NobodySpecial's tags:
Illegal immigration, one of the many domestic issues the US faces today, seems to me to have a lot of people who don't understand why it is called ILLEGAL immigration in the first place. Some people say illegal immigrants do the jobs Americans won't do and are needed to keep the economy alive. To all those people who say that I say BULLSHIT!
 
*Americans don't do those jobs not because it is hard work, but because the pay is way too low. These jobs usually violate minimum wage laws which are in place for a reason; so no one in this country is forced to work long hours doing back-braking work and still have to live far below the poverty line.
 
*They aren't needed to keep the economy alive. They are needed to keep some food prices as low are now but overall having these jobs paying a half-way decent wage would benifit the economy because more money would be going back into the economy.
 
*Illegal immigrants often don't pay the taxes which every other legal worker have to pay yet still use paying services provided through money raised by taxes which causes an increase in the amount of taxes the real tax-payers pay.
 
*Illegal immigration undermines the hard work and effort legal immigrants put in in order to become American citizens or green card workers.
 
*Some, not all, illegal immigrants come here to work but upon getting paid barely enough if even enough to survive turn to illegal activities in order to put some extra cash in their pockets.
 
*Some of the illegal immigrants aren't even here to permantly live in the first place. They come to sell drugs to the ever growing consumer group here in America. This not only puts more drugs into circualtion here. It increases the amount of violence related to drug trafficing and use in this country. It also increase the strength of these drug cartels in Mexico which use fear, intimidation, and corruption to control Mexican citizens and their government- the very thing many of the illegal and legal immigrants from Mexico come here to escape. A bit of a vicious circle isn't it.
 
*Some come here claiming that the soutwestern part of the United States is historically there's, not only because Mexico may have controlled it at one time, but because they are descendants of the Aztec Empire. I'd hate to inform them but the area they think was controlled by the Aztec Empire was actually controlled by various Native American groups; not by the Aztecs. Plus the Mexican-American war was just that- war- if you lose you lose. Simple as that.
 
To me it seems that most of the excuses to allow illegal immigrants to keep coming to America are meaningless when you take a look at all of the consequences. I'm sure there are quite a few I failed to mention. It is not the American way to allow people to come here illegally. Stopping illegal immigration does not mean a stop to all immigration. This country was built on LEGAL immigration, not illegal.


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Comments

  • copsunited said on Jan 02, 2007....
    Well..gotta add my thrupence..
     
    I worked for Customs and Immigrations for..well YEARS.
     
    First off..we cannot control the flow of illegals because they
    won't let us. ( they being our own Government.)
     
    I cannot ask anyone I suspect of being here illegally for identification.
    I can ask a citizen, in fact demand, identification. yet if the Illegal cannot
    produce ID..tough Shit. !!!
     
    I have been summoned to perhaps 50 incidents where the
    perp was suspected of being illegal...Hmmm was I allowed to
    do anything about it..nope..nada..nix, nine, negative, nil and zilch.
     
    Why were we so fricken frustrated..ask your CONGRESSMAN !!!
     
    They do NOT want us ( well the enforcement groups) to enforce the
    laws. I'd love to tell you of an incident about illegals but it would
    only piss you off. The Illegals ( S. Koreans) were allowed to walk
    from an incident involving 12 million bucks of fradulent goods. the
    two Americans are still serving 25 year sentences. Makes sense??
     
    Well if it makes sense to you..explain it to me.
     
    Here is something else t chew on.  1990.. Lottery for immigration to the US of Archie:  Cambodian 1500. Viet Namese 2000, Philippines 360, Mexico 5,000 etc etc...  Now..get this: England 15. Germany 28, Sweden 12, Denmark 35. Italy 120... where in the fuck do these numbers come from. Who decides these numbers. I never could get an answer. Maybe you'll have better luck.
     
    But as to why they are allowed here.. we dont want to piss off Mexico because they are sitting on 6 billion barrels of oil that we need in the future. Now go figure.
  • Johnowl said on Jan 03, 2007....
    Not only that, but there are too many politicians that are afraid of losing the Hispanic vote if they were to take drastic measures against them.  I remember reading about this cattle rancher whose property was on the border itself.  Then there came a time when he started to notice dead cattle all over his land with burnt out camp fires next to them.  After going through the proper chains of command, he got no results, but a steady stream of rotten cattle that amounted to him losing money because of a government that insisted on pussy-footing on the issue.  He got fed up and hired mercenaries to patrol his property and ordered them to kill what ever crosses and toss the corpses back to the other side.  Needless to say, there were many who met their deaths on his chunk of dirt.  Then Playboy Bunny Janet Reno caught wind of this and had the land seized and that man had to pay heavy fines, if not serve some prison time.  But my point is that our border problem would be much closer to being solved if we were allowed to meet them with closed fists, rather than be forced to greet them with open arms.  It's only evident that a cultural invasion armed with the spear of poilitics and hidden behind the shield of tolerance can destroy a nation.
  • silverwhisper said on Jan 03, 2007....
    note that bush hasn't done squat about immigration in either of his terms, gentlemen. :>

    ed
  • husbandhater said on Jan 03, 2007....
    I think its time to stop saying give us your tired, poor , and hungry b/c we got too many of our own already here. We have to take care of home 1st and then police or worry about the rest of the world. If you come legally and your staying(I mean gonna die here), trying to build a life I'm all for you. IF u'r coming here to welch off our resources and live better in your country and brag about your 2 cars and houses back home then take your kester back there and live on what you've already "stole"( I mean welched ). We all are intitled to a better life but not at the expense of others who have to live and die in this country and have no other place to ( escape ) to. Like I told my EX; go and make your country better so that you don't have to come over here since he complained this country and its inhabitants suck. Some other American could use your job and pension since you plan on escaping back to Panama anyway when you get old and live like a"KING" as they all (varies immigrant groups ) ,say.
  • bloc said on Jan 03, 2007....
    "*Illegal immigrants often don't pay the taxes which every other legal worker have to pay yet still use paying services provided through money raised by taxes which causes an increase in the amount of taxes the real tax-payers pay."

    People say this a lot but I'm not sure it's true. I live in an area with a lot of immigrants and most illegals do pay taxes. They have fake SS numbers and pay all the same taxes and get few of the benefits (social security). They also pay sales tax just like everyone else.

    I also will bet that there are more americans working under the table than illegals.
  • NobodySpecial said on Jan 03, 2007....
    @bloc- I think the statistics are about forty percent of the illegal immigrants don't pay taxes. Another twenty to thirty percent live off welfare. I also have read that the amount of taxes they do pay only covers about one third of services they use. About thirty percent of the population in federal prisons consitst of illegals. (most of this was from a LA Times article).
     
    Of course there are going to be more Americans working under the table (more of them), but I can say with certainty that it isn't even close to forty percent of them.
     
    "They have fake SS numbers and pay all the same taxes and get few of the benefits (social security)."
     
    So does that make fraud right since, afterall, they are paying taxes.
  • willbrich said on Jan 03, 2007....

    I'm not sure in where you live, but in the area where I live, the crime rate is rising because of the illegal immigrants.
  • RollingC said on Jan 03, 2007....
    Anywhere there's poverty and hunger...you can bet the crime rate is going to rise.  That's a no-brainer.
  • SeeingRed said on Jan 03, 2007....
    SilverWhisper - Not quite the facts. Bush has been on the immigration issue for some time. The conservatives in the house blocked him at every turn, via the vote. Bush and the Democrates, wanted a work toward citizenship program implimented, and the house republicans said no! You watch now, with the Dems in power Bush will get it through . So to say he has done nothing is not accurate. Most, if not all conservatives do not want this, Bush however is not a conservative, he is just a republican. Check out his voting record, its not conservative by any stretch of the imagination. NS- I agree with you something needs to get done. But as I have just stated, I fear with the Democrates in power Bush will get this aimless bill through. I do not object to the bill as much as I do, the inability to secure those borders.
  • NobodySpecial said on Jan 03, 2007....
    Isn't kind of ironic that the time politicians of seperate parties actually do work together it doesn't help anything.
  • refugeeboy said on Jan 03, 2007....
    "This country was built on LEGAL immigration, not illegal."

    Baloney.

    The colonization of this country was one of the most brutal acts of immigration ever. While it wasn't "illegal" at the time, it was at times far more immoral than what most illegals do. Most of the Europeans wouldn't have cared if it was illegal, anyway, since they didn't recognize the native governments are legit.

    Then we turned right around and started trying to restrict legal immigration precisely because it "hurt" our economy.

    America's got a lot of great things about it, but we need to face our own history honestly.
  • silverwhisper said on Jan 03, 2007....
    seeingred: i submit that since the president is after all the leader of his party, the burden does fall on him, frankly.

    ed
  • Parman said on Jan 03, 2007....
         NS:  You are right on about illegal immigration.  If the government(they won't because businesses wants the cheap labor) were to punish those who hire illegals severely that would put a big dent in the problem.  Another factor, illegal's children born in this country should not be automatic US citizens. Our leaders are stupid, no wonder we are 9 trillion in debt.
     
        refugeeboy:  Let's talk history, a long time before Europeans set a foot on this continent the native americans were busy making war on each other, practicing human sacrafice, taking over each other's land and we could go on and on.  Sure the Europeans did not treat them right, but I find it a weak argument in today's world.  Ever since the neolithic period man has been taking over each other's territory and slaughtering one another.  Should we quit trying to make laws today because one group of people were dominated by another at one time in their history?  No, we are talking about now. not 400 years ago and before. 
  • Johnowl said on Jan 03, 2007....

      The true fact of the matter is that if the people in power who we pay doesn't fix it, private citizens will fix it themselves through vigilante justice, just like that fellow in one bordering state did in order to protect his livelyhood.  I honestly believe that the only language that they will understand is to see people cross and never come back, while they see buzzards get fat.  All of this politically correct, riddled with loopholes "solutions" only open more questions when they think that it might be the answer. 

      These people know our political structure and use it against us in order to meet their goals.  They know that they don't have to play by the rules.  And also know that it is a much bigger headache to play by them.  So, if they were to meet grim fates upon crossing, playing by the rules won't be so bad.  That's human nature.  Then the "rules" would then be the path of least resistance.

      Everything understands pain.  It is not a very difficult thing to comprehend.  You even get a response from bacteria in a petri dish.  Insert a hot needle, they try to get as far away from the intense heat as possible.

    I, myself have worked in an INS detention center.  It's pitiful how we cater to them with our money.  And they only take advantage of it.  HELLO! HUMAN nature!

  • copsunited said on Jan 03, 2007....
    RefugeeBoy. Your education in American History is sadly lacking.
     
    Prior to the Europeon "invasion" there was NO government here. It was
    a tribal affair with each tribe owning only that land it could defend. Each
    was different only in degrees of power.
     
    Today we talk about "rights". The real diffinition of "rights" are those
    actions we are able to defend.
     
    The earliest settlers were welcomed here by the natives in that they did
    not know, at that time, what huge chages in their own social structure was going to occur.
     
    By the time William Penn established his baronnette ( so to speak) it was already to late for the "natives" to reject the new comers.
     
    For Years we restricted immigration through lottery systems, numbers
    ethnicity etc. It was very effective until it bacame modernized.
     
    The burden now is trying to "stem" the illegal flow. Illegal flow, illegal flow..oh did I mention "illegal flow" of South American immigrants.
     
    If you cannot see the problem..then you are PART of the problem. It must stop inspite of your limited view of the situation.
  • bloc said on Jan 04, 2007....
    @nobody
    "I think the statistics are about forty percent of the illegal immigrants don't pay taxes. Another twenty to thirty percent live off welfare. I also have read that the amount of taxes they do pay only covers about one third of services they use."

    sources please. These numbers sound like b.s. to me.
  • bloc said on Jan 04, 2007....
    @cops

    I think you are painting a weird picture of the european invasion of the americas. We committed genocide plain and simple.
  • NobodySpecial said on Jan 05, 2007....
    Bloc- Here are the sources. Totals of tases paid by illegal immigrants, unpaid taxes, and various numbers. The only one I misquoted was that the taxes cover one third of the welfare used. Sorry it is two thirds.
  • copsunited said on Jan 05, 2007....
    BLOC...of course we commited genocide. Who said we didnt?
     
    Initially the Europeons were welcomed..after that the slaughter began.
    Never..no way have I denied that.
     
    Once we established the country and the norms..so to speak..the
    torts, laws ,mores of our nation..enough !!!
     
    Now we have a situation that is Killing America..America is going to die
    a horrible death because we have so fucking many RIGHTS give to
    every swinging dick that crosses the border..legal or not.
     
    so..if I say..stop it..I mean stop it..that is my opinion..it is not up for
    discussion..I mean STOP it.
     
    If refugee boy is offended..too friggin bad. I am tired of apologizing for being
    AMERICAN.
     
    Frankly this whole load is getting a bit much. A blog that is free to
    offer up opinions etc..but immediately calls into conflict someone else's
    right NOT to read it. They read it and get all fucking bent out of shape...
     
    damn..what a place this has become....JD
  • evillinclinations said on Jan 06, 2007....
    Copsunited: I understand your postion on this, but would like to add one  line. The thin line between rights and laws must be walked softly, as while laws are a necessary component to human co-existence, we also have to strive to preserve the freedoms that our founding forefathers based this country on. 

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