• pascodelta said on Mar 28, 2007....

  Black american works for me.  I think the 'african american' bit came from genuine efforts to recognise the source of the black americans...but I agree...they don't call Jamaicans 'African Jamaicans'...I'm educated but I don't fancy 'Negroid' - Nubian is pretty cool though.  Any advances on Nubian?

• Dunedin said on Mar 28, 2007....

  I like the sound of Nubian. It refers to a region of Egypt, doesn't it? Calling all black people Nubian would be like calling all white people French. But I do like the sound of it. 

• pascodelta said on Mar 28, 2007....

  lol..:D yeah, Egypt and Sudan... Well, 'calling all white people french'...is not far from what we do with black people...if you look at Europe, we can all see the differences between spain, France etc...but we expect black people to be the same...an african is an african, whereas, of course, the reality is completely different. My family hail from Nigeria, but, wow, we are Uhrobo and speak a different lanuage and have different demeanours to the Yoruba, Hausa, Ibo and it goes on - and that's just Nigeria! ...

• CamDaMan20 said on Mar 28, 2007....

  How about those in America.....American.

• Dunedin said on Mar 28, 2007....

  @pascodelta: The white rubric subsumes French, Spanish, German, etc. much as the black rubric includes Nigerian, Zambian, etc. So I don't think it's correct to say "'calling all white people french'...is not far from what we do with black people."

• GrapeKoolaid said on Mar 28, 2007....

  I'm with CamDaMan on this one.  Prefixes like "African-", and "Asian-" in front of the word "American" separate us, divide us and categorize us.  When we're divided, we're ripe to be conquered.  It is in the best interests of the power that be to keep us that way. 

• Holly-Go-Lightly said on Mar 28, 2007....

  I personally, would hesitate to "invent" a name for a group of people I am not culturally or historically a part of.  It's so hard today, people are stumbling all over themselves trying to being politically correct.  Let's take a look at how the names have changed over the years.
   
  1. N   (don't say it, never will)
  2. Coloreds/ Colored people
  3.Blacks
  4.African-American
  5. People of Color
   
  now, how far can we say we have come in evolving from colored people to "people of color"???  I understand that colored people became known as a racist term-but what about people of color-that could mean any group of people, so not really an identifying term.
   
  I have dated several black men, and all of them, born in the same generation, raised in different parts of the country, with all different backgrounds as far as growing up, and ALL of them preferred to be called Black. Black men. Now that sounds fine to me, however I am not a Black man or a Black woman, this is where the disagreement begins, because I think it's really become a personal issue as to what one black person considers an insult and what another does not.
   
  Also, I agree that the prefixes to American seem to separate people, however, this is the great melting pot, and for the most part anyone who has immigrated to the United States is still proud of their heritage, and still want to honor it in name. I know a few families in Chinatown, San Francisco. These ladies have been here for years, but they would never say Asian-American,no,no. " I Chinee" I have heard old Mrs. Lee say many times. America is where she lives, but as a person, she is Chinese.  Her granddaughter, born and raised in San Francisco has a more hip attitude, she concedes that Asian-American isn't a negative term. I think it's important to acknowledge a person's heritage rather than all of us blending into a single blob of tasteless dough. Heritage is the spice of life.
   

• GrapeKoolaid said on Mar 28, 2007....

  There's no doubt that the melting pot is one of many things that give this country great strength.  It's one thing to learn by them and celebrate them, and it's something else to separate and discriminate by them.  Unfortunately, in many instances, ethnocentricism and xenophobia go hand in hand.  It's a trickey issue. 

• pascodelta said on Mar 28, 2007....

  @mohammed...my point was that Africa is a continent, not a country...yet all the time I hear African this, african that (including African American)...yet Nigerians are different from Togans, are different to Namibians - very much so, yet we refer to them as 'Africans' as a collective. By African Continental standards, Poland is on the door step of Portugal, but the two could never be confused.
   

• Dunedin said on Mar 28, 2007....

  @CamDaMan, @GrapeKoolaid: Americans are Americans, but communication requires further distinctions. Until Sony sells telepathy technology, words are the best thing we've got. Clear differences exist between races and cultures. It's natural to acknowledge differences and for that acknowledgement to be reflected in language. For most people there's no such thing as colorblind and never will be, so the best thing we can do is recognize our differences but not unfairly discriminate because of them.
  
  @Holly: Thanks for sharing. Asian American, also a clumsy mouthful. My argument is that current PC appellations are awkward. I like Mong.
  
  
  
  Allow me to make a distinction. Because African American and Asian American  are the most vanilla categorizations of blacks and Chinese, they are probably the most germane for politics. But in conversation, even in a conversational newpaper article, the PC words sound so artificial. They make you and me sound like politicians. 
  
  
  

• pascodelta said on Mar 28, 2007....

  I don't think having these prefixes in front are necessarily divicive, although, they can easily be manipulated by those that wish to...I love diversity, language culture and I agree with Holly - who wants 'a single blob of tasteless dough'..
   
  I prefer to be called black, however, I travelled through Cameroon and Nigeria a few years ago, and cos of my mix, many people mistake me for a darkish moroccan, Libyan etc..but people were calling me 'Oyebo'...I asked my dad what that was all about and he said it means 'White man'...straight up...I found that hilarious, that in Europe and America, I'm black but in Africa, I'm 'Oyebo' - white man...
   
  so this world is all about perception.  It's only a tricky issue cos some people can be so anal about it...I'm comfortable in my skin, so call me what you like...
   
   

• mom said on Mar 28, 2007....

  I absolutely hate this. Constantly having to change a definition.  I will always call them Black.  I have a hard enough time trying to remember my name let alone what I am supposed to refer to people as.  Unless they race really changes don't expect me to keep switching gears, it is rediculous.

• Dunedin said on Mar 28, 2007....

  @mom: I hate it, too. I would like to forever say black. I'm willing to trade it in, but not for a clumsy word.
  
  I have one grandma who says colored and another who says negro. When they were young, these were the correct words. Now some people think black is inappropriate. 

• beyondtheveil said on Mar 28, 2007....

  I'd be most happy if everyone would just pick a name and stay with it.

• uniquely-ironic said on Mar 28, 2007....

  I guess I'm questioning why it's oh so important to pick the right term.  I live in a culturally diverse area with whites, mexican, asian and many other cultures.  Many people are more than one race to further confuse the issue.  My own children can legally claim latin heritage (1/4 puerto rican) but do not have dark hair, brown eyes or even moderately dark skin.
   
  I find that if you must pick a label for people you can usually simply ask what they prefer to be called.  For people I am close to I will joke with them and call them mocha momma, kung fu brother or other funny but not offensive names.  I think the sincere respect they receive from me more than outweighs any politically incorrect stumblings I may make from time to time.

• echoes said on Mar 28, 2007....

  African American, Irish American, Italian American, personally I think that "anything" American is ridiculous, if you are born in America you are American, just as if you are born in England you are English, born in France you are French, born in Italy you are Italian, yes you might be of African, Irish, Portuguese, Spanish descent but so what. We are all people, all humans, all have the same blood flowing through us, when we donate blood is it matched on skin tones - no, you are not segregated by color or on where your family came from. We need to be working together, not separating ourselves into little, ok large, groups, yes be proud of where you came from, where you history is, but move on.. do we have White American music awards, its just another version separatism, we've just about gotten over the man v women one, well at least in most parts of the world. The day we accept each other for who we are and not what we are, the better a world this will be. Why do we hate someone for believing in something different.... ok, time to get off my soap box, I could go on about this for hours....

• mom said on Mar 28, 2007....

  Mohamed- when I was growing up we also used the terms "colored or negro", I always like the term "Colored" as it had a softer sound than "Black"  I wish people did not get hung up on titles.  By doing so, it seems that we create more hate and discontent.  I never cared if people, called me white, cracker etc.  So it is hard for me to undestand the ruckus.

• CamDaMan20 said on Mar 28, 2007....

  Mom...the only one's being piss-willys are the colored...um...negro....um....blacks....um.....
  
  I just wish the blacks would stop cryin for cryin out loud....its like a whining spoiled child repeatedly moaning..."it ain't fair....it ain't fair...it ain't fair....
  
  Im so damned tired of listening to the blacks cry I am going deaf to their complains...ya know...."a black out"...
  
  stop the fucking cryin and get on with life.
  

• TinSoldier said on Mar 28, 2007....

  Mohamed, this is why I subscribed to you. You have a way of cutting to the quick, in my opinion, and discussing the issues at hand.
  
  I'm a cauc, by the way, which I would have a problem saying in polite company. But it certainly made me laugh out loud.
  
  I grew up with the term "black" and occasionally the "n" word which has become far worse word in the English language than the "f" word could ever dream to become.
  
  Personally, I use the terms "African American" or "black" or "person of color" (which includes more than just persons of African descent) as context dictates. After a time, some words' meanings intensify and others dilute. So in my mind African American just becomes a synonym for black or any other non-derogatory name.
  
  We as humans like to label things. As much as I would like to live in a color-blind society, skin color is an obviously defining and descriptive feature of how a person looks. And we specify black or hispanic or latino or any other darker-skinned people because whites are the most homogeneous majority.
  
  As long as the terms "black" or "African American" are not offensive to the people being referred to, then I will continue to use them. While I don't want to be referred to as a "cauc", "Caucasian" or "European American" or "white" don't bother me either.
  

• D6fer said on Mar 28, 2007....

  I think the only time that any name other than american should be used is when a description of a specific person is needed....like when the police are looking for a suspect....then its fine, white male...black female...etc

• Dunedin said on Mar 29, 2007....

  @CamDaMan: "the only one's being piss-willys ..."
  As far as I know you are correct. I can think of no other group that has made such a fuss over the issue. If I'm wrong, someone please tell me.
  
  @uniquely: Why it's so important to pick the right term: See CamDaMan's comment.
  
  @beyondtheveil: see above
  
  @pascodelta: I'm deleting your rambly personal attack on CamDaMan, though I admit his comment lacks control and is liable to provoke an emotional response. Also, I'm moving your African history comments and my replies to a different thread.
  
  @TinSoldier: Thanks G. 

• AlisonMarie19 said on Mar 29, 2007....

  I'm Dutch American. Wait... wait...... bullshit radar kicking in.....
   
  I'm an American. More than that, I am white. My question? Why is "black" offensive and "white" is not? Am I a person of no color? (as opposed to "a person of color".) I think it's boring that white people are all lumped together. If I want to be a Dutch-American, why can't I be? Just cause my parents, and my parents' parents were born here doesn't mean I can't be Dutch-American <tongue-in-cheek> I understand that my ancestors came here of their own free will. How long will the future pay for the mistakes of the past?!
   
  I have found that the people who are the most racist are some people of African descent. Some of these people are the most racist people that I have ever seen and heard! If anyone perpetuates prejudice and hatred, it's the people who cannot seem to get past their <ahem> past. And it isn't THEIR direct past!! It's 5-10 generations ago! I agree with Cam. Us white folks have apologized up, down and sideways, and I am NOT going to apologize for what English settlers did to these peoples' ancestors. There wasn't any slavery in my family at all, and I won't apologize because I'm white.
   
  And furthermore. I speak American English. What the hell is ebonics?? It's improper English if you ask me. Interesting though... "Ebon" a prefix, meaning black (gasp).
   
  I don't agree with Mongs though... too easily confused with Hmong. And if you ever call a Chinese person "Hmong", you will get corrected with great haste.
   
                                              ^-^ ali m.

• mom said on Mar 29, 2007....

  I would like to add my 2 cents in here about ebonics.   When I heard they were teaching this at a college, I was appauled.  I think that the black community should be pissed off too.  It looks as if they are saying that blacks are too ignorant to prounounce the english language so why try.  I think it is a real insult to anyone.  I don't want to offend anyone but that is what I thought about that. To me that is like setting back the black american 100 years or more.

• D6fer said on Mar 30, 2007....

  you are so right mom!

• mom said on Mar 30, 2007....

  Thanks D6 *mom takes a bow*  ya know sometimes if I eat my wheaties I can give off the impression that I have something intelligent to say, I like that.

• doyoulikeme said on Mar 31, 2007....

  AA Is a term that is used to describe African Diaspora that cam over on slave ships to the New World. Typically it is used to describe blacks in the US. Where the term gets into trouble? It’s used to describe every Black person, which it shouldn't. Just saying your Black is enough for me.
  Everyone has there prejudices including me. What is going on is not that Africans were sold in the New World as slaves but a system of White supremacy was set up in which Blacks and many others were treated as second class citizens. Many other non Black people came to this country and benefited, without even being a slave owner and simply because they were white.
  Would you tell a Jewish or Armenian person to forget the Holocaust. I guess recent history counts more. Never forget or history will repeat itself. Just like now in certain parts of the world where slavery still exists.
  Facts about Black English (Ebonics) that you may have not know. It’s a dialect that is spoken by many Black People. These speech patterns vary regionally Black English is a result of a native speech styles and what every language they encountered when they reached the New World. Many of it stems from vocal pronunciation of words left over from speech patterns in Africa. I'll give you an example. Have you ever listened to Black women speak and she says, "Girl". You hear they way it’s pronounced, the inflection of that word and other words, that's Ebonics. An even better example is some of the Patois and Creoles spoken by Diaspora in some parts of the US, the Caribbean, and in South America.
  Being a teacher I think it is a good idea that this is mentioned in school. As a College student, we talked about it in some classes. We dealt with the misconceptions of it and how to prepare students for the World. We let them know its okay to use it. In professional places it is not to be used. Many people and educators now have a better understanding of what Black English is. Many write is off as a lack of education which it isn’t, it’s a dialect. Personally, I use Black English when I’m at home and with close friends. In the work place I try to speak proper English.

• Dunedin said on Apr 16, 2007....

  doyoulikeme:
  
  Thanks for stopping by my blog, but I take issue with some of your comment.
  
  Would you tell a Jewish or Armenian person to forget the Holocaust. I guess recent history counts more. Never forget or history will repeat itself. Just like now in certain parts of the world where slavery still exists.
  
  That's irrelevant. It has nothing to do with African American and implying otherwise is misleading and ignorant. 
  
  
  Ebonics is a dialect, and so is white Southern English. Both are associated with  lack of education, as they rightly should be. Not all people who use these dialects are uneducated, but many are, and that will be the lasting perception. The difference is that white Southern English is not taught in schools nor do apologists try to clarify so-called misconceptions of it. It's a dialect used by hicks, mostly uneducated, and they accept their provincialness and even embrace it.
  
  
  
  
  
  

• cotteralladams2 said on Apr 18, 2007....

  I had an African friend/boyfriend who referred to Black Americans as American because he could not see their connection to Africa.  He figured they were Americanized and didn't relate to them.  He came from Zambia and had been born and raised there.  So maybe there is really a difference if Africans do not understand it.  Also, it has been said that they are a continent of tribes and not of nations, since most of the African 'countries' have border designations reflecting colonial era territorial claims.  So they do not always feel a kinship with each other, let alone a sense of patriotism to their 'country of citizenship'.

• cotteralladams2 said on Apr 18, 2007....

  On slavery:  there has some argument about whether or not slavery occurred in Canada but noone can even figure which Black Canadians were the descendants of slaves, which came up from the U.S. during the civil war and who immigrated here.  It can be established that Jamaican and other Caribbean and African immigrants are not included in this group, for obvious reasons.  Since it was created by American, British and African policies, I fail to see any basis for any financial compensation or legal justice.

  Now an issue like the illegal internship of Japanese-Canadians and the head tax against Chinese is different.  Why?  It happened on our soil; it has been legally determined to be true; we can determine who the remaining victims are and their descendants; an amount of compensation has been established; there is a good political argument because it is fairly recent in history, unlike slavery five hundred years or more ago; it came out of domestic policy; it is a form of discrimination and there was also a ban on immigration from China as well as a lot of legal and political restrictions on their activity, suggesting historically-based discrimination on the basis of ancestry.

  On slavery, how can anyone determine who was related to who if many Black Americans do not know their own origins and ancestors.  Many are of mixed ancestry with Native, Caucasian, Hispanic and Asian blood-over eighty percent in fact.  They are not a specific immigrant or racial category.  It was determined by outside forces in a time of war and settlement and no firm established American country existed, and the legal status of slaves was always a grey area. 

• LMari said on Apr 18, 2007....

  they are born in america, but they are referred to as african americans. i was born in south africa, but im not allowed to be called an african becos im not black. i think we southafricans are the wierdest bunch created. bcos im white - im not referred to as an african. if im not an african, then what the hell am i? im not afrikaans (the ppl that stem from the apartheid era) - i have generation apon generation that have lived here in south africa, but i cant claim to be african otherwise its taken offense by black africans. so the question still lies 'who the fuck am i then???' another strange thing about south africa is that its not black and white. its black, coloured and white. the coloureds have an accent and an entire culture of their own. they are the lighter shades of black. blacks are those that are 100% black and speak xhosa or zulu. whites are the afrikaaners and then theres my kind (still cant find a name for me). then theres the muslims with their entirely different culture, which are mostly referred to as coloureds. its very unique and at the end of the day you just gotta laugh at how the world came about and who names who what and who gets insulted by being called what. politics. thats all it comes down to. i wish there was no such thing as politics

• Dunedin said on Apr 18, 2007....

  @adams: Thanks.
  
  @LMari: Coloured refers to mixed breeds, doesn't it? And what do you call Indians?
  
  I have heard Afrikaaners refer to themselves as such. Do you speak Afrikaans?
  
  I think the most common term for a white South African is South African, while the term African refers to blacks.
  
  xhosa or zulu
  Shona is not a major language in S.Africa?
  

• cotteralladams2 said on Apr 19, 2007....

  I believe that the support for majority rule ending apartheid and the lack of democracy and the end of homelands proves that Black South Africans consider themselves to be South Africans. Not everyone plays the race card all the time and these people suffered through real oppression. South Africa is a unique, multicultural society with a lot of advancements and modernity, in contrast to many other African countries. Two of their biggest problems are HIV and poverty, and those issues affect Black South Africans more than any other. It is possible to balance national identity with multiculturalism and minority rights, in their case, the rights of the majority. I really think native Africans are the real Africans, after all, they were born there and live there. How more real do you get than that?

   

  It was like Yasser Arafat calling himself Palestinian when he was born in Egypt and educated in Kuwait. He hardly spent time in Palestine as a child and discovered his 'Palestinian roots' in his late twenties. This guy led the P.L.O. Surely Palestinians could have found a better leader than that. At least, Mahmoud Abbas was born and raised in the Palestinian territories.

• LMari said on Apr 19, 2007....

  MOHAMED.W, coloured does refer to mixed breeds, they speak a slang afrikaans (no xhosa or zulu) and have an entirely different culture and accent.  i have no afrikaans in my family and i dont speak afrikaans that well - im english speaking and have a south african accent (not sure where that accent derived from iether, very confusing).

  ive never heard of 'shona' in south africa, just zulu, xhosa, sutu afrikaans and english. our afrikaaners are like deep south americans, our coloureds are like the american blacks .

   

  COTTERALLADAMS2, I was born in South Africa, as well as generations apon generations of my family. i feel like i have a right to be called south african. im not european just bcos im white. i live and breath africa everyday - who am i then if im not south african? and i will be blunt - black ppl do have more of the upper hand now that apartheid is over - its almost like a reverse apartheid now. 'their turn' (it shouldnt be no ones turn, it should be everyones turn, especially seeing as our generation never lived apartheid) they have more claim to the land bcos they are black.

   would that seem fair in england? should only white europeans get more rights and claim to the land bcos they are white? it contridicts itself.

  the coloureds went through the same apartheid oppression and they same terrible period- but do they get special treatement like the black south africans?NO. the most likely person to get a job in south africa is a black female. (not coloured). whether or not they are fit for the job. the BEE laws here are so bad that when i went to college i had teachers that couldnt even spell properly, never mind pronounciation. the people that are sitting in parliament - in power at this moment, are all there on an honoury basis. 80% of them havent even graduated from highschool. now you tell me if thats fair.

   every year millions apon millions of rands are go un-accounted for. corruption, conspiracy - rape trials. tax avations. thats what our government is getting up to. and getting away with. apartheid was ridiculous and went agianst human rights. theres no question about that what so ever. our country is better now, but the question is for who?

• doyoulikeme said on Apr 20, 2007....

  Mohamed my slavery comments were meant t ot to you but to some wh brougth it up. As for the Black English comment I'm not an apologist just saying that many fail to understand the roots of it.
  

  "it's a dialect used by hicks, mostly uneducated, and they accept their provincialness and even embrace it." I think that's an unfair comment. My Father always told me just because you aren't book smart doesn't mean you aren't smart.

• Dunedin said on Apr 20, 2007....

  Ok, thanks for clarifying. I'm glad you're not an apologist.
  
  
  just because you aren't book smart doesn't mean you aren't smart.
  Provincial doesn't mean unintelligent. It means narrow-minded and coarse.
  
  

• galx said on Apr 23, 2007....

  the word black is a color not a race of people

  The word African-American implies that there should be other types of Americans in which there are, as much I don't like that either that appears to appeal to the massess. I've even heard some just drop the American and deal with the African and the rationale is that they are Africans living in America. That is our heritage and culuter whether one has been there or not. You can't deny it and why would you want to because of the stereotypes that they show on the Discovery channel?

  So I guess my answer is NO I don't approve fo the term.

• anonymous said on Apr 24, 2007....

  read

• southerngirl said on May 04, 2007....

  You can call me what you want as long as I receive the equal amount of services for which I apply and qualify for as long as I am not discrimated aganist and the term are use in a nothreading way as to provote me into violence. 

• JohnyBottom said on Sep 29, 2007....

  I say black. African American is retarded. I do not go around calling myself a "German, French, Russian, Irish, Italian American".
   
  The problem is people want special labels to feel good about themselves.
   
  I am not truly 'white', if I was the color white I would look like a ghost or an albino. Black people are not truly 'black'. I have seen some real dark brothers, but most people who would be 'Black' are really brown.
   
  You know what? Who fucking cares in the long run????

• Proud2BMe!! said on Sep 30, 2007....

  I kind of agree with what your saying except for the small fact of the matter is because your not "Black" you really don't have a say in it AT ALL. You don't know what it feels like to be called such degrading things that we have been called. So when we get something that's not degrading we would like to run with it. You said call people of African descent "Black." Call people of Caucasian descent "White." And call people of Asian descent "Yellow." Well if you want to get technical I'm not black I'm brown. So you're trying to make it sound like you want us to all be called something of the same nature to make us all the same, just a color. I think ethnicity dosen't matter at all. We shouldn't be called black, white, or yellow. How about just the name that's on the birth certificate. What happened to that thought? All of this commotion about the term African American, how about we just get rid of the ethnicity all together. It dosen't do anything but cause problems. The little sections on forms, applications and things of that sort. So you took the time to write about "Do you approve of the term African American?" when if you really cared that much you would have taken that time to write a blog asking "Do you think ethnicity matters?"  

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