Have we heard any other theories? Well! Glad you asked! hehehe
The creator of the comic strip “Dilbert” wrote a small book that as far as I know was only published online. It is entitled “God’s Debris,” and is the story of a package delivery man who happens by a “keeper of the keys,” in my words. This keeper is about to die, and apparently the package delivery person has been chosen to carry on this unknown truth about how the universe began. It is a long train of thought, and I twinge to reveal it here for fear of ruining the story for those who have yet to read it (which is just about everyone!) Anyhow, the theory goes: God, in His omnipotence and omniscience and all those other omni He possesses, has nothing left to experience other than death, and so the logical conclusion is that He commits suicide (the big bang) and the result is all this debris, of which we are a part! We are all God’s debris.
Now, I find this interesting because it explains a possibility, however fantastic it might be, that I would have never conjured, and that sort of creativity entertains me. I also find this theory interesting because as a classical realist (a definition of what sort of philosophy makes the most sense to me,) I identify with the likes of Aristotle, Plato and a guy who’s a little younger (died in 1647ish) named Benedictus Spinoza. Spinoza’s great work, published posthumously by his benefactor, is entitled “The Ethics,” and uses the principles of math and science to come to the conclusion that God and Nature are synonymous. He also claims there is no such thing as a miracle (they are merely acts of nature that we have no explanation for) and, surprisingly amongst all of this seemingly non-believer rhetoric, he states that the only person ever to live with a complete knowledge of God was Jesus, who actually possessed the mind of God!
I like curmudgeon's explanation of the only place randomness exists. hehehe
beyondtheveil (which my mind always does a double-take of, thinking it read beyondtheevil!) makes two good points: todays wisdom is tomorrow's history of the learning process, and the comment about how inadequate our five senses are.
Anyhow, good job truthsayer! Expand your mind! I’ll look for the link to God’s Debris if there is any interest. I may have to “republish” it from my harddrive onto my blog. Let me know if you guys are interested.
Love,
buck
Thanks for the insights curmudgeon.
Did you know that there are "mysterious" blue shifted stars too? I thought that was provocative.
Information overload, over stimulated...noisy brains, yes, I agree ; )
No one in science knows what would have initiated the "big bang" do they? We can only make educated guesses I suppose.
I will have to read more about String Theory. There is so much information, isn't there? What is it the Bible says about how fast knowledge will increase in the "end"?
Thanks again,
truthsayer
Buck, your description is exactly what Frank Herbert described in the Dune Trilogy. In it, the Dune Messiah fathers two children with precient knowledge, and the boy child, due to understanding the cell memory of all of his ancestors, he knows that he has to do just what you said, that the only the logical conclusion is that "He commits suicide (the big bang) and the result is all this debris, of which we are a part!"
You might really enjoy it, if you haven't read it yet.
I have read this: Spinoza's, “The Ethics,” which "uses the principles of math and science to come to the conclusion that God and Nature are synonymous." It has been a long time though.
You said: "the only person ever to live with a complete knowledge of God was Jesus, who actually possessed the mind of God!" This is true. We have the mind of Christ though, thank God : )
Expand my mind? I think I would be better off using the mind of Christ, as he promised me. I think that is expanded and focused at the same time.
Thanks for your insights buck.
truthsayer
Ed, Ed, Ed...you said, AGAIN, "truthsayer: if you truly were a scientist, you'd understand that the word "theory" has a very specific meaning in science that it lacks in its less strict and general usage. i've said this before. your continued bad faith use of the word calls into question either your intellectual honesty or factual honesty."
So Ed-buddy, I asked for your insights. Since you are a scientist, and I am not (I merely have my Bachelor of Science, and some Master's hours that are expired ; ) Please, take this opportunity to enlighten me. I asked for your insights, and I asked for correction...please, you have the floor...
I await your insights and your corrections. You won't hurt my feelings at all.
truthsayer
Hi Kelly.
Are you saying that evolution is "an outlook based (purely?) on observable phenomena"? As opposed to God who you believe is "not observable"? See, whether you like it or not, I think it takes more "faith" to accept evolution, as based on the current evidence, than it does to believe in a Creator. But I know that you are quite dedicated to your own beliefs, so I would not hope to persuade you to my beliefs.
I am not all that "religious" in fact. My relationship with God...not that we were discussing that in this blog, but, anyway, my relationship with God is based on my faith, yes, but you don't understand what faith is, I do have evidence, that you cannot understand.
You say that creationism and intelligent design are beliefs, only. I think the creation scientists would beg to differ. I am not very interested in the Intelligent Design Theory either. Probably for different reasons than yours.
Anyway, thank you for your insights.
truthsayer
There is so much information out there, I could see how it could be difficult to decide if such an "accident" could happen or if it happened with a purpose. I now believe in what works, when we live our lives with purpose and see God as the creator, that works. I mean if someone needs to recover from drug abuse or alcoholism, they use the same 12 steps that have worked for numerous others, so why wouldn't I use the skills/ knowledge taught in the Bible that have worked for many others.
There is evidence that the Earth is not going to exist forever because the Hydrogen in it is going to be used up faster than it could possibly be replenished. And that leads us to question of how long have we been consuming the Hydrogen and whether God could create a planet that seems to be aged, like he created an adult man and woman, to put an end to the question of whether the planet was accidently formed from some random gases in the cosmos that took a billion years to get to the point where life could exist. Again, there is evidence for all theories and beliefs because nobody wants to believe in something that could not be explained so it really is a complex question.
the american heritage science dictionary (2002 edition) quoth:
a set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena. most theories that are accepted by scientists have been repeatedly tested by experiments and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
First, let me say that I am inspired by all of the brilliance in these comments. I believe that you have all shown yourselves to be thoughtful and expressing your true positions with such candor, that I am forced to take this to prayer, before going on with my comments.
You know, that there are certain people who have commented in this blog, that probably consider themselves to be brilliant, or at least intellectually gifted in some way; but I am impressed with the insights and intellectual honesty of several that probably do not consider themselves to be brilliant, but are humble and self effacing.
I thank all of you for your heart felt comments, and some for your research. I hope and pray that I can answer, or comment to your comments, in a satisfactory way.
Please forgive me for taking so long to comment back to you all...but, suffice to say that I am, at this very moment, indulging myself with a large glass of whole raw milk, and a big piece of home made chocolate birthday cake, with chocolate frosting!
I shall comment to each person, as best I can. I realize now that I am a scientist of sorts, ed. I was recently offered a graduate assistanceship and entrance into the PhD program (at my former university, or at Kansas, or other university with programs within my discipline)...and I guess, for the confidence of those I am about to comment to, that must count for something.
I am not prone to speaking of things out of turn, or season, or that I have not researched for myself. I am not perfect, but I am intellectually and morally sincere, and if I do not know something, I will not claim to know it for certain. We all have to be allowed to question, and to "think outloud"...at least, you can in my blog ; ) I'll make sure of it.
truthsayer
HOTAKA:
I believe we would be fast friends too. I do not require that my friends agree with me. I used to lead salons, first online, and then in book stores. Understanding is much more important to me than agreement. My favorite radio show was a magazine format...loved it, more discussion. The other one was an hour, and it was harder for me...couldn't delve too deeply into subjects and they wanted more of an argumentative, self righteous approach.
I love coffee in any form, btw!
Anyway : )
I am sorry about your early experiences with a Christian church. You may have read my own prejudices against Fundamentalist Christians, years ago.
Few Christians have a clue what to do with me either, if it is any comfort! But I would encourage you to develop a technique similar to mind mapping (in case you have heard of it). I have always had those 3D maps in my head...silly me, I thought we all thought that way!
I suppose it has to do with the 'abstract reasoning' thing I have mentioned before. I tend to take information and automatically compare it to stored information searching for relationships and outright conflicts. I do not discard the 'seeming' conflicts, but store them for later recall and comparison to new information, as I become aware of it. If that makes any sense. I have had to do that in all areas of my life.
I, of course, know God personally, experientially, in an observable way, and also in a scholarly way. So I have all of the things that I know, stored much like BOYZMOM...I am seeking usefulness, and efficacy.
That way, when someone tells me that I have to accept evolution in order to be a scientist, for instance; or that I have to accept their understanding of the Word of God, in order to be a Christian...I am not in conflict.
I have already claimed the Biblical promise that Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit will teach me directly...so I do not have to rely on man, for anything. If you would like to know the scriptures I claimed in order to asked God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to teach me directly (circumventing the error of man), I would be glad to provide them...merely ask me, and I will list them in here.
I should like to read the book, Hyperspace, by Robert Shapiro. I can add it to my ever growing library! After receiving the offer from my old university, I renewed my interest in my old college books, and others that I had read, and some that I had purchased, but had never made the time to read!
My doctor laughs at my choice of "casual reading" ; ) Wait till she sees the ones my family just bought for me! I have six new books, most are about quantum physics, and a few about nanotechnology, the apocalypse (from the stand point of current scientific research...not religion), and one about the force of Islam and Christianity during the 'end times'. I am also rereading some of my classics that are now out of print. I am busy, but happy and quite interested in my research again ; )
Your "final comment" HOTAKA, I am reserving for another blog, so bear with me! I have done quite a bit of research on this, and I think you will find it surprisingly consistent. I love it when I am surprised at what I find. It even fits in with many other comments in this blog. Devolving? Many say that we are. Hold that thought, ok?
truthsayer
KELLY, you might be surprised at some of the things I have found in my research lately. I will be posting some of it soon. I agree with you about the suicide bombers. But, you may not feel the compassion for them, that I do. Some of them simply are not driving their own cars, you know? Deception is a powerful and seductive delusion.
(btw, I acknowledge and honor your right to believe in athiesm, or to believe that there is no God/god....please take this in the spirit in which it is meant. You know my beliefs too...so no disrespect, either way, ok?)
I feel compassion, specifically, for the ones that have been kept in isolation, and are raised like robots, unallowed to question, or learn about any faith other than Islam. Women and children are so very oppressed in their culture, and that is an indicator, for me, of their misunderstanding of God Almighty (who is not Allah, btw)...but that is another post too.
We were discussing the Big Bang Theory, weren't we? ; )
MOM:
Yes mom. You said: Why can't we say we have science because of God?...Is it possible that God is the greatest scientist that ever was?
As a matter of fact, Francis Bacon is considered to be the father of the scientific method, and he was a devout Believer.
I copied this just for you:
By Henry Morris
Reprinted (with permission) from:
Men of Science, Men of God
pages 13,14
Francis Bacon, Lord Chancellor of England, is usually considered to be the man primarily responsible for the formulation and establishment of the so-called “scientific method” in science, stressing experimentation and induction from data rather than philosophical deduction in the tradition of Aristotle.
Bacon’s writings are also credited with leading to the founding of the Royal Society of London.
Sir Francis was a devout believer in the Bible. He wrote: “There are two books laid before us to study, to prevent our falling into error; first, the volume of the Scriptures, which reveal the will of God; then the volume of the Creatures, which express His power.”
*******
Opposite the title page of Darwin’s Origin of Species appears the following quotation:
‘To conclude, therefore, let no man … think or maintain that a man can search too far or be too well studied in the book of God’s word, or in the book of God’s works; divinity or philosophy; but rather let men endeavor an endless progress or proficience in both.’
The author is Francis Bacon, and the quotation is from his 1605 book The Advancement of Learning. Here is the classical statement that there are two ways of understanding the character of God, through the Bible, and through the world he has made.
Evolution the Great Debate, Vernon Blackmore & Andrew Page, Lion Publishing, 1989, p. 22
Now, as to your comment on matter, I have some information that you may find interesting, on a coming blog about the 'origins of' matter. It is more about quantum physics and God. I think you'll find it interesting. I haven't even touched on the meaning of "matter" yet ; ) Hold that thought mom!
You said: The glory of God is intelligence. Think about this. The Bible says a lot about the Glory of God and POWER...and that is the one thing that evolutionists, naturalists, and mainstream scientists cannot understand or explain. What kind of power runs this vast machine we call "universe"? What kind of power runs the micro and nano worlds that we now know exist in the universe, and even in our own bodies? It is 'against all odds' that people continue to believe that this intricate and often wacky world just 'happened' and now, 'runs itself'.
I have few posts coming up on this and other related topics. I could cut and paste them here, but my comments are already getting loooong ; )
Thank you for your comments mom. Please keep coming back. We each have a very special and completely unique part to play, and special unique knowledge that we have to share...it is our Christian duty, as the Bible says. Don't sell yourself short lady. Fancy words are just that...fancy, but no better than simple understandable words! I prefer the latter, but have to walk in both worlds...help me stay 'clear' and 'sane' in this jargon-saturated world, will you? : )
truthsayer
BOYZMOM:
I agree with you whole-heartedly. Please see my uppercase reference to your nickname, in the comment to HOTAKA. You cite the reasons perfectly, for my having a minor in Psychology, and a major in Human Communication Theory.
The former focuses too much on mental 'masturbation'. They will spend entire careers on one research path (not unlike most professors with a research specialty), but they will continue researching a thing, and even continue to be a proponent of it's use; when they know, full well, that it is a flawed theory, or concept, or instrument!!! I found it to be ridiculous. My best example is called Management By Obectives (MBO). It doesn't work. They require that you learn it, know it, study it, they even test you on it. But, they know that it doesn't work...it never has. How dumb is that? I don't need information that we know doesn't work, failed theories, in my own personal hard drive, you know? : )
God works. Jesus works. The Holy Spirit works. God's WORD works. It is the ONLY thing I have found to be flawless. He is the only Teacher that is omniscient. Why would I want to have friends, peers, or other men/women as my supreme teachers? I have had many teachers, but only one Teacher. : )
Others may disagree, but they do not know Him, do they? So we cannot fault them, really.
I thought this comment of yours was particularly interesting too:
"...whether God could create a planet that seems to be aged, like he created an adult man and woman", and I confess, I do not remember ever heaing this from anyone else! Congratulations on this very original insight. I really appreciate it. Why is it that we are always trying to fit God into our own little anthropomorphic, and egocentric little box?
I try not to get into the timing thing with Creation, because, like you said, there is so much research, that it can be mind boggling. I only address this if the Lord says that it is important to the particular discussion.
Charles Capps and his daughter, Annette Capps, which, btw provided my first confirmation that quantum physics points to the absolute truth of God's Word; they both believe that there has been more than one Creation, inbetween Genesis Chapter One and Genesis Chapter Two. I suppose that "time" as we know it, would not have began in the Creation account, before the sun and the moon were created and in position. Before that, if we could "be there" we may have seen Creation in "God's Time"...
and...
Out of respect for the Creation Scientists, I mention it, but do not argue it. They are the experts and they feel that we "sell out" as Christians when we diverge at all, from God's Word. They feel strongly that Genesis One is telling us that the earth isn't nearly as old as evolutionists say, but much younger. There is debate over the length of days, the shape of time, quickening of time. There is relevance here though, for the Big Bang Theory. But not enough time or space (tongue in cheek) in this particular blog to discuss it, I fear ; )
Concluding my comment to you, you say that "it really is a complex question." And that is the truth.
Thank you BOYZMOM, for your insights as well. Please keep coming back?
truthsayer
MOM, faith in God is a concept, a reality, that KELLY is not able to, or is unwilling to, accept or even explore. He just can't/won't. No matter. At least he still has a sense of humor ; )
KELLY, tooth fairy? Do you have children yet? I suppose not ; )
So MOM, it is your fault that my youngest left her tooth in the "tooth box" a few nights ago, and she got her $5 bill (inflation since my day I suppose ; ) but YOU FORGOT to take her tooth??? I suppose you were too tired to 'fairy' well, because you were up too late with your soulcast party friends again, huh?!?
She decided to leave it in the box again, an see if she could get enough money for a 'better', more expensive Barbie! lol...
Thanks!
truthsayer
BEYONDTHEVEIL:
You said:
The others do not as is the case of the scientist I mentioned by the name of Lisa Randall. Like so many others, she loves science, but it is not out to disprove God but to search for the truth as she can find it.
I think I shall have to add this lady scientist to my library as well. Any books in particular that you think I should purchase?
Second, I don't believe there is any such thing as God "using the matter that was already there". God is everything, and the reason for and the existence of everything.
Thank you for all the links you provided ED!
I thoroughly enjoyed reading them, and I confess, I did some bookmarking and "tagging" for later reference. Great online dictionary references.
I hate to dissappoint you though...there wasn't anything that surprised me. I am using theory in both the general sense, and the scientific sense. I apologize though, if I sound sacreligious to you. I have studied so many theories, that I just do not 'hold them up' as 'high' as you may. Theories come and theories go. Knowledge increases...but too often, old, accepted, out moded and poorly supported theories seem to stay in play, when, at best, they need to be honestly revamped to accomodate new research and new data.
Darwin had a lot of problems and conflicts, personally and within his own theory. I don't have any problem at all with teaching it in schools, as one theory. There are other theories though. And there are variations on the old theories...there are some theories, like the way a physicist would view evolution, that although fascinating and more plausible to someone like me, they would probably be diffucult to teach in K-12.
Whether you or KELLY like it or not, there is ample Creation Science available. As long as public schools and the minds of our impressionable and innocent children are the battle ground for humanists, evolutionists and outright deceivers, at best, promoters of incomplete information...my children will never attend a public school again. I won't have them being taught lies. I grew up in Nebraska...Nebraska man was just one deception. There are many more.
Now, do you have any insights to offer us regarding the Big Bang Theory?
I would love to hear them.
Thanks again!
truthsayer
Hey MOM:
I found another reference for you!
This is a list, from just one website, of scientists (more than I could ever write here)...old/ancient and modern, that believe in God and the Bible! It also tells if they believe in an 'old earth' or not. This seems to be a hot debate, always.
Here is the link:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/default.asp
They also have an awesome search engine to look up answers to all of your questions at this link:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp
BOYZMOM, you might enjoy this too. In fact ALL OF YOU, well, most of you will probably enjoy it very much. Besides, the internet is somewhat anonymous...no one will know that you have looked up anything on the websites I give you...but you! ; )
I confess that I don't use it as often as I should. I tend to wing it from my own books, knowledge and the Bible. But I really should use it more. I tell my kids to, why don't I do it too?!
truthsayer
MOM...ohhhh! No wonder when we sprinkled it on our heads (are you seeing this? ; ) we were not able to FLY as we usually are! What a disappointed mess we were!
truth : P`
OK--this is not some intelligently planned, organic, soulful expression that so many have spoken so well on the subject.
This is I have a migraine, in a very cranky mood, and feeling opinionated.
Let me first say that this is a subject that has always "burned my cookies" (trying to keep a G rating here). I was brought up believing in God, and in the theory of Creation. I did not accept things in my life as a little robot, in fact, I moved away from most of the things I'd learned in early life. But to me, this was not negotiable.
BTW--that suicide theory is disgusting. If I decided to start believing in Evolution, that discounts the entire first book of the Bible. So if that's not truth, maybe the entire book is not true????? And I'm far from being an angel, but for me to say that would for me, be disrespecting God, and my PERSONAL relationship would then begin to falter.
OK, so many some sort of Evolution existed, but only through the animals, humans, and plants that were already here!! And even so--how does the Big Bang theory explain anything anyway?? Apart from the argument that that's what created the planets, solar system, our Earth. Then where did every living thing come from in this theory?? I might grant that some form of plant life could've survived and begin to florish. But what about animals??? Human beings??? I mean did the near dead body of old Lucy (said to be the first human being) just roll out of some rubble left over from the Big B and start up on the piece of earth they call Africa??? I think not.
And the whole idea that man is descended from apes???? ha They are a fascinating species and very, very close to so many characteristics, however their genetics are not human.
We don't all have to agree--I find it interesting to hear of so many different beliefs.
I'm just saying , human beings make everything so difficult--blind faith, that's what fuels my beliefs--blind faith--simple.
BEYONDTHEVEIL:
Thank you for the reference. I appreciate it. I will get a copy. I have been getting my used books on eBay...much cheaper than Amazon. I will do a search for it soon.
Does it, by chance, list the dimensions, with easy to understand examples? I have got to find that list! That is the one that says the sixth dimension would be like eating an orange from the inside out. I love that....it sounded just like Jesus saying that the kingdom of God existed and would come from within us.
Thanks BEYOND.
truthsayer
HOLLY-GO-LIGHTLY:
I am so sorry about that migraine. Be healed in Jesus name. I love the Charles Capps books on healing scriptures. I take authority over my body, every day.
Now...let me first say that you are right. Faith is the name of the game, that is not a game. It is everything. It is so much more, even, than most Christians know. We can do so much more than we are currently doing with our faith.
But, I digress, you are right. Even for the doubters, they eventually must ask for and receive faith. It isn't a enough to intellectualize God, by any means. It is just that our society has so glorified science, facts, theories, categorization, nomenclature, taxonomies and classifications...in short, we have named and measured things almost to death!
It is high time for humans, to at least, recognize that there is 'proof' about God all around us. He is the air we breath and the love we are able to share with each other.
Even athiests love, now. But what happens when they die? The only time that they have, to "get it" like you have gotten it, is now. Their forever depends on it. So, I use this quantum mechanics and other scientific theories, to show them that God, like MOM and BOYZMOM and so many others have said...is in everything. Everything lives because He gave it life, and when it dies, well...that's the rub, isn't it?
I hope that you did not think that I was saying that Christians that believe the Word of God are like little robots, do you??? I am not. I do urge Christians to become informed though...as you can see, few in the church can answer their (athiests/agnostics/disillusioned Christians or former Christians, etc.) questions, or help them to find someone or some source to answer their questions.
Faith is power. Unfortunately, they do not usually understand that. They will even (predictably) say that they have no interest in power. That, of course, is not true. Everyone has experienced the Power of the Universe, in one way or another. Even ed. He admits that he recognized the power/glory of the Holy Spirit, on at least one occasion.
Evolution/adaptation, is interesting to consider. I find that things seem to evolve, but in actuality, they are like hotaka said...devolving. There is an ongoing debate, but I am amazed that people that have been exposed to the word, and its absolute truth, and have understood it, can still try to make evolution, as a theory of origins, fit into the Bible.
If the Big Bang was caused by the Voice and Word of God, when He said, LET THERE BE...then I can understand that it may be possible. But frankly, there is much evidence, like some others said, that it may fall by the wayside. There are stars and galaxies that are clearly not distributed randomly. There are blue shifted stars that they have "seen" with the Hubble Telescope (I think that is where I read it, in an article about the trouble with Hubble ; ) that do not fit the ever expanding theory of the original Big Bang theory. Also, we now know from quantum physics that the universe is not infinite, but finite.
BTW, HOLLY-GO-LIGHTLY, you might be interested to know that "Lucy" was a hoax, a lie. Most of the "evidence" should be called evi-dense ; ) But it does have some things that can be re-worked and made to be useful. It wasn't a new theory with Darwin anyway. I have a book from 1924 that lists many others, many centuries before that supposed the same things he did. His biographers said that he had some mental problems too.
Anyway, keep the faith HOLLY-GO-LIGHTLY; on this, we agree for sure ; )
truthsayer
You are most welcome MOM. I know what you mean. I think there has been such a false-politically correct-taboo regarding faith and science or faith and knowledge in general. I think this is the ultimate prejudice. To use this country's freedom, paid for by the Blood of Jesus, to try to shut up Christians...with the tenets of their own faith, to be the most bizarre and satanic thing I can imagine. But then, there's nothing new about that, is there? Satan always tries to use God's own words against him, doesn't he? A sneaky devil he is...but defeated, nonetheless.
Thank God.
By the word of our testimony and the blood of the lamb.
Your friend,
truthsayer
MOM, one last thing. There is one thing I hate more than arguments...and that is indifference, my own, or others. I have been guilty of this myself, so many times. Our aversion to conflict, can keep us from living in the victory that He died to give to us. You cannot be a light shining in the darkness, if you keep yourself under a bowl. But then, you know that, don't you? Don't we all...but how much easier it would be ; )
I have seen you take on some challenges in here, and you did it with truth and grace. What more can we ask of ourselves? We often feel alone, but we aren't. That "Elijah" syndrome is easy to come by, especially if we tend to hang out with "worldly" friends. Maybe curmudgeon is right...maybe we all need to find each other, and fellowship more.
I have more interesting websites that I will be posting soon. I was rather amazed at how much is out there. When I quote from my books, you all have to take my word for it...or go to a library! We have such a short attention span, I decided that I had better use internet references as much as possible!
Thanks for coming back. I'll see you ~O-O~ soon, and I look forward to every word.
truth
thanks for the heads up on a couple things, and no,no I was not intending the comment about not being a robot to you, because I don't think you reason that way. It was more like a disclaimer to anyone who would say "oh, you were brought up in the church? so you just followed along? didn't have the curiosity or motivation to question the church? ever thought outside the box??--
I'm sure you get it. I just find science as an intruder when it comes to this subject. And if the Big Bang theory is truth--then where are heaven and hell--do they not exist?? I mean, the two just don't mesh. How can someone believe that a Big Bang created everything and then believe in heaven and hell as well? Its preposterous(sp?) to even think that way. Or, are most people that support the Big Bang deal the kind of people who believe there is nothing after life. Just :beep: and the light goes out and someone piles a load of dirt over you and that's that?? Well, that's a whole other post!!
Holly
lol HOLLY-GO-LIGHTLY!
Yes, there are a lot of assumptions made about the intelligence, creativity and ingenuity of Christians ; ) We know that it isn't so, however.
The Big Bang Theory is how they believe the cosmos began. For me, since I am a believer and I am in nanotechnology, I know, that I know, that I know, and I can assure others, that God can do in the twinkling of an eye, what it would take us millions of years to understand. And we would never, ever understand everything about "how" He did it.
After all, the Bible told us from the beginning, that the world was a sphere...and look how long it took "us" to figure out that it was true ; )
Science isn't the enemy. Sir Isaac Newton was a devout Christian, and he merely observed gravity, and other attributes of God's system design. He studied the Creators creation, that's all.
The creation scientists are very interesting though. I would encourage anyone that hasn't checked out the various websites for creation science, to do so. I am glad that your faith is so strong Holly...I wish everyone would receive that kind of faith. You are blessed.
God Speed,
truthsayer
BOYZMOM:
I am glad you checked them out. They both have children's sites as well. We use them to balance out the worldly influence they get, even from TV and friends.
Thanks for stopping back in to my little cosmic diner ; )
truth
HOTAKA my new friend.
Almost all of the things that you mentioned, about the Christians that you have known, are sort of sad to me.
If anyone has "evangelized" in any way other than to bring you the "good news", or the gospel of Jesus Christ, then I would like to apologize and ask your forgiveness. If you had not accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, and they got into all of the other, deeper things...well, I hope you can get past that. All of the deeper things are wonderful. They are things that pleasure God to share with us, and that we enjoy learning about from God.
The only thing that true Christians surely have in common (as our opinions and interpretations are many), is belief on, reliance on, and trust in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, born of a virgin, suffered for us, was crucified as the only possible atonement for our sins, He died, and rose from the dead on the third day. If you accept that as a possibility (in quantum mechanics, a possibility is one possible universe ; ) then a probability, and finally as truth...then you repent, confess it, and receive Him. That's it. You have taken the first step to forever. How that is so, is not something that God requires that you figure out. It is so, because every word that has ever, or will ever proceed from His mouth, is true. He is not a man that He should lie, argue, bicker, doubt, mislead or be misled. He is the only One that I count on or with ; )
I love your comments in here, and I can really see your wheels turning. It is about faith...and the closest science will ever get to understanding faith at this time, and it will never fully explain it, is quantum physics...thus my titles in this little cosmic cafe...glimpse, glimmer, glance...etc. For what we see here is in a mirror darkly...but there...oh hotaka...and I have been given a glimpse, seen a glimmer, and those are the only experiences of my "past" that are ever present with me. I wish I could make you see, what I have seen. I have often thought about writing about it: The experiences God has gifted me with. But some of them, as you say, simply defy words. I only hope that you and others will feel the Holy Spirit touching you with this truth, as I write and you read.
Thank you for the name to the Robert Shapiro book and the other one too...I will check them both out. I have quite a wish list now. : )
Please, read, write, postulate, wax poetic. Just keep coming back for a cuppa joe and some good conversations.
Thanks for being here with me today.
truthsayer
kelly is stating an important truth though mom, whether we like it or not. There are some that need, or demand signs wonders and miracles in order to believe. It is up to us to learn to walk in the kind of faith that is able to manifest God's kingdom all around us. Jesus said these things will follow them that believe...
I think you and I had better get right, get real and get busy, don't you? I for one think kelly and SeanR are worth it. If they are like the doubting Thomas' of our day, then lets give them what they need so they can get onto their work in the Lord, like Thomas did. I have met and claim as friends East Indians that know that it was the apostle Thomas that came to India and spread the Gospel. What if kelly or SeanR have a ministry like that awaiting them? And God is counting on us, to bring them the Gospel of Jesus Christ in a very real and tangible way that they cannot deny?
truthsayer
Oh but I do talk to God kelly, and God talks to me as well. I have my faith AND my evidence. But I understand what you are saying. There are people though, that may have blind faith. I think one young lady said that in this very blog. I however, asked Him to make Himself real, and known to me. I asked, and He answered.
He always answers a true heart. It is just that so many hurts have happened, so many dissappointments, that sometimes, others need help finding Him. It isn't that they are any less valuable or more valuable than anyone else, it is just that we have been so indoctrinated, by false doctrine really, that we need to open up our hearts, open up our awareness and first, stop denying those little glimpses, those glimmers that catch our attention and then, if ultimately, if we don't pursue them, they seem to dissappear from our awareness, like they never existed.
That is how they first saw the electrons you know. They only caught glimpses out of the corner of their eye. Most people would have shrugged it off...and maybe some scientists had...but then they started talking amongst themselves. They realized that they had all had those experiences, and they kept looking, until they learned more and more.
Jesus knew that we needed to see, hear and know more than just what others told us. He came and lived and died and lived again. There are many secular historical accounts of this too. You too were created for great things kelly. I promise.
How do you mean "atavistic" in relation to believing in God, or faith in God?
truthsayer
Please do that sometime TAM. I hope you will. I won't be around her for a few days. I have a town hall meeting with Shell Oil and others in the energy industry tonight, then another conference on Th and Fr. But please, comment while I am gone, and I will surely read your comments when I return.
God speed,
truthsayer
Hmmm. Well, I had two radio shows. One fell into my lap from the Hands of God. The second was my fleshly attempt of conforming God's plans to my own ; )
The first was a blast. It was a four hour magazine show. My co-host was a very carnal guy, and I was able to make fun of him or, to have fun with him ; ) without him even knowing, most of the time! He called me "avant garde" (sp). But, all of the so called, weird or fringy topics I researched, have now come to pass. Like all the national parks land we gave away to the United Nations, has all been reclaimed by this president. It was one of the first things he did.
There were other topics that I didn't plan, but that were very important to the folks in the area. It seems there was a big ufo crash on a ranch nearby, and we got a lot of calls about that...no matter what the topic was, it seemed. I saw that you mentioned the nephilim, so I decided it was safe enough to mention it to you : )
My professional print media experience came from marketing, advertising etc...in various nonprofit agencies. That and I wrote for Cox Online newspapers. I have published articles and essays, etc. I think I told you that I am working on writing a book, but I am quite prayerful about the direction of that book. I have written many things, since I have been writing for most of my adult life...but I really don't want to be "known" for all of them, you know? ; ) I have a pretty bawdy sense of humor that I really have to keep an eye on : )
I have done a lot of public speaking, and teaching. I worked in the communication department while I was at university. I often think of going back. I liked academia. I do some communication consulting. I am a certified mediator and have some other certifications and such.
My only real contacts in the literary world are from our former church family. They have a publishing company, but as I said, they really don't publish much anymore. I keep seeing more and more of their regular authors going to be published elsewhere. I have thought about writing some childrens books for them though. My children say I make up amazing stories, and there really aren't many good, virtuous children's books anymore. I like good old fashioned values. You know?
We had a publishing company of our own, shortly after we were married. I wrote for the paper, and did most of the editing for our writers too. It had previously had some serious new age influences in the paper and in the community...they weren't too happy with the changes we made! So, we had to reinvent the wheel in advertising.
We have thought about reviving it though, recently. I just don't know right now. It would require our selling our nanotechnology business...and there are some other issues right now.
Did that answer your questions? I would probably do the radio show, not like the one with the more popular station, that I 'arranged', but one like the one God set up. It was really fun, and it was a back door ministry too. I got to witness to a lot of people that otherwise I might never have met.
I won't be on much longer today. If you are on here, I am really sorry it took me a week to get back to you.
God speed,
truthsayer
See why you gotta love these guys? ; ) You can't shake my faith man, but I sure appreciate the good thoughts : )
See what progress we have made over the last however many months? You guys used to just hate us Christians : ) Now we are sharing humor...and good natured humor at that.
I have known some pretty depressed athiests though. I am related to a few. We could exchange stories sometime. My oldest brother was in seminary. He even pastored a small church and was really good at his job. When it came time to forgive our father though, and to believe in healing or restoration; his doubts and his anger overpowered him. He also had problems with perversion. I don't know which was worse for him. But in the end, he dropped out and chose athiesm instead. He became much like the predator that had acosted him.
Now, he is dying of prostate cancer that has mestasticized (sp). I am praying for him of course. But having believed once, and turned from it...well, I can only hope, for his sake, that he never really believed at all...
He studied psychology and admitted that he did it primarily just to figure himself out, and fix himself, because he never trusted anyone else to do it. So, maybe that's what he did with religion...maybe he just looked at it as a school of thought, that might help him figure out himself.
See kelly, I know my brother. He was my favorite big brother. I know the things that happened to him as a boy...not all of them, but I know quite a bit. I watched his character devolve when he left what little faith he had, into what he is today. Granted, his case is extreme.
You would probably like him though. You would probably like my other brother too. They seem friendly enough...gregarious even. They might even seem generous and loving. But if you ask them who they live for, they will each say themselves...my oldest brother might include his wife in his life/death plans...but not if you ask him the real bottom line.
Neither of them understand the patience and the deep love I have for others. They think I am crazy and that I am too nice, too kind, and thus, I must be deluded by my beliefs. They are both athiests...well, the younger one says that he is agnostic...he has a bumper sticker that says "Proud to be a pagan."
He says he believes in something, but he doesn't know what. He says the catholic church is his sworn enemy. He believes that Christianity is the biggest hoax ever played on mankind. He doesn't believe in Jehovah/Yahweh/Yahuweh and he doesn't believe in Jesus Christ. He too has some serious issues. Unforgiveness and a fascination with perversion.
We all have extremely high IQ's in our family. Except for my sister. Who is driven by her emotions, and admits it. She thinks that is her intelligence. I think somebody just did a test about that on a blog...her Emotional Quotient is her claim to fame. Both my brothers do what she says to do though. Pretty weird, huh? ; ) Apparently she has blackmailed my dad before...so, maybe she has something on them too : ( Who knows.
So, kelly, I have been around the block with athiests too. I like you and SeanR very much. I don't know AntiMatter or StupidGenius very well yet...but they seem nice too. The one that calls herself MoonMommy seems sweet as well. This isn't about whether a person is 'nice' or not...as in cordial, even thoughtful. It is about something entirely different. It is this. If you had to draw a heirarchy of the universe and everything in it...who, or what is at the top? Even Darwinism has heirarchies of complexity. So, who or what is at the top of your heirarchy of complexity? If you say nature, even with a capital "N"...I think that's a cop out.
Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate your humor. But as I have told you before, I have had both visions and visitations. You could never shake my faith, because I have proof. Not that I needed proof of His existence, but in His great mercy, and, for His own purposes, He has given me wonderful experiences and information that cannot be refuted.
He once prevented two witches from moving, when He had given me a message for them. He held them in their place until they heard, and had to say that they understood all that He had said to them, through me. That's power. I couldn't move either, by the way. The annointing was so strong upon me, that it actually bent my body. It was a very important message.
When they admitted that they heard and understood, their feet came off the ground like a magnet had just released them! He arranged one more meeting with them several months later, in a WalMart. My daughter and I were talking about something leather that had a stain on it, and that I wasn't sure what to use to remove it...we were in the laundry section.
Someone behind me (who couldn't see my face) started offering me advise on a cleanser she said I may not know about...she said, "sorry for eaves dropping, but I have a suggestion...something that is a vey powerful cleanser, maybe the most powerful cleanser...but BLOOD is a POWERFUL CLEANSER, you might try that..."
I slowly turned around and said in that space that only the Holy Spirit can create, where everything else just fades out and the two people are the only thing that matters...and I said, "Why yes it is! BLOOD IS THE MOST POWERFUL CLEANSER. You are most certainly right about that!"
The dark skinned woman turned as white as the other red headed woman! You could have knocked them both over with a feather when they saw who I was...and delivering yet another message by Divine Appointment, about The Blood!!!
So, my friend, I have witnesses all over the place to His Power. He is strong in me. He brings His Power everywhere I go. I could never deny the supernatural, I walk in it everyday. Anyone that is around me for very long experiences it too.
As a matter of fact, you will see a blog soon about just this topic. Writing this, to you, today, has confirmed it.
For that, I thank you kelly!
And nothing can shake my Love either. Because I know what it's all about. Gotta love ya!
Best wishes man.
truthsayer
Yes kelly. I have known some Christians that struggle with depression too. But I have seen many delivered and healed of their depression. I don't know that you can say that about many nonbelievers...being healed and set free. More of them make their "peace" with it, get on meds that they say help, at least some. I would like to see them set free and healed as well. I am not speaking of your typical situational depression...I am talking about people that have battled chronic and sytemic depression for decades or for their whole lives. My brother has a counter full of meds from the VA, and he is still depressed. Last I knew, they finally reviewed his file and realized what all they had him on, and made him go off of just about everything. He was having a heck of a time getting off of them. He isn't looking for any 'alternatives' to his suffering either, last I knew.
Whoops...gotta run. I'll be back.
More later,
truthsayer
You said:
I'm free to revel in science and nature and my understanding that all we have in this world is each other to depend on. You might try that last thought on sometime. It's the ultimate in personal responsibility.
And you might like to check out my posts and comments on Interdependence ; )
Talk to you later kelly. Thanks for posting.
truthsayer