botoni's tags:

The page you were looking for no longer exists

Mobil brought up a question in another thread about Hutterites.  The existence of Hutterites in Montana and Alberta is another of the things we share as neighbors.  Many, likely most, SC readers wont have an idea who or what is a Hutterite.  I ll give a little bit of description first just as an introduction.
 
Hutterites, Amish and Mennonites all trace their history to the Anabatists going back as far as 1600 AD.  Briefly, the Hutterites were first in Moravia (now Czek Republic) in the 17th century they relocated to the Ukraine because of persecution.  In the 1870s they came to the United States and Canada.  Most settling in the Dakotas and Montana on the American side.  In Canada they settled in Manitoba and Alberta.  The Amish came to North America from Switzerland.  John Penn invited them to settle in Pennsyvania but they also came to Ohio and Indiana as well as Ontario in Canada.  Mennonites came from Russia in the 1860s and are now present in most states and provinces throughout Canada and the USA.
 
Although these groups can each trace their history to the Anabaptist movement they have evolved in different directions.  The one thing they hold most in common is that they are all pacifists.  That is to say they do not participate in armed conflict.  There is a common thread of communiality in the three groups.  Hutterites live exclusively in colonies that are quite insular from the outside world.  Amish will own their own property but have a very strong committment to assisting each other.  As an example when a new barn is needed on a privately owned farm the Amish will gather together with enough manpower to erect it entirely in one day.  The Amish have a belief that owning modern technology is unnecessary.  Consequently they will live without motorized vehicle, electicity, phones, television and the like.  They allow the use of these technologies but not possession of them.  (An Amish person would use your or my cellphone but would not own one.)  The Mennonites have been less separated from general society.  They have tended to live in close proximity to each other and do generously share labor and work loads with one another. 
 
Hutterites and Amish are easily recognized because of their clothing.  At one time the women of the colony made all the apparel for the entire colony.  The women wear ankle length simple skirts of dark colors (usually with a minimal pattern such as small polka dots), their tops are similiar to a waist length jacket usually black.  They wear their hair centered parted and braided with a rectangular polka dot scarf.  The men wear black pants and simple jackets over a plaid shirt.  The mens clothing is usually factory produced now but still adheres to the black with plaid workshirts.  At one time even the mens hats were handmade.  They were very similiar in appearance to the kepi worn by the French Armed Services.  The children dress exactly like the adults.  Amish clothing similarly has not changed in fashion from the 1800s.  It is also limited to prdominantly black.
 
Some Mennonites still dress in simple style with very conservative choices of materials.  Most noticable would be a head covering that is made of starched netting for the women.  (I always thought they look like mesh strainers.)  Most Mennonites today are not recognizeable by their clothing.  They usually dress very much like the rest of society.  Perhaps with less emphasis on designer clothing and labels.
 
Hutterites, because of their choice to live in colonies, create a situation that is viewed as uncomfortable.  They live very self sufficiently in an agricultural setting.  The produce their own food and do all their own preservation.  A typical colony will have anywhere from 60 to 150 inhabitants.  When the population of a colony reaches that 150 mark it divides and a new colony is built.  This is one of the areas that causes concern.  When they build a new colony they will purchase several small family farms.  The people who lived originally on those farms would be a part of the community.  They would buy goods locally, belong to local recreational groups, participate in community activities.  Their children would attend regular schools as well.  When a colony is built all of those activities end.  Hutterite children are educated in schools on the colony up to grade nine.  (I m not sure if that is the same in the USA).  The colony does not do commerce locally.  What goods are required are purchased either wholesale or directly from the manufacturer.  These practices devaste the local communities and are one of the reasons (although not the sole reason) that little hamlets and villages like Flake are dying.
 
The communal life style of Hutterites creates another situation.  No one living on a colony has an individual income.  In other words no one is paid.  A colony resident has all basic needs met.  Clothing, food and shelter are all provided.  In Canada this means that no resident of a Hutterite colony pays income tax.  I believe the colony still pays corporate taxes.  The taxation issue again is a concern to taxpayers.  The regular taxpayer carries a greater load of the taxation base because of the non-contiribution of colony members.
 
Amish and Mennonite do not live in colonies per se therefore they pay taxes on their incomes just like everyone else.
 
This is turning into a rather long post.  I ll stop here.  If anyone is interested I can add much more information in another post.  Maybe a verbal tour of a colony would be interesting to some.  Let me know.
 
 
 


del.icio.us Digg reddit StumbleUpon

Comments

  • secretlife said on Mar 18, 2007....
    I live in NJ....and we've made several trips to Lancaster County PA (only a few hours by car) which is home to the Amish (2nd largest community in US)....
     
    It's odd in this day and age to see men and women dressed all in black and riding in horse drawn carriages.  It seems like something out of a movie...and when i think of it, i cannot imagine what keeps their children from running away from the whole life....but they do not seem to be running away, and in fact their numbers increase....
     
    This is the first i've read of this other group....Hutterites. 
     
    It's kind of sad that when a certain group moves in, a community cannot survive them.  it must make for hate of this people by others...
     
    interesting post botoni. i'd love a tour of a colony.
     
    hmmmm i'm remembering i bought a shoe-fly-pie last year from the sunday market stand.  the amish don't seem afraid to take advantage of the tourists in lancaster.  i believe i paid $10 for that pie.....
  • polarheart said on Mar 18, 2007....
    Botoni, just placing my bookmark here!
  • botoni said on Mar 18, 2007....
    Secret.......shoefly pie!  an Amish specialty.  Maybe I ll blog away about the Hutterite/Amish/Mennonite foods.......generally very delicious.  You re right about the price of a pie but then maybe its a bit of pricing with the philosophy 'what the market will bear'. 
  • mobil said on Mar 18, 2007....
    Great description botoni, some of the colonies differ here, but I believe most
    kids receive their entire education on the colony here.
     
    I used to do tire work when I first came here and would go to the colonies to
    fix tractor tires. The men have a different life style, more freedom. They
    don't often get some of the things we have in town. Like tobacco, or beer
    whiskey, things like that. They do make their own wine, like rhubarb wine.
     
    Anyway, I learned to take these trade goods with me when going to a
    colony. For carton of cigarettes you could come away with all sorts of
    farm produce, home made breads, homemade wine, even meat cut and
    wrapped.
     
    The men it seems wear no facial hair before being married, then they can
    grow a beard or mustache. They are known for stealing here too, coming
    into town and shoplifting.
     
    If you were on the colony during meal time, I was always invited to eat with
    them. What kitchens they had and the smells were to die for. There were
    certain days of the week when the women baked or cooked different things.
     
    The men had different jobs, an older man might be the hog boss, another
    the machinery boss and on and on like that. They were always friendly to
    me and outgoing. They enjoyed teasing and being teased back.
     
    Another thing that was always rumored. That the colony needed new blood.
    That once in awhile they wanted to get other men to mate with their women.
    I don't think there is any truth to that, but the rumor persists.
     
    I have noticed very thick glasses on some of the children and it seems
    everyone wears glasses. Most colonies are self sufficient even to having
    their own shoe maker. One made me a pair of shoes one time for a bottle
    of whisky....haha......I will think of more as this goes on...thanks botoni
     
    Oh and the same name, the all have one of just a few last names like
    Hofer....haha
     
  • botoni said on Mar 18, 2007....
    Mobil.....my dad was a John Deere Technician.  I often went with him to one or another colony.  We always came away with goodies....baked bread/pickles/chickens. 
    I believe the men are required to wear a bear when they marry. 
    Stealing....a common rumor here as well although I dont know of any instances of anyone from a colony being caught stealing.
    The 'fresh blood' rumor abounds here too, again, never have heard of anyone who actually claimed to have participated.
    I ve not noticed the glasses thing here.  In fact quite the opposite would appear to be the case.  I ve seldom seen a Hutterite with glasses.
    Hofer/Wiens/Jacobs.....but you re right Hofer is the most common.  First names seem to be limited too.
    I ve eaten meals on a colony here.  If I have guests visiting who are not familiar with Hutterites I often take them for a visit.   Sometimes we pre-arrange to stay for a meal.  Pricey in my mind but good food.
  • gingersoul said on Mar 18, 2007....

    Bot...many years ago i visited Lancaster County, as Secret did, just to visit the Amish community. I always have had a fascination with them.

    They are a powerful examples of how pacifism and community life can be applied and safely brought upon this present capitalistic society.

    I bought 2 jars of honey and a iron hand made post sign at one shop. I saw some of them riding their carriages. They dont like to be stared at ....and so i tried not look at them without  making them feel uncomfortable......but they are fascinating people..

    Did you see that old moviue with Harrison Ford "Witness' about this Amish boy who witnessed a homicide and Ford pretends to be an Amish to protect him and understand who was the murderer? Nice movie...it depicts some of the habits of the Amish. I remember they were quite pleased by the way the movie had been portraiting them...

    Coincidence....while i write on TLC channel there is a documentary about the Amish and my daughter is watching it because she told me she wants to nwo more about them...smartie kid...lol..

    Interesting post, Bot....please, a tour would be very nice...:-)

  • botoni said on Mar 18, 2007....
    ginger..............yes I did see that movie.  Loved it too.  I m very much interested in the experiences other have had with these groups.  I ll get to the tour eventually.  Thanks for reading.
  • mobil said on Mar 18, 2007....
    Did they charge you to eat with them botoni? I was never charged for a
    meal and wouldn't have stayed to eat if I were.
     
    I am Pennsylvania Dutch myself, not to far removed from these others that
    we are talking about here. Where I was born, ham was pronounced M and
    eggs were pronounced X.
     
    I saw a restaurant sign once that said; M one dollar, X fifty cents. M&X
    a dollar fifty......haha
     
    Yes, I saw that movie too, with Harrison Ford, forget the name of it now.
  • RollingC said on Mar 19, 2007....
    Mennonites abound in South America. In Paraguay they have their own colony/town and they sustain themselves with a dairy industry that is quite good.  Apparently they made a deal with the Government (about 2 or 3 generations ago) to develop the land in the dry interior (called the Chaco ) which is like a dry everglades, and they'd be left to their own devices and given tax breaks etc. It's a thriving industry that they've developed and the quality of their products is unquestionable.
    Their biggest success in the market place over there is the long life milk they produce the doesn't need refrigeration for months or until opened.  They're said to have come down from Canada and their colony is a thriving modern looking town that oddly has dirt roads instead of paved or cobblestoned and cobblestoned was very common down there until recent years. They're hell on modern cars but the old 50's and 60's American cars can take the pounding better than any other I know. Since last 20yrs the country's been switching to modern paved roads
    The ones I've seen dress and drive modern cars like everyone else except maybe they don't have the latest fashion.
      
  • Bluesmurfy said on Mar 19, 2007....
    call me interested
  • botoni said on Mar 19, 2007....
    Ok Interested.....or would you rather I call you Bluesmurfy like the rest will?
     
    Welcome to SC!  Post and play with us!
  • silverwhisper said on Mar 19, 2007....
    botoni, i've never heard of hutterites until this post, but have definitely heard of the mennonites and amish. i attended school near a large amish community in fact.

    mobil: you're a dutchie? now that's interesting.

    ed
  • mobil said on Mar 19, 2007....
    Yes SW, Pennsylvania Dutch on my Mom's side back to 1746 there.
  • Bluesmurfy said on Mar 19, 2007....
    okay buttoni
  • botoni said on Mar 19, 2007....
    ya got me Blues!......lol........I ll get to the continuation of this blog yet
     
    Mobil......one of the colonies near here will actually host groups for a meal.  They even allow selection from their menu if its pre-arranged.  Hutterites are pretty much willing to make a buck anyway they can.
     
    Interesting history you have.  Although my ancestors were not Mennonite three of my Dads sisters married Mennonite men......thus my connection.  I can hear the accent  M & X for breakfast!
     
     
    Correct me here mobil if I m off base.  I believe the Pennsylvania Dutch were also a group originally closely connected to the Anabaptists of the 1600s.  I think an association with Mennonites is also there.   The came, I believe, from Holland most back to the time when the Mennonites were settling in Pennsylvania.  A misconception exists for some folks around the name Pennsylvania Dutch.  The German word for the German language is doitch (sp)....which sounds a bit like Dutch.  Older Mennonite communities spoke doitch (German) and now there are a lot of cross over words.  Some have presumed Pennsylvania Dutch to be another name for Mennonite....not so.
     
    RollingC.......You ve added to my knowledge base re:  Mennonites.  I know there are groups in Mexico but didnt realize the rest of SA.  Most of modern Mennonites do not stand out at all from anyone else.  Their clothing, their lifestyle, their homes and conveniences are much the same as yours and mine.  In Alberta there are some Mennonite groups who have held on to the values and customs that where practiced 50 years ago (head coverings etc.)
     
    Silverwhisper.............few people who have not lived near Hutterites would be aware of them.  A question for you....the Amish community you lived near....did their children attend private Amish only schools or did they attend regular public schools?
     
     
  • mobil said on Mar 19, 2007....
    Anything for a buck, yes, that's so true. I haven't been to a colony for some
    time now botoni, they may be doing the menu and meal thing here to now.
     
    I am sure you are right about the Pennsylvania Dutch connection botoni. One
    of the problems in researching genealogy is the branches on any family tree.
     
    You go back to your grandparents and there are four people. To Great and there are eight and so on. Till you have so many people and branches it is
    painstaking to follow all the lines.
     
    For example, my GGGG Grandmother on my Father's was a Quaker woman
    who married a Welsh man, enter mostly Welsh, but then a Pennsylvania
    Dutch woman on Father's side as well.
     
    On Mother's side, mostly Pennsylvania Dutch, but a GGG Grandmother who
    was French and a GG Grandmother who was a full blood Iroquois Indian
    woman.
     
    You see, in this melting pot, things get somewhat deluted. My Mom spoke
    German at home as a child, she lost the language and I speak no German.
    thanks botoni.
  • botoni said on Mar 19, 2007....
    Lol Mobil.......You are a genuine American.....As I am a genuine Canadian.....enough nationalities in the background that no one can remember them all.
  • MarkH. said on Dec 23, 2007....
    Just stumbled across this topic. I am a Hutterite from Manitoba who would like to clarify a few points: 1. We pay income tax just like everyone else...members of a colony are considered shareholders. We earn X amount of $$ from Agriculture and Manufacturing, how could we possibly avoid paying income tax? In fact, if you took an average colony's total income, minus the business expenses, and divided by the members, it would be lower than the lowest tax bracket! We could use this to our advantage by having multiple bank accounts, but we don't. 2. We only buy farms from people that want to sell them. We have dozens of neighbors who also farm, on land right next to ours. Again, if you look at the number of people living on a colony, we have far less land per person than the average farm family. Where did you get the idea that we own all the land around our colonies? 3. We buy parts, machinery, lumber, tools, electrical equipment, vehicles, and groceries from businesses in the surrounding area. Why wouldn't we? Cheaper prices in the larger cities are offset by traveling expenses. 4. Education up to Grade 12 and on to University is becoming quite common. I actually earned an education degree and now teach in our colony school. 5. To say the we devastate the local community is simply not accurate. We own 3000+ acres of land, but so do several of our neighbors. We run a hog operation, but it's just one of several in the area. We manufacture kitchen and commercial cabinets, but so do a dozen other companies in nearby Winnipeg and Selkirk.
  • botoni said on Jan 03, 2008....
    MarkH....Thank you for reading my ramblings on my perceptions of Hutterite colonies in our area. I ve obviously made some judgements based in ignorance and I apologize. One of the points I was trying to make was that Hutterites are percieved to do less commerce in local communities than non-hutterian residents. This is relevent to the purchase of merchandise more consumer oriented than would be purchased by others. I m trying to say that those of us who are not Hutterite purchase and consume in a different manner. Please do not allow me to present an anit-Hutterite attitude. I see many changes in colonies as time passes. You have surprised me in telling us that it is not uncommon for Hutterites to seek higher education. I appreciate having that knowledge. Please tell us more.
  • MarkJH. said on Jan 03, 2008....
    Not a problem. However...the site is not loading very well for me right now...I'll write more some other time. For now...here's a site you can visit for more information. www.hutterites.org

    Is there any way I could post videos?

    Alles Gute, Mark Hofer.
  • botoni said on Jan 03, 2008....
    Hey Mark! There is definately a way to post videos here. I m pretty much incoherent when it comes to the techinical stuff. I suggest you ask pickersplock to give you some coaching. I m sure she ll be find with you sending her a private message requesting information. Thanks for the site!

Comment on "Hutterites, Amish & Mennonites"


(Separate tags using commas, for example: New York, dating, vegetarian)
Comment Anonymously