the majority of our thinking was at least based on Gods moral code, although it will never be perfectly implemented by us.
     
    To say that we need something different,  because everyone won't follow the Christain values, is the wrong way of solving this. That way of thinking have let to the type of political Correctness that defends a 1% majority by discriminating agianst the 99%. We must fight for the increase in numbers to the way of God, no other philosophy will ever work.
     
    Lastly a small issue, Jesus lived very simple, but many of His other followers did not. He has howevr called His followers to be humble. This does not necessarily mean poor. however, God often trains his people to develope good character, before He lets them rule on earth. Joseph spent 13years in prisons and as a slave, through all this he trusted God and remained faithfull. The little responsibilities he had, he handeled very well. So God gave him the whole of Egypt to rule. Ths is a principle we often see in the Bible.
     
    Anyway gotta do some work
     
    Keep well
     
    TN
  • Antimatter said on May 23, 2007....
    What exactly are you trying to accomplish here if not trying to “sound smart and make [yourself] feel better?” Biologists do not claim that humans arose out of randomness, nor do their theories say anything about how humans ought to behave today. Natural selection is a probabilistic but decidedly non-random process.
  • thenack said on May 24, 2007....
    I have no problem with natural sellection, it can be and has been observed many times. It always requires the loss of information, and in very sellect cases, mutation or DNA swop in Bacteria. Even in the case of Mutation, the DNA change is usually detramental, and organisms learn to ope with the result rather than it enhancing them. Whatever the case, information was already present for the mutation or natural sellection to act on. This is not evolution, evolution requires information to increase, so frogs can become chimps and ultimately humans.
     
    My reason for doing this is that evolution is a very sick and dangerous religion, its holding real science back while it is resulting in a multitude of social ills. "Smart" people tell "stupid" people that evolution is fact; I'm saying evolution is not the only option and its reallt quite simple, everyone can understand it and choose for themselves. I don't need to make myself feel good, I want other people to know that they are not decendants of monkeys (or pond scum), but that God created them, and He wants them to live a life worthy of His immage. Creationists get bashed and ridiculed all the time, I'm standing up and asking you to tell me why you believe in evolution, instead of assuming I'm stupid because I don't. There is much more evidence in this world for an inteligent Creator, than for blind random evolution. In fact, nothing points to evoltion.
  • Antimatter said on May 24, 2007....

    On the contrary, a wealth of converging data from a multitude of disciplines all indicate that biological evolution happened, making the Theory of Evolution one of the most reliable theories in all of modern science. Evolution is currently the only option; creationists have yet to provide an alternative model that better explains all the data available to us.

    Though the Theory of Evolution does debunk the most literal interpretations of Genesis, the theory makes no claim at all about the role a God played in our existence. There are many theists in the field of biology.

    Thenack, I assure you there is a good answer to your DNA argument. The explanation is lengthy and would require some research to make sure I got the details right. Perhaps I’ll post it to my blog when I get a chance.

  • thenack said on May 24, 2007....
    Anti--there are so many but you give none, there is no evidence, its all interpretation from the evolutionary paradigm. Its by definition not a provable science, neither is Creationism. Evolution is not science, because we can not go back, because we do not have millions of years, we can not test it.
     
    The facts are we have never seen a species change, we have never seen an uphill DNA change, never. We only see mutations, which is the basis of evolutionary explanation. Everything we see in science suggest that evolution cannot work, but because everyone nows its true, we try to explain what we see from an evolutionary viewpoint.
     
    Again you make general statements but don't say anything, even a logical argument will be better than your opinion on what science have proved.
     
    Evolution is as much a religion as creation, but one with dire consequences
     
    Give the good answer, but try to first define what evolution is, and then you stick to that, otehrwise we won't get anywhere.
     
    Also try to prove your underlining assumptions, don't come with a single study about something, why do you think like you do, is it because everybody says so?
  • Antimatter said on May 24, 2007....
    “Evolution” is quite clearly not a religion. It has no creeds, theological tenets, or clergymen. Likewise, “creation” is not a scientific theory because it provides no useful predictions for future observations.

    We may not be able to go back in time to directly observe evolution, but that doesn’t mean we cannot test it. After discovering a fossilized creature in the field, a researcher uses evolutionary theory to make predictions. What killed this creature in such a manner that it would be fossilized? What sort of other fossils would I expect to find if I continued searching the same area? In paleontology, evolutionary theory stands or falls based on the success of these predictions.

    Evolution occurs rapidly enough in small populations of single-celled organisms that we can test and directly observe evolution in the laboratory. When protozoa are deprived of necessary proteins or given a food source they cannot metabolize, scientists have directly observed the modification (mutation) of existing proteins to fill new roles.

    I defined evolution in response to your questions on DarioDelajesus’s blog.
  • thenack said on May 25, 2007....

    Michael Ruse, professor of history and philosophy and author of The Darwinian Revolution (1979), Darwinism Defended (1982), and Taking Darwin Seriously (1986), acknowledges that evolution is religious:

    ‘Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion—a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality. I am an ardent evolutionist and an ex-Christian, but I must admit in this one complaint. . . the literalists [i.e., creationists] are absolutely right. Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today.’4

    It is based on an unprovable starting point, just like christainity. Its a religion, sory!

    Evolution has done nothing but have proffesors chase their own tails and pounding evidenc to fir their predictions. What have evolution ever gained us? nothing.

    Again, and I am saying this for the last time, evolution requires huge amounts of NEW information. No the re-aplication or different combinations of existing information. IT requires NEW, CONSTRUCTIVE INFORMATION. your bacteria argument is natural sellection, not evolution.

     

    Tel me how cows became dolphins, THATS EVOLUTION

  • Antimatter said on May 25, 2007....

    Somewhere creationists get the notion that evolutionists believe that one day a dinosaur gave birth to a bird with wings. This is absurd; evolution works in much smaller steps. My protozoa example was evolution. The cells “designed” a new protein that didn’t exist before by making small modifications to an existing protein that did something entirely different. Natural selection only ensured that the new trait reproduced more rapidly than the cells that lacked it. That’s all evolution does: adapt structures to fill new roles. Returning to my bird example, the first wings were obviously not for flight. What good is a half wing, right? The first wings (and feathers) were not adapted for flight at all, but instead something entirely different like increasing run speed or regulating body temperature.

    Michael Ruse can say anything he likes; he is but one man. Evolution is not a religion. Evolution has made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist, but only the latter is religion (or the lack thereof, anyway).

    Cows most certainly did not become dolphins. The aquatic mammals are perhaps most closely related to (or shared a common ancestor with) modern hippos.

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