• MissMimi said on Mar 11, 2007....

  *applause* I couldn't agree more. I think I know what inspired this post, and your response to her was absolutely correct. We helped our daughter financially while she was in college, but she also worked summers and got student loans. Our son we helped not once, but twice, and he self-destructed both times. Next time, if there is a next time is on his dime.

  Now it's my turn to sound old.  When B and I married, we had nothing, I mean nothing.  We had a bed and a small kitchen table and two chairs, in a tiny one-bedroom apartment.  It was pretty grim, and I won't tell you it was blissful because it wasn't but when you work together toward a common goal, it's worth it.

  Can somebody help me down from this soapbox now? ;)

• missunderstood1162 said on Mar 11, 2007....

  well said.  well said.  Wow. 
  
  
  

• satyr said on Mar 11, 2007....

  I am like Mimi in that I think I know what brought on this post, secretlife.  We have always expected our kids to go to college, and have told them so from an early age.  We never forced any of them to go.  We were never able to put money aside for college for the kids.  Our kids had to work their way through college, with the help of scholarships and grants and loans. 
   
  We have two in college now, and they both work.  Daughter #3 is home on spring break right now,  and she will be spending a fair amount of her time working at the job she has had during summers and while she was on break since high school. 
   
  I think kids who feel they are owed college have gotten a lot of that from their overindulgent parents.  We have tried to be loving parents, but not overindulgent.  The older two are well on their way to successful careers.  The oldest, who just turned 29, expects to have her school loans paid off this next year. 
   
  Our kids, at least for the most part, have learned responsibility and I would like to think the way we raised them had something to do with it.
   
  I am confident that your kids will grow up to be responsible adults too.  They have a wonderful, loving Mom.
   
  {{{{{HUGS}}}}}

• Eilan said on Mar 11, 2007....

  My kids have a college fund. It's called a brain. That's how I paid for my undergraduate education, and I took out loans for grad school.
  
  I knew that my parents wouldn't be able to contribute anything toward my college education, and I didn't expect them to. That's why I worked semi-hard (but not too hard--school was very easy for me) to get a top-notch GPA and kick-ass test scores. I received enough scholarship money that I could take classes during the summer and not have to work and I ended up being able to complete a double major that way.

• momsrock said on Mar 11, 2007....

  My parents were a little different. All four of us had to go to college. But, we were always raised with the understanding that it was a priviledge not a right. We knew what had been sacrificed for us to be able to go. My father always told us the 'rules' from the beginning. Not going is not an option. Each child has a specific amount of money. When it's gone it's gone...choose the school accordingly. But, we also saw how hard he worked our entire lives to put us in that position ...it was a priviledge and not taking advantage of it would have been a slap in his face. Priviledges can be taken away....and it was for me. I'm the only child without a degree because I changed majors 3 times in 3 semesters and floated around and then got pregnant so they stopped paying. Do I feel slighted or bitter? No...because they didn't have to pay for it to begin with. I'm grateful they paid for the time I was there.

  But, I don't think I could do that with my kids because they haven't been raised the same way. I think my parents feel guilty and overcompensate with my kids and everything is just handed to them. I don't think they would have the same mentality that my siblings and I did.

• boyzmom said on Mar 11, 2007....

  I knew people in college whose parents paid the bill, I knew people that worked and had loans, and I know that I just want to encourage my kids to do their best and if they don't know what they want to be when they grow up, I want them to work or go to community college so that they don't turn out like the brats I knew in college. My ex- is one of those brats that thinks his mom owes him even now that he is 38 years old. I will help my kids with college if I can because I want to, but I realize that not all kids succeed in college and would do better with a car to get a good job and that's okay too.

• mobil said on Mar 11, 2007....

  Bravo SL, this is right on the money. I gave each of my five kids five

  thousand dollars a year and paid their room and board. Anything

  over that was theirs. Spoiled kids make lousy adults, lousy adults make

  for bad parenting, bad parenting makes for the direction our country is

  heading in today..........Great post........thanks SL

• beyondtheveil said on Mar 11, 2007....

  secret- Well written. My wife and I feel parents owe kids nothing after 18th birthday or, should I say, after graduating from high school. If the child wishes to attend college and parents can help it is most proper to do so, but they do not owe.
   
  We paid the entire bill for my daughter's under graduate degree except for room and board at her request. She has paid for her graduate degrees and learned much from doing so.
   
  We have never attempted to force college, but have always urged it with our three kids. The decision is up to them.
   
  I would like to say your comments are always proper, well thought out, and helpful.

• mom said on Mar 12, 2007....

  No, I don't believe in footing the bills for my kids to go to College.  If they want to go, they will find a way and will appreciate it more if they have to work for it.  I have seen too many times where kids go to college on their parents dimes and screw off.  I ahve no problem helpingmy kids if they are doing what they can for themselves first, but they are going to have to put forth more of an effort than me when it comes to College.

• Tappa said on Mar 12, 2007....

  I remeber when I left school Mum wanted me to go to Teachers' College but I didn't. After one year of working as a clerk I decided I'd go. I never expected Mum & Dad to help me out - because I had No Idea that it cost Money!
   
  LOL
   
  The college arranged hostel accommodation and payment came out of my grant. But I never knew that wa happening!! How DUMB was that?
  When i left the hostel to go flatting I couldn't figure where the extra money was coming from into my account - it was the full grant now. Cool! I can give my flatmates some rent money! When I handed the rent over and mentioned how I didn't know where I got it, the elder of the flatmates patiently explained to me how it worked!
   
  The only help I got form my folks was the physical assistance in shifting house. But then, I never actually asked for help.
   
  (Tho' I did sew myself a waistcoat for partying in, from a pair of what I thought were unwanted kitchen curtains in Mum's cupbpard! Very "hippy-ish! <well it was 1971>)

• ninjapirate said on Mar 12, 2007....

  I see how this post got around.  I am in college, part time right now, and I accept that I am lucky to not have to worry about how to keep paying for college.  I do not think it is a fact of being owed something or not, or of taking responsiblity or of being unappreciative.  It is about not knowing where you fit in a life you are forced into.  Yes, forced by only certain classes you have to get through, or you only qualify for certain schools, you have to see certain people everyday that you don't like, or you're pressured by be it your family/society to go through these things, so it makes life dreadful in the now.  Sure you say  thats life, get over it, move on, but was life this scary then?  Did you have yourself together or at least somewhat?  Did you have close great friends to count on?  Did you know what you wanted and have something to worked toward for it or at least an idea?  These things lack greatly right now in lives like mine and the way the world is right now is much worse.  Believe me, I would give everything if I could make it to where my mom wouldn't have to work anymore, she does not have to pay for my college btw.  I can't wait for the day when I will hopefully make enough where she won't have to work, but I need myself together, I need to figure out how to get through those lousy days without thinking horrible things about myself or about whats going on.  Sure I can take time off, get a lousy shit job, and find myself that way, but oh I already did that.  I saw how those jobs are it for some people, and man I feel horrible that I live in a world like this.  I pray that this won't last, that I'll figure stuff out somehow, that I will be alright with the world.               

• ninjapirate said on Mar 12, 2007....

  Sorry but may I also say, that sure after 18 call us adults, but it's only a number really.  We do try to face up to these responsiblities.  It takes awhile, seriously, to get used to everything the way it is has been set up for us, which is no choice of ours, and for someone like me I truly don't like it and need to somehow find some peace with it if I want to keep going.   

• secretlife said on Mar 12, 2007....

  mimi:  i got a little cranky last night, huh?  it's just that i see so frequently the inablitiy of kids to be thankful for the privledge they have- for not even realizing why they are lucky to begin with.  i cannot imagine starting from that place and finding anything good in life. 
   
  i started with more than you did.  but still those first years were a financial struggle.  You think 'oh i've got my degree' and i'll find a good job.  well the next lesson is good jobs don't just fall from the sky, nor are they guaranteed. 
   
  but working alone or together toward a goal.....that's the real lesson of those early years.  having the perseverence and strength of character to build something from nothing.....
   
  miss: thank you
   
  satyr:  i don't think there's anything wrong, and perhaps ALOT right in not just footing the bill, even if you can afford to.   what does it teach 18-21 yr olds by doing that?  to have to work and contribute and realize the value of those 4 years is a very healthy thing....
   
  i have a cousin who's first son went off to college last year.  he insisted on UNC-chapel hill.  His dad is a cop/his mom a nurse.  They were well-intentioned and had saved their whole lives for this.  30K and not even a school year later, he was sent home because he flunked out.  He did not even understand the fact that his parents worked 20 years to save up for that one year of partying.....
  i remember similar scenarios from my own youth.
   
  very sad.
   
  he's working now as a waiter and paying his own way as a part time student in a state school.  he seems to be doing better this way.....
   
  Eilan:  i agree with you.  my parents decided to fund my first year at school and didn't want me to work.  I abused their generosity in many ways-  my grades were mediocre, i often didn't show up to class, and i was basically just aimlessly going day to day-
  at the end of my first year i considered leaving, but decided to get a job, apply for some grants, and continue paying on my own.  i figured that way, if i did poorly, it was my buck....
   
  it was only then that i started to realize the value of my education.  funny how working and paying has that effect.
   
  i figured out how to get grants and loans and it was me responsible for that degree.....it was what I wanted, not what someone else wanted FOR me.....
   
  moms:  you're right, and privileges can be taken away....the worst part is when kids don't even realize that they are privileged to begin with.  then it become expecation that things are 'owed'....
   
  i know what you mean about your parents and spoiling and giving the kids  everthing because mine have done similar things with my kids.  what i notice about this, and have noticed and tried to communicate to my mom, is that the more they are given, the less they appreciate what they have....
   
  boyz:  all kids are different, and as a parent you have to know your kids to know what's the best course.  as parents it's only natural to want to support and guide them when we can and how we can. 
   
  i want to help my kids too.
   
  but i also want them to realize that there's a limit.  i want them to understand the expenses and how the savings account that is helping them got there to begin with.  And i want to to choose their schools accordingly ...and either suppliment by working, getting scholarships or grants, or taking loans, understanding full well that these will have to be paid back by them when they go to work.  i want to raise responsible adults.  i think these lessons are part of that.
   
  mobil:  i've been as guilty as anyone of spoiling my kids.  but there comes a point where it goes beyond that even.....to the place where they don't even realize how lucky they are in relation to the rest of the world.....
  pointing this out, and making them see the realities ...well at 18, i think that should be a requirement.  i tell mine that there's no money tree in the backyard where i can go and pick off a few stacks of $50s....i want them to appreciate the things i've worked my whole life for.  and i want them to understand the concept that they have a responsibility for their own futures.
   
   

• sweetsoul said on Mar 12, 2007....

  I don't believe parents 'owe' their kids a university degree, but that doesn't mean they may not decide to pay for it. It's always been my philosophy that I earned the money, so it's my choice what I spend it on.
   
  When I grew up it was always expected that I'd go to university...unusual for women at the time. My parent's paid for my education. I worked during the summer holidays and used it for spending money but my parent's paid for essentials. I don't htink I took  it for granted or was ungrateful.
   
  When my sons went to university, I paid for it, with the caveat up front that it was for four years only. Got mixed results from that.
   
  One finished his 4 year degree after the difficulty he had adjusting in first year, resulting in being asked by the university to take a year off after his first year. It was a good decision because although initially shattered by the decision, he went back with a vengence for doing well.
   
  The other got lost in a group of friends who thought it should take 7 years to get a 4 year degree.   :(  By the end of his four years, he didn't have a 3 year degree! I stopped paying and he stopped attending school.
   
  The first son  I mentioned, after a few years working has decided he wants an MBA. He's got his employer to pay for part of it and he and his wife are paying for the rest, while he takes it part-time while working.
   
  The second son I mentioned, had difficulty getting a job he wanted without a university degree. He's working now happy with his job. He's slowly but surely, by correspondence, finishing the last few courses he needs to take to complete his degree. oh yes and he's definitely paying for it.
   
  Would they have done better if I hadn't paid? I'm not sure.
   

• boyzmom said on Mar 12, 2007....

  Sweetsoul- I think you were considerate of the fact that all kids are different and not all kids will excel in college and gave both the kids the same chance to get a degree. I think they both demonstrated gratitude for what you had done for them by finishing what they started even when they had to pay for it. I just wish I would be able to offer my kids college tuition, but won't be able to if I wanted to probably.

• gingersoul said on Mar 12, 2007....

  Secret...i know where this post come from. And i couldn't agree with you more. I read your comments......:-)

  Given the possibility to go to college a lot of kids just take it for granted and feel like they have been sent to work in some mine or to an amusement park, it depends by the attitude and the level of entertainment involved.....

  Why don't i have more sympathy? Because i have been one of them. The whining one, the one going to college feeling the most miserable, wronged, forced and missunderstood person in the whole world...oh why oh my why me?

  Idiot. I was just an idiot. My parents didnt "force" me to go but it was the general expectation....They paid any single cent of my college education though . Without pressuring me to choosee this or that major. I didn't even give a cent back to them. They didnt expect me to do so. To my defense, at that time in the society i was growing up, there was no even the palest thought of kids repaying parents for college money spent on them. The norm was the kids would have taken care of theirs parents when they would have grown old. And for doing so the kids needed to study and land a good job. 

  Now do i feel proud of myself? No. Do i think i have been a spoiled brat? Yes.

  Am i going to do the same with my daughter? Heck no.

  Having to pay for their own education, partially or in total, give kids pressure. On time and focus. They know they can't fool around and they have to perform at their best.

  Me? I was going to college like i was going for my personal enrichment. I liked to study but i wasnt studying for any future carrier.

  So wrong. I didn't concentrate enough to understand which one was my path. I changed major twice. Wasting time. Then i landed a job before even finishing college and for its nature this job didnt give me enough time to continue to study. At that time there were no evening or online courses. I have been lucky that that job has been a very rewarding one. Otherwise i might have quit and waste my time and my parenst money for nothing.

• satyr said on Mar 12, 2007....

  Secretlife,  I couldn't agree more with you.  I should pass on my own experiences, as shameful as they are.  I went to a small private college some hours from home.  I didn't have great grades from high school, because I didn't work, but my test scores on the college entrance exams were phenomenal.  I was given a lot of aid through scholarships.   My parents told me that they would cover my college costs, but I had to work for whatever spending money I wanted.
   
  Back in those days, colleges were trying to be progressive (most still are) and part of the philosophy of this college was not to intimidate incoming freshman, so freashman year was Pass/Fail.  If you got an A-D you passed, if not you failed.  If you can coast and get a D and end up with the same grade as if you bust your ass and get an A, why bother, right?  Well, I became pretty good at poker my freshman year in the dorm. 
   
  My sophomore year was on grades.  I refined my bridge playing skills.  I had never learned to study in high school because I never had to.  My freshman year in college I learned to party, so I still didn't know how to study.  My sophomore year I played as I always had and ended up losing my scholarships.  I finished out my college career on loans.  If I had a clue what I wanted to do when I got out of high school I might have been interested in higher education, but I was too young.  I'd have done better if I had joined the service or gotten a job and worked before going on to college.
   
  I think many kids today lack direction in their lives too.
   
  Oh, and you are not OLD!!!

• secretlife said on Mar 12, 2007....

  beyond:  i am with you-  i would love to help my kids after they graduate, and of course i will as much as i can.  but at that point, i'd like to know that my help is not something they feel 'owed', and that they appreciate it.

  i'd like to believe that if my kids go to college, they've made the decision themselves....i know i will have had some influence in their decision, but i want them to want to go, and want to be there.....

  otherwise, it's a recipe for disaster and much unhappiness in my opinion.

  thanks for thinking my comments aren't meant to be nasty.  they really aren't.  i do try to think out what i'm saying most of the time.

  mom:  i know what you mean about seeing kids screwing off because someone else is footing the bill.  if i can help my kids, i'm happy to help.  i'd like to see that they appreciate it by getting decent grades and working when they can to help with the expenses.  to me, that's the proof....

  tappa:  LOL....yeah i know.  it's so easy when you don't have to pay the bills to think that things cost money......and just how much money too.....

  when you're working for a living, and you are trying to pay 20K or 30K a year....it's then that you realize just what that education costs!

  i'm glad one of your roommates eventually explained how you ended up with money!!! lol!  eventually we have to learn that!

  i'm laughing over you making hippy clothes out of your mum's kitchen curtains!  i can only imagine how stylish you looked! 

  ninja:  it might seem like things have changed to you, but believe me, i went to college in the late 1970's and early 1980's and things haven't changed all that much.  We had to take certain 'core' classes then too.   I mean i was majoring in English, and didn't really want to take French, or Accounting or Biology....but i had to take them in order to get my degree....because a college degree is more than just your major...it's supposed to represent a well-rounded education.

  i had to go to a college that accepted me based upon my grades, my SAT scores, and what I could afford.  I think it's basically the same thing now.  I did not get to go to the college that was my first choice.  Princeton was not interested in me, and i had to accept that.

  I really had no idea when i started what i wanted to do.  I knew I liked reading and writing.......I started out majoring in journalism....hated it and switched to English mid-way thru my 2nd year because i didn't have to lose credits i'd already taken....but even then, i had no clue whatsoever what kind of job i could actually get with that degree....none.

  at first i had no friends on campus.  i went in a stranger.  also i found the social part hard to be honest.  i missed my old friends.  i had lots of classes with people who were strangers and who i really didn't want to get to know.  but slowly i made a few friends....it's a big change going from high school and living home to college and moving away or having everyone you know move away if you stay home....

  but that's part of the whole experience too....that's part of growing up.  i know by 18 lots ...most kids just aren't ready to face the total responsibility of being adults.  i wasn't.

  but during those 4 years, i did have to grow up.  i had to learn that not everyone i met was going to be my friend.  i had to learn that some people who i thought were my friends weren't such great friends after all.  i had to learn that hard work pays off in better grades, and sometimes i would have to do things i didn't like or didn't want to do....just because that was what was required....these are all life lessons.  this is how you grow.

  when i graduated i spent 4 months sending out resumes.  i found nothing where i could actually say i was using my degree, and opted to go to grad school.  Then i decided to get a teaching certificate.  i used that for only a few years and then got into business, working my way from the bottom (and really the bottom) up.  hard work and perseverence......things i began to learn in college....they've never failed me in my life.  adapting to change ...that's invaluable.  making decisions based upon what was going on in the rest of my life and then being responsible for them....that is what makes me an adult.  all of these life lessons....this is what you are being taught, in addition to whatever it is you are majoring in at college.

  i wish you the best in your studies and in finding your way.  try to remember that most of the others with you are doing the same....we're all faced with similar things.  it's how you face them that builds your character.

   

• secretlife said on Mar 12, 2007....

  sweetsoul:  i really like the caveat about 4 years only.  i'm going to use that one myself.  i see so many kids now who assume 5 years..or more.  i think that's another sign of our times in a way.....i mean why bust your ass taking 15 or 18 credits (ummm because being a full time student is like a full time job???) when mom or dad will pay for another year or year and a half...and you can take easy loads for those years???  it's taking advantage in my opinion....

  i hate 2nd guessing, so i don't often do that.  if i make a decision, and it works out reasonably well, then i'm not going to sit and ponder..would it have been better if ...most days.  it sounds like both of your boys have made it to adulthood and are doing fine even if they made some mistakes along the way (which we all do) because you held them responsible and kept to your word.....

   

  boyz:  you know, there are lots of ways you can help your kids with their education besides giving them the money.  you can help them decide the right school, the right courses, do research into grants and scholarships....and all of these things certainly help as much as handing over hard cash.

  so don't despair.  there are many things you can do to help them when the time comes, even if you don't have a big bank account!  and they will matter just as much.

   

  ginger:  ohhhhhhhhh so you were a spoiled brat???

  it's hard to look back and say.......oh i was an idiot that i didn't appreciate all that my family tried to do for me.....believe me, i've had my share of idiot moments....

  i agree with you that having the kids work and help pay gives them incentives to do well and appreicate the opportunities and not just wander aimlessly and graduate with the expectation that the world then 'owes' them a great job.  I think that's why so many are disappointed.....they have spent their whole lives expecting rahter than actually earning and doing for themselves.  they are set up for disappointment and unhappiness.  So yes, work, focus, be busy.....those years are for fun, but also for the serious task of preparing yourself for what is to come after.  And how do you tell them that even after working hard for 4 years or more, that life often doesn't just 'come together' magically? 

  satyr:  poker and bridge huh?  lost scholarships traded for loans......hard lessons for you my dear.  but hindsight is 20/20....and there aren't alot of kids who get out of high school with any clear direction of what they really want to do.

  i think that's partially a failure of our education system...to not expose kids more to the skills that they'll need to survive in their futures. it's also partially just a factor of youth.  it's hard to decide what to do on friday night.  how are you supposed to figure out what you want to do for your lifetime? 

  colleges are used for this purpose....a little extra time bought to grow up and figure yourself and your place in the world out.  but i fear that by making it sooo easy to just coast, we do this generation a big dis-service....

• dailyachesandpains said on Mar 12, 2007....

  SL, my Parent's all but MADE me go to college.  I dropped out numerous times.  My Mother knew I had 'people' issues and it was worse in college.  I kept telling her that I couldn't do it, yet she insisted that I went, and she and Dad paid for it.  When they went away on vacation, I quit.  I had it!  This time I had withdrawn early enough for them to not be in the hole again.  At least I did something right. 
   
  I couldn't be like my Sisters graduating Sumna and Magna something Latin or other.  Being the last born, I was supposed to be just as smart as them?  Well, she thought I could do it, but she always told me growing up that I could never be as smart as them...why after all my life hearing that would I ever expect to do as well as they did?  I'll admit, in grade school and high school, I had excellent grades. 
   
  Just before I was engaged to my Husband, I decided to have a go at it again, on my own dime.  Thinking, my own dime would make me stay and focus.  It didn't.  I was never cut out for school and I never will be.  I withdrew. 
   
  Little Daily has two funds set up for her.  I will never pressure her into going to school.  If she wants to, fine, if not, she can get a job. 
   
  I wish you were my Mother, SL, I really do! 
   
  Daily

• kruuyai said on Mar 12, 2007....

  SL:  I agree with everything you said.  My parents didn't even believe in a college education, and I went in spite of them and paid the bill myself.  I graduated from high school when I was 17.  That first summer, while still living in my parents house, I worked in a glue factory to save up for a one year program in Graphic Arts.  I lived in my own apartment while I was taking the Graphic Arts program and worked part time in a submarine sandwich shoppe.  Then, I worked as a graphic artist for three years before I went to the local branch of the state university.  I worked part time (in graphic arts) and took out some student loans while I was in school.  At that time, I was competing for grades with kids whose parents were giving them a free ride, and they didn't have to work like I did, but I got better grades than most of them, because I was actually studying.  By the time I got to grad school, I was able to get out-of-state tuition waivers and stipends, so that was easy... but when you have to work to support yourself through school, and nobody in your family can even fathom why you would want to go to college.... you appreciate the value of your education.

• secretlife said on Mar 12, 2007....

  daily:  i can't blame your parents for wanting you to go....i really in my heart hope that my children will all go.  but i also know that college isn't for everyone....and there are other types of schools trade, technical, art...that can provide the skills and learning too...if you know in your heart you aren't going to be happy there, then you owe it to yourself to do something else if/until such time that you have a change of heart.  lots of people wait to go to college....take time off when they don't do well, and go back later, work and have their employers help fund, etc. etc.  There's no one right way to live your life.  And there's nobody that knows what's right for you quite like you do....

  i know whatever little daily decides, you will support her.  that's what's important.

  kruu: it's like most things in life........when you have to work hard you appreciate it more.  i hear you.

• mobil said on Mar 12, 2007....

  Hey SL, The problem with discussing these things with an eighteen year
  old is that they want to be viewed as adults.
   
  I remember feeling like an adult at eighteen, and I don't think anyone could
  convinced me that I didn't have all the information I needed at the time.
   
  Buy your ticket and ride the train, no better experience than a bumpy ride.
  I think my train left the tracks for a few years, nothing like it for growing
  up SL.
   
  We can lead the horse to the water and talk horsey talk all the way there.
  If that horsey won't drink, take her home, she'll drink the next time, I
  guarantee it........thanks SL, great post

• agentPit said on Mar 12, 2007....

  Kids these days are mostly spoiled and too much of the ego go around.
  If you don't bare your responsibility a little longer, as parent, they may end up behind bars or death. Theirs future being educated are better than passed those materials onto them when your time is up.
  
  Of course, if you are another loser poor parent, they could always join army to get themselves educated, hopefully not kill by terrorists before dream fulfills.
  

• dailyachesandpains said on Mar 12, 2007....

  <fighting back the tears> thank you, SL.  You're right, I will support Little Daily no matter what she does.  I WON'T allow her to model if she wants to until she is the age of 18 though.  After 18 I'll back her up.  I wouldn't ever expose her to that as early as I was and I will never allow it to ruin her life (food, self esteem) like it did mine.  I just won't let that happen to her. 
   
  {{{hugs}}}
  Daily

• husbandhater said on Mar 12, 2007....

  Oh Secret I am so glad to see this post! Excellent and funny! This generation is such a trip. If you don't owe them they want it right away(The gimme gimme I
  I want it now generation is what I call them) Kudos We owe them nothing but a clean place to stay,heat when its cold,food in their bellies,clean decent clothes on their back and lots of love for 18yrs. I always tell mines when you hit 18 your on your own,lol! If your going to school maybe we can discuss it but if your not you will be working!

• secretlife said on Mar 13, 2007....

  mobil:  yes you are right.   when i was 18 and 19 i know i thought i knew everything about life and i'd hardly lived at all.....

  you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink....

  i was reading something truthsayer had written the other day and thinking of giving the same piece of advice, then figured it sounded negative so let it go....

  some tomorrow, when they're thirsty........they will drink.  it will not have a thing to do with my prodding it to drink.

  daily:  i know you won't let her model til she's an adult.  and i hope by that time she wants to be a rocket scientist instead!

  Hh:  seems like the hands are always out...and the turnaround has to be FAST....i know just what you mean.  spoiled.  we've spoiled them rotten.

   

   

   

• vanishingspirit612002@yahoo.com said on Mar 14, 2007....

  SL..Great post, I have a step-son trying to go to a tech school. I am just wondering, how the hell he will make it. He is depending on us and his mother to fill out the grant and loan paper's...I think he thinks some or all of us will be going to school for him also. he will be required (by school.) to work and go to school which I think is great, (hopefully he will stay busy and out of trouble). The school will set him up in an apartment with 2 other guys,he will go to school during week, work in evening's and week-ends with only sunday's off.So far I am really worried, he rely's too much on us all to carry out his plans. he has put of applying for loans and ect. until now, when the dead line is approaching. Kids now days expect soooo much from there parents and are sooo ungrateful.It is definately a different world. vanishingspirit

• bbblog said on Apr 27, 2007....

  No, they don't owe it to their kids, but it sure helps them get through.  My mom paid for my college and grad school, both private schools and ditto for my brother.  I really don't know how she did it, alone too.  I wish she had shared more of the reality of the financial situation/ strain it placed on her, but I'm still a good person.  It took me a bit longer to adjust to the "real" world, but I'm going to do the same thing for my child if possible.  It's hard when you're 18 to be faced with so many decisions, so much pressure and also try to figure out who you are/ what you want to study.  I'm so glad my mom made it easy for me.  I will be forever grateful for her gifts of my education.  I honestly don't think I would have finished school if it weren't for her pushing me and her willingness to bear the financial burden.  I'm so glad I can face adulthood without mounting debt.

• mom said on Apr 27, 2007....

  BB- I agree with you.  What I don't agree with is the children that think their parents owe it to them.  I have seen too many times where a kid has his parents pay for college just so he can party for another 2/4 years.  I would certainly help my children if they were serious. :)  I am glad you appreciated your mother for it.  It is nice to read about a sons appreciation for his parents and the sacrifices they made.  You are a good son.

• bbblog said on May 01, 2007....

  Mom- Thanks for your note. One problem though, I'm a daughter. My mom paid for my brother's education too. We both appreciate it. I know the sacrifices she made and as a mother of a child myself, I don't know how she did it. She did it a single mom too....go figure. One tough, loving, kind lady with her priorities straight. She's my role model for life.

• secretlife said on May 01, 2007....

  i think that's really the key.  if you're lucky enough to have parents who can help you get your degree, then you should at least appreciate what they're doing for you.

• mom said on May 01, 2007....

  bbblog- I am so sorry,  It is nice to read about a daughters appreciation for her parents and the sacrifices they made.  You are a good daughter.

  I think the reason I felt you were a guy, is because many times i have heard boys expressing their appreciation for their mothers.  Sorry, I won't do that again.

• confuzzledwife said on Oct 01, 2007....

  woah!

  and I thought I was the only one who felt this way!  When I was working outside of the home I was involved in a conversation with 2 other moms who felt they owed their grown kids (in their early 20s) a place to live for free and to pay for their college education.  At first I didn't say much, but then as it was eating away at me I finally broke down and said "wait a minute here!"  I couldn't take it anymore, one woman had her 22 year old son living in the basement rent free, he wasn't working, and wasn't going to school- he was deciding what to do with his life!  I was beside myself. 

  I have been working since I was 15 part time to buy my own clothes- my parents paid for my necessities and paid for me to go to a private high school.  I chose to get a job so I could buy those extra things, name brand clothes, etc.,

  When I got out of high school I chose not to go to college right away but was working 2 jobs, my choice- and I was paying rent until I moved out- I don't understand today's way of thinking- we are raising a bunch of whiners I swear. 

  My daughter knew at 16 that if she wanted name brand clothes then she could get a job part time and she did- that is expected in my house... while her bf is going on 20, unemployed, living off mommy, playing video games, buying the most expensive cell phones, clothing, you name it.. and no one seems to be bothered by this more than I am!

  My daughter wasn't raised this way, and the fact that she's OK with this bum irks me to no end- I hope someday soon she'll smarten up!

• secretlife said on Oct 01, 2007....

  all you can do it teach your own children, and pray that these values are deeply enough instilled in them that one day she will open her eyes and really see what this boyfriend is all about.

  i'm pretty sure she will.

• dyingman said on Jan 27, 2008....

  It's the job that makes them understand why they go to college.
  
  Owe.  Ridiculous!
  What about parents who CAN'T pay for college.  Are they automatic failures?
  Food, shelter, and if no one objects, love.  Them's all ya gits.
  
  Dyingwife is a more generous soul.
  I think she'd sell my body parts before our kids were left out of college for money alone.  I think we may have one of our rougher marital spats about that right before I donate my kidneys.
  
  

• secretlife said on Jan 27, 2008....

  dying:  LOL.....ok, you made me laugh.

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