• SeanRenaud said on Mar 05, 2007....

  Ok I'm an aetheist but honestly if you read the Bible there is plenty of support for just wars, like say against anybody with different beliefs than your own.  Its laughable to say that Christians aren't following their book.

• FaithfulDisciple said on Mar 05, 2007....

  Maybe the wars you mentioned could be attributed to the ongoing battle between good and evil.  Where the teachings of Jesus is based on love, charity and forgiveness; the evil forces seek to undermine and counter it with an opposing force bent on a philosophy of violence and hatred as the wars seek to cultivate.
  
  But reading the Bible, one can be guided accordingly with the true spirit and intentions because it is the Divine Consciousness of the Word of God truthfully speaking to the reader's heart.  You have found the truth and the truth shall set you free from doubts and fears.
  

• shiningstar said on Mar 06, 2007....

  Well ,  for me,  I no longer am a believer and good and evil.  Their are things i like and things I do not like but if I am to believe and practise equality I must consideer that all people are like me to a certain extent and have the same right to say or do what ever they believe in.  I do not think wars will end until we reeducate ourselves.  We have blindly followed religion and government and not stopped to take the time to discover for our ownselves that what they say and what they do are two different things.  This is a divided house and we and we alone have the power to change all things that we do not want or like in our world.  If a Christian was born and raised in the Muslim faith they would be a Muslim.  So it is obviously envirement that produces both.

• fromadistance said on Mar 06, 2007....

  With all do respect to you as a possible resonable thinking  person, however, I must say  that your coments in your reply sound like you are livivng in a world of fanasty. Yes, we all have the right to believe as we choose and you have chosen to believe the the most naive beliefs. Beliefs that are  in contradiction to an  overwhelming amont of  evidence. I shudder to think that that are many more people that think as you do.

  You evidently have not studied the major religions and beliefs , you comments shout this very loudly. Perhaps you have blindly followed in the past, but a thinking Christians will  know what they believe and why they believe it and will  not blindly follow anything. Notice I did not say all Christians, as some sadly do not study for  themselves and some do follow blindy. To know what you believe and why you believe it comes from a diligent study, something you seem to not have engaged in to any great  degree.

  Yet you blantantly quote a Bible scripture, ( A house divided) from a book you claim is just a hoax. And you give lip service to following the precepts from a man that you say is written as a hoax. Your argument is some what weaken when you use a source the very thing that you are trying to discredit.

  You say you no longer believe in good an evil. A very interesting  proposition. I guess in  your mind, if a thief robbed you and took all of your things that would be okay, no good or evil right ?

   Your last two comments are among the least thought out. You said, if a christian is born  in the Muslim faith and raised as a Muslim they would be a Muslim. This again shouts of your lack of logical thinking and your lack of knowledge as to what it means to be  Christian. To be a  Christian  in a "Quote ", Christian Country one must choose to be. To be Muslim  in a Muslim country one is born into it and they have  no choice, to be otherwise means death.

  Your comment that a persons environment produces both is based on lack of knowledge and ignorance concerning both Christianity and the  Muslims. ( Christianity is a relationship with Jesus Christ, Muslim, is a very exclusive  religion with a very strict set of rules to follow)

  I do not mean to belittle your thinking ,I only want to make you think logically.Are there bad people in the world ?,yes  Are there good people in the world?yes. Can we know the difference?  Most of the time we can, however. we must do our homework sometimes, to know the difference. IF you want to use scripture to try and make your point  try this one out,  2Timothy 2:15,

  15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness

   

  Jesus Loves us all, Choose or not, it is your call.

  Blessings in the Lord Jesus Christ, Clyde

• silverwhisper said on Mar 06, 2007....

  whoa...i haven't always been a friend to religion in the past, but the present-day application or mis-application of what was taught 2000 years ago is not to me a reasonable argument to invalidate the teachings.
  
  ed

• shiningstar said on Mar 07, 2007....

  Perhaps what I wrote was not what you read.  Read it again.  I have never said that the Bible or Jesus was a hoax.  Jesus said not to mix the old with the new.Even thought the old was familar to people it would not work to bring about the best if mixed together.  People say that they can prove anything by quoting the Bible>  This is because Jesus said and taught one thing and Jehovah taught the opposite.  Christians took over the Hebrew god and follow him the self stated jealous war god.  Hence we live in a time of religious wars.---Are the teachings of Jesus just as important today as then??Have we learned to live our lives as compassionate,  loving people who forgive everyone of everything????Are we free???Or are we like the Hebrew people who declined the offer of Jesus to free them by telling him that they were free and always had been free???

• silverwhisper said on Mar 07, 2007....

  you quoth
  i believe that what the world has been taught about jesus represents the greatest hoax ever perpetuated on the world. i believe that this is easily proven when the perception of what we read changes.

  
  shiningstar, i see i misread you. when you say that what people are taught about jesus is a hoax however, you are saying that there's a deliberate, conscious effort to distort the teachings, aren't you? you haven't really established what agency is responsible for this.
  
  ed

• fromadistance said on Mar 07, 2007....

  Sorry if I have missed read you, but I only can go by what you have wrote. You said, “what we have taught about Jesus is a hoax:” I would of you then,  what  are you talking about, what the Bible has to say or what a minister says the Bible says.

   

   IF you are a true seeker of truth, I feel that you might be , you will then have studied it for your self, as the Bible commands in 2 Timothy 2:15, and then when a falsehood is taught about Jesus you would know it. If a minister cannot give you, Chapter and verses for what they claim, discount it as merely his opinion and not the truth.

   

  Then you said, “and the perception of what we read changes”. I am assuming that you mean when you  read the Bible. However, what perception are you talking about, a false one giving by an ignorant or self indulgent minister or the one you have learned for your self through diligent study? You have spoken in such general terms; one is left not quite knowing what it is you are talking about.

  The Bible teaches us in the Book of 1John;

   

  1 John 4:1 (KJB)
  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

   

  We have to be on our guard against false teachers just as the Bible warns us. If this is the message that you are trying to show, I agree 100% and I have no issue with that stand.

   

  However, I am a bit confused when you say that the consciousness of Jehovah and Jesus are different. Are you not aware that Jesus was God in the flesh, and he was Jehovah in the flesh, which is the same? Are you perhaps a Jehovah witness, as you seem to separate the two.

   

  You make the claim that Christians have taken over the God of the Hebrews and turned him into a jealous war god, which you use as evidence for the many wars. Which is a claim based on a falsehood. Do you not know that Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi and he taught in the synagogues as a Jew representing the same Jehovah that you are trying to separate from him?

   

  The followers and believers in Jesus as the saviour for the world did not take the God from the Hebrews they are merely followers of that Gods’ only begotten son, sent to give his life for you and then rest of the world who will accept him.

   

  You said in your reply that Jesus taught one thing and Jehovah taught the opposite. Again, you speak in general terms, and you give no specifics or examples for your claim. You do not allow for any intelligent dialogue for what you are saying.  

   

  If I have missed what you are saying again, I would welcome your clarification on these points as they extremely important

   

  Blessings Clyde.

   

• shiningstar said on Mar 07, 2007....

  Clarity my friends,  clarity.  The hoax  is the mixing of two individuals into one teaching which was and continues to be an ongoing teaching and belief.  I repeat,  the Bible for 1194 pages of the Old Testament is an easy read that leaes no one to question it's words,  sayings or it's intent. Act through revelations is the same as the Christians attempt to put together a religion based on jesus but not doing as he taught and did.  Only the Book of Matthew,  Mark,  Luke and John do not fit into the Jehovah teachings except for the spatterings of death and doom that is also found in the Book of revelations and the Old Testament.  Jesus lives and says one thing.  Jehovah lives and dones another.  One stands for power over self,  love,  compassion and forgiveness the other for the "might makes right" consciousness  that is alive and well today.

• fromadistance said on Mar 07, 2007....

  You are less than an honest person and  beyond help, sorry that I wasted my time responding to someone that is so ignorant of what the Bible teaches. You do not even have the honesty to reply to  questions about your remarks. You are evidently incapable of defending your position with any intelligent dialogue. May God have mercy on your stupidity and ignorance.
   
   1 Corinthians 14:38 (KJV)
  But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. (KJV
  
  

• shiningstar said on Mar 10, 2007....

  It is amazing to me that so many people go on the defensive about my posts.  The personal attacks to my mentality and my self are absolutely amazing.  I will remind you Bible people that Jesus came to a people and offered to free them but they saw themselves as free already.  His teachings have been misrepresented because the truth does free people and truth is a hard sell.  Everyone want to hang onto what their peers,  parents and the societies that they live in has taught them. They refuse to stretch their minds and attempt to envision a deeper more revelent truth that will change their perspective. Religious people seem to mostly be in the attack mode very unlike Jesus>  They attack and attempt to defame anyone who attempts to open their mind and take them from the old to the new.But that was what Jesus said we must do.------I ask only that you comptemplate one thing.  If you read another book beside the Bible and there was a person who used their power to steal,  abuse and murder those with no power would you call them a wonderful person or a bully?  Then link that person to an infinately kind,  compassionate person and say that they are one and the same.  Remember Jesus was hung on a tree for the religious sin of blasphemy. Define blasphemy and reread  the teachings of Jesus and you will see what he came to free people from.

• shiningstar said on Mar 12, 2007....

  I was just reading "husbandhaters" post on Bush.  Do people not see the "might equals right"  attitude here that comes from religion??? If we choose to believe that it is perfectly OK for one person to create wars and genocide then do we not have to accept that for all?  How does one condemn  Hitler,  Saddam,  Bush and others who do these things and then claim that Jehovah ,  the old war god of the Old Testament is right to do these things?  By mixing Jehovah and his ways with the ways of Jesus people who claim them to be one do the acts of Jehovah not Jesus.  This is deeply embedded into the consciousness of the world no matter who you are or where. It trickelses down to wars in the homes where man overrides women and children,  to schools where children are not allowed to just be who they are.  It is why so many people say that one can prove anything by the Bible.  Two ways being mixed into one creates not only confusion but someone who cries love but creates hate.

• husbandhater said on Mar 13, 2007....

  Wow how'd I miss this one. The truth is being twisted for mans own gain. This is something that was warned about. Welcome to SC by the way.

• SeanRenaud said on Mar 13, 2007....

  There is no truth.  That's the bloody point.

• shiningstar said on Mar 14, 2007....

  silver whisper I am not blaming or naming anyone for this hoax.  I believe that in their great attempt to have the hebrew Nation return to Jehovah the orginal creators of the so called new religion simply wove the life and teachings of Jesus into the teachings of Jehovah.  Remember the New Testament was created hundreds of years after the death of Jesus.  But since Jesus was a man that the people loved and followed because he and he alone refused to judge them they used this as a tool to create something that they said was new but was in fact just a new addition to the old.  That way they kept the power.  Power equals money and respect.(Nothings changed has it}  This is important because people thing that they are following Jesus a man of love when in reality they are following Jehovah which is alright if you are a hebrew and have chosed to follow him.--As the world esculate in religious wars it is my hope an desire to create a space whereas a great questionong will arise in the religions of the world so they can choose to follow a war god or a man of peace.

• shiningstar said on Mar 15, 2007....

  I am very much aware that religion claims that  Jehovah and Jesus are one and the same.  There are many great examples given of the words and teachings of both of them.  Surely all can see that these two entities are extreme opposites. The old war god of the OLD  Testament was the only thing OLD in the lives of the Hebrew nation.  He was the one they called a BURDEN.  He was the ones who made their lives unbearable that is why they left him do many times>  If they had not there would never have been a need to create a covenant for them to return and be rescued over and over again.  Rescued from what??Jehovah,  of course because he made them slaves to other nations.  Jehovah nor his priests could live by his laws.  They broke them before the people did and did far worse things to the people.  Religion tied them together to continue the "eye for an eye"  consciousness that perpetuates religious wars in the name of Jehovah.

• shiningstar said on Mar 17, 2007....

  Clyde I am so happy that there are ,  indeed ,  so many people like me.  I have not claimed the Bible to be a hoax.  I question who wrote it and when and believe the Old testament to be a reasonable history of the hebrew people and  THEIR chosen god. Though a mass murderer it is indeed your choice to follow him and say you are following Jesus.  If that makes sense to you then there is no one on earth that could change your mind as it should be.  Of all of the kingdoms on earth none live life out of a book.  Can you imagine the alligators stopping before they cross a river to see if the book says it is all right???Or the bird wanting to fly having to search the book to see if it is OK?  Or the squirrel stopping it run up the tree with an acorn it has just stolen to stop and open the book to see if it isOK? Life makes perfectly food sense until we get to humans.  It is no wonder Jesus ued examples from those in natural if of how to live instead of humans.  He probably had a hard time finding a human that was living a natural life and not always looking in the book to see what,  when and where to be or do.--I purposely took some time before I answered your comment. I do not want to sling Bible verses around like swords.  Life goes on without either one of them in a most wonderful,  enchanting way.  Especially for those of us who live in fantasy. My best to you my friend.  I appreciate your sincerity.

• SeanRenaud said on Mar 17, 2007....

  And if you believe Revelations a Mass Murderer again he shall be.
   
  Though I do agree with your assessment that anybody with a brain cell can tell that Jehovah and Jesus are not the same being.

• Muckraker said on Mar 17, 2007....

  It is interesting to see the emotion religion evokes in people, myself included.  One of the most beautiful things God included in his human creation was a free will.  To those who choose not to believe in God, I say , you are exercising one of God's gifts.  When we draw our last breath it will all be revealed. 
   
  shiningstar:  I respectfully disagree with your assertion the New Testament was created hundreds of years after the death of Jesus.  Most scholars put a great deal of the New Testament being written in the first century AD.  Again if you have different sources, then we'll just have to disagree.

• SeanRenaud said on Mar 17, 2007....

  While many scholars believe the NT was written in the first century AD they are almost universally agree that they were NOT written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John who are the credited authors.
   
  Hell if I'm not mistaken the first four books of the Bible are credited to Moses, who doesn't even survive the second book.

• Corinthian said on Mar 20, 2007....

  fromadistance: Your last remark clearly shows that you read the Bible but don't seem to live it. There's a verse about removing the plank in your eye before pointing out that your brother has a speck in his. Remember that the pharisees could quote scripture left and right but that didn't make them right in Jesus' eyes.

• shiningstar said on Mar 20, 2007....

  I think one has to believe in life and life is a very personal thing.  We come into this life and leave it alone. If one eats,  has sex or washes themselves they cannot run next door and say"how did that feel?" Life is personal and no one can save us from anything. Our beliefs create our reality and if we believe that we are "lesser" so it will be.  Better to identify with jJesus who had knowledge enough and faith enough to tell up we would do greater things than he did because"ye are gods'  just like him.  You rely on death to reveal I steadfastly rely on life to reveal a divine inteeligence that loves all of it's creations because it loves it's own self and we are that self.Every one has a voice that speaks to them and tell them when they are doing something not approiate.  It is allowing that voice to guide us and live in harmony with it that allow the Christ to come forward.

• silverwhisper said on Mar 21, 2007....

  shiningstar, you aren't a traditional christian at all: you're a mystic, aren't you?
  
  ed

• shiningstar said on Mar 26, 2007....

  I certainly am not a traditional anything. When I found out Jesus came to teach not save I got my-------in gear and started to learn what he came to teach.  I am a lover of Jesus but what passes for a Christian I surely am not.  The highest tribute that I can give to any teacher is to learn what they are trying to teach me and do it.

• shiningstar said on Apr 08, 2007....

  As long as one believes that their is a power over them and accepts that belief they will create a power over them be it government or King. The Kingdom of heaven is within,  it is like the mustard seed,  it is closer then your breath.  That is what Jesus said.  We are so deeply loved that all has been given to us and we throw it away in order to follow someone elses creation of powerlessness. Our thoughts and emotion are the creating power within us that is a servant to the wise and a slavemaker to the unwise. A Master learns to focus the power on what they want not what they want. Religion creates the focus being on everything outside of the self and does not teach it's people of the power that pure love has given to everyone equally to create their life with.

• destinydiva said on Jun 01, 2007....

  shining star, I am so totally with you it is untrue!! I was nodding away in agreement with you through out the whole post...comments...replies!
  my first rah!!  is to those who call us who question..........crazy?????  why?
  Because if you think about it logically.....I'm living my life by my rules, I'm actually a very good role model for a true catholic or something!!! all the things your bible tells you to be, I actually am, and I believe I am...... not because I have been misled to swear by the bible or live by the bible.....not because I have been feared in to thinking something terrible is gonna happen if I dont....not because I'm left with no choice but to believe and live by the bible because my parents, church, town,society, nation, generations before me......all say I have to, and they have the power to create this whole followship...they got what they set out to achieve and they use to their advantage to achieve more still.....power....status....wars....churches...rituals.. etc.....
  anyways back to the logic....
  I'm living my life by my rules, my only superior is other peoples feelings, the law, and of course...divine intervention :-)   and i make a pretty good human. If you choose to follow that book, you decide on which of the many different rule books your gonna go along with...and you believe everything you are told about it......then you live your life happily if that makes you happy!!!
  I dont feel the need to start judging your mental status? we are both living the same game......difference is, my minds wide open. I can look further, I can question, I'm not hancuffed to the beliefs installed in some that this is all there is to life.....this way or no way. I don't believe that something which is the foundation of so much power and hatred and war can be the only one to follow.....I think somewhere out there is the guy who didnt do it for fame/status or power....tor out of fear. The guy that just did it cus he wanted to....his bible is being written today, and maybe in thousands of years when it has been instilled in you that it is the one and only true account of the events of the world....i hope that you will keep your mind wide open and still question it.....cus the bibles of the universe are floating around out there....you just have to be prepared to hear an alternative to the norm.....and in my rule book.......not questioning is more crazy than questioning...but i wont knock ya for it...each to there own
  destiny xx
  
  

• destinydiva said on Jun 01, 2007....

  acts 7: 55But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56"Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."
  
  out of the bible itself!!!!!!!!!!
  
  it says stephen saw christ standing at the right hand of god
  this scripture in acts shows that there were two separate entities standing there not one entity jesus and jehova, the 'one true god' of the old testiment are not the same then the sanhedron, the religious court of the day, took stephen, one of the apostles, out and stoned him to death
  cause they said he was guilty of blasphemy it was a hebrew
  idea that there is only one god because they came from the time of the egyptians and babylonians and assyrians etc.
  who all had many gods, a god of lightning, a god of the sun, a god of the oceans, etc. etc. and the hebrews said there was only one god, all the others were just figments so that's why they stoned stephen cause he said he saw a human standing in the most holy place with the one true god, which made that human equal with god.
  making that human a god himself and the hebrews just couldn't accept that
  it was against their religious law but here's the problem
  modern christianity has to acknowledge that christ was human
  but in order for their religion to have any validity at all, christ had to be god and since the christian religion is built on  hebrew religion
  and the hebrew religion says there's only 'one true god'
  then jesus and that 'father jehova god' had to be the same being
  now, they can't explain how that works they just say it's a fundimental truth
  that cannot be disputed they say it's self evident and if a person doesn't believe in that fundimental truth then they are going to hell cause if jesus is just a man
  then they are worshiping a man and they wouldn't have any religion
  and no congregations and no collection plates
  and no senator's ears to tell them how the government should be run and no clout in the community
  you think anyone would revere and respect a priest that worshiped a man?
  would anyone go to a church that preached that we should all try to be like winston churchill?
  
  it's just like the churches
  
  you say that god and jesus are two seperate beings
  and you show them the proof right there, in black and white, in their own book
  and they call you a heritic so who's the sadder?
  they're two separate beings god is what most people call spirit
  and jesus is a human the churches have so many confusing, conflicting
  ideas that people just don't want to put the time and effort into sorting it out for themselves so they let a preacher tell them what the truth is no matter how absured that 'truth' might be. ............now im not judging that.....not out loud anyways :-)
  
  destiny xx
  
  
  as the old testiment says and 'son of man' is how jesus referred to himself
  he got it from isaiah who is considered the greatest prophet of the old testiment
  isaiah did allot of supernatural things and wrote about visions he had of heaven.
  allot like what's in revelations
  
  
  
  
  

• shiningstar said on Jun 16, 2007....

  No I do not say that god and Jesus are two separate beings but what I said was Jehovah and Jesus are two separate beings. Jehovah is an imposter. He taught the people that he was God with the Big G.  He used his power to force them to worship him. He is the evil one and Jesus the good one.(Terms I do not usually use but to clarify for you). Jehovah said he was evil and that he created  evil so one must know that Jesus was not a part of that consciousness.

• shiningstar said on Jul 15, 2007....

  The sad part of this, to me,  is that if we mixed the story of Santa Claus with the story of Little Red Riding Hood must would immmediately point out the places where they make no sense because two stories have been interwoven into one.  Yet with the Bible we seemingly accept this even though it mkes no sense,  people say they do not understand it,  it contradicts it's self and yet so many say that they will follow it anywhay.  Go Figure.  If people ran their companies this way there would be no profits made.

• shiningstar said on Jul 15, 2007....

  To FROMADISTANCE;  Thank you for your post and comments. I will address them somewhat. You say that Jesus taught in the synagoues and that is true but are you unawre that he was drug out by force, taken to the edge of a cliff and almost thrown off of it because what he was teaching so different than what the priest taught the people. That,  my friend ,  is from the Bible. Jesus nor Jehovah was or is Prime Creator or the Source. All are created by the same Divine Intelligence.  I did not say that believers in Jesus "took God away from the Hebrews and turned him into a jealous war-god".  Reread what I did say.  Jehovah says that he is a jealous war-god and in ignorance the Jesus believers follow Jehovah thinking they are following Jesus.  Jesus is not the only"begotten" son of prime Creator.  Where did you come from my friend,  and six billion others of us? All are sons and daughters of the living God.  Living because the Life Principal lives in all of it's creation.  Jesus taught "love ye one another".  Jehovah taught "an eye for an eye". Can you not see the difference between these two teachings and see which one we are NOT following? One produces never ending wars.  The other bring peace on earth.  For you reflection my friend.  Jesus said"ye are gods".  I believe him.  He said that we can do greater things than he did.  I believe him.

• SeanRenaud said on Jul 15, 2007....

  He siad we could do greater things than he did if he believed.  That if we believed we could move mountains.  Are you saying that not one believer has existed in 2000 years?  Not a single one?
   
  By the way if the Bible, even the New Testament worked the way you claim it does you would be able to tear down something that only takes me five minutes to look up and confirm.  If the answers were there you would be winning, your not because they don't.  Thing is your so close to being a worthwhile human being that it is frustration to watch you poison minds.

• shiningstar said on Jul 18, 2007....

  There is nothing to win here but much to lose. For 2000 yrs people have followed the consciousness of Jehovah not Jesus.  Of course if one could just "look it up" it would be easy to discover.  Each teaching that Jesus gave you can "look up" and read word for word.  But there are two teachings to everyone and  the obvious is there for all to read but there is a deeper one that takes personal comptemplation. Look around at the world you live in.  Cannot you not see the laws increasing and taking away more and more people into poverty and prisons? Can you not see how those in power refuse to listen to the people and just keep on doing what hurts our country and its people? The "power over all others"  consciousness is what all believe in and follow.  That is not what Jesus taught.That is the Jehovah consciousness at work whether one is in a religion,  believes in one or not. It is like "In God We Trust" that is on the money.  It is just there whether we consciously see it or not.To change our world we need to understand our beliefs, take them apart and see if they stand up to what we have been taught to believe that they are.

• shiningstar said on Aug 15, 2007....

  It is most difficult to find those who believe as Jesus did and can do the miracles yet miracles happen every day.  There are and have been many Master on the planet who can perform miracles. They do not come to exhibit themselves in order to prove something to the masses. They would never attempt to teach one against their will.  Jesus came and none of his disciples ever got the message and he spent personal time with them. Jesus  kept asking them "do you still not understand?". In spite of that religion made them the CEO's of the religious company and here we sit following their truth instead of the truth of Jesus.Peace

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