• silverwhisper said on Dec 07, 2006....

  honestly, miss b, and i say this b/c i care about you, if you're drinking to get drunk, i think that's extremely bad. and while i won't label you an alcoholic, i think you should reevaluate the the way you use alcohol--or perhaps, the way alcohol uses you.
  
  while you're blacked out or passed out, do you understand the incredible possible risk you put yourself at? think about what could happen to you while sleeping on the pavement.
  
  ed

• missb said on Dec 07, 2006....

  [gasps]
  
  So people don't drink to get drunk? So why do they drink? I'm joking (or not) :/
  
  So it's bad huh. But i wasn't really sleeping per se on the pavement. My friends picked me up of course. When they're eating they put some chairs together and i slept for a bit. Of course i wasn't alone. I was with my friends, the ones i can trust. And i didn't drive home. I was too drunk, so my girlfriend drove me to her house. I don't always end up like that everytime i go out drinking though. Usually just enough alcohol to make me more relaxed or tipsy or just a bit drunk.
  
  OMG...am i rationalizing now? :/
  
  Thanks for the concern, ed. I really appreciate it. I guess i should reevaluate.
  
  Cheers :)

• silverwhisper said on Dec 07, 2006....

  i drink b/c it's enjoyable and is a dandy social lubricant, miss b. i drink b/c i enjoy the flavors of wine and beer and cocktails. and i drink b/c it's a nice way to unwind a bit. it's when you go from enjoying being buzzed to wanting (or worse, needing) to be drunk that there's a problem if that becomes a habit. obviously, if you've had some kinda big stress in your life, getting blasted is a time-honored way of trying to put it out of your mind until you can deal w/ it, but very few folks have that happening a whole lot in their lives.
  
  now, given what you say in that comment, it doesn't sound like you have a problem w/ alcohol. it just sounds like you're young, still kinda new to drinking and having fun.
  
  but remember, nobody sets out to become an alcoholic.
  
  ed

• missb said on Dec 07, 2006....

  Ahhh... perhaps someday i will get to the stage where i drink because i enjoy the flavors instead of getting drunk.
  
  So I'm ok now? Yayy...i'm so happy. Gotta tell those people -- see, i told you i'm not an alcoholic! :) But yes sir, i still gotta be careful. I'll keep that in mind ;) Oh wait, should i hear another verdict? :/ Oh well, gotta run now. Off to bed :) Thanks ed!
  
  Cheers!

• secretlife said on Dec 07, 2006....

  missb:  my opinion is this - i believe you yourself see your drinking as a problem.  drinking for the purpose of getting drunk is not a good thing.  But worse is drinking to the point of blackout.  That's kind of scary.  And when you start doing things that are humiliating later, yeah, I think I might re-evaluate.

  Have you tried putting limits on your drinking?  Like if you go out with your friends maybe every other drink have a soda or water?  There are lots of ways to cut back.  And if you have a problem cutting back, I think you'll have your answer.

  Re: driving drunk?  You must have tree's and guardrails and other cars in Indonesia?  It's dangerous whether it's written up or not.  Just because there are no statistics doesn't mean it's not dangerous...

  When I was your age, I often drank too much.  My husband, before he was my husband, told me once that i was an ugly drunk.  Here I thought it was funny and i was having a good time, but from his perspective i looked a fool.  That was the day I stopped getting drunk as a pasttime. 

• lioneljay said on Dec 07, 2006....

  Missb, try to find a copy of Augusten Burroughs's book Dry. Read it.
  
  After you've read that book, ask yourself again if you have a drinking problem. And then tell us your answer.
  

• mobil said on Dec 07, 2006....

  missb: If you think you might have a problem, that's a pretty good indication that you have a problem.

   

  I too had a problem, didn't think I did and I went through all the usual reasons why I didn't.

   

  I look at life as if it were a game and me the only player. I quit smoking, quit drinking coffee (went so well with smoking) and I quit drinking.

   

  The game is Value Added, what increases the value of life for you?What  takes away from it?

   

  I try hard to add value, I am human, so I still do a few things that do not add value. BUT, the big things, the ones that add to or diminish your soul. Those we must look at closely and make good choices.

   

  These choices benefit the human condition, your condition. The condition of your soul and those who's lives you touch.

   

  I've read some of your stuff, your smart, funny, honest and personable. You will find your way. God bless you.

• moonriver said on Dec 08, 2006....

  moonriver confucius say: this hard for me to say, but me think missb already alcoholic. still low level, but there already. earlier recognized, earlier dealt with. me suggest missb avoid alcohol altogether for one year. if this easy to do, then problem solved.
   

• missb said on Dec 08, 2006....

  SL,
  
  I do see my drinking as a problem. But it's only a problem when i can get it easily, like when i was in taiwan. It was so easy to buy and it's cheap. Temptations like that make my drinking habit worse. But in indonesia, i'm not like that. Over here, i drive. So that's something that keeps me from drinking excessively. I go out to clubs and drink in moderation, just enough to make me more relaxed. Of course there are times that i get carried away, like that night on my post. I agree that drunk people are not pretty :) I know that drunk driving is very dangerous as well, that's why i usually put limit on my drinking. Thank you for your valuable opinion :) [hugz]
  
  LJ,
  
  Duly noted. I'll try and get that book. Thanks :)
  
  Cheers ;)

• missb said on Dec 08, 2006....

  mobil,
  
  I'm still deciding whether i have a problem with drinking or not. Deep down i know that i need some kind of a "substance" every now and then to escape life for a little bit. I don't really use drugs or something like that, just alcohol. I admire you and people like you who can quit things. I mean, coffee? :) That game of yours is worth trying. I'm gonna try and play it. I know i need to reevaluate a lot of things in my life right now. Thank you so much for your wisdom. I really appreciated it. Now, give me a hug [open arms] :)
  
  moonriver,
  
  Hey moon...thanks for stopping by :) I also agree with you actually, that i might be an alcoholic already in its very first stage. My friends have told me that i am an alcoholic but jokingly. Noone has really tried and talked to me about it seriously. My parents know that i drink when i go out but they never really know that sometimes i get too drunk. With everything said, i don't think i'm ready to give up alcohol for a year. I think that's a bit too long. I dunno, i mean i'm not really a chronic alcoholic :/ [sighs] Thanks for the input. I need to do some thinking about this.
  
  Cheers :)

• nytquill17 said on Dec 08, 2006....

  It seems to me that if you're asking yourself the question, it means that, whether or not you are "clinically" an alcoholic, you have a problem with your drinking - that you're feeling guilty or bad about it in some way.
  
  I remember the first time I really had access to alcohol, and I had a lot of fun with it.  Tried lots of different beers, a few wines, some mixed drinks.  I mean, there is that moment of "Holy crap, I can drink now!" and I think almost everyone (who's interested in alcohol, anyway) has had it.
  
  You're young (though you're older than me, in fact!) and having fun experiencing this part of adult life, and that's fine.  But as others have said, no one sets out to be an alcoholic, so do be careful! :)
  

• gingersoul said on Dec 08, 2006....

  Missb.....i dont want to scare you, or maybe yes.

  i have a very hard time telling you what i am going to tell you.

  Its a wound in my flesh. Still fresh.

  My sister (who passed away one  month ago) was talking exactly like you. She was justifying her behavior just like you. She did it for so many years.

  She has been found (just like you) passed out in so many different places: on a bench in the street, on the floor at some friends house, on the couch at some party. In some bed...

  Missb, she was an alcoholic. She denied being so until the last day of her consciuos life. She died of pancreatic cancer but when the doctor visited her he told her "Even if you had stop drinking 10 years ago it would have been already late". She was drinking since she was barely out of high school. Very young, like you. 

  We watched her coming back home barely standing up, we watched her  hiding bottles in her purse, describing her falling or her accidents like they were funny episodes without importance (just like you do), we listened to her blubbering nonsense during our dinners, she with her red eyes and trembling hands. She would say she was simply cold. She would say she was having a flu or some allergy.. She would say she was drinking just with her meals. She would constantly lie. Especially to herself (like you are doing).

  Missb, i see so many of her lies in your words.

  She admitted to know the was having a hard time with drinking sometimes but she always declared, like you, that she knew how to stop, when to stop. Lies. Only lies.

  She didnt know it. After a while she wasnt able anymore to stop. We tried to convince her to seek professional help. When the years of "happy-cool-get together-friendly-socially drinking" turned in dark solitary wasting herself  and no one, no one had been able to reach her anymore behind that thick wall of lies and deceiving habit she kept building around her.  Missb, listen to me. Its not fun, its no cool, its nothing. Its simply your soul screaming for attention, love, attention, love.... 

  Stop before its too late. The line to cross is so thin you wouldnt even notice you had crossed it, just like my sister....you are bright, strong, creative, just like her.....it hurst me reading your words..

  You are simply lying to yourself when you say you are still deciding if you are ot not an alcoholist....like youare talking about which shoes to wear tonight.....red or black..

  Wake up, honey...listen careful: there is a point (which maybe you are already very close ) when YOU doesnt matter anymore, YOU doesnt control anymore your choices. Its the alcohol that controls you. Dont fool youself....

  Please, if you have any question, just ask....{{{hugs}}}  

• BlogObsessed said on Dec 08, 2006....

  Dear MissB. I have known many alcoholics in my day and spent years married to one. All my experience has taught me that there is no one definition of alcholism. There is no test or chart etc that can fit every alcoholic. Much of what the others have said above is very insightful - please heed their advice. Denial, drinking to get drunk, etc - classic signs. Love yourself, value yourself enough to recognize what is happening to you. I know it is hard. My ex-husband's recognition of his own alcoholism was the hardest and the greatest thing he has ever done. He has never regretted choosing sobriety - though intially it was hard. And please, please!!! heed Secret's warning about driving. I do not know you well and I hope you do not take offense, but please do not endanger yourself or the lives of others while driving - it is because of the death toll of sober drivers at the mercy of drunk drivers that rules in the west are so strict. You do not want the death of someone on your conscience for life - to be very blunt. My ex served time in prison for 2 DUI's (the second time he almost killed himself) and he knew that he needed to serve the time and knew he was lucky not to be serving time for manslaughter. I hope I have not offended you. I mean only to help. Shock-therapy I guess. Please do take care and good luck.

• organic.writing said on Dec 08, 2006....

  An alcoholic is a person who drinks to get drunk.  You don't have to stop drinking, but the whole idea of getting drunk is not normal.  You don't have to want to drink everyday to be an alcoholic.  The whole statement you said about "my affair with alcohol" says you're an alcoholic.  Just because you admit to being one doesn't mean you have to change...it's up to you dude.  Just see the truth for what it is.  I can tell you normal people might get drunk a couple times a year max, though they'll drink alcohol many more times than that.  Drinking to loosen inhibitions a bit in uncomfortable situations (like with family) is healthy.  But getting drunk on a regular basis isn't normal (unless you're in college or from the UK.

• EzGoing said on Dec 08, 2006....

  I would like to take this opportunity to comment here for missb. I think a person who is realising that drinking is a sort of problem for her then in my openion she is not alcoholic. At the same time if you have a thought that what had happened last night or the other day was a little bit too much. Realising that the party was good and I wanted to get serious with someone's suggesting me to watch. I hate when I start getting comments  
  l ike that.
  Bottom line is you are not alcohlic the way you have explained your things. But please watch for the blackouts. I would have ended myself almost killing a pedestian years before and beleive it or not, when I think about that moment I limit myself to drinks.
  Hope you know what  I mean.

• eudaemonia said on Dec 09, 2006....

  You might be interested to know about an alternative to AA for sane, rational and non-alarmist information and discussion about substance abuse and addiction: SMART Recovery.
  
  I mention it because I wonder how AA can claim such a high rate of success when its membership, because of the very nature of anonymity, would seem to preclude any ability to verify such success. Also, how do they account for the fact of relapse doesn't seem to matter in their calculus of a "success" rate?
  
  Just some observations ...
  
  Keep up your personal policy of non-evasion about your drinking habits. That's some good work there! Hopefully you can come to apply the break when it's necessary and still in your control to do so rather have that choice taken away.
  

• missb said on Dec 10, 2006....

  Hi Nyt,
  
  I do question my drinking habit sometimes. I used to hang out with heavy drinker friends and at that time I felt that i was just a "rookie" compared to them. So if i hang out with them, i feel like i don't have a problem. But at the moment i'm hanging out with friends who don't really drink as much as me, or atleast we have different reasons to drink. I don't feel bad about it, i just feel different :) And it doesn't make me wanna go back to my heavy drinker friends either. Thanks for the concern, dear. Don't worry, I will be careful ;)
  
  Ginger dear,
  
  I am sorry if i've awaken your wound. I don't mean to. And i didn't know that your sister was an alcoholic. I'm so sorry, sweetie. [hugz]
  
  I have to tell you though, that I never drank until i pass out. I've had some blackouts where i couldn't remember some of the events but never to the point of being unconscious. I drink with friends to have a good time or alone to unwind. I don't try and hide drinks so i can drink where drinks are not served. Well, i've "smuggled" drinks in karaokes but that's because either they only have beer or the drinks are too expensive.
  
  I do realize that i have this void in my heart longing to be filled. That's why i said on my previous reply to mobil that i need to escape life for a bit every now and then and alcohol provides that for me. I'm aware that the line is so thin that sometimes we didn't realize we have crossed it. That's why i keep a close tab on my drinking habit.
  
  I don't think i'm an alcoholic. (i know, it sounds like denial) The reason i wrote the post was because i needed to hear some outside opinions from you all. And for that, i thank you so much. I was questioning whether i really need help before it's too late or not. In my defense, i'm quite new to this whole drinking business. I'm single and free. I just thought i'd make the most of it before i go to the next stage in life.
  
  Thank you dear for your concerns. They're much appreciated. Again, i'm truly sorry about your sister. [hugz] Much love.
  
  Cheers :)

• missb said on Dec 10, 2006....

  BlogO,
  
  Thanks for stopping by :) You have not offended me, dear. I appreciate any opinions and views. I will heed everyone's opinions. I would never want to endanger anyone's life. I can never take that. Thank you for the concern and help :)
  
  organic.writing,
  
  Thanks for your opinions :) I try and get drunk on a weekly basis, that is when i go out clubbing with friends. But if "normal" people get drunk only a couple of times a year max, I guess i'm surrounded by not-so-normal people :/ Too bad i'm not from the UK. I like that remark :D
  
  EZGoing,
  
  Thank you :) It seems like you're rather alone on this. You have a different view from other commenters and I appreciate it. I agree with blackouts. They can be scary. Some mornings i woke up in my bed and couldn't remember how i managed to get home, so i know what you mean ;) I do limit my drinks. The reason i sometimes get too drunk is because i drink on empty stomach at times. I know that's not good at all :/ Oh well. Thanks for stopping by!
  
  eudaemonia,
  
  Thanks for the link. I'll look into it. I'm not sure we even have AA here in indonesia :/ Once again, thank you :)
  
  P.S: Sorry it took me long to reply back. My internet connection's been so screwed up these past 2 days. Gaahh!!
  
  Cheers!

• CreativeWoman said on Dec 11, 2006....

  missb,
  The blackouts you describe really concern me.  That is not something to brush off as part of a fun evening with friends.  What happens the one time your friends don't follow through and protect you?
  
  My brother was an alocholic for many years.  He always claimed he wasn't.  He even went through rehab a couple of times and it didn't work. His attitude was that if he bought a case of beer, he was going to drink a case of beer. He drank to get drunk.  The only thing that snapped him out of it was finding out that he had terminal liver cancer at the age of 33 which was most certainly brought about by his lifestyle.  He never drank a drop after his diagnosis, but it was too late.
  
  Pay attention to the sign posts missb.  We want you safe and in control.
  
  CW
  

• missb said on Dec 12, 2006....

  Hey CW,
  
  Nice of you to drop by. I know the blackouts are quite dangerous. I sometimes totally forget certain things, like how the hell did i get home? I knew i drove but couldn't remember it the next day.
  
  I'm so sorry to hear about your brother. [hugz] I will cut down my drinking. My bf also has the same concern. Thanks for the concern, CW. I really appreciate it.
  
  Cheers :)

• gingersoul said on Dec 12, 2006....

  Missb..... i am still really concerned about you...i read your answers to our posts.....you seem to repeat the same things over and over... I want to believe you, dear, but its difficult...i have still in my mind my sisters' excuses...i believed d her too many time, too much...i shouldnt' have... CW is right....what will happen to you the night you wil be alone and so vulnerable? My sister was robbed one of those nights...they took her wallet, her watch...luckily she didnt have the car key....... Those blackouts you describe are the first sign......your brain is getting stressed out more and more from them.... And, about getting drunk because your stomach is empty...... missb....you know you drink when you stomach is empty BECAUSE you know you will get drunk faster... I worry for you, girl......Listen to your bf.... Let us know.....take care of you....

• missb said on Dec 12, 2006....

  Dear Ginger,
  
  I understand your concern, dear. I do. But it's just that it's such an on-off affair for me regarding alcohol. Even when i take tests on the internet, it's kind of hard for me to answer cause i don't always drink regularly, well maybe once a week but i don't drink that much either. Mostly 2 long island iced teas are enough. The reason why i mostly drink on empty stomach is because i don't eat regularly. My waking hours are very different from normal people cause i'm not working at the moment.
  
  I don't have easy access to alcohol. I do admit that once it's easy to get, i can easily fall in its trap. Like when i was a student in taiwan. I fell right through. But i was a student. I know once i'm living a REAL life i'd be different. Well maybe still once a week to unwind, but that's it.
  
  Anyway, i just want to tell you that everything's ok. Don't worry about me, ginger dear. I'll keep you posted, ok. [hugz]
  
  Cheers :)

• Fedup-66-27-91 said on Dec 12, 2006....

  Soz about not sticking with da topic but check us out....we devote this site completely to bitching annomously...you can bitch your hearts out ... and feel better then people can coment....By the way this account is owned by three you'll get the idea if you check out our blog.....anyways gotta love ya and leave ya but check us out and dont be afraid to bitch!!!!! its all normal!!!
   
  From 66

• soulreaver said on Dec 13, 2006....

  plainly... GUILTY. You need to rethink your life - and alcohol.

• StrangeOne said on Dec 16, 2006....

  Hey missb, I have had much experience with alcohol and alcoholics like others here, so I'd like to drop in my 2 cents as well. I see alcoholism as a spectrum, rather than a "yes or no" question. Your description of yourself does not fit the hardcore life-long alcoholics I have known, HOWEVER, you do sound like you are on a very precarious edge, a borderline between normal youthful drinking and unhealthy problematic drinking. IMHO, having blackouts etc. is not necessarily a problem in itself. When I was in my teens I partied and drank a lot and frequently had blackouts, passed out, you-name-it, myself. And obviously, kids drink to get drunk so this isn't necessarily a problem either. What DOES concern me about your post is the idea that once you start drinking, you can't stop. And what also concerns me is that you have such a hard time resisting it if it's cheap and easy to get. Those two things are what indicate that the alcohol is controlling YOU, rather than you controlling it. THAT is a serious problem.
  
  What I wonder is - what is it that DOES make you stop drinking? Do you get sick? Do your friends drag you out of the place? It would be helpful to know what gets you to eventually stop, because then you could perhaps use that to control yourself.
  
  To explain what I mean, I'll describe my personal experience. Like I said, I used to drink way too much as well. Again, certainly not every day, but I went to parties, and I got very drunk. Part of the problem is that I've always had a very low tolerance for alcohol. Two beers get me pretty drunk, while 3 or 4 get me blacking out, passing out, the spins, and vomiting. I drank to this state regularly for years before I got smart. Every time I drank so much, it was like torture because I felt so sick, and I promised myself never again, but I never seemed to be able to control it. So what got me to stop? I finally said never again and meant it! I felt so sick I wanted to die. I begged my friends to remind me in the future of how I felt, next time I drank. And it worked. It finally dawned on me that my system simply cannot process more than 2 beers. So now when I drink (which is pretty rare at this point) I drink slowly, and I never drink more than 2 beers. And now I can enjoy a buzz without getting pitifully, sickeningly drunk!
  
  If you don't get sick and feel awful, then we might have to devise some other way for you to figure out how to stop. But it sounds like perhaps just the humiliation from sleeping on the pavement is enough! So, tell yourself never again, tell your friends to help you set your limits. Real, true friends will help you with this. You don't necessarily need to stop drinking. But you do need to learn your limits. If 2 drinks gets you to a pleasantly buzzed point, STOP THERE!!! Do anything you can to keep count. Once you are pretty buzzed you will forget how much you had, and you will forget your promise to yourself, and you will keep drinking. Therefore you MUST devise a new way to remember your limit. Remember the limit you have set for yourself, and SIP, don't GULP! If you nurse your beer slowly, and it gets warm, that's a GOOD sign, it means you're taking your time. My friends tease me about how slowly I drink my beer and how warm it gets, but it is how I limit myself, and they respect that. And every so often, when you feel that buzz going to your head, remind yourself that this buzz is enjoyable, and if you drink more you will go past a buzz heading for the pavement and humiliation!
  
  I am not sure how else to describe my suggestion to you... but let me know what you think about it!
  
  

• StrangeOne said on Dec 16, 2006....

  heheh that was longer than I realized, I guess it was more than 2 cents... :)
  
  

• missb said on Dec 19, 2006....

  Hey StrangeOne,
  
  You're back! It's been a while huh. I was wondering where you were. Good to know you're still around. Anyway, thanks for stopping by :)
  
  Thank you very much for your 2 cents :) I really appreciate it. Basically I agree with everything you said. I also don't see myself as a raging alcoholic but more like a youthful (although i'm not young per se) irresponsible drinker. Blackouts don't necessarily determine alcoholism, i agree. Anyone can have blackouts when they have too much to drink. But i notice that i never had that in my early years of drinking. I didn't have hangovers and blackouts. But of course as my alcohol tolerance has gone up, i drink more than i used to. So maybe that explains the bad hangovers and blackouts.
  
  Your concern about me not being able to stop, well actually i do stop. I couldn't stop until i was drunk. But once i'm drunk enough I stop. Ok, maybe once or twice i got carried away that i didn't stop to the point of what happened that night on my post. But that's really once in a blue moon :)
  
  If drinks are easy to get and cheap, i would probably drink whenever i have the impulse to. Like when something unpleasant happens and i say, i need a drink then i would drink. But over here, i can only say those words without acting on it.
  
  I don't like throwing up or feeling sick after drinking. So i tell myself not to drink to the point of being sick. That's what usually stops me. Over here, i don't usually drink that much anyway. The drinks in clubs are so over-priced. But usually my friends drag me out. I always drink slow in the beginning. But after feeling tipsy, i drink faster. That's why i'm usually drunk when my friends have sobered up and ready to go home. That's when they drag me out :/
  
  I've had days of horrible hangovers and swore that i wouldn't drink again. But of course that hasn't happened yet. I know my limits actually. 2 or 3 glasses of long island iced teas would "do" me. Oh well...i'm a bit confused now :/
  
  That night on my post was a one time only event, hopefully. Like i said, it was all time low. It never happened before. The other night before that when i fell, i didn't pass out sleeping. So it was kinda different :)
  
  Anyway, I dunno what else to say. I'm not even sure of my "case". This drinking thing is really sporadic, never had a fixed pattern :/ What i do know is that i need to cut down the drinking. I know because my bf have told me and also you and others here on soulcast :)
  
  Thanks a lot. I'll keep everything in mind, StrangeOne. Oh, and i'll be having a bit of a break from SC in case you didn't know. I wrote a post about it. So, MERRY CHRISTMAS & HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU, DEAR ONE! ;)
  
  Cheers!
  

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