i was telling a friend something that happened at church yesterday when my friend registered surprise that i attend church in the first place. this seemed like something that warranted a blog entry in its own right.
my wife is the daughter of a minister. in our church--the same church in which we were married--there are three ministers. our wedding therefore was officiated by all three ministers, including my father-in-law. i should some day blog about my wedding day--it was a pretty interesting set of circumstances.
i imagine that this will come as a surprise to some, given my own oft-mentioned agnosticism. going to church for me is a social thing. it's a formal church service, appropriate attire generally is observed (jacket & tie for men). it's good to see my in-laws, who i generally do like; it's good to see all of these people who've watched my wife grow up; it's good to support an institution that does charitable work.
sure, sometimes i resent losing a few hours of my sunday morning. and we don't generally go more than once/month or so, although until yesterday we haven't been there since summer--we're just a bit behind on our offering pledge.
but you know, it's a relatively minor thing to lose.
ed
silverwhisper posted on Dec 11, 2006
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Comments
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lioneljay said on Dec 11, 2006....
I'm smiling, Ed, because when I go to church it's for most of the same reasons. -
dailyachesandpains said on Dec 11, 2006....
Ed,I never would have thought of you as a someone that attends mass. I don't know why...I was forced to go growing up. I could have been sick on both ends and my Mother would drag me by my pigtails. I even fell out of a moving car on the way to church and after I was in the hospital, my Mother had a priest come for confession because I didn't make it to mass!!!! Did I mention it was a moving car that I fell out of?When I got married, I stopped going for a little while. I started going again when I got pregnant. Then, I found out she was sick, I stopped. I started going again, and taking her, right before her operation. I couldn't take her after the operation, for a while. I tried to take her when she was just over a year old, OH MY WORD! She was the show! I haven't taken her but one time since. My Mother won't even take her since my Daughter bolted to the alter on her and started dancing in front of the priest while the choir was singing! My Mother TOLD me that I shouldn't take her because she doesn't behave!!! I should have been out of line when I was little, lol!Daily -
dubiousjayhawk said on Dec 11, 2006....
Yeah, I understand where you're coming from with the church being a social thing. I attend a Unitarian Universalist church, but i'm very bad at it because I like to stay out late Saturday nights.... Being an athiest, I find the spiritual and social workings of a church to be very important to me, and it's refreshing to be in a community like that without all the religious right. Lots of people ask how I can go to any church as an athiest, because they dont seem to understand that athiests can be spiritual too. I believe my spirituality to come from the "interdependent web of all existence" which does not have to be supernatural.
Love your posts :)
dj
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secretlife said on Dec 11, 2006....
Yes, I do love the social side of church, and the sense of community.
church really is so much more than the doctrines of the religion for so many of us.
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missb said on Dec 11, 2006....
Ed,
Oh wow...i didn't know that you go to church either :) I believe a lot of people have different reasons to go to church, so i can understand what you mean.
Cheers! -
mobil said on Dec 11, 2006....
When I was a young man and an atheist, I quizzed my father as to why hebothered going to church.I said; "What good does it do to go to church? His reply; "What harm does itdo?My son, is now an atheist, he once asked how I could believe in the supernatural.My reply to him was; "Look at the Universe, if it's not supernatural, I'll kissyour ass.I doubt you would block me ED, if my presence here causes a kink in yourshorts, say so, I'll trouble you no more.It was the revelation of you attending church that prompted me to slip inhere. ha ha -
silverwhisper said on Dec 11, 2006....
it's cool, mobil. if you're interested, i'd like to take another crack at this--maybe we just got off on the wrong foot. and FWIW, i'm glad to see you back here.
LJ: you know whereof i speak then. :>
daily: yeah, i suppose that does come as a bit of a surprise. :D heh...i was always a very obedient child when i was younger...makes me wonder what happened... :>
dubious: thank you! i've been enjoying yours as well. :>
SL: there's a reason why churches were the center of communities for many, many years, no question.
miss b: i suppose i shocked folks w/ that revelation, huh? well, always keep 'em guessing, i say. :D
ed -
mobil said on Dec 11, 2006....
ED, another crack at this would be great, after a secondglance, I realized it wasn't you I had a problem with.However, that didn't happen until after I had unloaded. Ihold no hard feelings and am delighted that you do noteither.Hey, I'll even promise to not tag masturbation, ho ho ho -
silverwhisper said on Dec 11, 2006....
[chuckles]
fair enough. :>
ed -
nytquill17 said on Dec 11, 2006....
I wouldn't have guessed it! But then, being the wise and rather diplomatic person that you are, I'm not shocked. As a minister's daughter myself, I have...eh, well, I have my own issues with church. But at the same time, having grown up with it, I know exactly what you mean about why you go. :)
I come from a low-Church Protestant background, but one of these days I'll work up my nerve and go to a Catholic mass. Catholic churches are pretty much all there is around here, except for one storefront LDS place. A big change from the Bible belt, with U-Pick churches!
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silverwhisper said on Dec 11, 2006....
nyt: you're a PK? dang, that had to give you a very different perspective on things! :> make sure you don't tell your folks about going to catholic mass--i've heard some very bad stories. when she was younger and involved w/ someone else, she attended mass. her mother wigged out--severely.
ed -
purrrkitten said on Dec 11, 2006....
See, silver? We are similar in some ways... :-) I attend church once in a while too. My reasons aren't quite the same tho. I know what I believe and why. I am firm in my beliefs because I understand why I believe them. However, the church community is now why I don't go...
The church does much good work (ie. food drives, charity work, youth work, etc.) and much of the monies tithed there, do go towards such activities. But the judgemental attitudes of some folks there is just too much for me to handle these days.
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nytquill17 said on Dec 11, 2006....
lol! You remind me - once as a teenager I dated a *gasp!* Lutheran. My parents were all too happy for me to bring him to church with us, but when he wanted me to go with him (which seemed only fair to me)...oh dear!
I really enjoyed the Lutheran service, btw. A little high-church is good for the soul every now and then. Or maybe I just think that because I really dig ceremonies and traditions. ;)
Yes, being a PK does put a lot of things in a different light, for better or for worse. Fortunately my parents were of the "God gave us brains for a reason" school of thought - at least up to a point. Beyond that point were a lot of mixed messages! On the bright side I have a lot of understanding for both sides of the coin: churchgoing and/or religions, and not so much. Any experience that helps me understand more of the world isn't all bad in my book!
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silverwhisper said on Dec 11, 2006....
purrkitten: yes, i can certainly understand that. is there another church of that denomination in the area?
nyt: a lutheran? o the scandal! :D sheesh...at least it wasn't a jewish temple, eh? :D
ed -
nytquill17 said on Dec 11, 2006....
They didn't say anything, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a hospital visit involved when they found out I'd secretly married an atheist who had been baptized Catholic - and who's been divorced! And now now neither of us go to any church! :D -
satyr said on Dec 11, 2006....
I have to admit I was a bit surprised, silver at this post. I understand where you are coming from. I was there for a long time. Our church is very relaxed. Whether you wear a coat and tie or a flannel shirt and blue jeans or a T-shirt and shorts you are welcome in our church. That's one of the things I really like about it. -
whoisit4 said on Dec 11, 2006....
A too-familiar story with many chuches. It really depends on the dynamics of the church. Too many anymore disengage reason (apologetics) in favor of fluff and the focus of the teaching of the church gets to be on all the wrong things.
Fellowship among believers is a big part of what church is all about as well as worship and ministry.
I was baptized in a branch of the Mennonite tradition. We switched to Lutheran after my mom died and my dad remarried. I met my wife there and we got tired of ministering in a church that demanded ministry only to itself. it can suck the life out of you. Now, my wife and I are members of a Baptist church that ministers to the immediate community as well as sends people all over the world to minister. God has His purpose for each of these denominations.
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Mamie said on Dec 11, 2006....
hey Ed, you are so funny! Also it is funny that people did or did not think or know if/when you went to church! See how we use our judgment button without even knowing we do?Going to different churches was never a prob. with my parents. I always went to different churches if I was with a friend and their fam on a Sunday morning...churches, synagogues, it was all cool. So that is how I raised my daughter, too.I think I am my own version of a catholic. But thats likely a whole other blog...so have fun at church next weekend if you go and I think it is cool too that you get credit for visiting the IL's at the same time!! Mamie -
gingersoul said on Dec 11, 2006....
Ed...no, it didnt surprise me at all.....:-)
I always go to churches. I dont care about the services, mind you., But i am fascinated by them. Its my cultural background..remember i have been raised in a Catholic school.. .churches are always in my list when i visit a new city....i am deeply interested by their architecture, their artistic displays, their history.... in Europe there are so many, many churches so exquisitely old, thousand of years old...they amazes me..i love their "chiostro", that secluded area sorrounded by a garden or a herb garden usually with a well in the middle, and arches all around ....
Here in Usa i went for a very short period to a non denominational church mostly because my daughter wanted to go with her uncle and her aunt....she liked the youth program and i met several nice people there..i had only a problem with them...they name God every two sentences....its more than i can bear...lol....
I brought my daughter last Xmas at the midnight mass in a Catholic church close to my place...she loved it....and i went again last July when she has been baptized...
maybe this might come more as a surprise to you.....fact is i never prohibited her to go to any of her friends' churches...actually she got a taste of lot of them: Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Evangelical, non denominational...
Now she goes with her father the week end she is with him.....there she has been baptized. She said she was ready and i let her doing it......
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CreativeWoman said on Dec 11, 2006....
Ed,
I'm not so surprised that you go to church. You seem spiritual in nature. :-)
I think it depends on the church regarding how social it is. I belong to the Catholic church that my husband grew up in. It's nothing but money, money, money. It's not that the money goes for good works, because it doesn't. It's because the local Baptist church is bigger. We can't let that happen. It's not said out loud, but it's true. So we're building in my estimation to compete with it.
When there were deaths in my family, I heard crickets from my husband's parish. Perhaps I just don't fit in.
I joined a Catholic parish nearer to my hometown when I first became a Catholic. The church has a totally different atmosphere. It was much more about the people and building faith. I feel more like I belong there.
Right up until I was married, I was a Baptist. I went to a little country church. It's the kind of church that doesn't forget you. When the deaths occurred in my family, they were the ones offering support even though I wasn't a member there anymore.
I'm not down on my faith, but church has left a bad taste in my mouth.
CW
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boyzmom said on Dec 11, 2006....
I am looking for a church to go to, I have been attending a Spanish church with my ex-mother-in-law but I don't speak the language and feel a little left in the dark. I have also attended a Seventh Day Adventist church but do not agree with their "traditions" so would rather be somewhere that had the same beliefs as me. I like going to church because it gives me a break from my kids and time to concentrate on me (and God of course). I am glad that you attend church because someday the Lord may speak to your heart and that is important. -
purrrkitten said on Dec 11, 2006....
There is one other baptist church in this town but it's more of a traditional one (you know, wear sunday best, don't smile, don't clap) and I am more than not comfortable in that kind. We've been attending the Lutheran once in a while. In a samll town, you run out of choices fairly quickly. :-) -
organic.writing said on Dec 11, 2006....
i go to shul only on high holy days. It is kind of peaceful and nice to see the same people year after year growing up. Though I hate getting up at 9 am for a day I'm supposed to have off from work to stand and sit and stand and sit a million times, i feel comfort in knowing that the same happens every year. Shul is weird, I must admit. I think it is because i hate it as much as i can't live without it. I don't go for social reasons because nobody I was friends with in hebrew school goes to the same shul as me anymore. It's kind of depressing to see somewhere I grew up at yet not knowing anyone except for blank familiar faces that I've never talked to.I remember every year there was this face that I always looked for. I went to hebrew school with him for 7 years. THe last year I spoke to him I snubbed him when he tried to talk to me. Fast forward two years he got hot. He used to be a talkative and trouble-making kid, but he got into college on a swimming scholarship. He was so beautiful that every year I would look for him. He came home for the holidays every year and I would always look for him. But, then he graduated and moved to New York for law school. He doesn't go to shul every year anymore and I miss seeing his face because it was such a "whoa" moment whenever I found where he was sitting. I guess now I need a new crush...organic... -
tlj2442 said on Dec 11, 2006....
I am not even going to touch this one! -
curmudgeon said on Dec 11, 2006....
Walking into a church and joining that community of people literally changed my life. I can honestly say I'm a born again Christian. Mostly liberal in my theology at this point, but definitely born again.This society is so huge that it's easy to get lost in it, lose sight of the fact that we are one People. Joining an organization like a church offers a more manageable social environment, one in which everyone can feel welcome, appreciated and loved. At least, that's kind of the way it is in my church.Just like any family, members come to church with all sorts of baggage. Some of it might even seem un-Christian or even hypocritical. And yet I think we need to refrain from wielding the h-word so broadly as to blame all of religion because people have simply acted in accordance with their unmet needs, their unresovled anger, their limited frame of experience and reference, in short, their imperfect nature.Me, I love the whole experience - worship, communion, service, scripture and community. It can transform your life if you but open yourself up to it. -
mom said on Dec 11, 2006....
Hi Silver,I think religion and spirituality are a very personal thing. Where you or anyone goes should be a place that you are comfortable with. How can you be spiritually fed if you are not comfortable there? Also children have as much right to be in church as anyone. If the child acts up then take the child into the hall. The fact is I always believed that church is someplace you need to be on the Sabbath. -
Zayda said on Dec 11, 2006....
In a way it did surprise me to learn that you go to church, but on a different level, I am not surprised entirely because even as an agnostic, you are spiritual. You are also well informed on a variety of theologies, so I suppose that it's not entirely suprising that you would go to church.
It's also not surprising that you go since the church is the church your wife grew up in.
And well, let's face it, at least you don't try to hide the fact that it's the social aspect of church that appeals to you as well as the theological.
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writerspirit said on Dec 11, 2006....
Religion and people, two of the most fascinating topics out there!I'm always curious about what people believe and why; there are an endless number of answers.Personally, I have never followed any one faith or attended church regularly. When I married I agreed to baptise and raise my children in the Catholic faith as a concetion to my husband (as an Italian/Catholic) and the fact that I had refused to be married in the Catholic church.The way I see it, everyone is entitled to believe in anything they want, as long as they afford me the same luxury. -
silverwhisper said on Dec 11, 2006....
nyt: bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!
satyr: see, i can understand that approach to worship. after all, god knows what's in your heart, and given what's said about pharisees... :>
whoisit4: welcome to my blog! that's a very reasonable view of other sects, i think. shame about that lutheran church you once attended.
mamie, GS: personally, i think that the kind of broad base of faith that you're providing for your daughters is a very good thing indeed. :>
CW: i hope you don't mind my saying so, but i think your husband's church is very depressing. your former church: now that's what i would expect from a church!
boyzmom: good to see you again. :> my mother used to nurse the hope that i would become a pastor. she was very excited when i attended a college affiliated w/ a church.
purrkitten: mm, yes, i imagine your options are somewhat limited. :>
organic writing: i don't think i ever realized you were jewish. i take from your use of the word shul that you're orthodox, not reform? has everyone else you grew up knowing moved elsewhere?
tlj: i have a dear friend who's a baptist lay minister. he and i have discussed church attendance. he observed that he tries to avoid having people in the pews like me, and i understand that perspective.
curmudgeon: i admire that you've found a beautiful thing that shapes your life.
mom: i agree they're personal. heck, it's about as personal as it gets, isn't it? :>
super z: o heavens, i could hardly do other. :>
writerspirit: welcome to my blog and thank you for dropping by. i'm curious what faith you converted from prior to your marriage.
ed -
CreativeWoman said on Dec 11, 2006....
Ed,
You are right. My husband's church is depressing with a capital D. I'll take that little country church any day. It's too bad I moved away from it or I would still go there.
CW
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NotReallyAnonymousAJ said on Dec 12, 2006....
Daily! Your daughter was enjoying church in a way that's very pleasing to Jesus. I'm sure He smiled while watching her dancing up there with the priest and choir, and I bet she blessed a few hearts that day.
I like the story of the little boy who was about four years old (or, perhaps, younger) who, one day, jumped up out of his pew before his mom and dad could stop him and ran up to the front to sing and dance with the choir, much like your little girl did.
He made a habit of doing stuff like that quite often after that.
Then, there came a time when people actually paid to hear him sing--LOTS of people!--because that little boy was Elvis!
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tbs230 said on Dec 12, 2006....
Hey Ed, you and Church...I can see it. I love services, mind you, service is alot different from mass. I love AME churches! All the clapping and singing, if I was bold, I'd go up there and dance too. Mass, not so much fun...but sometimes when I'm feeling quiet, that's where I go.
But umm, *cough* *cough*, the people at Church really do make a boring mass go alot faster, especially a boring Haitian mass that is said in French - my mother's preferred choice. FYI, I don't know French to save my life, but I can repeat the sounds so it sounds like I'm saying everything correctly :)
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danetteb said on Dec 12, 2006....
I stopped going to church coz the socials weren't any good anymore. Since I moved from my hometown I find the people at churches really stuck up and snobby.
I'd rather spend time at home with the people I love, and if I want to give to charitable organizations, I go to an orphanage and give them money, and sometimes spend time with the kids. They seem to appreciate it more when I spend my time with them.
Sorry, I know I'm cynical when it comes to church.
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silverwhisper said on Dec 12, 2006....
CW: i certainly wouldn't blame you!
tbs: um...AME? [confuzzled]
danette: some would argue that this means you haven't been in good churches. i won't make that argument, but perhaps something to keep in mind?
ed -
tbs230 said on Dec 12, 2006....
lol, African Methodist Episcopal (I hope I spelled that right). -
silverwhisper said on Dec 12, 2006....
[lightbulb]
ah! -
tlj2442 said on Dec 12, 2006....
Look people go to church every Sunday and that does not mean that they are saved. They sit there and fill up a pew. At least you are honest about your feelings. Some say they are Christian but have no clue to what it actually means. You going to church doesn't really affect me one way or the other. It speaks volumes about the ministry of your church though. To me, only God knows what's in each of our hearts. Most people that I know will tell you that they were nowhere near a church, far from it, when they felt God calling them. Even if your are a minister that does not mean you have a relationship with God. There are plenty of people sitting inside of churches that are going to hell instead of heaven. We all have our reasons on why we go and don't go. Why we listen and don't listen. Ed, if God ever turns your heart to him, I doubt seriously you will be sitting in side a church when it happens. Besides you go and sit in a building where religious services are held. The church are the people who go, who believe, and live in Christ. When you have that you can sit outside under a tree and have a church. -
writerspirit said on Dec 13, 2006....
to answer your question ed, i was not of any particular faith before i married. my mom was/is anglecan and my dad is catholic, non-practicing though.
i have to say i completely agree wtih tlj2442; well said!
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silverwhisper said on Dec 13, 2006....
tlj: my being in a church says nothing about the ministry in my church. the churchgoing experience where i live is very different from the way you experience it where you live: i've had this conversation many times w/ other evangeicals. suffice it to say that there's a culture gap. but otherwise i completely agree that the church is the people, not the building.
ed
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