SoulCast - Do some women deserve to be raped?

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Do some women deserve to be raped?

Controversial subject? Of course. I ask this because from the stats I've read many of the rape victims in the world are multiple time victims. Is there something that singles them out? More than that is there a point where you have to stop pitying the victim (while still blaming the perpetuator) case in point if a black man storrms a KKK meeting screaming Black Power I can't pity him when he gets beat down. So what are other logical opinions?

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Comments

shekinah said on Mar 11, 2007....

well i tend to believe that pity does nothing to resolve the actual issue, or assist a person who has just been raped or assist in bringing justice, or help resolve the abuse on a larger scale. So yes i would stop pitying as it's so ineffective anyway.

btw....You're posts so far seem to be on the trolling end of the spectrum, but giving you the benefit of the doubt i will keep going with the little info i really have on rape and all it's effects and causes.

do some women 'deserve' to be raped? Interesting question and one that i would probably re-word. Some women (because of life experience so far) may unconsciously 'expect' harsh treatment from men, and therefore play out a certain role in their life (all unconscious of course) to unbeknowns to them, bring about or create the circumstance they feel they are worthy of.

its a very complicated issue and i would suggest that no one 'deserves' horrific treatment in any way shape or form. no matter what the circumstances surrounding them.

shekinah
mom said on Mar 11, 2007....

Sean, Sean, Sean- you just love to stir the pot and then sit back don't you? I think that is what makes you so interesting. No one deserves to be raped, Ever. I think that sometimes, we don't always use our heads or learn to be cautious enough to stay way from certain situations. Here in Seattle, men are raping men. It is crazy, do men deserve to be raped? Rape is a crime about control and striking someone in a way that humiliates. Have you ever or would you ever rape someone? If you haven't or would never then ask yourself why you wouldn't. What causes a person to rape? Do you think it is a crime of sex?

What would be the worst thing that could happen to you, personally? I am curious as to why this is hard for you to understand.
queenparanoia said on Mar 11, 2007....

i totally agree with mom. rape is not only a physical thing but you are controlled psychologically. nope i dont think some women deserve it. no one deserves it. rape is evil because you find pleasure in what you are doing. and that is degrading the person you are raping.
silverwhisper said on Mar 11, 2007....
rape is a terrible thing b/c it steals joy and intimacy. who would you ever deliberately consign to such a fate?

your analogy, btw, is completely fucked. the man running into a KKK meeting doing that has deliberately chosen to enter a situation. he took on that risk. women however are in the overwhelming percentage of cases raped by people they know and in some measure trust. for your analogy to work, you would have to penalize women for trusting people that they thought trustworthy and i think that's either utterly insane or criminally dumb.

ed

ALIENated said on Mar 11, 2007....

When I was young, four of us were out parking in the middle of the day. Me and
my girl were in the front seat with the other couple in the back seat. I got my
girls clothes off. When I tried to stick a finger in her pussy, she slapped me. What
the ... I slapped her back. But I told her to get dressed and I took her home. We
never went out again. I felt she was asking for it, but then changed her mind. I
am glad that is as far as it went. There are too many fishies in the sea. No
should mean no. Take it and move on.

Jamwa said on Mar 11, 2007....

Oooh you certainly know what buttons to push to cause a reaction, personally I think you have a disgusting attitude!! Lets put you inside a cell with the meanest looking man we can find and then see if you still have the same view of rape!
secretlife said on Mar 11, 2007....

Sean: No.
husbandhater said on Mar 11, 2007....

What are you taking a page from Steelman's book?
husbandhater said on Mar 11, 2007....

I was raped twice in my life. Molested at 6 and then raped at 17going on 18, as I was passed out ;by a guy I had already said NO to. Note: I already said NO when he asked. I passed out and awoke to him having already invited himself to my body(with no protection,which I always used and was 1 of a couple of reasons for my no. 1 of the many other reasons was that we didn't know eachother that well). I began to push him off and he held me down saying wait I'm finishing. I screamed and began to push and he was done. I jumped up and screamed at him: I said NO how could you violate me like that? I ran away and started crying I guess I deserved both times too Sean?

No woman deserves to be violated. A black man walking into a kkk meeting and yelling Black Power is not the same as a woman expecting to be respected by any man she knows or doesn't know very well. Excuse me for breathing and expecting people to be decent! Excuse me for expecting a man to know boundaries, limits,respect and that no means NO!
Zayda said on Mar 11, 2007....
I don't think anyone--man or woman--deserves to be raped.

Part of me wants to give you the benefit of the doubt, here, Sean, in regards to the question you are asking. You seem to be asking why some women are multiple rape victims and what they do to put themselves in the situation where they would be a victim multiple times after they have been raped once.

But then asking asking that question presumes that something the woman does indicates she wants to be raped. Or that she is purposely putting herself in a situation where rape is likely to occur. All of that, btw, indicates to me that you are somehow implying that somehow it is the woman's fault she is raped (whether it's once or multiple times).

Silver is right about your analogy being crap. The man willing chooses to go crashing into the KKK meeting. No woman willing chooses to be raped or to put themselves in a situation where they could be raped.

I certainly didn't intentionally put myself in a situation to be raped by the closest friend of my best friend's finance when I was in college. After all what clues that a rape was a possibility when my best friend and her fiance had been trying to set us up for 4-5 months because they thought we would make a perfect couple.
SeanRenaud said on Mar 11, 2007....

So what everybody is saying is that it is purely bad luck that so many victims become repeat victims? That it is just a huge coincidence? That seems highly unlikely. Logically speaking.

No woman chooses to go to a club/party alone and get drunk? I'm constantly hearing stories from my younger sister in college that her friends are constantly in those types situations and that's why she doesn't party with them very often because its just a matter of time before they pass out at the wrong party.

The analogy is crap, but for the reason Silver said. Usually rape is a family member blackmailing you, little force is usually used blah blah. There is plenty wrong with it.
Zayda said on Mar 11, 2007....
So wait, a woman who goes to a party/club alone and gets drunk is to blame if she gets raped?

Is it a man's fault if he goes to a party/club alone and gets drunk and gets raped as well?

When did being drunk make it someone's fault if they got raped?

Oh, wait, and if the woman at the party/club is dressed in club clothes (provocatively), somehow that means she asking for it as well?

Tell me something, what of the 11 year old that gets molested by her best friend's father when she's at their house swimming one day and goes inside to the bathroom wearing her bikini and a towel? Was she asking to be molested because she was wearing a bikini in front of a 40 year old man?

No woman, no matter her age, is asking to be raped. Nor does she deserve it.
Ormocanon said on Mar 11, 2007....
Sean, your analogy sucks.
SeanRenaud said on Mar 11, 2007....

Does anybody who gets too drunk to know where they are and what they are doing particularly without people they can trust to protect them get what they deserve? The only sad part is that the people who make really really bad decisions (Driving while drunk) have a habit of surviving and sometimes getting away, but people who pass out drunk get a fucked up penalty.

The 11 year old, of course not. She was just unlucky. Sometimes bad things happen for no reason. And while in an ideal world nothing bad would ever happen to anybody we live in a real world where you need to take measures to protect yourself.
husbandhater said on Mar 11, 2007....

NO is NO Sean. ANd it should always be so. You do not take advantage of someone in an inhibited state,it's vile and just not right. That's like taking advantage of someone whose not all there mentally. I guess you think they should be raped too Sean?
husbandhater said on Mar 11, 2007....

I'm pretty sure the woman just going home and opening her door at night is not thinking that someone is in her house about to rape and violate her. Should she protect herself too. like I said Sean people need to respect boundaries. Some one drunk is not in the right frame of mind to make a rational decsion( Close to a handicapped person) Its just not right. What happen to morals?
anonymous said on Mar 11, 2007....

Sheer non-sense !

Sheer non-sense.!
mommyof2 said on Mar 11, 2007....

I say FUCK YOU SEAN you must be a rapist!!!!!!!!!
Zayda said on Mar 11, 2007....
Sean--You say in your OP that the stats you have read indicate that many of the rape victims in the world are multiple victims. And then you question if there is something that singles them out.

Among those statistics that you have read where there other statistics given for multiple rape victims such as socio-economic status, environment they live in, country, etc.? I'm wondering what kind of cross-reference of statistics are provided that might be comparable across women who are multiple-rape victims.

Mind you, I am not saying that women of a certain socio-economic status deserved to be raped. But, if living in a certain community/environment, there may be a higher chance that a woman will be raped multiple times.

You also ask at what point we stop pitying the victim (while still blaming the perpetrator). I don't know that we can draw a line and say "this is the point when I will stop pitying you if you have been raped multiple times". For one, rape victims generally don't want your pity. Sympathy, yes; pity no. Those are two entirely different things.
SeanRenaud said on Mar 11, 2007....

So being mentally handicapped is a choice now? Either that or some people are born drunk. Amazing how emotions and logic cannot co-exist in most minds.
SeanRenaud said on Mar 11, 2007....

@ Zayda

I don't have stats on the socio-economic, but that is worth looking into. I'm assuming your suggesting that these things might take place more often amongst the poor (like most crime) rather than there being some kind of signal that attracts predators to certain women.

My theory is that since Rape is primarily about power not about sex that there are probably similar signs these predators look for in a woman. Subtle things like the way she walk, her eye contact, something. You can usually pick out of a crowd the people you can bully. If these traits exist we need to identify them.

No they don't want pity, but they get there fair share.
Zayda said on Mar 11, 2007....
Sean--I'm not suggesting anything. I'm questioning. I would want to see statistics of a larger spectrum than just the number of times a woman has been raped.

I don't know that it's as simple as being something like women who are poorer who are more likely to be victims of rape.

Nor am I sure that it's something as simple as women who are easily imitated being more likely to be victims either, as you seem to be indicating. (i.e. Taking something from someone because they would be easy to bully.)

If/Since rape is a crime of power, wouldn't it be a bigger thrill to take from someone (woman or man) who isn't easy to bully?
SeanRenaud said on Mar 11, 2007....

But predators don't function like that. Bully's don't go out and pick on the biggest kid in school. They go for the ones that are easy victims.

Least traditional bullies do. I mean hell they often pick on children/people considerably younger or smaller than themselves.
skald said on Mar 11, 2007....
What it the matter with you.Do you honestly think that any one deserves to be raped? Would you like to be raped?
Zayda said on Mar 11, 2007....
Yes, traditionally bullies are like that.

My rapist, who was someone I knew, raped me simply because "no girl turns me down", as he told me hammered home that night to the tune of close to 300 stitches in my body. I had the gall to turn him down--in his mind--several times because I didn't jump at the chance to go on a date with him the first time he asked. And then I turned down his offer of sex several times that night on our first date and had the nerve to tell him I wouldn't be bullied into having sex with him just because he could get it from any girl he chose too.

I don't think we can paint all rapists and all bullies with the same brush though. I've seen psychological profiles on some bullies who escalate who they try to intimidate and bully because the people who are smaller/younger/easy to intimidate become too easy a target, so they up the scale, so to speak, on who they try to bully.
Zayda said on Mar 11, 2007....
After reading through all this, despite the title of the blog, I'm not convinced Sean is saying that anyone deserves to be raped. I think the title, and the OP, to some part, might be a little misleading.

Maybe I'm putting words in his mouth, so forgive me if I am Sean, but I think he's getting to the crux of his question here in some of his latter comments:

Are there certain factors that make it more likely that a woman will be a victim of rape. (Not that she deserves it, but that she will make an easier or more likely target.)

Is that what you are driving at Sean, with the drinking, the way she walks, the eye contact, etc.?

And for the record, I don't think Sean is a rapist.
22DecemberFallen said on Mar 11, 2007....
Your a fuckhead sean, I need to compose myself before i reply to this fully. Why would you ask this when people (regular contributions) have been through shit like this? I'm puzzled by you mate? KKK, black men storming meetings? Wtf? You are a bit mixed up here pal I need to work this out a bit more. Watch this space.
Nowteam said on Mar 11, 2007....

I think you already know the answer to this question. Maybe you have a personal need to push people's buttons or something....I feel it is so important for victims to get help so they do not carry themselves in a way that attracts more abuse. No one deserves to be hurt in that way. I wonder more why you ask? It seems you are trying to emotionally distance yourself from the idea that it is absolutely wrong. Why would you need to do that?
husbandhater said on Mar 11, 2007....

Heres to hoping that Sean doesn't go to jail even for a traffic ticket or he will learn where logic and emotions meet(Right up his ass hole getting pumped by a big hairy scary man). People under the influence are incapcitated(Note to Sean: See Roofies Section. Why they are used in sexual attacks?) Obviously theres some truth to this!
petitepapillon said on Mar 11, 2007....

So, I guess if I were to go out in a skimpy outfit and smile at some guy, that would mean I wanted to be rape, right?

Pfft, please. That kind of logic is the kind I am so fucking sick and tired of. And suggesting or asking such a thing can open up old wounds for many rape victims.

For fuck's sake, no woman deserves to be raped whether they were drunk, wore barely there clothes or made eye contact with a good handful of guys.

The statistics you've read may have pointed out that many rape victims are multiple ones, but does it say when they were raped? Does it say that they were asking for it by going out and trying to live their lives? These multiple victims may have been raped as a child, and then again as a teenager, and then again as an adult. Each time may have been different and due to different circumstances.

Yes, women need to take measures to protect themselves, but they shouldn't have to be restricted from having a good time. There is a reason why a lot of girls I know go out in groups, have a designated driver, watch out for each other if one of them gets too drunk, and/or have a good guy friend or two or three with them. But, at the same time, people need to respect others boundaries. No means no, no matter how you slice it. And a drunk girl is not thinking rationally and should not be taken advantage of.

For you to suggest such a thing makes my skin crawl and my stomach tie itself up in knots. I guess I deserved to be raped that fateful day in August of 2002, huh? I guess it's my fault I was raped by the same man who sexually abused me as a little girl because I put myself back into a hostile situation, huh?

Saying yes to either of those would be wrong because you don't know anything about either situations, just like you don't know and understand anything about the situations of all those multiple rape victims.

And, by the way, rape victims don't want anyone's pity. I can't speak for anyone else, but for me personally, pity makes me feel like shit, like I've done something wrong when, deep down, I know I haven't. I'd rather have your sympathy and understanding.

But, in all truth, I don't want either from you since it's quite clear to me that you don't understand at all, especially if you think things that some women do are reasons or "traits" where they are asking and wanting to be raped.
mom said on Mar 11, 2007....

Sean- what on earth has convinced you to even write about this? What about the guys who are out there that are just looking for a reason to rape a woman? Why not ask the guys who would do such a thing? I have known decent men who would never take advantage of a situation where they could screw a woman for any reason unless it was completely consensual. I have known both types. If a man is capable of raping a woman, then I doubt that what she wears or acts like has any real bearing on whether he rapes her or not. If he has that type of charactfer flaw then he would look for any reason, and he will use the reason that he feels might be able to justify his acrtions.

Easy on Sean Guys, he is a good guy that is having a hard time with this topic for what ever reason. Sean has been a part of SC for a long time. *puts an arm around Sean and kisses him on the cheek*. I do wonder why you wrestle with this so much for though. Do you see women as objects?
glitzNglam said on Mar 11, 2007....

hi sean, your title definitely caught my eye....but of course just like everyone else I'm going to agree that NO women do not deserve to be raped.

Your right, bullies usually pick on weaker kids...usually scrawny, glasses, braces, etc......but do they deserve to be picked on??? i dont think so. They can't help the way they look.

Why would any women deserve to be raped? thats just a stupid question to me. If you're talking about how a woman dresses....then in your mind how should we dress...i mean it is 2007 NOT 1845. yes some women dress provactively but that doesn't mean they deserve to be raped. They most likely feel confident about their bodies, and for a man to abuse a woman's body is fucked up in the head. Men go to strip clubs right? Do you think strippers deserve to be raped? they dress and dance sexually but they're just doin their jobs. Women dress sexy to catch a man's eye and get their attention, but not the intention of being raped. Far as drinking wise....is it not ok for us to get drunk either? females have celebrations...we have bad days...we are just like everyone else....we get drunk as hell sometimes but we don't deserve to get raped.

Women that do get raped repeatedly are very unfortunate....think about it....once a woman is raped her self-esteem hits rock bottom....it'll be hard for her to trust any man, it'll be hard for her to open up....and for them to be raped again....shit that would fuck me up big time! and i dont think i would flash my shit all over town askin to be raped.

so how does a woman deserve to be raped? its not our fault that men can't keep their dick in their pants, its not our fault that they dont have self-control or have a fucked up mind. do you have any kids? if not, i hope you have a daughter and ask yourself the same question if women deserve to be raped.
NotTheOfficeWhore said on Mar 11, 2007....
Okay, I don't usually go for these types of bullshit blogs cause I think they are done solely to get LOTS of comments and be at the top of the list of blogs, "Wow, look how popular I am!" Yeah, that need for popularity still haunts some of the more juvenile amongst us. But in this case, fuck it, I'm IN.

I don't give a rats ass if I'm drunk, naked, have already blown the guy and he's at the point of entry, if I say NO, I fucking mean NO. End of story. I don't care if I've promised him the wildest sex he's ever even pondered. I don't care if he's got me tied to the bed spread eagled for all the world to see with a video camera set up to record the fun. It DOES NOT FUCKING MATTER ONE IOTA what has led up to that very moment. When the word NO comes out of my mouth, that's it. Go jerk off and finish your business that way.

Are men so barbaric that they are simply UNABLE to control themselves? They are physically and emotionally unable to understand English at that point? They cannot understand that something has changed, something has shifted?

And let's take it a step further. What if I'm the biggest dick tease on the planet? I intentionally seduced you. I dressed like the town whore. I came on to you. I invited you to my home, dragged you into my bedroom, stripped off my clothes and yours, and licked you from head to toe, then said no. Guess what buddy? NO FUCKING MEANS NO!!! End of story. Each and every time, end of story. There are no IFS, ANDS or BUTS here.

But you know what, in many cases that's not what happens. Sometimes a woman gets jumped by some stranger. Sometimes a woman gets abused as a child. Sometimes a woman goes on a first date and gets a simply LOVELY surprise. Sometimes you get stalked by some freak who's obessed. There are so many different manifestations of male rationalizations for raping a woman that I could go on here for 3 hours, so it's impossible to understand the WHY of the matter. The only thing anyone need understand is that it is NEVER acceptable to do it. EVER.

Are you getting this? Is it making sense yet? No one asks for it. Not the virgin, not the town whore, not even the hooker who does it for a living who says no at the last minute. NO one. We all have a right to NOT be penetrated against our will.

The damage it does is everlasting. It never goes away. Sure, you learn to live with it. You go on with your day. You learn to sleep at night. You learn to go back out with your friends and go on dates again. But it never truly leaves you. Never. It robs something from you that you can never get back. A sense of safety. Of true safety. If you have not experienced this, you'll never know. And I pray in my heart of hearts that most of you haven't. For those that have, you know what I mean. To this day I will NOT go anywhere without my own car. Won't do it. Will never again be stuck without an escape mechanism. I also carry a lethal dose of valium in my purse so if I get stuck again with some fucker who thinks he owns me that I can at least chew them up real quick and pray for it to end that way. What kind of way to live is that? It's the way I have to because of the experiences I've had in my life. Because some fuckers thought it'd be fun. FUN. Yeah, great, what a fucking blast. So, while I go about my life like a "normal" person, I carry it with me. Every day.

SeanRenaud, it was a poorly worded post, and unfortunatley, several of your responders should be strung up by their balls and whipped for what they had to say. I find it amazing that anyone thinks it's their right to do what they want to someone else because they feel "lead on". Who gives a shit if you feel lead on? Your ego is far less valuable than the life long damage you do when you decide to simply take what you feel is, for whatever reason, "owed" to you. No one owes you a damn thing, especially the most intimate part of them. It's a gift to give, not a TV to be looted.
husbandhater said on Mar 11, 2007....

And with that so elequently spoken there is nothing to be added or that could be added that could top those words! Sean enjoy your reading. NTOW has some pearls of wisdom for you there. You Go NTOW! I Loves them Apples!
momsrock said on Mar 11, 2007....

Ok, when I read this post I automatically assumed you were asking if there are certain characteristics that rape victims have in common...or something that makes them an easier target. And I was going to say you might look like an easier target because of the emotional toll the first rape causes. It took a long time before I actually made eye contact or looked around my surroundings...I always walked with my head down... and that is one of the first things that are discussed in most self defense classes... so that would be my answer.

Or am I missing something?
missunderstood1162 said on Mar 11, 2007....
awww man.....NTOW.......I'm sorry sweetie. damn.
anonymous said on Mar 11, 2007....
I know where you got this. It wasn't cute when ramonathompson did it on Lit, and it's not cute now.
MissMimi said on Mar 11, 2007....
I have nothing to add that is more eloquent than the words of NTOW. Very powerful.
missunderstood1162 said on Mar 11, 2007....
I totally agree mimi. hugs ntow!
sidhe said on Mar 11, 2007....

Well Sean, I am a multiple victim. The first time I was 9 and so completely innocent I had no idea what to even call what was done to me. Did I ask for it then? Then again years later by a coworker while I was at work. Did I ask for it then? Then only a few years ago by a close friend who I had trusted and had no sexual relationship with at all. Did I ask for it then? No alcohol any of the times. No slinky clothing. No seduction. So, how was I asking for it? How was I indicating that I wanted it? If you can really answer that perhaps I won't consign you to the pond scum portion of things.

Really, all your questions and responses seem to be saying about you is not that you really want to know the answer. You just want to either

A. justify raping someone yourself or

B. stir things up just to make people upset.

Both things are pretty damn aweful and intellectually dishonest.

So Sean, are you a rapist who thinks the girl deserved it?
SeanRenaud said on Mar 11, 2007....

Wait wait wait. Who the fuck called me a racist? You wanna call me bigot, sexist, rapist, stupid fucked. All of that is justified under these circumstances but racist, the hell is that about?
NotTheOfficeWhore said on Mar 11, 2007....
After all that's been said, that's the only comment you have to make SeanRenaud?
SeanRenaud said on Mar 11, 2007....

At the moment yeah it is.
CamDaMan20 said on Mar 11, 2007....
Sean, you are invited to New York any time...we might be damned Yankees, but we have very strong trees up here, not for you to be jumping out of mind you, but to string the likes of those who rape high amongst them.

While in school our professor insisted there was but three mind processes...

1) think it.
2) say it.
3) do it.

3 strikes sean, and with me, 2 is enough. NO MEANS FUCKING NO
copsunited said on Mar 11, 2007....

No woman deserves to be raped. No woman deserves to be

beaten.

No human being ever deserves to be beat. Wow..now having said

that..let me justify...

It is against all standards of human behavior to beat someone. It

is the most degrading experience a human can experience EXCEPT

rape. Rape it the worst because the wounds that don't show..NEVER heal.

I have been tempted many times to beat someone senseless..but cannot

and would not. Now..that does not mean I have not put someone down

and put them down HARD..but I did not use a fist and never beat anyone.

I will take part of that back. I did hit a child molester with my fist and I paid a

dear price for it..and something I'll never forget.

Have I been in bar brawls..yup..got to admit..but it was mutual combat and

really a good time. We all were laughing our asses off. Just goes to show

how smart some men are..yes??

Rape should be punishable by castration. Nothing less.

JD
NotTheOfficeWhore said on Mar 11, 2007....
Interesting how when confronted by things other than "racist pig" you have nothing to say. Is it intellectualism that frightens you? Afraid you can't keep up when the topic goes beyond, "Hey, is it cool to rape chicks? Don't they really deserve it?" I'm done. Not worth my time anymore.
CamDaMan20 said on Mar 11, 2007....
Right on Cops....except I am not above beating such a scum bag with fist, or stomping a tree jumper so he never jumps again.

What in hell made you even consider writing something like this in a public blog and thereby planting seeds into some very sick minds out there Sean?

Jail is too good even if the piece of shit gets his ass handed to him while incarcerated, its not enough, castration ...hell yes, but why spend the money on a trial when a good Oak tree, a 2 inch flat washer, a 16 spike and a loyal eastwing can allow the piece of shit to be nailed to said tree and allow him to castrate himself, or stand there and die like the coward all rapist are from the onset.

Why waste public funds.
kelly said on Mar 11, 2007....
A tree jumper?
sidhe said on Mar 12, 2007....

Well, I don't know about racist, but you are definitely misogynist Sean. Every topic you posted about that I've seen screams that from the rooftops.

You're going to be a sad, lonely man.
SeanRenaud said on Mar 12, 2007....

Well considering the number of posts I have sidhe the fact that you've only read my misogynist posts shows what kinds of things catch your interest.
sidhe said on Mar 12, 2007....
I'm also new here. The posts that come up under your name are all the misogynist ones. Which means all your recent ones are like this and make me not want to delve further back.
SeanRenaud said on Mar 12, 2007....

C'mon not even all of the stuff I have on the front page over the last 24 hours has been woman hating. You just like most people gravitate towards shit that pisses you off.
purewil said on Mar 12, 2007....

There is no woman in the world that deserves to be raped, although I did hear some classmates talking about girls having fantasies of rape ( never really thought that was possible). But on the same page women shouldn't just go out and make themselves vulnerable. Every woman and man should understand that even though its not right, people do it. So women should take responsiblity in trying to protect themselves the best way they can and yes that may mean laying off the vodka until you get home.
silverwhisper said on Mar 12, 2007....
sean, did zayda sum up what you were really after here?

sidhe: you don't know sean. would you like to be judged based solely on the strength of what you say to others online over a short time period?

no, i didn't think so.

ed
huckfinandfriends said on Mar 12, 2007....
What i cant understand is why so many people are replying to such a question by this person. The man is an idiot , plain and simple, stop giving him your time of day.
anonymous said on Mar 12, 2007....

Yes Zayda pretty much nailed it exactly. If there are behaviors that single out these people knowing what they are can possibly prevent this from occuring.

@Huck. You don't want to give me the time of day but you subscribed to me? The fuck kind of sense does that make?
silverwhisper said on Mar 12, 2007....
um...sean, is that you making the anonymous comment?

ed
SeanRenaud said on Mar 12, 2007....

LoL, yeah it is. I use tab alot, must have clicked that silly button.
silverwhisper said on Mar 12, 2007....
i use tabs too and i've done the same. :>

in that case: i think it's perfectly reasonable to ask those questions and frankly, i think it's a sad thing that you're being vilified so.

ed
sidhe said on Mar 12, 2007....

You have a point SW. I apologize Sean. I am judging you based on a handful of posts.
SeanRenaud said on Mar 12, 2007....

Apology accepted.

I did carefully choose the words to piss people off though. I often do that, like my Niggaz need reparations post. For me, the formula of say something offensive, then follow with inteligent debate gets lots and lots of posts.
missunderstood1162 said on Mar 12, 2007....
Well Sean....After all of that I am here to say ...I didn't bite. :)

But to the ones who bared their souls.....to those sweet souls...

I do send sympathy to those that have unfortunately experienced being abused and raped even once if not repeatedly. I was molested as a little girl and then later a sex offender assualted me as an adult. Do I think the two things are connected? Absolutely not. ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY NOT. I even debated whether to be one more person playing into this list of agonizingly all too real details. These posts are basically begging you to stop.

Do I think this is a risky thing to talk about on a forum such as this? Oh yes. Totally. But to each his or her own. When feelings are involved and the liklihood of several people having experienced some if not alot of what the topic is.....I wouldn't have risked it out of common courtesy for others. But it's your blog and it's your right. For me, once I know I have upset another, especially on a topic such as this....I would cease and desist. If it had ever been forced upon you.....inside of you...maybe you'd get that.

Other than that. Some of your posts have been enjoyable.
mom said on Mar 12, 2007....
Sean- I never thought you were bad, only cause I know you. Some subjects will draw in a firing crowd, as you know. :) Glad that you have been accepted back into society as my sweet lovable Sean. AKA sexy pants.
sidhe said on Mar 12, 2007....

Um Sean, so harming those who've been raped multiple times with your subject is ok cause it gets you lots of posts?

You may never have been raped but I tell you that saying things the way you have here HURTS like hell for those of us who have been.

If the only reason you've done that is to increase the post count here then I'm not impressed.
Zayda said on Mar 12, 2007....
Sidhe--Sean's words only have the power that you give them by the way you or anyone else who has been raped once or multiple times chooses to react to those words.

He's asking questions; he's trying to figure something out. Yes, maybe his words are prone to make people angry, but we give those words the power to make us angry; we give them the power to hurt us.

Don't paint with such broad strokes. Sean's words didn't hurt me and I've been molested. The 11 year old girl I referred to in one of my earlier comments; that girl was me. And 7 and a half years later when I was a sophmore in college, I was raped, violently to the point where I had to make the choice to either lie there and die or to find a way to live.

Sean's words only have the power that you give them, that you invest in them. And you have to choose how to react to them and how they will affect you. I'm at a far different place than you are though when it comes to dealing with what happened to me. I'm in a different place than many people are. Some survivor's don't reach this place; I know this as well. I've seen it with my friends, friends like NTOW, who won't go anywhere without their own cars or won't go certain places alone. How we process this experience is different, just like the experience itself is different for everyone.

Sean's questions--well the ones that are behind the question is his title are the same questions that other people ask, even rape survivors.

What made me stand out as an easy target, if anything?

What could I have done, if anything, to have prevented this and what can I do to keep it from happening to me again?

What can I do to keep it from happening to the people I love--my friends, my sisters, my daughters?

I don't think these have to be questions of blaming the victim because we have to move past blaming ourselves. And no matter how many times people tell you "it's not your fault", deep down somewhere, especially at the beginnings of the recovery/survival process, you do wonder if it was your fault.

Granted, his OP could have been worded better, but the questions of what makes one woman an easier target (even multiple times) is one that needs to be answered.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a cookie cutter answer to that question.
sidhe said on Mar 12, 2007....

I was responding to his post to me where he stated that he did it this way to get more posts. If he did it because he really wants to learn that's one thing and I can certainly understand that.

If he posted in this manner just to get more responses then it was calculated to hurt us for his benefit.

"I did carefully choose the words to piss people off though. I often do that, like my Niggaz need reparations post. For me, the formula of say something offensive, then follow with inteligent debate gets lots and lots of posts."

So, just going off of what he himself said because I don't know him.
Zayda said on Mar 12, 2007....
Okay, I see that point.

I suppose to be critical here a bit, Sean, you might want to recognize that when you start with words chosen to piss people off, you won't always have intelligent debate that follows but reactionary responses based on hurt and anger.

So, if it's intelligent debate he's really looking for, then a better starting approach is probably in order since many people can't look past those words.

However, even if he's choosing words to piss people off, you as the reader still have to give the words that power to anger you or to hurt you. You can choose to not be reactionary but to respond with the intelligent debate he is looking for. And I really do believe it's the intelligent debate he is looking for more than X number of posts.
sidhe said on Mar 12, 2007....

I'll trust you on that Zayda and pretend like this is intelligent debate then.

I don't believe women or men ever deserve to be raped. I do believe that some put themselves at risk though.

Some lifestyles make that risk more as well. I don't think it's because they want or deserve to be raped. I think they either have no choice or aren't thinking of that consequence.
Zayda said on Mar 12, 2007....
I'm not sure, at this point, that this blog entry is conducive to an intelligent debate simply because of the way it began.

I don't believe anyone deserves to be raped either. I do believe I said that in an earlier comment

And that's just it--what you said, some lifestyle, some choices can put us more at risk. But just because the lifestyle or the choice might put us more at risk doesn't mean we want or deserve to be raped.

I think too often we don't think of consequences, especially when we are younger. There's always that "it can't happen to me" syndrome.

Still, "no, means, no".

Sometimes, women don't even get the chance to say no; even that doesn't mean they want to be raped or deserve to be raped.
sidhe said on Mar 12, 2007....

It's like saying that because someone decides to drive a car they deserve to be in a horrible accident.

If a woman decides to drink at a bar like any man she doesn't deserve rape any more than you deserve an accident for driving a car.
silverwhisper said on Mar 13, 2007....

sean quoth
i did carefully choose the words to piss people off though. i often do that, like my niggaz need reparations post. for me, the formula of say something offensive, then follow with inteligent debate gets lots and lots of posts.

frankly, i think that's a mind-bogglingly stupid strategy. it dilutes your signal: noise ratio and just wastes people's time. why not skip the attention whoring and get right to the heart of the matter?

ed
Ormocanon said on Mar 13, 2007....

Looks like you deliberately wanted to provoke a reaction...well, you sure got the flak you asked for, Sean.
SeanRenaud said on Mar 13, 2007....

I don't mind the flak. I've deleted a grand total of one response of this post, and it was just noise. You have to piss people off to get them thinking. This single blog has increased my readership and thus the reach of my voice by seven readers. It has gotten almost twice as many responses as my next most popular post. It served its purpose well.

@Sidhe: No its like saying that if somebody has been in multiple car accidents maybe they need to observe their driving habits.

The short answer though i that I don't believe in random. I don't believe that the reason there are so many repeat victims is because "God hates them" or simple bad luck. That doesn't make sense.
SeanRenaud said on Mar 13, 2007....

I don't mind the flak. I've deleted a grand total of one response of this post, and it was just noise. You have to piss people off to get them thinking. This single blog has increased my readership and thus the reach of my voice by seven readers. It has gotten almost twice as many responses as my next most popular post. It served its purpose well.

@Sidhe: No its like saying that if somebody has been in multiple car accidents maybe they need to observe their driving habits.

The short answer though i that I don't believe in random. I don't believe that the reason there are so many repeat victims is because "God hates them" or simple bad luck. That doesn't make sense.
SeanRenaud said on Mar 13, 2007....

I don't mind the flak. I've deleted a grand total of one response of this post, and it was just noise. You have to piss people off to get them thinking. This single blog has increased my readership and thus the reach of my voice by seven readers. It has gotten almost twice as many responses as my next most popular post. It served its purpose well.

@Sidhe: No its like saying that if somebody has been in multiple car accidents maybe they need to observe their driving habits.

The short answer though i that I don't believe in random. I don't believe that the reason there are so many repeat victims is because "God hates them" or simple bad luck. That doesn't make sense.
silverwhisper said on Mar 13, 2007....

sean quoth:
you have to piss people off to get them thinking

that's demonstrably untrue if you look at any number of other soulcasters: faithful disciple, truthsayer, bloc or others.

ed
SeanRenaud said on Mar 13, 2007....

I'll give you two for three. If you think bloc doesn't piss people off by constantly attacking the president and US policies I would have to call you on that.
silverwhisper said on Mar 13, 2007....
i disagree b/c the only person who is actually pissed off by bloc blogging about torture is alienated and let's face it, he isn't exactly interested in investigating the allegations in good faith.

ed
sidhe said on Mar 13, 2007....

Well Sean, I don't believe God hates certain people and therefore makes them multiple rape victims. But as I've said, I'm a multiple rape victim. I don't drink, don't hang out in bars and don't wear skanky clothes.

I would listen if you tell me how I'm asking for it in your view. Answer my question now that I've answered yours.
SeanRenaud said on Mar 13, 2007....

I think Alien isn't the only one but rather the only one who voices it. Though you make a solid point.

@sidhe: I don't proclaim to know the signs that make a victim stand out. Considering that MOST rape happens between family and close friends rather than random Joe. Despite the horror stories your chances of getting raped by a complete stranger at random is rather low. Considering that there have got to be personality traits or behavior patterns that separate you from your sister, daughter, mother. Maybe you don't look people in the eye. Maybe your easily pressured into things. Maybe your the kind of person who always blames themselves and never "snitches" on anybody.

I wish I had the answer to just publish a list of behaviors to change to drastically reduce your chances of becoming a victim but I don't. I do know that baring the option that Karma is real and this is your punishment for being Hitler in a former life, or that God hates you that most of these women must have some kind of similar trait.

Maybe you were just unlucky. I mean there are people who win the lottery, get struck by lightning or become world famous for awful singing on American Idol. So I'm not against the idea that maybe it really is random bad luck, seven times in a row. I just find that improbable.
sidhe said on Mar 13, 2007....

Well Sean, I'm actually a rather confident person who looks people in the eye and isn't generally afraid.

The one thing that ties all the rapes together is that I'm attractive with large breasts and a small waist. From the first to the last, that's the only reason they can give.

So, how does one fix that so as not to be deserving of rape? Wear baggy clothes? Gain weight?

The problem with your question here is that you want to know what the victim does to make it probable to be raped.

The problem isn't the victim. It's the perpetrator who is trying to justify their behavior. I think that needs more addressing than how the victim can hide or limit or repress themselves to avoid being raped. So, to turn this question around, what justifies the rapist in commiting rape? That's the real question you're asking it seems.
SeanRenaud said on Mar 13, 2007....

Nothing justifies commiting rape, or any other criminal activity for that matter. I'm glad your hot.

The problem is of course with the perpetrator but like muggings or beatings there are clearly defined measures an individual can take to lessen their chances of being in a bad situation.

Like I said these things might not apply to you as an individual. Some people hit the nega-lottery.

The bottom line is you want to solve a problem, you first have to understand the problem. Which apparently we are making great strides in as rape is WAY down in the last 20 years. We'll never eliminate this entirely but more progress can be made
sidhe said on Mar 13, 2007....

Which makes my question reasonable. What does a rapist use to justify his actions?

Once you know that you can perhaps help prevent it.
SeanRenaud said on Mar 13, 2007....

I didn't say your question wasn't reasonable.

I would assume that many of them feel that it is necessary to assert their dominance. Assuming its true that rape is about power not sex it would (IMO) be a reasonable assumption to assume that these guys must also fit into something similar to the classic bully mold. Might makes right, etc etc.
sidhe said on Mar 13, 2007....

That's no answer.

How do we make ourselves not vulnerable to rape then? If it's just about dominance then getting drunk at the bar or wearing revealing clothing won't make you more or less viable as a rape victim.

You question was: I ask this because from the stats I've read many of the rape victims in the world are multiple time victims. Is there something that singles them out? More than that is there a point where you have to stop pitying the victim (while still blaming the perpetuator) case in point if a black man storrms a KKK meeting screaming Black Power I can't pity him when he gets beat down. So what are other logical opinions?"

And I'm asking if it's true that multiple rape victims are bringing it on themselves, how are they doing it? What is justifying this rape in the rapists mind?

If you're not going to really think about it and give me a real answer, why did you ask the question?
SeanRenaud said on Mar 13, 2007....

I didn't say getting drunk or wearing a shot skirt made you more or less viable as a victim did I? You just quoted me, where did I say that? I said that there must be a common thread that singles these women out above and beyond all others around them. I don't know how they are bringing it on themselves.

As for the justification in the rapists mind I don't even know that they do justify it. We are discussing them like they are people not predators and as such common rationale may not apply. How does a serial killer justify his actions? He doesn't, he's sick. Something is criss crossed in his mind.
sidhe said on Mar 13, 2007....

Actually you said "So what everybody is saying is that it is purely bad luck that so many victims become repeat victims? That it is just a huge coincidence? That seems highly unlikely. Logically speaking.

No woman chooses to go to a club/party alone and get drunk? I'm constantly hearing stories from my younger sister in college that her friends are constantly in those types situations and that's why she doesn't party with them very often because its just a matter of time before they pass out at the wrong party."

So yes, you are intimating there that getting drunk makes you a viable victim for rape. Your own words. No backtracking now hun.

For stranger rapists, according to the rape therapy I went through after the second rape: They look for women with a ponytale or hair they can grab. They look for a woman who walks tentatively because she may be more easily intimidated. They look for young girls or boys who are left alone or unaccompanied in their front yards or at street corners. They look for women who walk at night or in the dark because they're struggles are harder to see.

For rapists who rape women they know, they rely on the relationship to shut the woman up, or threats. They often don't care if she's attractive at all or sensual or dressed slutty. They look for opportunity, time alone with the woman they think they can get away with hurting. That's the important thing there, the one they can get away with hurting. Sometimes that's the drunk one, or the alone one or the small one.

The only way to defend against those rapists is to never be alone with a family member or friend because you don't know who they are. That's not possible so your question has little value here.
SeanRenaud said on Mar 13, 2007....

So maybe giving these women the confidence to speak up and the legal backing to get these guys put away wouldn't help. Right there you mentioned that there is a walk that attracts them. So right there telling girls to keep their heads up and act like they are important might lessen the chances of them being victims.

Of course never being alone isn't a viable strategy. Though to be honest I have a hard time believing people don't know which one is the creepy uncle, but I'm sure its more complex than that.

Ok, so I did say that people put themselves in bad sitations. It's true they do. Not enough emphasis is put on teaching women to defend themselves and not to allow these kinds of things to happen and not to put themselves in unsafe situations. To even suggest that they could have avoided certain negative situations angers people.

Getting so drunk you pass out, with strangers does make you a viable victim. I'm pretty sure that the jury's been in on that for some time now. Its just common sense that you can't trust strangers. It also makes you a viable victim for burglary, embaressing photographs and maybe drowning in your own vomit.
rmuxagirl said on Mar 14, 2007....
I highly take offense to the thought that anyone deserves being raped. I have been raped and there was nothing and I mean NOTHING that made it right or that i "deserved" it and neither does any other woman who has been raped.

It takes away everything in you. I felt like I was nothing....I was nothing. Someone going into a KKK meeting and shouting Black Power is completely different then someone forcing themself on you and you can't fight back. I was slammed into the door, my fighting back made him more "excited"

I have always walked with my head held high and with confidence. The guy's reasoning was I wouldn't have sex with him willingingly. And even if a person gets drunk and passed out does not give anyone an excuse do violate them in that way.

My question to you Sean...is have YOU been raped?
CamDaMan20 said on Mar 14, 2007....
Sean raped?...I doubt it...brain fucked, most assuredly.
SOLDIERCIPSWIFE said on Mar 15, 2007....
Im heartbroken at the number of people on soulcast who have been violated in this way. Nobody deserves this...nobody.
biglove said on Mar 21, 2007....

WOW!!! Sean, your goal to obtain the ultimate "shock value" (and you know that is why you worded this the way you did) has been successfull...Bravo!!! I don't believe for one minute that you think women deserve to be raped, because the real statistics make it impossible for you to not know, at the very least, one person close to you that has been raped....probably even a family member. I don't know where you found your statistics (maybe you made them up) but I'm sure there was more information than you chose to give out. I don't have numbers with me, but I think it is safe to say that 90% of rapes are never even reported...and there are women that file false reports, but that is a very small percentage. Most rapes are committed by someone you know, and here is a question for you...the multiple rape statistics that you got, are they multiple rapes at different times, places and people...or are they gang rapes, or domestic rapes? I don't think there are really very many women out there just walking down the street getting snatched every other day and raped by complete strangers...I think your information is flawed.

Your analogy is off....a rape is more like a robbery, but even if you catch the theft the merchandise he stole can never be returned. If I walk into a store and I see something displayed on a shelf and I just must have this....I can't think of anything else, I want this item so badly and it is just sitting there on the this shelf...not boxed in...not locked...just in a room with a dozen more just like it....but this is the one I want, the one I must have....is it OK for me to take it? Now mind you, it's sitting there, out in the open, unprotected in this store...do I have the right to take it? That should be the question...just because you want something doesn't give you the right to take it. When a woman is raped something she has worked hard for is taken away, her dignity, her confidence, her trust...her secret self.

So...Sean....drunk or not...dressed trashy or professional....flirty or shy....does a woman really ask to be raped? Even if she is out there advertising her merchandise, does someone have the right to steal it from her?
SeanRenaud said on Mar 21, 2007....

First, damn right it worked. Seeing how the stats are 1 in 4 if I remember right the idea that 90% are never reported terrifies the fuck out of me. That would be virtually every woman. Of course I suppose if every girl who ever felt dirty after wards or was some level of drunk when she consented counts its probably accurate.
I know its not gang rapes as that seems to be labeled on its own, it is repeat. Though with family members that doesn't, not make sense. You have a long relationship with your family which leads to years of abuse if not reported/believed.

I like the anology.

In answer to your question, uh yes and no. No because nobody ever deserves to be wronged. But to use your analogy if a man is walking down the street, drunk with a fistful of Benjamins that he keeps flaunting somebody is going to snatch atleast one, and few people are going to pity him.
biglove said on Mar 22, 2007....

Well, when I said "advertising her merchandise" I didn't mean it in a derogatory way. When the weeknend comes people go out, they have had a hard week and want to unwind so they go to the bars. Most of the people in the bars are single and looking to find someone (this is men and women). Besides work or friends and family, the options on meeting people are limited to the grocery stores (yeah right), weddings, the bars and the internet. So, most single women are getting dressed up..showing off their best assests...and drinking up...because it helps get rid of their nerves and makes them easier to approach. When you are at the bar you want to be noticed, because maybe Mr. Right is in the room...so in a sense you are "advertising your merchandise" in hopes of finding the right buyer. It's not the same as some drunk ass walking around with a bunch of money and not expecting to get robbed. Car dealers have hundreds on cars on a lot...enticing the buyer...but you can't just go steal one because it's out there.

And why is it ok for a guy to get drunk but not a woman? You make it sound like if the woman hadn't been drunk she wouldn't have gotten raped....women should be able to party just as much as men...they should be allowed to sleep around just like men do....they should be able to be as filthy and dirty as any man...and still be able to say NO!!! It's a choice...if I like you then I'll fuck you and if I don't they back the fuck off...plain and simple. There is no excuse for Rape, no matter how questionable the victoms character.

As for multiple rapes...that is kind of a mystery. I don't really know how many women are victoms of multiple...non-related rapes. But it could very well be that the woman has lost all hope and dignity from pass assaults, that it has become a fact of life to her and she no longer protects herself, or even bothers to look for the signs that danger is around her. I don't know, but I don't believe she is asking for it... or purposely looking for it...my guess is that she is numb. True rape victoms never ask for anyone's pitty and usually it is a very private matter...because when trying to get justice for this crime your life becomes an open book and that is why many rapes are not reported.

Bottom line is this...it's not a woman's behavior or appearance that causes a rape...it's the lake of conscience in the rapist.
SeanRenaud said on Mar 22, 2007....

I've been over this ad nasuem. Its not ok for anybody to put themselves in a bad situation, guys included.

Since I'm tired of this particular loop lets try a new one. Your familar with Dateline yes? What is your opinion on statutory rape when the girl obviously pursued it?
biglove said on Mar 22, 2007....
I don't like that whole stautory rape shit. If she is 16 or older and is wanting a relationship with an older guy then it is not rape. Parents who don't like their daughters boyfriends play this card a little to much and it pisses me off....maybe if they actually did some parenting earlier in life their daughter wouldn't be looking for romance and fatherly guidence rolled into one. Now I do think that if a 35yr old and up guy who is pursuing a "relationship" with a 9th grader...what kind of fucking loser is he? What could you possibly have in common with a 15yr old?...But it happens and as long as it is something she wants and she hasn't been hurt...in my opinion...it's not a crime.
frontanack said on Mar 23, 2007....
married or not. asked for or not. No is no. Rape is wrong. and glorifying the subject is wrong. using it for gain is wrong. 8 out or 10. not including marital situations. I don't care if you are married,,, if the woman says no at any given moment, then the answer is no, and the man has not right. period.
anonymous said on Mar 29, 2007....
For SeanRenaud http://www.fstdt.com/comments.asp?id=22704
silverwhisper said on Mar 29, 2007....
except, anonymous, sean's not at all like a fundie, as even the most casual reading of his other blog entries would reveal.

ed
SeanRenaud said on Mar 29, 2007....
Wow, I'm a fundamentalist now! Damn, I cover a lot of ground these days. I really need to get around to blocking cowards. Still can't help but be a little flattered that people take the time to post my stuff on other blogs. I wonder if I can sue for unlawful reposting of my intelectual property. . .
Dunedin said on Apr 01, 2007....

In my town Ms. F wore a see-through top and mini-skirt to a seedy bar. She was raped.

When I discussed the issue with acquaintances, I was unsympathetic. I said a woman who wears a see-through in public, particularly to a bar or some such venue where low-quality men frequent, deserves abuse. She's not asking for it in words, yet it is but invitation to the swilling dross inclined to see it as such. You've heard that argument before, but no one addresses the human nature underlying.

She deserves it in the way that a man who wears a suit of beef into a lion cage deserves to be eaten. For a man to make this choice he must be either ignorant of the ways of the world or think he is exempt from those ways. Either way he is a fool, and life treats fools harshly. So it is with a woman who wears a see-through top to a bar.

The more a woman acts like a sex object, common experience tells you, the more she will be treated as one. It doesn't mean every man will impose himself on her. Many are repulsed by brazenness. Yet she will be more likely to become a receptacle of lengthy abuse. We can say that men shouldn't abuse or rape, but what we think should be or shouldn't be is irrelevant in this situation unless we are foolish enough to believe we can alter human nature. What's important here is the way things are. Any woman with sense knows, intuitively if not analytically, that in any population some men will be of the lowest quality or losers in some way or inferior to her and will seek to take from her what they can't acquire through guile or romance.

A see-through top is designed to provoke a licentious response. Ms. F knew this on some level and wore the garment out of insolence. A violent reaction was in order from disgruntled men, the weak and unsuccessful and rejected ones whose masculinity is forever suppressed save during the occasional ravaging paroxysm. Her lack of foresight and good sense, her disrespect for human nature and disregard of consequences means she was the dumb loser who showed smart women how not to behave.

We could hope that the abuse has taught her better, yet she's likely a poor student. As Sean has pointed out, many rape victims are multiple-rape victims. Some are raped by family members and friends and are likely not striving to appear sexually provocative. This comment does not apply to those types. This comment is for the Ms. F's who continue to dress and act lewd.

It's inaccurate to say that I'm glad Ms. F was raped or that I wanted it to happen. But I believe that those who wallow in depravity deserve their unsavory rewards. It's the natural order of things.

Yet part of depravity is cultural. If we lived in Tahiti in 1500, it would be fine for Ms. F to walk in public bare-breasted. Also in this savage garden no one would've thought twice if someone raped her.

I believe that rapists should be castrated or killed but know that they will always exist everywhere.

I anticipate disgust from roving uteruses, male or female. But being so easily disgusted means only that one has a weak stomach. Instead of providing an overemotional response, please think about the issue. And please none of the simplistic "No one should ever be violated." Utopian comments are as useless as the good intentions that pave the road to proverbial hell.

If a woman in a see-through enters a seedy bar in your town, how would you expect her to be treated?

If you believe she deserves no abuse, what then does she deserve?

If you think she might be raped but doesn't deserve it, how may society realistically change to make it safe for women to wear see-through tops in public?
silverwhisper said on Apr 01, 2007....
mohamed: rape is not sex.

ed
mom said on Apr 01, 2007....
No it isn't, it is a violation and violent crime. It is away that a man can humiliate and control her.
Dunedin said on Apr 01, 2007....

@sw and mom: Interesting. I haven't considered that others might say rape is not sex. I don't quite understand. I thought rape was a violation and a violent crime, often used to humiliate and control, that takes the form of sex. There are many ways to violate and humiliate another that exclude sex. The sex makes it rape.
Zayda said on Apr 01, 2007....
But rape isn't about the sex for the rapist. It's about the domination, the control, the violation, the control. It's not about the act of sex through which the rape is perpetrated.
SeanRenaud said on Apr 01, 2007....

Honestly while I think that rape probably is about sex despite what experts think, honestly looking at male female relation might not be the best way to study it. I'd actually suggest studying male male relations, particularly in jail.

If sex is indeed about power as the experts claim then certain patterns should be evident. If its about sex then different patterns should be prevailent. I mean unless sex and power are more closely related than we think then the reasons and patterns should differ.
mom said on Apr 02, 2007....
Sean- It is difficult to explain this. It is getting to be pretty common that men will rape other men. Think about you being held down by one or more men and having the others sodomize you. It would be humiliating because for one, when sex happens between two consenting adults, they are both in the frame of mind for it to be exciting. Men go for this way to hurt a woman because he knows this would be the most humiliating. He isn't in the frame of mind that a man might be in for lovemaking, only to do what he can to cause the most damage. Now some men like to humiliate that way while others enjoy just murdering or torturing for their sick minds. So it isn't about sex necessarily. Does this make sense?
mom said on Apr 02, 2007....

This person assaults because he's motivated by anger and he's getting even with women for real or imagined wrongs. He has almost no fantasy. He simply strikes. or this could be a reason:

He's a sexual sadist. He's punishing women because he believes them to be evil and powerful, so he's trying to take away that power. He has deep and complex fantasies.
Dunedin said on Apr 02, 2007....

@Zayda and SR:

I agree with SR that rape probably is about sex. It's probably about the male directive—pursue and obtain. Probably about frustration, the intense unrequited longing to be close to someone or the types of women he could not get through non-forceful means, hatred of her for being beyond his means, the nagging urge to get off that's been itching for three months, the feel of a warm body. To this loser, a woman wearing a see-through to a bar is another slap. Maybe rape is ultimately about control, but I think it's glossing the issue to say it's only about that.

I too had thought of jail relations. I used to be a reporter. I interviewed Latino ex-cons for several gang stories. Some were candid. They said it was about the ghost of intimacy. It's not truly intimate, it's not two people giving themselves to one another. But when you feel the other person's warmth, when you are that close together you close your eyes and imagine the beautiful woman who has submitted herself to you. This is the warmth you've been longing for. And his gagged and muffled shouts of pain are really her cries of pleasure.

Surely not all rape is like this, but I wouldn't be suprised if a good deal of it is.
Dunedin said on Apr 02, 2007....

@Mom

Not necessarily about sex. I agree. For some rapists the sex is probably irrelevant. But I think the majority of rapists are not as extreme as you're implying by grouping them with people who get kicks from torturing and murdering. While some rapists do set out to humiliate the victim, most probably don't. Humiliation is often a side-effect. As I've said, rapists should be castrated or killed, yet I don't think most are as sinister as it sounds like you're saying.
silverwhisper said on Apr 02, 2007....
mohamed: by placing the blame on the victim you are saying that men are unable to control themselves, little better than animals. and i think that's utter bullshit.

ed
Dunedin said on Apr 02, 2007....

Notice that I do not put the blame on the victim in most rape situations. Only the ones where women act as if to flaunt their immunity from the tendencies of life (as described above).

And even in those cases, the man still gets the brunt of blame. He's eunuched or snuffed. He's a noxious element to society and should be removed. But then others pop up.

It sounds like you're saying that I'm grouping all men together. I'm not. Most men will never rape. But some men are so frustrated by life that they no longer wish to control themselves. They are broken. They are ineffectual. Some are born ineffectual. Whatever the reason, some men don't control themselves. That fact will always exist. What I've said is that a woman with common sense knows that rape is everywhere, knows that predators lurk and will not provoke them unduly.
silverwhisper said on Apr 02, 2007....
fine, so even if you put all those qualifiers on top of it, you're still just blaming the victim. did it ever occur to you that maybe--just maybe--such men are still responsible for their terrible actions? are you arguing that such men are mentally incompetent, perhaps?

ed
Dunedin said on Apr 02, 2007....

It sounds like you think I've considered this issue only in a cursory manner. I don't see whence you draw your conclusions. I didn't say or imply that rapists are not responsible for their actions. I implied that they are by saying they should be punished severely. I'm not just blaming the victim. Yet the lewd victim too is culpable for her actions.
silverwhisper said on Apr 02, 2007....
no, i think you did examine this in a somewhat cursory manner. when you describe a woman as "lewd", will that mean the same thing to you that it does to me, or that it might to anyone else? a standard of "lewdness" is meaningless as it's ultimately too subjective to be meaningful.

ed
Dunedin said on Apr 02, 2007....

If you believe I've examined the issue cursorily, it might benefit this discussion if you reread my posts. I've put a lot of thought into what I've said about this subject. I didn't say anything demonstrably untrue like "rape is not sex." Even though you did say this, I give you more credit than to say your examination is cursory. Your point of view might even be well considered but from my point of view ultimately much too forgiving of women who behave stupidly. Stupid, a slippery word. But if you've read my posts, you know what I mean.

What is lewd? As I said, to an extent what is considered depraved [or lewd] is cultural. We all have an idea of what it means in our culture. But nitpicking about the definition of lewdness distracts from the issue.

In my first post I said that Ms. F, who wore a see-through top to a seedy bar and was raped, was the dumb loser who showed smart women how not to behave. This is true no matter what we say about blame or responsibility, or how we nitpick about definitions.
SeanRenaud said on Apr 02, 2007....

We've covered this literaly dozens of comments ago. The victim is never "wrong" but by never blaming the victim and never telling him/her that the behavior immediately prior to this action was not wrong and in no way their fault does not make them change their behavior.

Its not your fault when you get mugged walking through Central Park at midnight with a Rolex and and a 100 dollar bill tied to a string trailing behind you. The muggers are human, still have human thought and likely aren't starving to death (and as has been pointed out prior you can't die of a lack of sex, only go insane.) While you are not at fault, you broke no law, common sense should step in here and say you are exhibiting less than inteligent behavior and while in carebear land nothing bad would result from even the most foolish of behavior and you live in New York, not Carealot Forrest.

@mom

Like I said I'm not much of a psychologist, I find too much of it to be really speculative. That said they're maybe vastly different reasons between why men rape men vs rape women. I don't know. It seems to me that there a whole lot more "empowering" (for lack of a better term) things to force upon a man or woman than vaginal/anal and there has to be a reason why this power trip so frequently takes the form of sex as opposed to any number of other humiliating acts that can be performed or forced upon a person.

So in closing while I'm not arguing the power angle in the least it seems wierd that this has nothing to do with sex, but I'm lack a degree in psychology.
mom said on Apr 02, 2007....
Sean- I understand what you are saying. Some men look for a reason to violate a woman and if given the chance he will do so, but there are some men who cannot relate to a woman on any level and he stalks her, some men just go random. Ted Bundy was married and most women thought him to be good looking, He could have had any of those women if he wanted, but instead he chose to torture and kill, for what reason? I can't nor do I understand it all. I just know the damage it can cause. I do agree though that if you choose to walk through Central Park late at night or even early morning, you put yourself in harms way. I remember that jogger, and how she was raped and beaten so badly by a about 5 teens. They did it cause they could and they did it cause it was fun. They took a brick and bashed her head in. I don't understand the fun? So I am sure there are all kinds of reasons that people do those things but none of them are very good reasons if you are the victim.
4everiamme said on Apr 15, 2007....

When I first started reading this I was mad, but I have calmed down now and am not just being driven by my emotions. I do believe that some women wear clothing and whose actions lead a mans thoughts to sex. Personally I never was that way, and I don't agree that women should do that, but a man being aroused and flirting with a women and a man forcing himself on a women are two very very different things. For rapist, it isn't just about the pleasure of sex, but of contoling and overpowering, it will not matter what the women is doing or wearing, if he wants her, he will get her. I read here where people say that women become more timid and thus easier targets for rapist, I do believe that to be true in some cases. For me, after being molested, I worked harder at staying away from men, of making sure to keep covered and to never do anything to drive men to sexual thoughts. I didn't date, never went anywhere alone. Yet I was raped. My brother who I did trust, helped his friend accomplish this goal. I wasn't out flaunting myself, I worked hard to avoid it once I realized what was happening. I was in my own room. What did I do to make this male rape me? You can read my blog about it, and let me know if I did something to make this guy rape me. So no, women dont' deserve it. I also believe that no matter what a women does if a man is going to rape she cannot stop it. This question then should not be do women deserve to be raped, but why do rapist rape?
mom said on Apr 15, 2007....
4ever- that was sad, your brother helped him? what kind of animal is your brother? Did you ever report them? That is so enraging and sad.
kruuyai said on May 25, 2007....

I could only get through half the comments before my time in the library started to run out, so forgive me if I'm repeating something that someone else has already said. Like Sean mentioned, rapists, like bullies, usually look for easy victims. A woman who has been raped once loses so much of her feeling of self worth, that she takes on the nonverbal characteristics of an easy victim, no matter how confident she may have been before the rape. It can show in her posture, her lack of eye contact, and other self protective or self abasing gestures. Predators are good at picking up on this kind of stuff. Add to that, the shear numbers of rapes that occur.... I personally don't know many women that haven't been raped at least one time in their life... and it's not surprising that we see so many multiple victims (as well as multiple predators)... through no fault of the victim, who, if she doesn't get counseling, self defense training, or other help, continues to unwittingly sending out signals that say, "I'm your next victim." Rape: the gift that keeps on giving.
copsunited said on May 25, 2007....

KRUU.. Having investigated many rapes I can tell you several things you

probably already know: Women take on a whole new personality. gone is their sense of self worth, their confidence and they seem to feel that just getting through another day is labor enough.

What has never ceased to amaze me however is the women refusing to assist in the investigation or even identifying their attackers/rapists. It's like I was talking to a mannequin or a doll. The headlights were on but no one was driving.

Could I ever expect to know what it was like or identify with it? No. I really could not ever say that I could. I just saw the horrible results and those are the things that nightmares are made of.

JD
tmdj06 said on Sep 29, 2007....
I know this is a really old post but I had to say something. Who the hell do you think you are? Are you currently in possession of a vagina of your own? Doyou know what it feels like to have someone force their way inside you? Do some women ask for rape? Some women seem to have been marked at birth w/ a big red V for VICTIM tattooed on their foreheads. And I am one of them. And I have tried very hard throughout the course of my life to protect myself and fight back against anyone who uses me, and these include: my father until I was five and the sick bastard finally went to prison, my best friends older brother and two of his friends when i was twelve, and another friends brother when i was seventeen. I DID NOT ASK FOR A DAMN ONE OF THEM. Maybe someday you will be unlucky enough to experience the sensation firsthand, but until then, maybe you should staple your lips closed to stop the stream of shit pouring out of them.
SeanRenaud said on Sep 29, 2007....

Bravo. Good to know that somebody with such a brilliant grasp as to realize that there is something on her that makes her a victim still can speak from emotion rather than logic.

Great progress we'll make when the people like you who are somehow born victims don't figure out what exactly it is that makes you a target instead of the next woman so it can be taught what behavior should and must be avoided.
skald said on Sep 29, 2007....
Is it all that you can do? spread ill will ?
SeanRenaud said on Sep 30, 2007....

This is actually the opposite of free will based on the statistics we have I came to a logical conclusion. Which by the large has been supported by the men women who have posted here.

There is some kind of behavioral marker that as tmd pointed out paints a red V on the persons forehead. It turns them from a regular person into what will be come a continual victim for the rest of her life. Instead of this happening once it will happen over and over and over again.

We know what kinds of behavior can be used to avoid muggings. Make eye contact, travel in packs, etc etc. We know what kind of behavior to teach children to minimize kidnappings.

The thing about rape is we are afraid to ask the questions. So we don't have many answers. We dont' even really know how often it happens to be perfectly honest. All we know is that if often goes unreported.

It's pretty much impossible to hunt down the people who haven't reported it for obvious reasons. I'd be willing to bet that something in their behavior patterns though (including but not limited to not reporting the crime) lead to them having problem.
Aizzidrumms said on Dec 07, 2007....

Hi,

Check out what this guy has to say on Youtube:

"trickertricks" videos,

The Illusion of Superiority, Escalating Violence pt 1, 2 and 3 and The Cause of All Peoples' Problems.

Interesting stuff.
notajerk said on Jan 27, 2008....
I would say only once case I could ever think of it being justified, and that's for a woman involved with a horrific man. Like Eva Braun. She could actually love a monster like Hitler, making her even more evil than he was. Had she not killed herself, I would have smiled knowing Soviet soldiers would have ganged raped her. That's about the only situation I could ever contemplate. Even my exes, who have horribly wronged me, who were completely dishonest people, cheaters, etc, I would never ever ever even think of that despite how much I hate them.
SeanRenaud said on Jan 27, 2008....

Well the point wasn't would you do it, it wasn't even saying it wasn't wrong. I was asking if certain women put themselves in bad situations and if we should in addition to punishing those who commited the crime tell women that certain behavior has certain consequences.

That was the exactly reason why I mentioned a black guy going to a KKK meeting. Does he deserve to be beaten and maybe killed? No, but the fact is he put himself in a situation that is extremely dangerous and he could have avoided the situation.

Just because I believe that people have a responsibility to protect themselves and make good decisions doesn't mean that I don't believe that those responsible for the crimes are the actual problem.
february101 said on Feb 21, 2008....
Hi, I have just found this page becaue i am a victim of multiple rape and think it is my fault. It has taken about an hour to read through all the postings and its nice to see that most people have a kill the perputrator kind of view and yet, what if the perpurtrators of rape are just ordinary guys? Whenever I think of the times I have been raped I think of footballers with the 'every hole's a goal' mentalility and the 'I've told all my mates i can pull this girl and if i can achieve it by getting her drunk then i am a stud' and 'if i can have sex with this girl and also my mates have sex with this girl then i am more of a stud' and 'if i can make this girl have sex with me even though she didn't want to then i am a super stud'. do these guys realise they might be raping this girl? are they evil sadistic bastards or victims of the 'the more i can get the greater i am' mentality? and what about the girls? Isn't it empowering to be attractive to guys? Isn't it flattering to know that guys may want you that badly and yet you can say no? The most haunting experience for me was when i was gang raped and althoough i said no it is very hard to continue to say no when you are outnumbered, not being listened to and scared, did these guys realise they were raping me? or did they just think they were being studs? Either way I became a victim, again, because i took risks and was optimistic about the outcomes i wanted to believe i was more powerful than i was, just like them
SeanRenaud said on Feb 21, 2008....

You should probably tell your story in whatever detail is comfortable for you. It is a complete reversal of what everybody else (specially the women) are saying.
tbs230 said on Apr 08, 2008....
I've read this post so many times, it's practically seared into my brain. For a very long time I thought I deserved it. They told me I did, and I believed them. For a very long time I didn't particularly care what happened to me, so I'd wear whatever, go wherever. It just didn't matter.

I still have moments when I have to stop and tell myself that I'm worth so much more than that. So, I don't know if some women deserve it, but I do know that some women think they do. Maybe that's the difference.
1human2another said on Jun 14, 2008....
Sean appears to be a low level thinker. One who does not look at the human race as more than the guy he bumped into shooting pool at the local club the other night. He appears to get kicks reading about women struggling over the conflicts created by man through violence. Rape is a global issue. In America it materializes through men that act out violently against women on dates, at clubs, through close friends or relatives, etc. The act of rape itself is still the same act against women in America as it is for those being violated around the world. This is what angers me most. So many men in America think of women as some big joke, some game of tag.. I wonder sometimes if these men truly fail to realize that they were physically held in the sacred womb for nine months. Without us they would have NOTHING! They would be NOTHING. And some do not deserve another go around in our wombs. Maybe some hit their heads on the way out and now have a subconscious hatred towards all women. We do not treat many the way they have been treating us on a whole for hundreds of years. Many like to brush it off by saying..."oh, those feminists"... Many DO NOT take into account the physical confirmation we are dealing with all over the world. Many do not explore the idea that we are a human unit. The oppression of women is obvious. It surfaces on many levels in all regions of the world. In America it is more discrete. It started out very violent and oppressing. We fought for divorce, property rights and the right to vote. We fought for legal action against violence in the home. We fought for our rights in the workplace. American women are fortunate enough to have a voice unlike many other nations. This does not take away from the fact that when men physically, psychologically and/or emotionally exploit women individually, it is the same act of hatred towards women being brought out from the heart and mind of a man. Some men in America do not want to see with historical reference. Many do not want to realize that one by one women are discriminated against, violated, shunned and laughed at for reasons unknown to us. These men don't want to recognize the fact that they ARE a part of the larger picture. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/11/60minutes/main3701249.shtml http://www.irinnews.org/report.aspx?ReportId=76827 http://sa.rochester.edu/masa/stats.php http://www.indianchild.com/sexual_harassment_india.htm http://www.ecpat.net/eng/Ecpat_inter/projects/sex_tourism/sex_tourism.asp Each individual WILL take responsibility for their actions on this planet. This WILL NOT just go away. Women are very important to the Universe. I wait in wonder with great anticipation for the day when men of all nations will be brought to realization of the significance of women, and also to that of their own personal state of being towards us... These past years will not go unnoticed.
SeanRenaud said on Jun 15, 2008....
Not bad, if a little angry sounding. Still welcome to the club.
kruuyai said on Jun 15, 2008....
Why is it that when a woman expresses her feelings about social injustice, she is discounted as being "angry," whereas, if a man expressed the same sentiments on the same or another issue, with just as much vehemence and commitment, or even much, much more, the issue of anger would not even be raised? This seems, to me, to be a typical ploy to discount or trivialize any points that the woman has made, no matter how valid. Back to you, Sean.
SeanRenaud said on Jun 15, 2008....

For several reasons Kru. The biggest is that I'm not responsible or accountable for the things my father did, or my grandfather, or my great grandfather. Guys can't get pregnant, it's true. Last time I checked women can't get women pregnant though so the best you can stand on there is that well one man could get a lot of women pregnant but a woman can only get pregnant once every nine months. So from a pure time stand point repopulation is easier with a bunch of females and one guy. If that isn't your debate then please show me where your logic holds water.

Women have been exploited for centuries because they are equals? No, they have been exploited because until terribly recently this world respected strength and only strength and women are inferior where it mattered. Today where your mind counts for more than your brawn and where a woman and a man push a button and equal amounts of work are done things are changing and likely will continue to change. It may be that ne day men are second rate citizens.

Finally the point of this blog, originally wasn't about equal rights. It was, at its heart about if people need to take some responsibility for the situations they find themselves in. Its not about blaming the victim. Blacks should be able to walk where they want when they want, how they want. That said if a black gets curb stomped at a KKK meeting I'm not going to cry, I'm going to say he shouldn't have been there.
kruuyai said on Jun 15, 2008....
Sean... talk about a nonsequiter (ok.. I give up on the spelling of that word). ... but nothing in your response had anything to do with what I said. I was referring to your response to 1human2another.
1human2another said on Jun 15, 2008....
I don't have time today. It is interesting to watch you read about the ideas of women deeply. We were forced to anger. Women are generally peaceful beings. We are supposed to be at balance with our counterparts. This has not been the case over the past few hundred years. We are constantly forced to become aggressors in order to attain the very means of survival. The treatment on a global level is astounding. I find it depressing and embarrassing that the human race has not evolved in order to appreciate the very planet we share. People of all nations are being attacked constantly. People of color, of religion and of sexuality are constantly bothered. It is not hard to figure out that we are a part of one planet system. It is not hard to be at peace with each other. Most of this severe violence is being initiated by man. You may put your brawn on a pedestal but, I suggest you look down to see how far of a fall. I am not angry with man individually. Each person has an opportunity to be themselves. I have very high expectations of man. You have outstanding ideas and philosophical possibility. Some just miss the bus altogether. http://www.womeninworldhistory.com/rulers.html No, I am not angry with a man. I am very concerned for all of my sisters of the planet. I love them deeply.
SeanRenaud said on Jun 15, 2008....

I'm not sure why you felt that wasn't for you Kru, but I'll try to focus on you. You're quite simply wrong, a man who responds with anger is being angry as well. Give a specific example instead of a reflexive, that's sexist and maybe I can give you a better answer

Women generally pe.

@Human: I was quite specific that the time of physical strength is over. And this is directly linked to women gaining equality, generally speaking the higher the standard of living in a country the better it's women are treated. For your sisters in America, make sure they vote and for Gods sake teach them to stop trying so damn hard to have their cake and eat it to. You can't go around talking about a man is a pimp and a woman is a ho being a double standard, screaming at the top of your lungs that you're independent and don't need no man, then crying over child support. You can't keep screaming treat me like an equal and then blame the man for not initiating a relationship or for the lost romance in your life.

For gods sake watch the situations you put yourself in. Nothing is going to make the rapist good, or right. But at some point you have to say well if she hadn't gotten drunk and left with that guy this wouldn't have happened. Specially now that the definition of rape includes the girl deciding sometimes the next day that she was drunk and she would never have consented sober. Especially when things like the Duke Lacross case show that there is no benefit of the doubt or innocent until proven guilty. A woman screams rape a man goes to jail, unless he's really rich or really lucky.
1human2another said on Jun 15, 2008....
A man will ALWAYS take responsibility for his actions. If a woman gets drunk than she will take responsibility for being drunk. If a man rapes than he will take responsibility for being a rapist.
SeanRenaud said on Jun 15, 2008....

If a woman gets drunk than she will take responsibility for being drunk.

Is that what happened to the Duke Lacross players? A woman taking responsibility for being drunk. . .No wait she wasn't even there!

The idea that a man will always take responsibility for his actions is laughable to begin with. Do you believe in the tooth fairy? Even so like I said a woman can decided the next day that she was raped after giving consent.
1human2another said on Jun 15, 2008....
Time is of the essence...
Myth_Of_Me said on Oct 01, 2008....

What an interesting co-incidence to find this today. I'm going to make lots of people unhappy by posting this, but I'm posting it to give a different perspective on the situation.

This happened to me in February of THIS Year, and this is my Journal Entry for it:

2008_02_11

Standing in a B.K. today, waiting for dinner to be moved from the ‘finished’ rack to my tray. Girl of 11 or 12 comes up, is waiting for her food too. I notice her sweater first. It’s purple and nubbly and the type of fabric they make stuffed toys from. In the process of generally looking away my eyes sweep over her frontal (chest) area. Suddenly I’m embarrassed for her, she’s got nipples bigger than mine and they’re sticking out! After a reasonable moment – where I think I’m loosing my mind and trying to tell myself NOT to look again – well, I do it. I look back. No nipples. What a relief. But after a moment they’re there again! I finally look up at the girl’s face. She’s staring at me, watching me watch her. I’m exciting her by my attentions! I give her a nod, quite serious now, and wonder what the hell just happened!!!? The girl, Purple Girl as I’ll call her, crosses five feet to stand next to me, almost touching but not quite. We’re not looking at each other, not saying anything. My husband is standing five feet away, his food cooling on the table behind him. He’s hungry. I’m hungry. And now, I’m scared. I keep asking myself: what does this mean? What does this mean?

I’m reminded of being 11 years old, of having unfettered and bouncing bubbies that brush the inside of my sweater, of going down the isle in a dim-lit warehouse style supermarket and finding myself face to face with three Mexican men. They are grinning, smiling, and looking pointedly at my chest. It excites me – all of it – and I’d like nothing more than to walk into the bathroom with one, two or all three men following me. They keep grinning, looking at my bubbies and I keep standing there, feeling a strange excitement zipping through me to my virgin grotto. Nobody moved forever.

Purple Girl’s order comes up: three super-large sandwiches and three super-large fries come up. My order comes up: two small burgers and a small fry. I remember then that she came in with three super-large women and helped them count out coins on the counter. Are they poor like me? Before she can take herself away I put one of my small burgers on the tray. At our respective tables, halfway through my single burger, I look at her. She’s sitting, facing me. As I watch her legs swing open, her hand slips down, she caresses herself. The act is lewd. She wanted me to see her do it.

I think to myself: Am I encouraging this? Am I grinning at her? What’s going on here? Then comes the important question: is she turning me on? I almost choke on my hamburger. Is she turning me on? No. Rather than being excited or disgusted I’m just sad. I wish…I wish I was 11 again.
fmervicker said on Nov 11, 2008....

some do, no question
hellboundmercinary said on Nov 23, 2008....
Sean, I didn't deserve to be raped either in the front or the back. Both times I said no. It was also someone I was trying to trust. I think it's just a matter that alot of you men can't control your penises. Do you think that I deserved it just because I was their partner? I don't care if I had sex with them willingly on another date or not. I shouldn't have had to give it up when I wasn't in the mood. I wanted a virgin anus, and wanted to keep it that way. The other guy couldn't understand the concept of a urinary tract infection.
TheRealMcCoy said on Feb 06, 2009....

Yes, in fact many of them do but it’s all too often the ones that don’t deserve it who get raped, there are some real Stupid bitches out there that will just like kick up dust and create drama, to make you react! Then they pretend like their the victim and make you look like the nasty fiend! Just so they can feel good about themselves, and get felt sorry for.etc

Mind games and manipulation; don’t fall for it because it just isn’t worth doing the jail time for some skank like that. It doesn’t make you smarter than them and on a side note; Real men don’t need to rape women to get laid... If you that desperate you need some game
gavinc said on Feb 24, 2009....
of course women deserve to be raped! why ask if they do? its damn obvious! how dare a woman say no to a man. women are here for a mans pleasure and to look after a man. call it what you will, slave or whatever,if a woma says no they she has opened herself to it. there is nobody else to blame but here. all these women on here must be mad to even think a man could be at fault! take a look at yourself and you'll see you werebto blame all along
JusticeForAll said on Apr 20, 2009....

No one ever deserves to be raped. However, I can say that there might be a situation where someone might put themself into a situation where the likelihood becomes stronger for trouble to arise. If you keep getting yourself into the same situation, you should realize you need to learn from your mistakes. So no, they don't "deserve" it, but perhaps they should change the situations they get themselves into to end up in such a predicament.

(coming from a 1 time victim)I would never set myself up in a situation similar to that ever again. But I also don't feel that it was my fault.
javadewd said on Apr 30, 2009....
Ugh. This is such an idiotic post... Some of us try to make idiotic posts on purpose. I don't think you tried hard enough... Why don't you just abuse your 1st amendment rights altogether and just yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater. It makes about as much sense...
VetSelfDefense said on May 06, 2009....
NO WOMAN OR MAN..except for you Sean deserves to be raped...your views are sick at best. What if you mother or daughter was raped multiple times. I bet your views wuld change.. but then again they proboly would'nt. There is a website for anyone who wants to protect themselves from rape or any other violent crime...goto www.veteranselfdefense.com for more info...
SeanRenaud said on May 06, 2009....

Emotional arguments are so fucking stupid. If what happened to my mother, sister, father, brother effected what I thought should effect the world I'd hate cops, America the government and whites.

That is beside the point entirely.
Ordinary12 said on Aug 02, 2009....
The majority of comments on this subject are ridiculous! Of course some women deserve to be raped. Stupidity carries a major consequence. If you're a woman at a party and men are approaching you for sex do you really think its smart to get drunk and pass out in one of the bedrooms in the back of the house? If you're a man your answer will be "No". If you're a woman you're probably already getting pounded by a group men who were just waiting for your stupid ass to put yourself in that situation. Here's something else to think about. I was watching a television show called "I survived" and there was an attractive blond woman on there that was talking about how she decided to just give her attacker what he wanted so he would leave her house. The second I heard her say that I turned the channel. That was not rape. Rather than fight to the death she decided to willingly give him sex so she would survive and he would leave. A woman like that is nothing more than trash. In fact...its good to know that there are women out there so spineless that they will give up there ass so easily just to get you to leave them alone. Male predators every where appreciate you. Most women aren't worth a damn...and they know it. But to the women of the world who don't do stupid shit like what I've just mentioned...you have my deepest respect. You know who you are.
Jem4 said on Sep 03, 2009....
Um, like alot of the other people who posted, I'm a multiple rape victim. I've been raped 12 times. I know, that it is quite a bit considering my current age. I was just wondering if Sean had a point......Did I do something to make myself appear easier to take advantage of? I know I didn't deserve it, maybe I'm looking at all of this wrong, I'm just not exactly sure about anything anymore. I'm just tired of being hurt. I'm 15.
temporaryhigh said on Sep 10, 2009....
Ok firstly a women should be able to go out and get drunk with out the fear of rape in the first place women don't commonly wait around for men to drunkenly pass out to take advantage of them so what runs through so many mens heads that makes it different and tells them its ok to have sex with a women when she is passed out its the same as someone climbing through someone's window and attacking them in their sleep so what if they are at a party and have had a drink if some one is asleep or says no it means no i really don't understand why so many men cannot just take that first off answer and will continue to pursue and pursue women, just because you want them doesn't mean you can eventually have them rape will always seem acceptable 2 some men because some men think of rape as a joke there minds just can't comprehend that women are not just their for men to grab at and fondle and thats the problem, am not saying some women don't put themselves in dangerous situations often they do but its this idea men have of women in their heads that creates these dangerous situations in the first place so maybe its the mens attitudes we should be changing rather than spreading the already commonly known word to women rape is against the law worse than murder it is never acceptable in some cases murder can be justified rape never can i have been raped and have read up on it alot i dont no why maybe to answer questions for myself but anyway i have often wondered the same thing as sean from reading stories when it comes to repeat victims in my head i have the idea i would never let anyone get a chance to do anything like that to me again but i still go out and get drunk with friends i wouldn't say i was extremely more careful perhaps just more aware of my surroundings but to some extent i do wonder if its certain characteristics that make people repeated victims i to think it cannot be such a big coinsidence i think maybe its more the vunrability your left with after rape people see or even that if someone is shown abuse all their life this is all they know and are drawn towards it i am just taking this from the stories i have read (i have read hundreads) it just seems like more people who were abused as children end up being abused again as they grow up and maybe its something to do with their previous experiences like if it starts at a certain younger age someone who has gone through it as a child is obviously going to be affected in a completely different way than i was (i was 17 btw) so maybe that is a factor i guess we will always be second guessing though i don't think sean is implying women deserve rape its just curiousity of a taboo subject the one thing i do disagree on is the kkk meeting that is such a completely different situation than being in a club drinking a black man walking into a kkk meeting is obviously asking for trouble rapists are not labeled women don't seek them out its like saying everyman in a club or bar is possible rapist and if thats the society we live in where every man is capable i guess were all fucked
Ordinary12 said on Sep 13, 2009....
To: temporaryhigh
From: Ordinary12

Do you actually live in the same world as the rest of us? What kind of white bred fantasy land do you come from? It's perfectly fine for a woman to get drunk and pass out when ever and where ever she chooses...just don't be surprised if you wake up with a sore asshole and sticky face in the morning. Wishing the world was a different place doesn't make it so and we all have to deal with the reality we find ourselves in. Since this site is being read by a lot of young girls I think it would be in there best interest if you wouldn't fill there heads with dangerous nonsense that will get them hurt in the future. Ladies...this world is full of shitty people who will take advantage of you at every opportunity. If you plan seeing this life through to the end then you need to follow the first rule of boxing. "Protect yourself at all times!" That goes for everyone, regardless of your sex. Look both ways before crossing the street and don't flirt with strangers to feel good about yourselves. Some people won't play your game and will beat your ass senseless and take what they want from you. Find a different way to boost your pathetic egos ladies because if I'm on the jury for your rape case and I find out you did something foolish that resulted in your rape then that man will walk scott-free on every charge. You have been warned.
temporaryhigh said on Sep 14, 2009....

Ordinary12

just because i believe it is my right to go out and get drunk without the threat of being attacked doesn't mean i am suggesting it doesn't happen i said a women should i didn't say it was a reality and i simply stated what makes it different in a mans mind that it happens so very often to women and so very little to men, i was more ranting about the attitudes towards it in general
i was stating that it is as wrong as any other form of rape which has been argued to the contary in most posts in this blog, protecting yourself is obvious its human nature for us to protect ourselfs when it comes to rape its not as easy as just saying that.... people dont look to get raped
i obviously dont live in a fantasy land due to the fact i have been raped i just think its pathetic that so many think by getting drunk people have aided their own rape your basically saying have a drink its your own fault and thats exactly the attitude that needs changing in mens and womens minds because thats what makes it seem more acceptable
SeanRenaud said on Sep 14, 2009....

It's not that it's acceptable, at all. It's the fact that you created the situation and could have easily avoided it. Of course it doesn't happen to men very often, men and women are different. We've spent thrity years lying to ourselves about that simple fact but men and women are not the same. Equal? Maybe. Identical? Not in our wildlest dreams. There are things that each gender has to do differently. Women have to be more aware of how much they drink and who they drink with. Men have to be aware of who they marry or else they lose half their shit.
Ordinary12 said on Sep 14, 2009....
To: SeanRenaud
From: Ordinary12
Common sense lives!!! I couldn't have said it any better myself. Thank you for saying the truth out loud because I was sick of the silent lie our society has been trying to live in for the past thirty years. A woman is more dangerous than any "Weapon of Mass Destruction" because she can actually get a man to give her everything he owns...and apologize to her for not caring enough about her needs. "FUCKING AMAZING!!!" The majority of females on this site got raped because they were too dumb to know when to put the bottle down. News flash, ladies...men want to have sex with you! We are programed to find you attractive...only God knows why. So if you don't want a room full of cock stabbing at you from all angles, and possibly transmitting a cocktail of STD's into you, stop going to strange men's apartments to "Talk", stop getting drunk around people you barely know, and don't wear clothes that barely cover your ass and tits then get upset when someone tries to sample your goods. If you dress like a whore then you should expect to be treated like one. Don't pretend like you don't know what we're talking about because I know each of you know women in your life that don't put themselves in stupid situations like you do. Pattern your lives after them.
temporaryhigh said on Sep 15, 2009....
i still don't believe that a women who drinks deserves what she's got and the whole idea in itself really does make it seem acceptable can't you see that, yes some girls put themselves in the worse situations were common sense should come in even i question some girls judgement but Ordinary12 you seem to think that every experience of rape involving alcohol has come about by her walking of with a stranger or willingly going back to someone's flat yes some rape does happen like this but not all rape whilst drinking, some are spiked while out with friends, dragged from busy main streets or even attacked in the toilets of a club its not always the scene you paint of women handing themselves to these situations a lot of women do act responsibly whilst drinking and it can still happen so don't turn around and assume the "dumb" women got herself raped
Ordinary12 said on Sep 15, 2009....
To: temporaryhigh
From: Ordinary12
You're absolutely right! All rapes don't happen the ways I described...some are much worse. I never said I knew "Every" scenario of rape in the world but even you admitted that the examples I gave in previous posts do happen a lot and the women involved in those particular examples of rape really need there heads examined..."Just plain foolish!!!" The greatest thing to come out of this conversation so far is all the great information the participants have gave on this subject so females that don't want to get raped can learn from those who have. You named a few scenarios of rape that I didn't think of and that's exactly what young females need to be aware of so they can lessen there chances of getting raped. Its not always the woman's fault but women every where can drastically lessen the opportunity for this disgusting act to occur by using a little common sense. I'm only focusing on the clear cases of stupid women doing stupid shit that results in them getting raped. I don't have an answer for the other cases where a woman is dragged from a busy street or is raped by a home invader but I can offer one suggestion...no...a command. "FIGHT BACK!!!" Don't just lay there and present your ass to this guy because you're scared and want it to be over. Do you really want to meet God with that on your resume? Every time I see a case like that on the television show "I Survived" I just go nuts and start screaming at the top of my lungs. I had a girl friend who was into that kind of shite and it disgusted me to no end. She wanted me to "take it" from her. Let me tell you something ladies...if you fight back hard enough that man will be too tired to get it up so fight like your life depended on it, because it just might.
temporaryhigh said on Sep 15, 2009....

i am starting to see were you are coming from i think i was just thrown off by how bluntly you put it in previous posts
i will definatly agree with you there and will say without fighting back and screaming at the top of my lungs the situation i was in could of become a lot worse if i hadnt of drawn attention to myself..... do not ever go down without a fight!!
Felicity said on Oct 19, 2009....
.
NotTheOfficeWhore said on Oct 28, 2009....

So, I just checked an old email account and was flabbergasted to see that this dipshit post is still going. I responded to it over 2 long damn years ago. How on EARTH is this still a matter for debate???? Is the world full of misogynistic retards?

Let's make this simple, if you don't want to take the time to scroll up and read my initial post.
- No means no.
- Drunk and passed out means no.
- Dressed like a whore, blowing you, THEN says no? Yep, that means no too.
- Has already fucked you 200 times and on time 201 says no, that means no.
If you are one of the utter idiots that thinks a woman EVER "asks" for it or "deserves" it, why don't you imagine this: You're out with all your drinking buddies, having a great old time. You dressed up in something better than your sweat pants in hopes of meeting a lovely young lady. You're all buzzing and happy, smiling, chasing shots with beer. Life is good. This is what a guys night out should be about. But, whoops, you get a little too drunk, go outside to puke, and some BIG HAIRY son of a bitch jumps you and sticks it up your ass while you beg no. You try to fight, but he's WAY bigger and stronger and you know the more you fight, the more you'll get hit. So, in an effort to not end up in the hospital for a month, you just let him pound your furry ass until it's over and he's done. Now DOES THAT SOUND LIKE YOU ASKED FOR IT???? No. Not even you, Mr. Misogynist. While I'd like to say, after reading some of the more recent posts, that you too "deserve" it, I cannot. Because NO ONE EVER DESERVES IT!

Dogs in heat hump legs. Are you truly no better? Well, I guess not.
NotTheOfficeWhore said on Oct 28, 2009....

So, I just checked an old email account and was flabbergasted to see that this dipshit post is still going. I responded to it over 2 long damn years ago. How on EARTH is this still a matter for debate???? Is the world full of misogynistic retards?

Let's make this simple, if you don't want to take the time to scroll up and read my initial post.
- No means no.
- Drunk and passed out means no.
- Dressed like a whore, blowing you, THEN says no? Yep, that means no too.
- Has already fucked you 200 times and on time 201 says no, that means no.
If you are one of the utter idiots that thinks a woman EVER "asks" for it or "deserves" it, why don't you imagine this: You're out with all your drinking buddies, having a great old time. You dressed up in something better than your sweat pants in hopes of meeting a lovely young lady. You're all buzzing and happy, smiling, chasing shots with beer. Life is good. This is what a guys night out should be about. But, whoops, you get a little too drunk, go outside to puke, and some BIG HAIRY son of a bitch jumps you and sticks it up your ass while you beg no. You try to fight, but he's WAY bigger and stronger and you know the more you fight, the more you'll get hit. So, in an effort to not end up in the hospital for a month, you just let him pound your furry ass until it's over and he's done. Now DOES THAT SOUND LIKE YOU ASKED FOR IT???? No. Not even you, Mr. Misogynist. While I'd like to say, after reading some of the more recent posts, that you too "deserve" it, I cannot. Because NO ONE EVER DESERVES IT!

Dogs in heat hump legs. Are you truly no better? Well, I guess not.
NotTheOfficeWhore said on Oct 28, 2009....

So, I just checked an old email account and was flabbergasted to see that this dipshit post is still going. I responded to it over 2 long damn years ago. How on EARTH is this still a matter for debate???? Is the world full of misogynistic retards?

Let's make this simple, if you don't want to take the time to scroll up and read my initial post.
- No means no.
- Drunk and passed out means no.
- Dressed like a whore, blowing you, THEN says no? Yep, that means no too.
- Has already fucked you 200 times and on time 201 says no, that means no.
If you are one of the utter idiots that thinks a woman EVER "asks" for it or "deserves" it, why don't you imagine this: You're out with all your drinking buddies, having a great old time. You dressed up in something better than your sweat pants in hopes of meeting a lovely young lady. You're all buzzing and happy, smiling, chasing shots with beer. Life is good. This is what a guys night out should be about. But, whoops, you get a little too drunk, go outside to puke, and some BIG HAIRY son of a bitch jumps you and sticks it up your ass while you beg no. You try to fight, but he's WAY bigger and stronger and you know the more you fight, the more you'll get hit. So, in an effort to not end up in the hospital for a month, you just let him pound your furry ass until it's over and he's done. Now DOES THAT SOUND LIKE YOU ASKED FOR IT???? No. Not even you, Mr. Misogynist. While I'd like to say, after reading some of the more recent posts, that you too "deserve" it, I cannot. Because NO ONE EVER DESERVES IT!

Dogs in heat hump legs. Are you truly no better? Well, I guess not.
NotTheOfficeWhore said on Oct 28, 2009....

So, I just checked an old email account and was flabbergasted to see that this dipshit post is still going. I responded to it over 2 long damn years ago. How on EARTH is this still a matter for debate???? Is the world full of misogynistic retards?

Let's make this simple, if you don't want to take the time to scroll up and read my initial post.
- No means no.
- Drunk and passed out means no.
- Dressed like a whore, blowing you, THEN says no? Yep, that means no too.
- Has already fucked you 200 times and on time 201 says no, that means no.
If you are one of the utter idiots that thinks a woman EVER "asks" for it or "deserves" it, why don't you imagine this: You're out with all your drinking buddies, having a great old time. You dressed up in something better than your sweat pants in hopes of meeting a lovely young lady. You're all buzzing and happy, smiling, chasing shots with beer. Life is good. This is what a guys night out should be about. But, whoops, you get a little too drunk, go outside to puke, and some BIG HAIRY son of a bitch jumps you and sticks it up your ass while you beg no. You try to fight, but he's WAY bigger and stronger and you know the more you fight, the more you'll get hit. So, in an effort to not end up in the hospital for a month, you just let him pound your furry ass until it's over and he's done. Now DOES THAT SOUND LIKE YOU ASKED FOR IT???? No. Not even you, Mr. Misogynist. While I'd like to say, after reading some of the more recent posts, that you too "deserve" it, I cannot. Because NO ONE EVER DESERVES IT!

Dogs in heat hump legs. Are you truly no better? Well, I guess not.
NotTheOfficeWhore said on Oct 28, 2009....

So, I just checked an old email account and was flabbergasted to see that this dipshit post is still going. I responded to it over 2 long damn years ago. How on EARTH is this still a matter for debate???? Is the world full of misogynistic retards?

Let's make this simple, if you don't want to take the time to scroll up and read my initial post.
- No means no.
- Drunk and passed out means no.
- Dressed like a whore, blowing you, THEN says no? Yep, that means no too.
- Has already fucked you 200 times and on time 201 says no, that means no.
If you are one of the utter idiots that thinks a woman EVER "asks" for it or "deserves" it, why don't you imagine this: You're out with all your drinking buddies, having a great old time. You dressed up in something better than your sweat pants in hopes of meeting a lovely young lady. You're all buzzing and happy, smiling, chasing shots with beer. Life is good. This is what a guys night out should be about. But, whoops, you get a little too drunk, go outside to puke, and some BIG HAIRY son of a bitch jumps you and sticks it up your ass while you beg no. You try to fight, but he's WAY bigger and stronger and you know the more you fight, the more you'll get hit. So, in an effort to not end up in the hospital for a month, you just let him pound your furry ass until it's over and he's done. Now DOES THAT SOUND LIKE YOU ASKED FOR IT???? No. Not even you, Mr. Misogynist. While I'd like to say, after reading some of the more recent posts, that you too "deserve" it, I cannot. Because NO ONE EVER DESERVES IT!

Dogs in heat hump legs. Are you truly no better? Well, I guess not.
SeanRenaud said on Oct 28, 2009....
Not everybody is agreeing with your idea that women bear no responsibility for the situations they get into. It's not mysogynistic. Just like it's not racist to say that blacks shouldn't be in certain neighborhoods. Or that there are places where I wouldn't want to be white after dark.
Ordinary12 said on Oct 29, 2009....
I agree with you, SeanRenaud. Its just a matter of common sense...something our agitated "OfficeWhore" appears to be lacking. Being angry at yourself for being so stupid as to place yourself in unnecessary danger is very understandable but it shouldn't cause you to promote that same risky behaviour to other young women. Did you ever stop and think that the advice your mothers gave you about not wearing certain types of clothes in the street was for your own saftey? Of course not...you just wanted to advertise your ass to every hungry predator out there and magically expect nothing bad would happen. Think about it now...that's crazy behaviour. If a black man knows that the KKK is going to have a rally in the corn field down the street tonight would it be wise for him to stroll through there by himself to say "Hello"? Of course not...because that would be stupid. Now if he were to plan everything out so he could shoot them all in the head with out taking any damage himself then he would be a genius...but I digress. The fact of the matter is that no one should be raped and if you use a little common sense then you can avoid the majority of situations where that might occur.

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Richmond gang rape victim must be white.

D6fer posted on Nov 01, 2009 | views: 533 | Tags: rape, crime, gangs, politics, race, hate, duke

A hate crime? Or just a white girl getting raped?... read entire post 61 comments

how do i even begin to tell him?

irelandeyes posted on Oct 22, 2009 | views: 89 | Tags: rape, love, ex boyfriend, liar, fake, dude, rape confusion trust issues love ex boyfriend liar fake dude

if you read my last blog, then you know that i was raped. god, its still so hard to write those words. even harder to speak them. ive told my 2 sisters, and my best male friend. the only time i ever said the word rape was to my little sister, and thats o... read entire post 6 comments

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Do some women deserve to be raped?

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