• hunter_boyce_chandler said on Jun 30, 2006....

  Hey bud, cant sleep? Well I think its pretty cruel for "Religion" to treat gays as if they had leprosy. Why is this even an issue unless its because some "Religion" claims they are second class. One of the many problems I have with "Religion"

• silverwhisper said on Jun 30, 2006....

  heh...it's friday, the week's been a bad one, and the mrs and i are sucking down gin and doing our own respective things: me, putzing around online; her, playing a computer game on my work laptop. :> i used to be in touch w/ a former methodist minister who was about as liberal as they come. the man knew scripture cold and could always be depended upon to provide a different take on faith than you might otherwise expect. ed

• hunter_boyce_chandler said on Jul 01, 2006....

  I think there's too much faith in the world and not enough substance. You know why most people would never put in writing or say out loud that they agree with my radical athiesm, even if they agreed with the science behind it? Its because their worried just in case I'm wrong. Its like someone throwing salt over their left shoulder or never opening an umbrella in the house.

• silverwhisper said on Jul 01, 2006....

  my mother was "born-again" as they call it when i was in tenth grade*. she was miserable in her life until then and since, she's been a much happier, much more fulfilled person. for this and other reasons, i cannot speak ill of faith, at least intrinsically, for i have seen how it can sustain a spirit, and as weird as this may sound from an agnostic, it truly is a beautiful thing to witness...at least for me. that doesn't address your point about the nature of pascal's wager and faith/substance--at least, not directly, and i know that. however, given what i've said, i hope you understand that we view the matter differently enough that i'm not certain continued discourse will produce superior understanding. :> ed

• hunter_boyce_chandler said on Jul 01, 2006....

  Hey everyone is entitled to their own obsession.

• GumpyJumptooth said on Jul 01, 2006....

  All I have to say on the subject is in my blog under the heading "Would Everyone Please Leave The Gays Alone?" I'm far too fixated on my own body parts--and what I choose to do with them--to worry about those of the gay community. I assume they're not worried about mine.

• silverwhisper said on Jul 01, 2006....

  oddly enough, i happen to have a very conservative friend who lives in boise. literally. that's just freaky. thanks for stopping by!

• hunter_boyce_chandler said on Jul 01, 2006....

  Silver, I appreciate free thinkers whether they agree with me or not. Grump, Youve got a significant point there.

• redrubies5000 said on Jul 02, 2006....

  I had a couple of things that I wanted to tell you one to compliment you and two to comment on the post itself. I wnated to compliment you for having a decent opinion of gays and gay marriage. As being gay myself that shows me that you have a respect for people and once you have that there isn't anything anyone can say about you. And I would also conclude that you are much more mature than most people who have an opinion about gays and gay marriage as most of them still put their own biased opinion on it. Then I wanted to offer my opinion on the whole thing about gay marriage. I agree that is shoudn't be restricted as it is a celebration of love and committment. But the fact is that it has turned into a battle about money and insurance, tax, and other monetary assests and people are losing sight as to why we even get married, on the gay perspective. So, as of now, I don't support it completely, because people need to get a grip and remember why we actually want to get married and stop fighting about Political Correctness. Thanks

• hunter_boyce_chandler said on Jul 02, 2006....

  redruby, you are amoung friends here. The religeous right are hiding in the bushes. I know I am a pain in the ass. I know I am a significant thorn in the CHRISTIAN bodice. But I find the hatred from the christian community directed at the gay community to be specially irritating and symptomatic of the general rancid nature of the whole fucking religion.

• silverwhisper said on Jul 03, 2006....

  redrubies: thanks for stopping by! i have friends who are gay, and i know how happy they are with their partners. they have better relationships than some hetero couples i know. i appreciate the compliment. thanks. :> hunter: yeah, i've always felt that "christian" opposition to gay marriage is particularly rank w/ hypocrisy. their own bible says that their god walked among the outcasts of society. i think i know where their god would be right now on the matter. for all that they scream it's against their religion: well, so's greed and gluttony, so STFU and lose some fucking weight, asshole. the bible talks about those vastly more. ed

• BeerGuzzler40oz said on Jul 04, 2006....

  you are right about one thing, marrige is a beautiful thing and a wonderful expression of love, but it is also an institution in which the married couple is encouraged to start a family and raise children, i think that children growing up with 2 men or 2 women who are married will have an affect on their minds, telling them that it is natural to be gay when it is one of the most unnatural things one can be. the reason a man and a women get married and have families is to continue the human race and there can be no procreation if the relationship has only men or only women.

• silverwhisper said on Jul 04, 2006....

  beer guzzler, welcome! this is an issue i've discussed practically daily for literally years. i see you're advancing the usual arguments against gay marriage. here are my counter-arguments: 1. marriage is both a religious and a legal institution. understand that gays do [i]not[/i] want to force religions to marry gays: they only want to go to a justice of the peace or those religions who do not oppose it and be married. therefore there is no "threat" to the institution of marriage as you understand it b/c for you, the institution that appears to require defense is the religious one, not the legal one. 2. labeling a thing "unnatural" is pointless and counterproductive. it's "unnatural" for man to fly, but thousands do it every single day. and there's many examples of homosexuality in the animal kingdom. so can we dispense w/ labeling things "unnatural" or thinking it actually means anything? 3. your argument about procreation is quite frankly silly. it's not like gay marriage will suddenly lead to the vast majority of people shacking up in gay marriages and abandoning heterosexuality. even the 10% figure previously thrown around has been abandoned: it's probably more like 5%. and why not permit gays to adopt? adoption agencies are crying out for parents, here are people willing to go through the significant hurdels of adoption, and the government says no? ed

• kaaumoana said on Jul 06, 2006....

  So in continuation to the last post. Gay couples should not have, or be able to have children, on the basis that they exemplify that homosexuality is "natural".. I come from a absolutely straight family, as well as many of my friends. So honestly, any child from any family, has the ability and the choice as a human, to be the best heterosexual or homosexual person they can be. and on a seperate subject.What of the homosexual couples that adopt orphaned children. Where do you think those orphaned children come from. Definetly not a gay couple. They wilingly and in some states illegaly adopt children, from all backgrounds, that straight families that are allowed by law to marry to procreate, and raise happy families with a welfare check comming each month.

• GumpyJumptooth said on Jul 06, 2006....

  >>Gay couples should not have, or be able to have children, on the basis that they exemplify that homosexuality is "natural".. << What's the difference between a gay couple and a hetero couple that's unable to have children? By your description above, they are identical. I guess God hates them both in your world?

• silverwhisper said on Jul 06, 2006....

  kaaumoana: i'm having tremendous difficulty understanding what you're saying. can you clarify? homosexuality [i]is[/i] natural: it's been documented in over 1000 animal species at last count, IIRC. i reflexively lower my opinion of someone's intellect when they start throwing around the word "unnatural" in such discussions. gumpy: thank you, an excellent point very succinctly expressed. :> ed

• whatif said on Jul 19, 2006....

  gay couples don't want the marriage for love, they want it (besides other reasons) for the protection that the institution of marriage brings along for each partner, and - they are absolutely entitled to that protection! so give gay couples the rights and protection (and obligations) of hetero married couples (long overdue) and the issue "marriage" becomes at least secondary. saying that there is no difference if a child is brought up by a hetero couple of parents or by a same sex couple means ignoring the established facts that the mother and the father as authority figures have very different, distinct educational, emotional, intellectual and other effects on a child. the ground for a child's future behaviour, conduct, social attitude, interaction capabilities etc. is formed by the 2 different sexes of the parents, representing what the rest of humanity (by and large) is about. also millions of children rather naturally learn about the physical differences of women and men by eventually seeing their mothers and fathers naked at home and of course curiously asking questions. that moment is often the start of some form of sexual education of a child, i.e. where do babies come from etc. i wonder if there is no consequence to a child's perception of its environment, when the gay parents start explaining that they couldn't have possibly conceived their child unlike "almost everyone else" out there. some enormous challenge to gay parents and massive potentially traumatic experience to their child. the quick-at-hand argument that there is so many children out there that are orphans or for sometimes tragic reasons free for adoption and it were still better for them to grow up with gay parents than with no parents at all simply stinks. this is not a near-perfect fit!

• silverwhisper said on Jul 20, 2006....

  whatif: IMX, gays want marriage also because of love, just like anybody else. that's why you'll see gay commitment ceremonies. i don't know the source of your notion that there's huge differences b/n children raised by gay parents vs straight parents but it isn't supported by any reputable study. while you're free to entertain whatever opinions you like, you should avail yourself of the benefit of information for the basis for such opinions. ed

• rainsallday said on Jul 22, 2006....

  There are tons of debates on this subject, all very informative and interesting. I find this whole discussion very interesting. My ex and I would ponder why do gays even exist? If it is so wrong, according to God, then why are we here at all? Yes I realize God did not intend for there to be murderers and rapists either, so what? And can you really compare decent human beings to murders and rapists. Oh my, the discussion goes on and on. My main point, is we came up with an interesting notion, (interesting to me anyway). What if gay people are supposed to be here, along with the straight people, to adopt the children that nobody else pays attention to? To pick up the slack, if you will. And if us gays want to get married, we should have the option. If you just look at two people loving each other, and nothing else, how is that a bad thing? That's my two cents. Thanks.

• silverwhisper said on Jul 24, 2006....

  rainsallday: i believe i saw a show by desmond morris that advances a similar theory. it would make sense. ed

• semisecret said on Jul 24, 2006....

  Very well put, my good sir. It is nice to be reminded that there are people out there not taking their priviledge for granted.

• yoho said on Jul 26, 2006....

  I fail to see why this is an issue at all. It won't affect my marriage if a rhino wants to marry a hippo then more power to them. Who am I to decide what constitutes a happy home. As a matter of law gay marriage should be legal. As a matter of morality, religion, or other personal beliefs we are all entitled to our own opinion. And as the saying goes... "opinions are like assholes everybody has one and sometimes they stink".

• purple said on Jul 27, 2006....

  First let me make everyone mad by saying I don't believe in gay marriage. Then let me perhaps redeem myself by saying I don't believe in straight marriage either. I think 99% of married people got married for the wrong reason to begin with. Marriage is hell when it glues you to the wrong person. I prefer the pagan custom of hand-fasting, where you are together for a year and a day. Then you can choose if you want to keep going another year and a day or call it quits. What I've never understood is why it's up to the government to dictate how people live their lives. It's bad enough that the church tries to shove us down the aisle. I do think it's wrong to deny two gay lovers the tax benefits and the insurance perks they should be allowed to claim if they are in a committed relationship.

• fatesblade said on Nov 08, 2006....

  I have one little thing to say to the people who believe a gay couple cannot raise a child/children properly. Most children grow up in single parent families, foster homes, broken homes, or are raised by a family member other than the parents. If you think a person can only turn out to be a "useful citizen" by being raised by his/her biological parents you are sorely mistaken. It doesn't matter who raises the child. The only thing that matters is that there is love in the family. If a gay couple could create a more loving and nurturing environment for a child than a straight couple then I do believe that child should be raised by the gay couple. Sexuality is a minor difference. What's "unnatural" is raising a child to hate.
  

• silverwhisper said on Nov 08, 2006....

  well said, fatesblade, and welcome to my blog.  :>
  
  ed
  

• falsefaith said on Dec 02, 2006....

  I have heard so many freakin people preach that only a straight couple can raise a good child... my response to that is "If a straight couple can raise a good gay child.  A gay couple can raise a good straight child". It seems like these days people are more afraid of  children "turning" gay rather than children turning into criminals. Until every child on this earth is adopted- cared and loved for- the"anti-gay adoption supporters" should shut up and adopt those kids. Someone has to take care of those children, why not let a loving gay couple do it? Are they that hateful that they would deprive a child of a family? Yes, a child in a gay family will be "deprived" on a certain gendered parent, but take the sex of any two parents away and they are still completely different people.  A child with two moms or two dads will just grow up with two different opinions on life - just like a child with a mom and a dad.  No two people are the same, so bringing gender into the discussion is a weak argument.
  
  Anti-gay people should be out there adopting/helping children instead of bugging congress about banning the gay community.
  
  Fateblade: I absolutely agree with you.
  silverwhisper: Thank you for not judging others.
  

• silverwhisper said on Dec 02, 2006....

  falsefaith: that was a very well-expressed thought. i leave judgments to others--i don't find judgments particularly useful or productive, myself. :>
  
  ed

• aliendudeintheuk said on Jun 25, 2007....

  i have no problem with gays.of course they have a right if they want to marry but then the issue of them have a wedding in a church will be a difficult thing to resolve in years to come.The christian church is conversative and hence they wouldnt want to have anything to do with gay marriage.Gays do have a right to marry but then if they insist on having the wedding in a church then i think tht would be for the clergy to figure out.

  thomas

• silverwhisper said on Jun 25, 2007....

  that isn't true of all christian churches, alien--there are a number of protestant offshoots that are OK with it.
  
  ed

• young.voice said on Nov 28, 2007....

  there is no reason in the world why gay people shouldnt get married!
  my parents are gay and have a lot of friends who are gay, of course i am very open minded, and accept them for who they are!  they have EVER right to be married

• silverwhisper said on Nov 29, 2007....

  young voice: as you can see, i completely agree. :>
  
  ed

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