• rochella said on Jul 03, 2006....

  I notice that too. I'm currently struggling with my faith in Christianity, but I really think that I'm making progress. I believe in God, and I'm starting to feel His love for me with each passing day. I don't understand why anyone else wouldn't want that.

• anonymous said on Jul 03, 2006....

  I grew up christian and turned away from it when I actually read the bible and tried to make sense of it. In the OT god is a petty bully. In the NT you get things like "gouge out your eyes when they cause you to lust". the other reason is that there is nothing to make me believe. I see no evidence of god and when I look at the church all I see is hypocrisy.

• visigoth said on Jul 03, 2006....

  I was raised a Methodist, but became an Atheist at the tender age of 12 just becasue Christianity didn't make much sence to me. To make a very long story short, over the next 7 years or so, I experienced the metphorically "dark night of the soul" (or nay other term you wish to use) and finally emerged with a different understanding. At first I looked at the religions of the world and found that they had the same basic core values, and decided that this meant they were all they same, and therefore equally false... But then I began to wonder if maybe it meant they were all equally true. My basica conclusion has been that God has revealed Him/Herself to all people of various cultures, creeds and understanding throught the world at various times and place. The difference between the religions, in my own humble opinion, merly reflects the way different cultures interpreted the word of God once they received it.

• lidstrom82 said on Jul 04, 2006....

  Thank you all for your responses so far. Rochella, stay strong in what you believe. There is a light that is coming for the heart that holds on. Anonymous, I am plowing through my reading of the Old Testament, and I'm just about done with Leviticus. I have noticed the "bullying" kind of perception that God has. At the same time, considering the things the Israelites were doing wrong, God was justified in His anger, though I don't think anyone of us could quite understand the exact situation thousands of years ago. Something to keep looking into. There is indeed lots of hypocrisy in the church. But there is a genuine, true side to Christianity. I hope more and more people see it because it enriches and turns around lives that were left for dead. visigoth, I'm going through a time of questioning and have had a "dark night" or two...whatever I learn, or believe, it's gotta be because I chose it, not because I simply accepted as I was told. At least one religion out there credits Jesus as a prophet or teacher that went in line with that religion's teachings. The problem with that is that Jesus claimed that no one could know the true God, the Father, except through Jesus Christ. In short, the Bible is very clear that Jesus is the only way to eternal life. That definitely makes it very hard for other religions to try and assimilate Christian teaching into a larger religion. You have some good points about how cultures interpret the Word of God differently. For example, an artist can paint the Virgin Mary similar to many other depictions of Mary from the Renaissance. However, in some African cultures, elephant dung is considered highly valuable, so a painting of a dark-skinned Virgin Mary covered in elephant poo (there actually is such a painting) might look downright scandalous to the western world's church, but in that culture the painting shows great respect. Great thoughts, guys, please continue.

• hotaka said on Jul 04, 2006....

  Hi lidstrom82. First I have to say you are one of the most incredibly reasonable Christian people I have ever heard from and I know there is nothing I can say that will make you want to whack me over the head with a Bible and say I have it all wrong. When someone responded to a comment you made by saying you were just regurgitating what you had been told, I felt offended because I know you are very serious about understanding what you read and what you are told. I think it's very important to question these things so that once you decide to accept them you can feel confident in doing so. I was not raised a Christian. I didn't grow up with Christian friends. Somehow, in high school, I decided that I wanted to become a Christian. I joined the school youth group and started visiting my new friends' churches. I saw many different ways to conduct a service. Some seemed weird or produced for showmanship. Others were more traditional. In the end I chose a Danish Luthern church because a) my family background is Danish and b) the pastor was the coolest priest I had ever met. With him I could talk about history, science and even contemporary music (he liked Leonard Cohen!). Being a Christain wasn't easy. My old friends were not interested in my new-found belief. My mother was very suspicious and worried that I might fall into some cult group. My new Christian friends were very supportive of me but most of them disagreed with me on some important points. I enjoy secular music and I can find lots of positive messages in many songs. But my friends told me that if it was not Christian music then I shouldn't be listening to it. They didn't want to hear Led Zeppelin sing, "Meet me Jesus, meet me, ooh meet me in the middle of the air, if my wings should fail below, please meet me with another pair." They didn't want to hear Black Sabbath sing, "Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say, If they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize, that God is the only way to love." They didn't want to hear Pink Floyd sing, "No more turning away, from the weak and the weary, No more turning away from the coldness inside." I felt they were way too closed minded. It frustrated me. The also wouldn't accept science with regards to evolution, the Big Bang, and geologic history. These things were all very important to my beliefs (in a way it was science that brought me to God because the more I learned the more amazed I was at how clever Nature seemed and i decided there must be a guiding force behind it all) and I tied them in with my belief in God. I gave Him credit for it all and said it made Him sound even more incredible than if he made Creation in just a week. But no one except for the Danish pastor would listen to my thoughts. Everyone else told me I had to read the Bible and believe what was written there. I decided to go alone. I figured I could still believe in God and Jesus without having to listen to those other Christians. One person told me this was wrong. I shouldn't make up my own idea of God but should follow the Bible. But as I learned, Christians aren't the only ones with a concept of God and what He wants for us. In short, I agree with a lot of what Visigoth said. I also found that some things about Christianity seemed realy unfair. Yes, God basically helped people in the OT to slaughter thousands because the victors were God's children and the vanquished were sinners. If God loved everyone equally then why would He do that? Then I thought about people, for example the Dalai Lhama, who are born in a Buddhist country, raised with Buddhist beliefs and become the spiritual leaders of their religion. Should they suddenly start studying Christianity and tell their followers that they have to all become Christians now? If they don't will God send them all to Hell? How about Muslims who believe they are doing God's bidding? What hope does an Indonesian boy from the countryside have in being saved if he is raised to be a Muslim and taught that is the way God wants things to be. So many people are never given the chance to accept Jesus because they learn that things are different. Are they all going to Hell? I can't believe it's the way God would want things. I believe Jesus lived and told us great things about how to live. I believe that there is a great possibility in the existence of a supreme power that created the universe. But I also think Christians don't know the whole story and nobody really does. Basically, follow the Ten Cs and the beattitudes and you will be a decent human being. For deeper spiritual guidance I think most of the world's religions can help. Choose what makes sense to you. If you are wrong, God will let you know one way or the other.

• CITIVIEW said on Jul 04, 2006....

  It's just simple to be a good person, and that is to follow God's commandments. His two basic commandments are to love God above all else and to love our neighbors as ourselves. To follow His commandments is to show our love and respect for God. Free choice is something every person has, hence we can choose to follow or reject God. When we choose to follow God, we acknowledge His greatness and affirm our love and respect for the Creator. Love of God isn't only limited to Christianity. The Buddhists, Hinduists also have similar concepts of attaining higher perfection to achieve unity and closeness to God. The Bible is the complete book of God's word. Any person of any religion for that matter is free to browse and read it to know more about God. Of course anything written in it is subject to the reader's evaluation and is entirely up to him if he will accept it as absolute truth The Old Testament details about the direct communication of man with God Himself. But it has also chronicled of man's consistent failure to live up according to God's expectation of him. Thus, God can be justified, if in the New Testament He has appointed His only Son Jesus Christ to be His sole representative. No man after the OT can now go directly to the Father without passing through Jesus. Jesus acknowledges this further in saying "Whoever has seen Me has seen the Father and Whoever loves Me also loves the Father." God has sent His Son to be his earthly representative, so that it will be easier for manikind to accept that there really is a God in Jesus Christ who was born man of human bones and flesh. Despite this living witness who walked the earth to give testimony to the Father, mankind not only refused to accept Jesus as the Son of God, they even reject Him and put Him to death to the point of Crucifixion. The resurrection from the dead and the Ascencion to heaven of Jesus validates the magnanimity and great love of God for all of us. Still, because of our free will, it is up to us if we choose to follow or reject God. I don't think that there is nothing else in the world that can be done for people who refuse to believe or accept the existence of God. As they are entitled to their own beliefs, no amount of miraculous persuasion can convince them to change their mind since it is their heart they will follow. No, God doesn't fail His followers. He is a loving, kind, merciful and benevolent Father who is more than happy and willing to help because His love for us is unconditional. But how is God able to help if one refuses His help. I'm reflecting on this blog from the point of view of an ordinary man. Christianity or not, the absolute truth is that we have a loving Father in God who hasn't given up on us, who is still trying to reach us, and who still loves us despite of our unworthiness. Anyone irregardless of creed or religion is welcome to go the Father through Jesus Christ.

• balaspa said on Jul 04, 2006....

  I think for me it was not losing faith in God. I believe that God is th ere, but what I lost faith with is people. I cannot, and will not, believe that there is only one way to believe in God and if you don't believe exactly what everyone else believes then you are condemned to some horrible fiery place for eternity. By that thinking all of the Jews killed during the Holocaust are there and so would most of my friends. I think whenever you put people into the mix you muddle things up. I don't understand why some biblical books became official and others were dismissed. I don't understand much of what people do when they think they have more of an understanding on what God is and what He thinks. I think that God is beyond our understanding and so I think organized religion is a problem because people are involved.

• silverwhisper said on Jul 04, 2006....

  lidstrom: my spiritual journey's been an interesting one but probably one you've heard many times before. i was raised in a non-religious home but when i was in 10th grade, my mother was born-again. from that moment on, the house was different. she was happy again, which i hadn't seen in a long, long time but as an adolescent as i was at the time, i was fully amidst teen rebellion and rejecting what my parents believed. so although i was baptized, etc., i fell away from that path. as a reaction to my mother's conversion i became an angry atheist (read: anti-christian). it took me some time to moderate that w/ some more exposure to philosophy and theology into agnosticism. i believe that if god exists, his or her existence is unknowable. i now find discussions of theology very interesting as i can approach it from a somewhat different perspective than many readers. ed

• georgepaint said on Jul 05, 2006....

  I too noticed many christians waning. I started studing all kinds of religions and mysterious ways as I followed Joshep Cambell's mythology theroy. All myths, legends and stories are real but changed for those that need to hear it to relate... oh well, yes, I'm a christian but we were limited by groups of people deciding how we should know of the Gods. www.sacred-texts.org I believe is the web site I frequent. I studied some ancient texts translations that are older than the bible writings that tell of Gods who got kinda nasty and one God, sent them away and became our only God... for the time being. This text was discovered in south america and many were distroyed by missionaries... chuckle of course. I'm not allarmed. Why not? Well, God is more than I can imagine so I don't think he/she/she/he has much need for me to save all the texts. We just start over with blogs! chuckle.

• lidstrom82 said on Jul 05, 2006....

  From everyone's responses, it appears that it's not so much people losing faith in God, it's that people in the church was the main catalyst. Judgmental, fire-and-brimstone Christians. I listen to Led Zeppelin, hotaka, and that already puts me in the Christian minority! I read the Harry Potter books, and that's frowned upon by some (NOT all) people in my church. And - gasp! - I listen to rap and R & B occasionally. These things MIGHT affect a Christian in a bad way, but to assume they are evil in themselves gives them more power, and before you know it, conservative Christians will condemn media that they've never experienced, simply because they assume it's evil. When we condemn/fear something that isn't evil itself, it's giving power to it because we fear/hate it. It's just like superstitions - walking under a ladder does not give you bad luck, and being born on 06/06/06 last month doesn't make your child disadvantaged somehow, but people still avoid things like that. When we do that, we give power to meaningless things, and open the door for the less noble spiritual forces out there to mess with us. That addresses alot of Christians who judge fellow Christians for the media they listen to. The HEART of a person and how they know Jesus Christ personally is the single most important thing, not banning Harry Potter from schools, and certainly not judging a fellow Christian for reading them.

• silverwhisper said on Jul 05, 2006....

  lidstrom: the examples you cite in your last paragraph are to me people who've chosen to make their faiths subservient to their egos. :> ed

• hunter_boyce_chandler said on Jul 07, 2006....

  Lidstrom, my friend...over the past few days and in my conversations with you and MaggieMae I've let slip probably a little more of my story than I intended to. Mine was an intellectual de-conversion that took place over a ten year period of intense anthropological study. The fact that some Christians really don't understand the tenents of their own belief is of no concern to me. Likewise I am not upset in any way that Christian History is bloody and shameful. I also am not swayed by the fact that good people within the Christian family have somehow managed to overcome the religion to actually do good and kind things. I applaud you for your obviously heartfelt faith and wish you well.

• twist said on Jul 07, 2006....

  I am still a Christian, but I consider myself invited to comment. All of the previous comments are very interesting and insightful. They show a number of the doubts, many people struggle with. Most, if not all, of the negative comments really refer to people, not to God, because ipso facto there can't be anything negative about God, or He would not be God. I spent the first 39 years of my life as agnostic despite having been raised in a traditional church. Unfortunately "the church" is a very poor reflection of God's love, and that was for me the turning point. When I realized that man is by nature bad and none of us can be good enough to be acceptable to a Holy God, and that in His wisdom He provided a Savior, and that we can only be saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and not by anything we do, it made so much sense to me that I had to be honest to myself and accept that sacrifice on my behalf. To all of you who are concerned about the books you read or the music you listen to, don't worry about those things, and certainly don't worry about those who criticize you for it. That is not where it is at. Submit yourselves to God, read His word and don't worry if you don't understand everything. Be open to what He wants to show you. You will find that it is the most exciting life you can live. It is not easy, there will be rejection. That goes with the territory. To hotaka: You may enjoy reading Hugh Ross' book: "The fingerprint of God", whether you afterward agree with his conclusions or not To lidstrom: Keep it up, brother. It's not always easy. Discussions about what happens to Buddhists, Hindus etc. who have never heard of Jesus don't lead anywhere. God is a God of love, and I for one am persuaded that He will not unjustly condemn anybody. To whom much is given, from him much will be required....

• davaoguy said on Jul 08, 2006....

  I grew up in the Philippines -- the only country in Asia that is predominantly Christian. I consider myself blessed for having been raised from Christian family. I could say that my Christian training has ignited me to seek more of the truth. So I sought the teachings of other religions, I consulted what science has to say, common sense has been my constant companion. Today, I don't have a religion anymore. And I don't mean to say I never believe in a GOD to do so is to display stupidity. I think one doesn't need to be religious to be with GOD.

• lidstrom82 said on Jul 10, 2006....

  Hey hunter, thank you for the comments and sharing where your life experience came from and what had happened in the past. It hasn't been the easiest to trade beliefs back and forth, seeing's how they can be quite different, but I value your ideas, your willingness to share your past, and the respect you have showed to me and to maggie has been good. I admit that some comments of yours left me wondering where you were coming from - were you speaking the blunt truth? Were you being hostile? Was it a putdown? The last comment cleared the air quite a bit, so thank you. Even though Christianity was proven wrong in your life, I encourage you to continue to love the ones around you, even though some of them will try to cram it down your throat. My friend, let's keep on learning. There have been some good questions raised in this blog. Especially the question of what other religions serve. If someone is born and raised in Islam, people outside of it might be considered unrighteous. If you're born in Japan, your life has elements of many religions in everyday life. How can one religion reach all of them? Especially the religions that claim to be the true one? One more thought: to acknowledge God has to include the existence of the devil. The greatest villian is always behind the scenes, deceiving everyone to the point where they blame each other instead of the villian himself. Many are angry at God for failing them, or for allowing tragedy to happen. But the devil is real, and is everything and anything that goes against God. If he's pulling all the strings to ruin our lives, and we face hardship and go through sickness, losing loved ones, losing a job, being told lies...if he does all this and we don't realize it's him, we go and blame God, because He can "do anything if He wants to". Sometimes He doesn't immediately restore or heal us, but what God does is take the evil that happens and turns it into our greatest triumph. That is the hope I personally have. I'm deaf in one ear, am the black sheep of my family, and struggle greatly with confidence from past hurt in close friendships. It's funny how a 10 second memory can leave a 10 year scar on us. I have no answers to any of them, and despite many prayers to be healed, nothing has happened yet. But the reason I still believe is that with God, these things are bad, but I have hope - if I walk away, I don't have ANY hope. You're right twist, it isn't easy, but God never promised sunny skies and no problems if you followed Him. If we don't go through the tests of life, and endure through them, we don't have a testimony of a rewarding life in God. I share all that simply to state why I STILL believe - as hard as it truly is, the rewards are coming.

• twist said on Jul 10, 2006....

  wow, lidstrom, I appreciate your candor, and I trust that it will help you overcome the consequences of the hurts you have experienced. Don't give up on your healing. I have seen many healings, but they usually happen when you least expect them. I believe, the way it works is that some day God creates faith in your heart, and wham - you get your healing. Keep praying and reading the word of God, because faith comes by hearing the word of God. I know, that God will bless you.

• hunter_boyce_chandler said on Jul 10, 2006....

  lidstom, someone named "indian" just stole this blog.

• twist said on Jul 12, 2006....

  lidstrom, I have been thinking about you, and it occurred to me that it would probably be very good, if you had a strong support group. Do you? If not, try to find a few solid men in your church, that you could lean on. Everybody needs support, but particularly someone with a background of being the black sheep of the family. That probably means, that you had a lot of negative input, and a good support group would be the best vehicle to overcome those effects.

• stark said on Jul 12, 2006....

  "But the reason I still believe is that with God, these things are bad, but I have hope - if I walk away, I don't have ANY hope." I don't consider myself any particular religion, but religion is an important part of my life. My views lean towards taoism and buddhism so I thought I'd give my perspective on dealing with things. You are here right now in this moment. You have everything you need in this moment to be happy, you are whole. What happened in the past may be bad, may still hurt, but that's life. The sun shines, the wind blows, and you have this moment to live and only this moment to live. You need no rewards to come in the future. You need no hope because you have it all right now. I'm not saying that I'm right and your wrong in your beliefs. I just wanted to point out the difference in perspective from a christian view and my own. I wish the best for you in whichever way it comes to you.

• nospace said on Jul 15, 2006....

  As a former Roman Catholic, It wasn't God that failed me: it was the church. I was continually being told what to think by other humans, despite my God given right to freedom of choice. Since leaving the church, even my view of "God" and "higher power" have changed, and even that has remained fluid. The only "higher power" I can say I truely believe in %100 is: Nature. That's it.

• rahatx1 said on Jul 18, 2006....

  i really appreciate your views lidstrom, even i came across, many atheists, who had converted from Islam and christianity, and tried to explain them my views, i think u have done it better.. remarkbly awesome

• lidstrom82 said on Jul 20, 2006....

  Thank you for all your comments everyone, this has been an eye-opener. I have been praying for real change in my life and I have gotten results. It hasn't been easy, but then again I rarely grow when everything is a cakewalk. I'm growing as a believer, a husband, a son, a brother, all sorts of growth. When religion transcends tradition and taps into a personal, real, good source of power, people can rise above judging others and seek to love them instead. For current Christians, we all have a hard road. But the reward, though unseen, is great. For former christians, you've done an amazing job of opening up about what has happened before. I don't presume to say or tell you anything to sway you either way, but I do wish for perfect, unconditional love in your lives. The kind you can depend on when the chips are down. Lastly, thanks for the kind words toward supporting me. I do have a church small group, and a good group of guys I now work with. My wife is my supporter and encourager, and I can do much greater things with her than I could without her. I have done nothing to deserve any of this stuff, so I count myself blessed. Peace y'all!

• frontliner said on Jul 23, 2006....

  very good blog.. it's so good to see that people can actually be so open to these kind of topics. i like what when davaoguy said "I think one doesn't need to be religious to be with GOD." if you were to pursue a relationship with someone.. with you join a organization to do so? NO. likewise with God, just ask him in prayer and he'll answer to you..

• princesse_ingenieure said on Jul 23, 2006....

  i remain to be a Christian right now but I think it's because of personal experiences which logic can't define, explain or dictate... there was a point where i left church and i hated the rigidities of churches. but i came back because i wouldn't be more likely to find people who are passionate for God anywhere else. i think i stand a better chance finding people who love God in church than at home. i am so amazed at these posts. so many people are seeking God, questioning His existence, bashing and defending the church. but in our everyday lives, we really don't get to talk about it as much as we do here.

• FaithfulDisciple said on Jul 25, 2006....

  Hi there lidstrom. May I suggest you check out out the blog site of numbkris on religious advice please, as it also deals on the same topic you're discussing on this blog. Numbkris is searching for advice regarding Christianity as a personal faith rather than a religion which I feel you are the most qualified to give. Thanks bro!

• FaithfulDisciple said on Jul 25, 2006....

  Hi there lidstrom. May I suggest you check out out the blog site of numbkris on religious advice please, as it also deals on the same topic you're discussing on this blog. Numbkris is searching for advice regarding Christianity as a personal faith rather than a religion which I feel you are the most qualified to give. Thanks bro! This is his post: www.soulcast.com/post/show/7563/Some-religious-advice-please%3F

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