• ALIENated said on Apr 01, 2007....

  You might want to attend Sunday school more often, and stay for church. You have it so wrong, I really would not know where to start.

• silverwhisper said on Apr 01, 2007....

  you've got some ideas i agree with--that jesus's acts are not entirely consistent with what the jews expected of their messiah--but the law is still useful (and only useful IMHO as i have written previously) in identifying jesus as the fulfillment of jewish prophecy.
  
  ed

• boyzmom said on Apr 02, 2007....

  As times changed, so did people. Jesus encouraged people to let love guide them and to use their mind  instead of following rules, laws and regulations that could simply be summarized as using common sense or could be misinterpretted or could be wrong. In today's society we use a lot of these ideas, that if it something can be misinterpretted by a reasonable person, then the person who misinterprets a contract can be found not liable for upholding the contract. If someone is not using common sense or is mean, then they are deserving what they get. Jehovah may have been a bully but look at what he had to deal with.

• shiningstar said on Apr 02, 2007....

  The fallacy of the statement "what he had to deal with"  is consistant with the "Stockholm Syndrome".  It is always the one being abused fault.  That is also what keeps the abuse of women as in domestic violence alive and well.  As for "going to Sunday School"  I did my 40 years there but once I decided to read for myself instead of just believing their interpretations of what Jesus and Jehovah said and did. A whole different story emerges when one begins at the beginning and reads the Bible straight through with no outside influences.  I wanted to know.  That was my passion.I layed down what I had been raised to believe and read as if I had never read any part of it before. I rewrote it the 2nd time around.2000 pages then I did it again.  I devoted many years to learning what I share with you. My comments are not two second reactions to what has been said.  They are long comptemplated answers to my questions. I ask only that people not throw them away but comptemplate for themselves.

• boyzmom said on Apr 02, 2007....

  Disciplining children isn't abuse so why would you say followers of Jehovah were abused? They were children who didn't always listen. When they did listen, they were rewarded and when they didn't there were consequences. Domestic violence is not the equivalent of what these people suffered. These people were made stronger by trials and their faith was tested. Victims of domestic violence are not being disciplined, they are being treated brutally with no concern for their life, body, or mental health. Their choices did not cause the abuse. A defiant child earns the discipline he receives. 

• shiningstar said on Apr 04, 2007....

  If what Jehovah did to the Hebrew people is your idea of "discipline" I repeat what I just said about the "Stockholm Syndrome"  perhaps you might consider reading up on what it means.  Abuse kills many people who in the name of "god"  or goodness "discipline"  their children. The only difference in your abused women statement is that Jehovah did abuse equally.  Women make choice sbased on the beliefs that each has been raised in.  The Christian teaching that women must obey,  must stay with a man,  keep the home together,  suffer and sacrafice for all has created the woman who stays and refuses to leave her abusor.--May I suggest that you read the OT cover to cover and just pretend that you are one of these "children"  who you think are just being disciplined.The most intense,  brutal programming that ever took place happened to these people in the wilderness and it is deeply embedded in the consciousness of all people even today.  You cannot heal what is not even acknowledged. (Dr. Phil)

• boyzmom said on Apr 04, 2007....

  It is really too bad that the Bible could be interpretted that way. When I read it, I try to remember that there was suffering happening for everyone, not just followers of God. I also think about the fact that the culture, laws of the land, were manmade laws, not God's law. We were not being asked to submit to abuse but to submit to the laws to prevent the abuse. The people in those days had a very different culture and were not well educated, but they were warned that their choices had consequences and if they chose God's way rather than Man's way, they would be blessed.

  Yes, some would suffer in the name of God but surely more suffered in the name of Man. God created man and woman to be companions, the male dominance and female submissive idea came later, it became the culture. That culture still exists today and seems barbaric to me because I wasn't raised that way. I try to remember that we are looking at what happened then with values we have now and we don't think the punishment fits the crime but it all boils down to the fact that some people chose not to follow the laws, whether they were man-made laws or God's law, with a warning as to what would happen as a result and did it anyhow.

  You are right about not being able to heal what is not acknowledged, but don't tell someone they need healing when they don't think they do. For 4 weeks I was told that I was a victim of domestic violence. There was some mental abuse but apparently not enough to make me submit to it, and for that reason I still don't believe I was a victim, not like the people that had it worse off than me. I don't know what those people are thinking so I don't know if they were victims of abuse or if they are just people trying to survive and not be the one who has got it worse than another. 

• shiningstar said on Apr 05, 2007....

  So we live in a western world in a different culture and time and what has changed??? Nothing. Peoples minds are still mostly closed to new understanding and they still create and recreate the same old problems.  No one can live undere the laws of jehovah.  Jehovah broke them as all people still do.  They are not natural laws that are based on the principals of life that llow the flow of life to sustain all.  Look at the prison system here in the "Christian " world.  Three times that of any other country.  The Christians are having jails built so they won't be housed with the "criminals".  Sincere people try to follow these three laws and fail because they do not allow the ISNESS of all life to just be as it IS.  Jesus gave one law.  Love ye one another.  That law works.  Abuse in the name of love does not work.

• boyzmom said on Apr 05, 2007....

  My Dad called it brainwashing. The US army uses brainwashing or bully tactics because there is no time for doubt or squabbling in times of war. These people were in times of war and were being rescued from the real dangers in the world. When the world is at peace, then love could truly prevail, but when there are still people forbidden to read the Bible or talk of God and those people may have too many doubts for God to rescue them, then another approach other than just loving them may have to be considered.

  I've never thought about the fact that Jehovah may have broke his own laws. Maybe that is the reason that Jesus discarded the laws so easily, if they don't apply to every situation then they are pretty useless. I think it is like when I am at a new job and most things are written down how to do them, exceptions to the rules, but once in a while they say use your best judgement and that is a scary thought. If I mess up, what would the consequences be, would I loose money for the company, be reprimanded or would I loose my job. I think I can trust Jehovah's best judgement, he does things for the right reasons and in the end most of those people were stronger as a result and prevailed. 

• shiningstar said on Apr 05, 2007....

  Fromwhat you have just said I assume that you have been taught that Jehovah is god and the creator of all life.  If this is correct then I must ask you to comptemplate if you had that title,  that power,  that all knowingness would you treat your creations the way Jehovah did?  Would you treat your family that way??Do not ,as parents , we want children to learn for themselves and be competent enough to go out and take care of their own selves??If one has a set of rules they must live by how do they learn anything for themselves???Jesus broke the law because he lived under natural universal law(which works for the best good of all)  instead of Jehovah law which does not allow for self expression which is natural for all.

• silverwhisper said on Apr 06, 2007....

  you make the mistake of assuming that god's ways are our ways.
  
  ed

• boyzmom said on Apr 06, 2007....

  Rules serve different purposes. They may keep children safe, make life easier because we learn from someone else's mistakes, they teach respect, or they are there just for the sake of being there. Some rules don't keep people from learning the hard way and others do. I don't see a problem with this system as long as there is a way to discard rules that are no longer helpful. People have a problem with making this decision to discard outdated rules, not Jehovah.

• shiningstar said on Apr 08, 2007....

  SW I do not assume that God's ways are our ways. If we take a piece of clay and we makes horses,  men and cabbages out of it is it still not clay regardless of the shapes that it takes????  The parable of the Mustard Seed is meant to show the Divine Intelligence that is in all life even the lowly mustard seed as tiny as it is. If there was no place that Divine Intelligence lives then there would be a place where God is not.

• boyzmom said on Apr 22, 2007....

  God is everywhere but what we choose to do is based on our experiences and our little sphere of information and not the complete knowledge of the past, present and future that God has. We wouldn't know what freedom is if we didn't see slavery in the past. We wouldn't know what abuse is, if there wasn't respect in the world today.

• shiningstar said on May 12, 2007....

  So does one have to murder to understand murder?? If God is Omni-Present then knowledge of past,  present and future is everywhere.  The purpose of Karma is to let us see what we perhaps need to change in our beliefs,  actions,  reactions and attitudes and create a better way of doing and being than what we did in the past. Someone who "pushes our buttons"  is a reminder to us of the Soul's longing for us to uplift ourselves into a greater understanding of both our power and who we are.  As Jesus said "ye are gods".  That's enough for me to know that I am what he claimed me to be not what someones religious god has taught.  Jehovah and Jesus are not one and the same.

• boyzmom said on May 12, 2007....

  No, someone has to live to understand that murder takes that away. The world is full of opposites, that is what we have to understand. Karma doesn't just happen, the Lord intervenes, it is not a phenomena that occurs naturally. Do you mean you don't believe in the trinity?

• shiningstar said on May 27, 2007....

  What is Karma except the past being replayed??Why is it replayed?Because we keep repeating the same things over and over again refusing to grow out of the ignorance that we have lived in for so long.  Karma helps us recreate those life experiences so we get another chance to change our actions and reactions into greater understandings of who and what we are.  We are all gods. There was nothing else to make anything out of except God and everything is part and parcel of that Divine Intelligence that is alive and well in all of it's creations because it is all of it's creations.

• shiningstar said on Jun 03, 2007....

  Jesus was not rejected by the Jews because he was like them.  If he had believed what they believed he woould not have been murdered for his beliefs. They knew he was not like them and did not believe as they  believed. He taught out in the open by the sea or on the mountain.  He did not create a church and teach people to worship him as Jehovah did.  He was the opposite of Jehovah and that was what they could not understand.  He had the power but he did not use it the same way that Jehovah used his.  He refused to judge,  condemn or war and that set him apart from Jehovah.  That is why they accused him of being a devil or an evil spirit. Any one whose says that they love you and then threaten to kill you if you don't love them back is not like Jesus.

• boyzmom said on Jun 04, 2007....

  Jesus did teach in synagogues also, he belonged there in his father's house. There were enough people who could see that the world was becoming corrupt from the government to the churches that Jesus had followers, that is why God sent him. To change the corrupt people, not kill them. God is the judge and jury, he gets that right by being God, and Jesus just showed people that we are not worthy to judge or throw stones because we are not without sin. God's tactics to keep the world from all the sin and corruption did not work, so Jesus changed that a little by making people accountable to each other, he uses the peer pressure approach rather than the approach of total control. Jesus is God and always will be the equivalent of God.
   
  Jesus was capable of escaping from the cross but chose to die to save us, God didn't condemn him, people did. People condemn people and in early times God felt the need to condemn but in the modern world God could not do that because he gave us freedom to choose and decided that we would use that freedom whether he was here telling us what to do or not and took a hands-off approach for a while. It doesn't change the fact that he will judge us and he will decide if we belong in his home or not in the end.

• lfbno7 said on Jun 09, 2007....

  The main difference between Jesus and Jehovah is that Jesus really lived, and Jehovah is a fictional character like Zeus and Sauron (Lord of the Rings).

• shiningstar said on Jun 15, 2007....

  Are you positive about that my friend?. For me,  I know that both of them live today. The promise of Jehovah to come back for his  "great and terrible day of the Lord(himself)"  was set onto prophency. He did not leave because he wanted to leave.  He was forced to leave by our unseen brothers and sisters who love us greatly. But if we continue to choose to live his ways we will draw him back to fulfill the prophency because that is like magnatizing like.

• shiningstar said on Sep 03, 2007....

  Jesus was always in his Father's house for the world is his /her house.  Lucky for Jesus it is that way for he was forcibly taken from the house of Jehovah and the people(those in the synagogue of Jehovah) took him out and tried to throw him off of a cliff because he was not speaking the same old Jehovah reteric.  He died for no one.  He died to show an ignorant people that life goes on and one which was against the teachings of Jehovah.Jesus was murdered for the religious sin of blasphemy which means speaking against jehovah not for him.

• shiningstar said on Oct 16, 2007....

  In what I have learned Jehovah is not fictional Ifbro7.  He took over the planet and injected his truth on the people.  Because of the pain and suffering that the people went through his teachings  are impressed into the physic of the planet. He wants to come back as he was put off the planet but he will return one day..  Ramtha verifies this in his teachings many times as do other teachers. In fear the people lived under him and it is that same fear that keeps them teaching the people about Jehovah and keeping it all alive.Peace

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