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Come on in to my little Cosmic Cafe.  The tables are set and the lunch buffet is open.  The cuppa table is open with all of your favorite beverages.  Please relax as we reopen our discussion which is already in progress... 
 
Dealing with inconsistencies in a theory are the only way to maintain intellectual honesty and scientific integrity.  Let's move on from the traditional "Big Bang" cosmological theory, to seeing how quantum physicists have dealt with new information in relationship to those inconsistencies.
 
Continuing on with Fred Alan Wolf's,  Parallel Universes, Part Four, p. 172:
 
 
Most cosmologists now agree that there cannot be a consistent theory of the big bang or an early scenario without bringing together all of the present knowledge of physics.  Later attempts have certainly taken into account relativity theory.  However, although relativity has increased our knowledge of the big bang and in itself points to a new vision of space, time, and matter, relativity is a classical theory as well.  Since classical physics has long ago been replaced by quantum physics to explain the present universe, it stands to reason that the concepts of quantum physics must play a role in the big bang. 
 
But this turns out to be frought with controversy.  No one quite knows how to do it.  The major reason for this is that quantum physics has at its heart the important role played by the actions of observation.  These actions alter physical matter.  The properties of matter that we observe every day, such as the hardness of metals and stones, the temperatures of heated gases, the color of light and materials, as well as the refined properties of atoms and molecules, depend on what is chosen to be observed.  If matter remains unobserved, quantum physics predicts that matter will not have any of these properties to be observed.
 
These patterns of probability are quite weird.  They are themselves unobservable.  But whenever an observation of matter occurs, these patterns suddenly change, with the result that matter appears with the property sought for.  Not only that, but these patterns can act together producing a new physical possibility --- much as superimposing a number of transparent images in a slide projector can produce an image that is not contained on any of the individual transparencies.  Synthetic fabrics are only a tiny example from today's world of quantum technology where the superposition of possibilities to produce a new possibility in the physical world is used.
 
This new possibility cannot occur unless the separate possibilities act simultaneously.  To carry the slide image analogy further, assuming that each slide carries a particular property of matter, it is as if the properties of matter depend on the choices of the exhibitor of the slides.  Thus all of the observable properties of real matter needed to explain the creation of the universe can exist only through the superposing of these separate possibilities.
 
Each possibility must be distinct from all others, since each involves the appearance of matter in the physical world of space and time with a particular property.  Each possibility must occupy a separate region of space and exist for a particular interval of time.  Somehow these regions and intervals, the arenas in which matter plays the game of physics, must be adjacent to each other.  Yet each possibility must also occupy the same space simultaneously in order that these patterns of probability can be superimposed together.  Thus the arenas must all be the same arena (matter must occupy the same space, our universe) and, at the same time, an infinite number of adjacent arenas (a number of spaces or universes that are somehow "disincarnated" from each other).
 
Such spaces are today called parallel universes.
 
Consequently, whether or not the big bang occurred before there were observers, quantum physics states that parallel bangs had to occur --- each bang in a separate but equal other universe.
 
 
Wolf goes on to explain the following adjustments in perception and their relationship to parallel universes:
 
1. The First Inconsistency, Not Enough Time to Start the Universe
2. (The subsequent) Inflationary Models
3. (The problem?) Inflation Is Not Enough
4. (And finally...) Parallel Universes Solve Another Problem:  That is the "WHY us" problem.
 
 
I will make my commentaries to two separate audiences:  Believers on Jesus, and the other, unbelievers. 
 
First, to believers:
 
The Bible is clear about one thing.  We have free will.  We chose what we observe.  Quantum physics is clear about one thing.  What we seek to observe, determines what manifests.  Why do you suppose Jesus got so upset when he fed the five thousand, and subsequently, the four thousand?  He has been trying to teach us how to access the kingdom of heaven, so that we can feed his sheep, and do the will of the Father, yet we refuse to even believe that the kingdom of heaven is at hand, and moreover, that we believers, have access to its provision!
 
The Bible is full of quantum physics!  It is not that you must be an expert on quantum physics folks, but you must re-examine your own understanding and assess your own perceived 'risk taking' and self limiting 'comfort levels'.  If we don't believe and act like we believe everything that Jesus said and did...how on earth can we expect the unbelievers to want to believe????  Where are the signs, wonders and miracles that shake their incomplete or erroneous view of the world?   
 
 
Now to unbelievers:
 
It is not necessary that you believe anything I just said to believers.  It is necessary that you have the intellectual honesty to admit that the field of quantum physics has changed everything we previously thought about matter and how it came 'to be'.  Every theory needs to be re-thought, re-worked and re-evaluated based on our new understanding.  Unless of course, you believe that all life and indeed all matter is made of something other than atomic and subatomic matter.  Perhaps it is easier to believe in myths, fables, magic wands and fairy dust?
 
Science is a collection of disciplines that really don't communicate very well together.  There can be no understanding of a unified theory until there is a comprehensive framework, and that means that there must be effective interdisciplinary communication.  Don't feel too bad 'unbelievers'; we Christians have similar problems.
 
Again, to believers: 
 
I know this is controversial for everyone, especially on a Monday.  ; )  I have already confessed elsewhere that I am not in a very good mood today.  But that really doesn't matter.  I am expected to take every thought captive and to rule over my emotions.  I am expected to do all that I can possibly do to manifest the kingdom of God, daily.  I am reading more and more and realizing how much we have left to do.  I am realizing how far behind the 'church' seems to be.  How unruly the body of Christ is, still.  The head is brilliant, stable and all that it should be...but the members war against each other.  All members must come to attention under the head, the mind of Christ.  Stop looking at each other, and look at him, only. 


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Comments

  • pickersplock said on May 14, 2007....
    That was fascinating Truth. Perhaps we humans are always looking for truth when it's staring us right in the face. We think in linear terms, when in fact all of nature, in fact all of the universe has a more circular existance. Even the biggest star is resurrected after a violent death. Is it possible that we've always existed, and always will?
    Uh oh, we're going to have the grumpy people affter us now!
  • truthsayer said on May 15, 2007....

    Hi pickers, welcome to my blog!  I am so glad you read it and found it to be fascinating.  It is high time for us to 'come along' in our story, isn't it?  I suppose it is much like having our cake and eating it too.  God reconciles fate and free will, by providing the experience and truth of both in our existence.  Our existence is certainly eternal...and it is basically up to us, how we shall spend eternity.  We have only to change forms, and as we choose to interact with God, the great multiplier, we increase in value.   

    Quantum physics tells us that our future effects our present as much as our past does...and when you think about it, that really makes more sense anyway, doesn't it?  There is much to do, and at this 'time', too few willing to be aware of the truth, and fewer still that are willing to walk in that glorious future now. 

    Thanks again for your thoughtful comment plickersplock...and don't mind those grumpy ones...all they can do, really, is point out, in their dissatisfaction with our presence on the planet, that we are indeed headed in the right direction!  Are you ready to walk through walls and upon the water?!  Keep looking at him...and only him.  ; )

    Blessings,

    truthsayer   

  • pickersplock said on May 16, 2007....
    Right on, dude!
  • truthsayer said on May 16, 2007....
    Join me in a hypothetical high five then?! 
  • pickersplock said on May 17, 2007....
    You got it!
  • beyondtheveil said on May 18, 2007....
    truth- You have mentioned two basic belief systems, those being the religious (not only yours, but all others) and the scientific. There is really another belief system which constitutes the people who realize neither of the other two will ever prove beyond doubt their beliefs. These people are the open-minded searchers. I call it a belief system because this group places just as much effort, study, and thought into searching as the others do into science and religion. In fact, the searchers have more going on in their minds due to having both both of these studies and other aspects, simultaneously.
     
    You see, we are first presented with science. Science has the obvious advantage of the sight and feel of the cosmos and life. But there resides a very serious problem within science- they can prove nothing. On top of this, advances in science, most notably quantum theory, just make matters worse. Science does not know with certainty the true nature of anything in existence. Science can take samples, test, forecast and theorize. Advances only provide finer measurements of the total unknown.
     
    Everything science uses in it's "advancement", it understands nothing about. Science has no earthly idea what time, distance, matter, sub-atomic particles, or motion constitutes. The only thing science is capable of is extracting samples of the manifestation of reality and building tools they, again, do not understand.
     
    Now, does this resemble anything you can think of? How about religion? Do not both take samples of reality and make assumptions? Do not both take writings and make well thought out suppositions? It is stated in both (science-quantum theory & religion) that we are totally incapable of complete knowledge. Quantum theory states that, as does scripture state it is impossible to know or understand God.
     
    If you listen to people who say they know God, they will use words such as love, compassion, or omnipotence, which means about as much as non-believers using words such as theory, math, tests, or observation.
     
    All of this sounds amazingly like two facets of one belief system in a manner of speaking. They are both after the same thing- stating the truth of what is going on around us, how did it all happen, and what lies in the future. They both have the same stumbling blocks, which is they both can only rely on sense observation on something that can never be known with certainty in this life.
     
    I don't believe we should really be described as believers and non-believers, but all of us as searchers on a different path in attempting to process what is truth. If I never become a true believer in God, I would also never expect to be punished in an afterlife for this. God would not punish a searcher of the truth if they were good people with an open mind.
     
    Quantum theory and God theory, similar in so many ways. Qunatum theory can actually lead to a basis for spiritualism and God is spiritualism.
     
    Perhaps they are both religions, both spiritualism, explained in a different way.
  • truthsayer said on May 18, 2007....
    Well, welcome back beyondtheveil. 
    It is so good to 'see' you. 
     
    You know what?  When it comes to scripture, I do have to delineate between those that believe and hearken to the truth of scripture, and those who do not...even if they are not sure, until they are sure, I would not want to speak to them in the same way about the same things, you know?
     
    But I understand your point.  Because I am not terribly fond of 'labels' and categorization; I can see your point that you don't exactly feel like you fit into either the believer, or nonbeliever category.  This is why my nickname was born:  truthsayer.  For those who seek the truth and trust their ability to recognize it, even if they cannot completely define it for all time, they can admit that they have some intrinsic ability to recognize, or sense truth, beauty, love, hope, trust, etc. Hopefully we are not all like Pilate was when he had the King of kings right in front of him, knew he was innocent, felt it in his innermost being, and still scoffed:  What is truth?!
     
    You said:
     
    Quantum theory states that, as does scripture state it is impossible to know or understand God.
     
    Quantum physics says more than that.  It even says that if we could measure and locate every particle in the universe, or in all universes, that it would release such violence that we would probably cease to exist!  But that does not mean that we cannot know God.
     
    I can show you many scriptures that say that we can, and should be at the joyful task of getting to know God; that God is knowable.  Just because we cannot know everything about something, doesn't mean that it is not knowable.  Your wife can not know everything about you, because you are an open system...but she can know you, you are knowable.  You cannot know everything about her either; but that doesn't keep you from learning more about her everyday.
     
    The belief that God is not knowable is a false belief, at least in respect to the truth.  People that say that, and that are dedicated to that belief, truly do not want to know God.  They are unwilling, not unable.  I hope that this does not offend you, but I believe that you are a truth seeker, as you say, and I wouldn't want to let this opportunity pass in which to say that if you want to know God, I guarantee you, that you can know God.  All it takes, and I mean, all it takes, is a willing heart. 
     
    So many simply will not entertain possibilities, but say that they do...so many say they have open minds...but find their mind cannot, or will not,  open to this one amazing fact...this one promise of God that is truth itself.  His plan, his heart, his intention, is to be known by you beyond.  It is his hearts desire to be known again, by his creation.
     
    I value you.  But is that enough to base your whole understanding upon?  No, it is not.  I am but a speck in the grand plan.  Is an understanding of quantum physics enough to base your whole understanding upon?  No, not at all.  What is enough of a base for which to build your whole understanding upon?  The truth?  Yes, but only if you believe that the truth itself is knowable...if you do not believe that the truth is knowable, even if you can only begin to know the truth, without knowing all truth, in total, in full...but to know and recognize truth, real truth, at some level.  If not, then your own beliefs have destined you to wander aimlessly, and without purpose, in that the truth is unknowable, God is unknowable, etc., etc.   God has not limited your understanding, you have, or others that have commited their thinking to these limitations have limited themselves. 
     
    Yet they are quick to rail on God, other Christians, and to blame God, or other Christians poor representation of him.  The truth is, they like where they are.  They have placed themselves above the truth, above God; and like Yertle the Turtle, they are unwilling to give up their self made throne, and they do not care how crushing their weight is upon others...or that they are quite content to block the view for others. 
     
    I do not mean to sound bitter, I just want you to know God's frustration with us. 
    Oh yes, he gets frustrated with us.  We are not an easy lot to deal with, or explain things to.  Jesus even got frustrated with his own disciples, with the Jews, and others...my least favorite line in the Bible is so very true:  Be not weary in well doing, for we will reap a harvest, in due season, if we do not give up.  (Paraphrased, but it is Galations 6, I think verse 9.)
     
    Let me say this to you, because I hear your weariness too:  Do you love your wife even though you cannot possibly know all that there is to know about her at any given time?  Of course you do.  That is all that you need to 'know her' one day at a time, one moment at a time, and sometimes, you sought to know her more diligently than you did at other times, right? 
     
    That, is at least what all men and women of good conscience should owe to the Creator of all, just in case the testimony and the witness of Christians and the Bible are true...and what about the things that have happened in your life that you just cannot seem to forget, the things that seem to make you keep searching for answers, understanding, and insight...you know? 
     
    The only thing it can hurt is one's pride if they find (which they won't) that they were 'wrong' to ask to know him...or, a worse possibility for some, so horrible in fact that they simply refuse on 'principle', that they may truly be under the authority of one greater than them, one that knows everything, intimately, about all things...some, simply cannot humble themselves enough to entertain that one possibility...so indeed, it is their closed minds that actually prevents them from knowing God...and not their open minds, as they tell themselves, and each other.
     
    I loved your thoughtful response, and I had absolutely no intention of writing a comment of this length to you...but, it must have been 'meant to be', because it just flowed out of me as if it had a perfect will of it's own.  So, I hope it honors you to be so special to the Creator of the universe.  I think it is in Deuteronmy that it says of our separation from him, and all things 'meant' for a curse:
     
    Nevertheless the Lord thy God would not hearken unto Balaam; but the Lord thy God turned the curse into a blessing unto thee, because the Lord thy God loved thee!  Deut 23:5 KJV
     
    Acts 3:26 KJV says, "Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." 
     
    He wants to bless you beyondtheveil.  He truly does.  If you will only let him in, if you will only receive his blessing...it changes everything, absolutely everything.  And he tells you and shows you how to help others have their lives forever blessed and changed by God.  If you will only take the safest path to truth, and that is to risk humbling yourself and ask him...
     
    Please don't leave soulcast altogether beyondthevail...you have a purpose here that no one else can fill.  I, for one, would miss you terribly.
     
    just one, humble, truthsayer 
  • lfbno7 said on Jun 15, 2007....
    Are you aware of the argument that the Big Bang law, formerly a theory, requires the presence of God to make it work?

    I don't want to bore you if you've heard it already, but if you haven't, let me know.  I read a lot of physics books myself.
  • truthsayer said on May 12, 2008....
    Hello again lfbno7. Sorry that I missed this way back when. I have been reading my old blogs that mention "science"...moreover, creation science. I just now saw your comment. I would like to know when the Big Bang became a law instead of a theory. That is, if this will still show up in your old conversations...as I see that it has been a very long time!

    Thanks,

    Truth

  • lfbno7 said on May 14, 2008....
    Here's a report that argues that the Big Bang Theory's "proof" is no proof at all. It explains the issue, though. Maybe I'll find one that is more positive about the "proof". http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=362
  • lfbno7 said on May 14, 2008....
    Here's another one. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060913131049AAKamH1
  • truthsayer said on May 15, 2008....
    Thank you very much lfbno7. The link to the article and the other explanation add depth to this conversation. I must confess that since I am not an actual scientist...that I merely read and study about science...I cannot actually say whether I accept, or that I always understand all that they say...creation scientists (whether they are creation evolutionists, or young earth creationists), I find their studies and findings to be some of the most exciting and revolutionary findings I have EVER read. Thanks again. It was a good read.

    Truthsayer

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"Scientists are shedding light on an important, unsolved physics problem: the relationship between chaos theory -- which is based on 300-year-old Newtonian physics -- and the modern theory of quantum mechanics."...

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