• Jenna said on Dec 12, 2006....

  Yes...SL... everyone has their right to privacy... I think we all need that no matter how involved, close, married to the other person we are.
   
  You are right...we can not be everything to one person...nor should we expect the one person to be our everything. 
   
  I think though sometimes insecurity plays a role in this issue... sometimes people are so insecure that they can not allow that " breathing space". 
   
  But don't we love even more when our partner recognizes the need for our space? 
   
  So to answer your question...yes we all need our privacy... we all deserve our privacy...but if we can somehow be open about it.  Explain the need, but assure the SO...it is no reflection on the relationship.. just a need within us all. 
   
   
   

• dailyachesandpains said on Dec 12, 2006....

  I'm with Jenna.  Well said girl!
  Daily
  

• mobil said on Dec 12, 2006....

  Love means allot of things SL. It means respecting each other.

  Respect is the way we show love for each other.

   

  This means we must allow our mate room to do those things that

  make them happy. Privacy is respecting the others need to

  be an individual as well as a partner.

   

  I think no other word in any loving relationship comes as close to

  defining each others love as the word and act of respect.

   

  If you don't have it, nothing else works and having it means

  everything works. Privacy included

• sweetsoul said on Dec 12, 2006....

  Clearly a person has the right to privacy when they're in a relationship. We can keep our own counsel without sharing our thoughts.  While we need to be respectful of our SO, we aren't joined at the hips, so can have some private time.
   
  Having said that, I'm also a big supporter of a relationship having some privacy as well. Just what that privacy entails may be different for each relationship...discussed and agreed on by the participants.
   
  The difficulty arises when one need for privacy encroaches on another.
   

• lioneljay said on Dec 12, 2006....

  I like what SS said here. I'm deeply protective of my private time and I take advantage of it a great deal. It's not at all an exaggeration to say that my private time - much of it spent online but some in RL as well - helped me fend off a dangerous depression. That said, there are limits to reasonable use of one's privacy and one ought to mind them.

• gingersoul said on Dec 12, 2006....

  I am a jealous person. It seems an odd predicament in this contest. But its not.

  Because, exactly because i was jealous i gave to my ex all the freedom he needed to do things, being with people, going places. Whitout me. I knew he had his time, his bike road trips, his sailing afternoon, his pool tournament....i would ask, he knew there were thoughful behaviors that would have ease my worry for him when he was away... i simply asked him one thing: to be always possible to reach him with a phone call. In case of any emergency. 

  i gave this freedom to him because i needed the same freedom for my self. I always needed to have my private time with my friends, my secluded space in my mind and my life.

  The secret is to discuss the limits, talk about the problems, share and ask ...dont be afraid....controlling doesnt solve any issues, limiting the partner  is sympthom of fear...there is nothing you or your partner can do to box up the minds....

  Thoughts are free like fish in the ocean.

  There must be the desire to be together. Nobody can be the police officer of anybody. We need to choose each day to be together......

   

• anonymous said on Dec 13, 2006....

  Things I believe: 1. Sex is not the highest expression of love; commitment is. 2. Marriage/commitment is not property. 3. Jealousy is always a vice. 4. 'Tis better to have loved and let go than to cling to someone who doesn't love you back.

• silverwhisper said on Dec 13, 2006....

  marking to come back to it. in general i agree, SL, but there's more to it than that, at least for me.
  
  ed

• secretlife said on Dec 13, 2006....

  Jenna:  I'm sure insecurity plays a big part in why someone wouldn't allow breathing space.  In a relationship supposeably built on 'trust', i just don't 'get' why assurrances are required.  My opinion is, if you have issues with your SO's having private time and friends outside of the relationship, then you have trust issues.  No doubt.

  mobil:  I agree with you that if you respect your partner, then you understand that person's need and right to exist as an individual and not just as a partner.  I think it's certainly an act of dis-respect to insist otherwise.  When you take wedding vows, they refer to this as 'honoring'.  But it really is basic respect for another.  That shouldn't be too hard either, considering you 'love' that person, right? 

  SS: I'm not sure what you mean by "a relationship having privacy as well".

  Are you talking two people having private time together? 

  LJ:  limits to reasonable use?  what do you mean?  Like in an online scenario, limiting your time spent there?    I consider my walks to be my private time every day.  I don't think it's unreasonable to have an hour of private time every single day.

         

• lioneljay said on Dec 13, 2006....

  SL, when I mentioned limits, I was thinking in terms of qualitative issues more than quantitative. The actual limits, I think, grow out of a couple's agreements regarding a variety of issues. It's a matter of what you do while in your private time and space rather than how much time you keep to yourself. All couples have agreements about behaviors that are or are not be acceptable and one should honor all such agreements whether in private space or not.
  
  One thing that I have noticed with respect to privacy is that not all couples talk explicitly about their boundaries (or limits). I'm sure it's common for people to think that they're acting within boundaries that their spouse would agree to and then find out otherwise.
  
  When I first started exploring the online world I talked with my wife about cybersex and I found that her definition was considerably more strict than mine. Oh well.
  

• EvilTwin said on Dec 13, 2006....

  O_O
   
  I posted something!  And it disappeared...
   
  Weird.

• silverwhisper said on Dec 13, 2006....

  i believe that a healthy relationship has boundaries. what those boundaries are will be determined by the dynamic of the people in it. for example: the mrs and i keep the bathroom door closed. some things, i don't need to see and i don't want to take her presence for granted. for me, that's an important boundary.
  
  there's more i want to say but i don't want to make this comment about me: i can do that in my own space.
  
  ed

• EvilTwin said on Dec 13, 2006....

  Jenna expressed it all very eloquently...  Well said.
   
  In my current situation, I find it difficult to answer this without sounding like a hypocrite...  I do believe in a right to privacy and private thoughts, as I don't want to intrude on another's privacy.  And I don't try to hide anything from my family and friends.  Unless I know it will hurt them.  
   
  But even then, there is one person I could never keep anything from because she knows me better than anyone else...  With my soulmate, I know I can have my own private thoughts, as she knows I do not wish to pry into hers.  But we have no secrets.  Because of the love and trust we share, there is no need for secrets between us.  And she knows what I am feeling, oft times before I do. 
   
  Allowing someone their privacy and personal space is important.  We are all individuals, no matter how close we are with someone else.  Compromise is a major part of every relationship.  Both parties must recognise that.  And both parties must recognise the need for privacy and personal time...  It's about give and take.  It's about honouring and respecting one's partner and their privacy... 

• missb said on Dec 13, 2006....

  SL,
  
  I totally agree with those 5 things you mentioned. I also strongly believe that everyone is entitled to privacy even when they're in a steady relationship or marriage.
  
  There should still be boundaries like ed said. Too much of me is not good and vice versa. Those we do not share are like a 'mystery' to our SO and some mystery never hurts. It makes him dig for more, using a lifetime to really "know" all about us. That is one of the ways to avoid "boredom" in marriage/relationship. If you reveal too much, the other might lose interest soon enough cause they think they already know everything about you. Just my 2 cents ;)
  
  Cheers!

• secretlife said on Dec 13, 2006....

  Ginger:  my husband has things he does by himself -- he has his own set of friends that he golfs with, another set that he works with, and that he goes out to lunch with or sometimes meets for drinks.  He goes to Florida to visit his brother every year without me.

  I think its important each of us has their own individual lives --

  I want him to enjoy his time and have freedom to do the things he enjoys.  Not all of them are things I enjoy. 

  I agree, that I want my partner with me because he chooses to be, and i do not want my role to be that of a police officer or parent.

  I guess that's a matter of trust as well. 

  LJ:  I think the vast majority of couples don't talk about specific boundaries but simply assume them.  For example, most couples assume cheating is a hard boundary.  The problem is, 'cheating' can be defined in many ways. 

  ed:  that bathroom boundary is quite a good example for me (who needs these graphic examples to relate to).  My husband likes his privacy in the shower -- i respect that.  If the family room is too noisy or busy, he'll often go upstairs and close the door.  Everyone in the house knows to respect that boundary as well.

  ET: I have that same problem with missing comments.  I've been dealing with that for about 3 weeks.  I will type, submit and find nothing or a partial comment has posted.

  Compromise is a key point i think. 

   

  What about situations like going out to lunch with someone?  Or just chatting with someone online?  Does the right to privacy allow for these freedoms as well?

  I know, for example, that I go to lunch with people I work with all the time.  I don't necessarily even mention this to my husband.  It doesn't seem important in the scheme of our lives. 

  Or chatting - and i'm not talking cyber sex or any of that...just chatting.  When you go to your office, you chat with people all day long.  Do you tell your wife about the water cooler conversation?  Is keeping a chat friend secret a violation of some kind?  Is it different than say, a conversation you might have at your desk with a friend during the day?

   

   

• silverwhisper said on Dec 13, 2006....

  to me, it's about intimacy. if the character of the chats or lunch is intimate--and i don't mean romantically or sexually intimate--then that intimacy is potentially an issue. the problem to me of defining what is/isn't acceptable is that if you try to define things by activity, you wind up finding different activities to substitute.
  
  this all goes back to trust, b/c in a romantic relationship, one presumably trusts the other person in it: it's why we have sex w/ him or her, after all, isn't it?
  
  there's a lot going on here that isn't readily subsumed under the word privacy.
  
  ed

• xerendipity said on Dec 13, 2006....

  Everyone deserves privacy!
   
  But speaking of secrecy, the grounds must be valid! Cheating from your partner is no good at all! Just put urself on someone's shoes being cheated. It's not that easy I think.
   
   

• purrrkitten said on Dec 13, 2006....

  I think you have it when you say TRUST is the issue. If you can't give someone their own private time or thoughts, no matter what you say, you obviously don't trust the other person to live their own life without your input. 

  Also it seems to have something to do with control. You can't control what your S.O. is doing when you aren't there. You can't control what your S.O. thinks. If you need control, you have no trust.  

  Without trust, a relationship will eventually smother and die.

  As far as hanging with someone or having lunch with someone, I trust my DH. If he has lunch with his ex-wife, good for him! I don't mind! I know where I stand with him. He knows that all I demand is honesty. If he doesn't want to be with me, I want him just to tell me. I do not feel insecure in our relationship and I know he loves me. I trust him the same way he trusts me.

• mobil said on Dec 13, 2006....

  I have always flirted allot, and I've had some guilt feelings just doing

  that, simple flirting.

   

  Thing is, I think allot of people know when they've crossed the line,

  it's often an emotional line.

   

  Chatting is ok ! And justifying is ok. I want to do a blog on Justifying

  sometime.

   

  Anyway, sometimes things are exciting and we'll justify our actions

  because we want to be excited.

   

  Hell, lunch is great and sharing it with someone is great. Being

  excited or attracted is hmmm exciting while eating lunch.

   

  We can deny an attraction, or something that is more than a simple

  lunch. In our hearts we know the truth. We often don't like the truth,

  we can tarnish our soul a bit if we deny, deny.

   

  I don't know what your point is here and I am rambling all over. Is

  rambling cheating?

• gingersoul said on Dec 13, 2006....

  Having lunch with coworkers, flirting with the grocery store guys, looking around and be pleased to be looked at, commenting on some posts .....all of this is ok because it doesnt involve intimacy. You can even have sex with somebody and i will forgive you. Is cheating, sure, but not that as painful as your partner having a strong intimacy with somebody else, a person with whom he/she shares his/herr deep secrets and expectancies. And you are not there. Its the emotional investment that is dangeorus. If we can share it easily, so where is the uniquiness of a relationship? The specific strenght of a marriage? Why being married? Good questions... How we share our intimacy i think is different for everybody...but when we share it better be ready for any possible consequences. most of all inside ourself. Because if you change, it changes even the dynamic with your partner...because doing so you allow somebody else, in a way, to impact your primary relationship.... Or is it possible to keep our private ourself completely separated from our partner? Not being influenced? I found interesting what Mobil said: justification......

• secretlife said on Dec 13, 2006....

  missb: some mystery certainly can't hurt. 

  ed:  don't you have multiple intimate relationships?  friendships?  i know i do.  I don't know how anyone could define every 'activity' that's acceptable.  i think that would be a foolish approach.  Trust - without it, you haven't a chance.

  I realize i am calling this privacy but you're right, there's more.  I'm thinking about those parts of my own life that I keep private.  And not just from my husband, but from my family and friends, and trying to reconcile if there's something wrong in that. 

• secretlife said on Dec 13, 2006....

  I am sooooooooooo getting tired of this bug in the edit feature that eats half my comments.

   

• secretlife said on Dec 13, 2006....

  purrkitten:  thank you for mentioning control, which is also something ginger alluded to in her comment.  I think in some cases, insecurity in a relationship is what will trigger the need to control. 

  mobil:  i've certainly had lunch with attractive men.  I don't particularly think much about it other than having the thought that they're attractive.  It's all in a days work, you know?  It doesn't mean i'm going to cheat on my husband, it just means i had a fleeting thought that the person at the table is attractive.

  If i do flirt with someone, it's not something i give alot of thought to either.  I don't think there's anything wrong in flirting.  It's human nature.

  Ginger:  in a perfect world, you are correct.  Your SO shares their deepest thoughts with you. 

• BlogObsessed said on Dec 13, 2006....

  I am once again late to an intriguing conversation...so here's my belated two cents. Secret, an eloquent post that hits the nail on the head, I think. I agree with all you say. And I also agree with what others have said about the layers, the nuances of these issues being slightly different depending on the dynamics of a given relationship. Much as it would be great to have a hard and fast set of rules regarding privacy etc. such a thing is ultimately impossible. People and their relationships vary too much. Boundaries that work for some might seem stifling to others. However, I do think that these are issues that couples must talk about and come to agreement on if they want a lasting, healthy relationship. And, this goes for non-sexual relationships as well.

• purrrkitten said on Dec 13, 2006....

  I think the dynamics of all relationships are different too. Some people have very rigid ideas of what's okay and what's not.
   
  Speaking of flirting, both DH and I are consumate flirts. No biggie to us. We know who we're going home with every night. However, I have been in relationships where my 'bantering' (flirting in a group of friends - male and female) has seriously put a bug on my partner. I locked that fun side of myself up for years because if it. Eventually, I resented the fact that he couldn't even be secure enough to trust me when he was standing right there. Hello?  >:-p

• random_moods86 said on Dec 13, 2006....

  well i'm married and i usually just love to share disturbing dreams, whatever i feel, etc with my partner but i could use this post to remind myself that i should have a private mind and not to treat my partner like he's been a naughty kid

• whoisit4 said on Dec 13, 2006....

  Wow. Great discussion. To sum up my opinion:
  
  Privacy: yes
  Honesty: necessary, but doesn't preclude privacy
  Trust: necessary
  Boundaries: yes. May be explicit or implicit.
  Flirting: generally, no, but needs more definition:
  
  Flirting with intent to be unfaithful: no. It defies trust
  Flirting without intent to be unfaithful: perhaps unwise, but allowable
  
  
  Fortunately, aside from a stray glance I've kept from flirting with Faith. Otherwise, I'd be guilty of crossing that line that mobile mentioned. As it is, my emotional status with Faith remains one-sided. I haven't shared with my wife my feelings for Faith and I'm doing my best to maintain trustworthiness. If I'm justifying then perhaps I'm wrong, but at this point I think that you can feel whatever you feel b/c real commitment trumps emotion.
  

• starlightstarbright said on Dec 13, 2006....

  I agree wholeheartedly that it's important for people in a relationship to have their own private time.  Since my family lives out of state, I will once in a while go up to visit them by myself.  My fiance and I know this is necessary for both of us to maintain our sanity.  We love each other more than anything in the world, but sometimes we just need to do our own thing.  Since he works so much, he will use the weekend to wrap Christmas gifts, and he is going out with some friends.  Sometimes even married couples with flawless retionships just need a little time to do their own thing.
  
  My fiance hates shopping, for example, and I love going out and doing things on my own, so neither of us have any qualms with me going shopping by myself or with friends and family.  If you don't have that freedom, you're bound to feel trapped eventually.  We still return to each other, in love and happy;  it just makes you value the time you spend together a little bit more.
  

• CINNAMON~TOAST~CRUNCH said on Dec 13, 2006....

  yah someone go find my ex and tell him that in fact tattoo that to his forehead. that is part of the reason we broke up. he needed to know everything and felt he was entitled to know everything.
  
  secrecy vs privacy... much of that is the same thing or in conjunction... you are keeping private things secret... or any variation
  

• sweetsoul said on Dec 13, 2006....

  SL - that was part of what I meant by a relationship needing privacy of its own but not completely. Clearly you need to have time alone as a couple to enjoy the relationship and so you don't take each other for granted...remembering the days when my children were very young and I mistakenly thought that the 'urgency' of my children's needs always held priority over my husband and I.

  What I also meant though was that there need to be things related to the relationship that stay within the relationship. Just what those things are will be determined by the couple and will differ between couples. Might be money, sex, deepest thoughts confessed...whatever.

• CreativeWoman said on Dec 13, 2006....

  Privacy is important in a relationship.  I think it is a little different than trust, but it becomes entwined with it.  For me, privacy includes the things I don't share with anyone which center mainly around emotion.  I hide my feelings. My privacy does include secrets I don't want to share.  Regarding my husband's privacy, I don't ask questions that I don't want to know the answers to.
  
  Otherwise, I agree with what Mobil said.
  
  CW
  

• shekinah said on Dec 13, 2006....

  Hi Secretlife:
   

  Here's my question for the day-

  Do you have a right to privacy when you're in a marriage or steady relationship?

  Where do you draw the line regarding privacy vs secrecy?

   

  a bit of a ramble here.... lol....I think most people would say yes to the first question..... unless they were in a highly repressive 'arrangement' lol... I find your second question more interesting in that i suppose there could be fine line between what is deemed private vs secret. Like what's the difference, sort of thing.  Very subjective i know... but for me a privacy issue would be centred around my own feelings and thoughts that i either just can't be bothered sharing at that point or don't feel that sharing it would be necessary for some reason (like lack of time or whatever).... and secrets are more along the lines of things you don't WANT the other person to know, cos you are conscious of them being bad/naughty or they hold some shame or soem type of need to hide them... (like spending up on the credit card or something heehe)....
   
  But personally, i would like to think that i could (if i chose to) communicate anything and everything to the person i was with.  The important word being choose. 
   
  It's always got to be a free-choice.  Sooooo, not feeling compelled to tell-all, and also not feeling compelled to keep quiet for fear of ramifications etc.  Just a nice free and easy type of trusting flow back and forth between the partners. 
   
  To be honest, in a close relationship, the more open people are with each other, the more trust and respect and love can develop.  The more stuff that is hidden, the more distance it creates in my opinion. So secrets (stuff you are holding back from talking about for whatever reason) can undermine the whole partnership. 
   
  love shekinah

• rmuxagirl said on Dec 14, 2006....

  I believe a relationship should have it's private time.  My SO and I agreed that we both needed time with friends, and like ginger all I asked was that he was reachable in case of emergency (sometimes he wasn't but oh well).  He had his friends, even though I disliked them and thought they were bad seeds I let him have his time with them as he did with me.  He also didn't read anything I wrote unless I specifically asked him to read it.
  
  I did have a b/f that constantly called me and never allowed me my private time and it killed the relationship (among other things).  Time apart is important but also time together is.  And I think a relationship should have it's private time, just the couple no interferances from outside sources.
  

• kruuyai said on Dec 15, 2006....

  I was going to comment on this, but I got so far off on a tangent that I just erased it.  But yes, we all have a right to privacy, in or out of a  relationship.  I don't get couples who share email addresses.  Do they really think they are one person?  It's really uncomfortable trying to write an email to a girlfriend who shares her email address with her husband.  Some things you just want to confide to her.

• maemae said on Dec 19, 2006....

  Privacy and secrecy are two different things.
   
  Everyone has the right to privacy.  Everyone. 
   
  However, if you are doing something that could potentially damage your SO or your relationship, and you are hiding it from them, that is a betrayal and is wrong. 
   
  You have a right to your own thoughts, feelings, and/or actions.  However, when things are said/done that could affect someone else and you are keeping it from them, that is wrong.

• dyingman said on Dec 01, 2007....

  The wife's purse.
  If she has a little black book of former Chippendale's studs in there, I'll be the last to know.
  

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