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I was browsing some blogs a few minutes ago and I came across this interesting little item (won't say who wrote it because it's not about him/her so much as it's about the ideas encompassed in it):
 
This blogger implied that the reason Christians are better than Muslims is "the fact that I have not heard of any Christians who walk into a crowded place, filled with men, women, and children, and blow themselves and everyone else to oblivion [emphasis mine]. You can mention Timothy McVey, but I do not accept that he represents Christians. He represents people who hate the U.S. government. That would put him more in league with Muslims than Christians."
 
Funny, I don't seem to recall Timothy McVeigh having an imam at his execution, or placing emphasis on praying 5 times a day or avoiding pork.  But, then, I don't recall whether he embraced any particular faith or not--so fine, I won't mention him.
 
How about Eric Rudolph?  Bombed abortion clinics, gay nightclubs and THE OLYMPIC PARK--with people inside them!--because he believed he was doing god's work by killing and injuring people who never hurt him personally.  Granted, he did not blow himself up, but that's probably because he was too much of a murderous, cowardly son of a bitch.  And now he's living out five life sentences on my tax dollars. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Robert_Rudolph)
 
Or what about David Koresh?  Got about 80 of his followers (including innocent children) killed in a violent stand-off with the ATF--which resulted in a gi-normous explosion--because he wanted to sell guns and meth illegally, and practice polygamy with his female followers, and rape their children. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh)
 
Or Jim Jones?  Claimed to be the incarnation of Jesus, Akhenaton, Buddha, Father Divine, and even God itself--and NOT Muhammed, interestingly enough--and trained 909 of his People's Temple followers to commit suicide after he moved them to Guyana to avoid paying his taxes and put a hit out on a congressman. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones)
 
I used these examples before, in "Chuck Norris is a Frickin' Moron #1", and essentially challenged anyone to explain to me and the rest of the internet community how these horrible excuses for people can possibly be "good" examples of Christianity--because I say they're not.
 
And, mind you, this is not to say that all Christians are bad people.  Just like not all Jews are bad, and not all Muslims are bad.  There are plenty of good people who embrace any and all faiths--or not, in the case of agnostics and atheists.
 
But there ARE bad examples, if they do something that is so horrible and offensive that their legacy is permanently stained by it--and people actually bother looking for them after the fact...


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Comments

  • curmudgeon said on Mar 01, 2007....
    I too don't judge one religion to be better or worse than any other on a moral scale.
     
    However, if I were to do that just for the sake of argument, you've cited - what - three examples, two of whom are religious kooks that YOU label "Christian"? Just because some guy takes up bible and cross and preaches to a following doesn't mean he's Christian. These were false prophets and it's offensive that you in your ignorance attach these men to the myriad branches the Christian Church has grown over the years.
     
    I suppose you could pull out the old tired and long past Crusades, Inquisition and Conquest of the Americas and the decimation of the Native Americans. But that would be reaching back a couple hundred years, wouldn't it? I guess I'd have to come back with the Moor conquest of Spain, Genghis Khan and the rise of the Ottoman Empire. Maybe we can get into Christian Nazism and the complacency of the Pope during WWII, but gee, then what about all those American and British and French Christians who fought the Nazis and liberated Western Europe? Sounds like a wash there.
     
    In sum: you have cited just three recent examples of what you call "Christian" terrorism.
     
    I can cite 19 on 9/11 alone. And more in Lebanon, Yemen, Kenya, Tanzania, WTC 1, Munich, Frankfurt, Madrid, London, Manila, Mumbai, Bali, Russia and the list goes on.
     
    I haven't even gotten started on Israel.
     
    Your point is well taken, but for one, please don't associate religious suicide cults with mainstream Christianity and please don't even try to equate a handful of demented abortion bombers the millions of jihadists out there.
  • bloc said on Mar 01, 2007....
    "two of whom are religious kooks that YOU label "Christian"? Just because some guy takes up bible and cross and preaches to a following doesn't mean he's Christian."

    Can't the same be sad of muslim terrorists? Who are YOU to label them muslim. They aren't real muslims and are following false beliefs.

    You're really falling prey to the same double standard as alienated.

    some food
    for thought
  • bloc said on Mar 01, 2007....
    "Christianity and please don't even try to equate a handful of demented abortion bombers the millions of jihadists out there."

    I've been thinking about this some more. First, there is more than a handful of nutty christians. Second, does the number really matter? Your saying that abortion clinic bombers aren't following the real message of christ. What if someone said that jihadists aren't following the real message of the koran? What does the quantity of nutjobs have to do with the actual religions?
  • BlueHotRage said on Mar 01, 2007....
    Mr. Crankypants:  I don't know if you checked the link for Koresh, but there are still followers of his alive today who think that he will come back to earth, and they are still waiting for him.  Granted, it's not all of the Branch Davidians (because even they can't agree with each other on everything), but last I checked it was over 20 people.  That's a lot of "kooks," as you call them.
     
    bloc:  Thanks for the link to the Jesus Camp movie.  I saw it on Google video a while ago.  Yipes.
  • agentPit said on Mar 01, 2007....
    Two words say it all: 'No GOD' or 'No ALLAH' Religions are all created by men on the excuse for supreme power. In the ancient era, people are primitives. Only way to control them effectively is through the pretext of 'supreme mysterious unknown'. In modern world, some lunatic like David Koresh, Jim Hones use it as per personal gain, havest  from the weak and stupidity of human nature. They all well understand that truly there isn't a GOD exist, else they wouldn't dare to do what they did. Same case in Islam, Bin Laden, Ayatollah Komennei of Iran knows that there isn't an ALLAH around, all created by a liar Mohammad. Otherwise they would have scare of repercussion of killing innocent, direct or indirect. Christianity has a history from from the beginning of being a corrupted cults then evolved into religion because of it's sizes. Same as Islam, a hand with sword and the other with Koran. To keep their head stay alive, most select the hand with the phoney book then evlove into religion due to members count by the millions. If there are truly a GOD or ALLAH, whatever you call it, men will not murder another and dare not even dare to challenge. The almighty will know and nothing could slip through his/her fingers. :)
  • BrenneeLee said on Mar 02, 2007....
    There are extremists in every religion, and always will be.
  • husbandhater said on Mar 02, 2007....
    wow a person of conviction I admire you Blue!
  • SillyMommy62902 said on Mar 02, 2007....
    Blue--I saw the original post that you are referring to and wanted to reply to it in a similar manner like you have done.  But I was afraid it would be wasted effort, as most people who call Muslims a violent and horrible population obviously have a very VERY narrow view and it's very likely that the person who wrote the original post is unable to think for him or herself and is probably just regurgitating what they've heard from other "sheep" regarding Muslims.

    Every religion has its bad apples.  Christianity has certainly had its share and continues to produce certain lunatics who are into killing people.  Religion, in my opinion, is a way to help a person find peace within themselves and with their neighbors.  There should not be violence involved at all.
  • silverwhisper said on Mar 02, 2007....
    i don't know how i missed this one, blue. well said, sir!

    ed
  • lambovet said on Mar 03, 2007....
    Bhr- We don't have to research ancient history to find ill effects of religious extremism in government. George the W may not be a religious extremist, but I believe his pandering to the Right wing of American politics is where religious extremists garner their biggest supporters. The cabal that gave us 'shock and awe' were not acting in the best interest of the many Christians in the West. Neither do I think that the people who brutally beat prisoners detainees, or whatever are imbuing Christian principles. Further, New Orleans residents begged for help for days. Where was our Christian government then, or now for that matter?
  • ALIENated said on Mar 03, 2007....
    I did not say that Timothy was a Muslim. I said he was basically on the
    same page. Do you deny that millions of Muslims hate America, or at least
    the U.S. government? So did Tim. 
    
    Every time people like bloc and Silverwhisper and I guess you speak about
    these things you demonstrate to most of us how little you understand
    Christianity and Christians. Some bad people claim to be Christains and
    that they do what they do in the name of Christianity. The Quran commands
    Muslims to kill all infidels. Am I wrong about that? I have not and will not
    read it. Why should I? I read the accurate word of God. 
    
    When I see Muslims marching up and down the streets, calling for terrorists
    to stop what they are doing, and showing their support for American, then
    maybe I will change my way of thinking, but probably not. To be a Muslim
    means promoting Islam any way possible. Promoting Christianity means telling
    people about Jesus and letting them decide for themselves. Take a trip to
    Saudi Arabia, Iran, or Syria. See what kind of freedom of religion those places
    offer and compare it to America. Let me know how many Christian churches
    are being built there and how many are protected by their law. Christians do
    good to hang on to their heads there. Man I get tired of this bull.
    
  • silverwhisper said on Mar 04, 2007....
    don't be a doofus, alienated. how the hell can you possibly claim to understand what muslims think if you proudly announce you will never read their holy book? wouldn't you mock them for thinking they understand christianity but insist they will never pick up the bible?

    i lost some respect for you there, alienated.

    ed
  • ALIENated said on Mar 04, 2007....
    Now we are even. I do not have to read the book. I see the actions. That
    is enough for me. Have you read their book? Did you need to, to understand
    them? Stop looking at trees. See the forrest. That is all I ask.
    
  • silverwhisper said on Mar 04, 2007....
    sure, you're looking at the actions of a few and extrapolating that across the rest w/out any idea as to how logical that really is. that's sad, alienated.

    ed
  • SocialPenguin said on Mar 05, 2007....
       The fact is that there are a lot of crazy, murderous people out there, and religion can provide a nice little excuse for people to justify their insanity (not an anti-religion statement, just an observation).  These people would be killing in the name of something else if there were no religions.  Stop trying to blame the murder on the religious beliefs and start blaming it on the perpetrators.
  • bloc said on Mar 05, 2007....
    @alien
    "Take a trip to Saudi Arabia, Iran, or Syria. See what kind of freedom of religion those places offer and compare it to America."

    This is true, but we don't have our freedoms because of christianity. In fact, the religious right are the ones most intent on removing freedoms particularly sexual ones. Notice that many of the insane muslim laws revolve around sex as well. I would argue that america is free despite christianity.
  • lambovet said on Mar 05, 2007....
    The nineteen people who were killed in Salem, Ma., in the 1600's, they were Muslim? Refresh my memory, what exactly did they do to deserve death? And, oh yes, what religion were they and their accusers? I guess I got lost on my way to the Middle East. Osama bin Laden was trained by the United States. Saddam Hussein was provided weapons of mass destruction to fight the Iranians. The Shah of Iran was installed as ruler of Iran after the British and Americans overthru his predecessor. Friend, the entire population of the USA should be getting tired of this bull but we're not. We insist on bragging about our strength on the world stage instead of seeking solutions to global issues.
  • ALIENated said on Mar 06, 2007....
    Actions of a few? Thinking that is sad. I think America was founded on 
    Christian principles. If you deny that then that is also sad. However, you
    are right that we are free now and not because of Christianity, but 
    I am saying if we let radical Islam continue to spread, we will not be free
    for long. I am saying that comparing Christianity and Islam is like comparing
    apples and oranges. Christianity and Judaism are tolerant of other religions.
    We think they are wrong, but we are tolerant. Islam is not tolerant of other
    religions, which is why I say take a trip to Saudi Arabia. Why would flaming
    liberals such as you be so apologetic for such an intolerant religion? The only
    thing liberals are truly against is intolerance.
    
    
  • D6fer said on Mar 06, 2007....
    The bible says : beware of false prophets....I would say that these men fall under that title.....which means they are not christians
  • silverwhisper said on Mar 06, 2007....
    liberals oppose injustices, which is why bloc keeps talking about torture, alienated.

    ed
  • truthsayer said on Mar 06, 2007....

    I bet it is safe to say that you don't watch "24" , huh ed?

    False prophets, false christians, false teachers...all abound in Christianity----which is a RELIGION, by the way...NOT GOD HIMSELF. 

    Liberals oppose unjustices ed???  Geez man.  I oppose injustices.  Most people, Christian or not, oppose injustices!  That's kind of a sweeping statement, isn't it?

     

     

  • silverwhisper said on Mar 06, 2007....
    truthsayer: sure, it's a sweeping statement. i figured one sweeping statement deserved another in response.

    ed
  • bloc said on Mar 06, 2007....
    @alien
    "I think America was founded on Christian principles. If you deny that then that is also sad."

    This is true to a degree. Most of the founding fathers were deists which is very different than your christian beliefs. Also, they created america to be inclusive of all including non christians and they intentionally created rules to prevent government and religion from having much overlap. They did not intend america to be a christian nation.

    "I am saying if we let radical Islam continue to spread, we will not be free for long. "

    I completely agree that we need to stop radical islam from spreading. We tend to disagree about how to do that. I believe that many of Bush's policies have pushed more moderate muslims towards radicalism.

    I wish those of us on both sides could understand that we all want what is best for america and that it's good for us to disagree and debate. I wish we could do it without the vitriol which we've all been guilty of.

    "Christianity and Judaism are tolerant of other religions. We think they are wrong, but we are tolerant. "

    You may be, and most christians may be,  but all are not. Read truthsayers comments here for an example.

    "Islam is not tolerant of other religions,"

    This is where I can't understand why you don't see my point. Some christians are not tolerant of others. Some muslims are not tolerant of muslims. There are probably more intolerant muslims than christians (probably by a lot), but ALL muslims are NOT intolerant.

    We need to stop the spread of radical islam as you said, but calling all muslims evil and intolerant will only push moderate muslims toward radicalism. Please consider the negative aspects of generalizing the way you do.
  • kruuyai said on Mar 07, 2007....
    Just marking to follow this.  Good topic, BlueHotRage.  Nice comments, lambovet, bloc, Social Penguin, AgentPit and truthsayer.
  • ALIENated said on Mar 09, 2007....
    
    http://www.soulcast.com/post/show/46352/Disclaimers#
    
    
    See my first disclaimer. I speak based on those disclaimers. As a Christian, I am
    commissioned to spread the word that Jesus is Lord. As a Muslim, people are
    commissioned to spread Islam, by force if necessary. Is that incorrect? As I
    said I have not, and will not, read their book, but I have heard many quote it
    and its mandate to kill all infidels. I heard an ex-Muslim on the radio the other
    day confirming everything I have said about radical Islam. I would tend to
    believe an ex-Muslim over you meatheads. Like Mormonism or Jehovah's
    Witnesses, the common Muslim believer probably does not follow the hard line
    required by their "religion" and its leaders. I doubt that some Mormons even
    know what their religion is all about or what it is founded on--a bunch of
    weird stuff fabricated by Joseph Smith. A little internet or library research
    will quickly show anyone with a brain what a crock that it. The life and 
    writing of Mohammad is not too much different. Again, do a little looking 
    into that with an open mind.
    
    
  • silverwhisper said on Mar 09, 2007....
    at whom is your little diatribte directed, alienated?

    ed
  • ALIENated said on Mar 11, 2007....
    All you meatheads.
  • silverwhisper said on Mar 12, 2007....
    god but i wish you would learn how to take your own advice some day, alienated.

    ed
  • BlueHotRage said on Mar 28, 2007....
    BrenneeLee:  My point exactly.
     
    husbandhater:  Thank you very much--and I'm glad you've gotten something out of my writings.
     
    SillyMommy:  Yes, that's true.  And thank you for stopping by.  :)
     
    ed, lambovet, SocialPenguin & bloc:  Always happy to hear from you guys any time.  :)
     
    And most importantly...
     
    To the person who's blog I quoted and refuted:  Other than my initial stumbling upon your post--to which I have done my best to politely disagree--I have never felt otherwise inclined to read anything else you've had to write.  Similarly, you also have the same free choice with my writings.
     
    You don't like it?  DON'T READ IT.
     
    In fact, I also took it upon myself to avoid commenting on your post, and all of your other posts I chose not to read, because it's not like you'd even care about what I have to say, anyway.
     
    And, hey, it's not like I'll ever have to read or comment, since you apparently have no more posts.
     
    Whatever.  I've got bigger morons to slap down.

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