• SeanRenaud said on Nov 05, 2006....

  I do have doubts about their situation if they have gay parents.  I've only known one person who had two mothers and he was a bit of a pussy.  But he was also a Marine and made it through boot camp and went to war without a problem so I can't say he was really that fucked up.
   
  With that said we have a problem with children getting adopted period.  We KNOW that children who grow up in houses are likely to grow up to be statistics.  We know that despite the ease of which an abortion can be obtained the vast majority of children aren't adopted.  The numbers are one of those gaurded secrets of the world which leads me to believe that the situation is worse than the 50% that I would assume. 
   
  We don't really know what the result is of growing up with two parents of the same sex.  I venture that it would be better than growing up with no parents.  I'd rather have a bunch of sissie boys who knew how dress and women who climbed trees than girls who grow up to be alley whores and guys joining gangs.  Seems like a no brainer until the adoption rate is at least 75% plus I'd be tempted to say anybody who's not a confirmed child molester should be allowed to adopt a kid.  If the fucking LA Lakers want to adopt a kid between all of them so be it, he's almost definitely better off tht way than with the alternative.

• silverwhisper said on Nov 05, 2006....

  no reputable studies exist that offer any conclusive evidence that the children of gay parents are in any way worse off.  that's all that matters to me.
  
  ed
  

• secretlife said on Nov 05, 2006....

  One of my best friends in a lesbian who wanted desperately to have a child.
  Her partner of 8 years had 3 grown sons, and they couldn't work it out between them.
  It came down to a decision for my friend which was more important to her --- and after several years
  of thinking this over, she came to the conclusion that she couldn't live her life without a child-
   
  I've watched her alone with this little chinese girl for the past 4 years.
  She is a wonderful mother.
  I wish she had a partner to make her life easier.....
   
  I have other gay friends - women - who have children.
  They are couples, and their children are loved as much as children in any other 2 parent home as
  far as I can see. 
   
  When you're in a loving, committed relationship, it's natural to want children.  Why would anyone
  think gays are any different in this regard?
   
   

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 05, 2006....

  One could come to the conclusion that wanting children means wanting to make children which is something they are currently incapable of.

• silverwhisper said on Nov 05, 2006....

  sean: one might.  one would also be in error.  :>
  
  ed
  

• lioneljay said on Nov 05, 2006....

  SR, what are you trying to say here, in your most recent comment? Are you suggesting that it's somehow not right to want children if you are physically incapable of bearing or fathering them? If so, what do you say to heterosexual people who cannot bear children but who have that same desire to have children?
  

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 05, 2006....

  @Silver: I didn't say it was a proper conclusion I said that all the logic is there.
   
  @Lion: No I'm not saying "it's not right" if I were I'd be against adoption pretty much period.  I would say that a case could be made that by being in a homosexual relationship (or by being single) you have made a concious decision to be childless.  ITs not the same as being baren (unless you had your tubes tied voluntarily for non medical reasosn) because you made a decision.  Unless you can prove that gays are born with something different (in which case I would be willing to go back to labeling it as a disease if it is something that is infact "mis-wired" in their brain rather than a learned behavior then I don't think its fair to make that connection.
   
  I would say though that sans adoption being gay or single is the equivalent of not looking for a job and crying about a lack of income.
   
  If you read my first post I am for gay's right to adopt I'm just poking holes where the argument doesn't make sense. 

• lioneljay said on Nov 05, 2006....

  SR, I'm glad to see that you're being consistent but I'm still not at all sure what you meant when you said this: "One could come to the conclusion that wanting children means wanting to make children which is something they are currently incapable of."
  
  What was your point here?
  

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 05, 2006....

  If a lesbian wanted a kid she could find a sperm donar.  Even if it meant doing it the old fashioned way and swallowing her dignity for a few nights and letting a guy pound away at her.  If a gay wanted a child he could find a woman who wanted a child and rail her.

  It just seems to me that being homo is a concious choice.  You're not born different, something changes you at some point.

  With adoption as an option these points really moot however.  Its like saying that if you want to eat meat you should be mentally capable of killing another living thing.  Well I suppose but I've never killed a single pig, cow or chicken but I've consumed many.

• lioneljay said on Nov 05, 2006....

  It sounds like you're saying that there is a right (or more right) way to have a child and a wrong way. And that the wrong way is to have a child without being directly involved in its conception. It seems as if you're saying that those who are in homosexual relationships should have their children "the old fashioned way" as you put it, and not through adoption. Am I misreading you here? Even though you claim that your first post came out in favor of adoption by gays, this last one appears to directly contradict that position. Or are you going to claim that by saying "could find a sperm donor" instead of "should find a sperm donor" you are saying something different? It's not at all clear where you really stand here.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 05, 2006....

  I do believe that being directly involved in its conception is the "right" way to have a child.  I do strongly believe that.  We just have a system in place that allows you to bypass this and this way isn't so much wrong as "less right". 
   
  I eventually want a child, I intend on adopting for two reasons.  1 I despise young children so I wantt o skip straight into catch and video games rather than Barney and diapers.  Two I know how many kids don't get adopted and while I'm pro-abortion (I'm tired of bein PC, hell if you want to call it pro-prenatal murder I won't fight you on it)  I want to get it to a point where it is truly a last resort and that if the child is put up for adoption it has a real chance of finding a home.
   
  But yes I do believe that if you want a child you should at the least be willing to go through pregnancy, and all that crap.  Wow I contradict myself in one post, I think you should be willing but I'm sure as fuck not.  Great I need to fix my morals.  I'm going to lean towards where I already was leaning.  If you want a child and your not a danger to said child go get one by any means necessary.

• momsrock said on Nov 05, 2006....

  The only question should be whether the individual can provide a stable loving environment. I am sure there are thousands of gay couples that would be better parents than me if given the chance.

• thenack said on Nov 06, 2006....

  In reply to the topic of this post....what about a childs right to have normal straight parents. If you want to talk about human rights, you have no argument in my opinion.
   
  But to be practical, I will have to agree that a decent gay couple would be more suitable than no parents at all. So I agree with Sean for themost part on the adoption thing.
   
  My only problem being another agreement with Sean, being gay is something you choose, and I think this will influence the childs choise.
   

• thenack said on Nov 06, 2006....

  Sean, I found the following an excellent piece of reasoning. Couldn't agree more.
   
  "No I'm not saying "it's not right" if I were I'd be against adoption pretty much period.  I would say that a case could be made that by being in a homosexual relationship (or by being single) you have made a concious decision to be childless.  ITs not the same as being baren (unless you had your tubes tied voluntarily for non medical reasosn) because you made a decision.  Unless you can prove that gays are born with something different (in which case I would be willing to go back to labeling it as a disease if it is something that is infact "mis-wired" in their brain rather than a learned behavior then I don't think its fair to make that connection."

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 06, 2006....

  While I'm all about Children's rights I don't really think anything is wrong with being gay.  So I wouldn't mind them being influenced by their parents to be gay anymore than I mind you being raised by your parents to be Christian (actually in all fairness I mind a great deal less) I've yet to see any evidence that being gay is in anyway destructive externally.  It might tear the individual apart but that's mostly because people around them are stupid and I can't fault them for that anymore than I could fault an interracial couple for the stir they would cause.
   
  In short I don't think that any solid case could be made for a child's right to have "normal parents" what is normal?  White Protestant I would assume.  Single parents wouldn't fall under this, nor would military parents be normal.  We could go on and on.  Besides to a large extent we aren't talking about children who have those kinds of opportunities to begin with.  We are talking about foster children in foster homes.  This Human Right to have normal parents is almost like debating a starving man's basic human right to have quality food and thus you should be ashamed for only offering him a half bag of Cheetos.  Beggars can't be choosers.  In many cases (particularly when they are older than two years and won't "adopt" the parents as theyr own) the choices are simple go with who will take you or become yet another statistic.

• DreamDrifter said on Nov 08, 2006....

  First, becoming gay has never been linked to having gay parents or being raised around or by gay people, so as far as that goes, a child raised by a gay couple is no more or less likely to be gay than one raised by a hetrosexual couple. So that is a non-issue.
  
  Now, I've heard people say things like - a child needs a strong male/female role model to grow up ready to face the world.... you know, I've never seen that proven, only claimed, but let's assume it's true - let's even assume that a gay couple can't provide that (and that has even less evidence to prove it) well, I could point you to many hetro couples who don't seem to be able to provide good role models, and what about single parents? Should we be against a single mom or single dad having children? I don't think many people would answer yes to that. It's all smoke and mirrors. Things said because it sounds good if you want to take a stand against something but there is no proof that it is true at all.
  
  Ok, one thing that can be said - there may well be more social pressures on a child raised by gay parents. Oh but wait, isn't that the same thing people have said about mixed race marriages? And if that's an arguement then what about being concerned about the occupations of the parents. I mean, don't you think kids who have a parent that works as a are going to have social problems because of it? And what about handicapped parents? You see, whatever one thinks about gay couples, when you start suggesting that they should not be allowed to do this or that, you are stepping on a very slippery slope.
  
  I've known quite a few gay individuals, some were real jerks and others were wonderful people - just like what I've found with hetro people. SOme of them I'm sure would do a wonderful job of raising kids and others I'd worry about - again, just like hetro couples. Of all the parents I have ever met, there have been at least as many pillar of the community sorts with respectable jobs and nice traditional marriages who have failed horribly at raising their children as there have been questionable sorts. This tells me it's all a myth. There is no magic way to say that this person or that person or this group of people are/aren't fit to be parents or that kids shouldn't raised in such and such a sort of household.
  
  Being gay has nothing to do with your ability to raise kids and it should never be an issue. All the different arguements I've ever heard are just mis-direction and can be applied just as well to hetrosexual parents. That's how I see it.

• DreamDrifter said on Nov 08, 2006....

  Ooops, I just noticed that something messed up with my post but I didn't reach it before the time to edit expired so here is a correction - it says in my post:
  
  kids who have a parent that works as a are going to have social problems
  
  That should have said:
  
  kids who have a parent that works as a fill in whatever occupation you feel the general public dislikes and looks down on are going to have social problems

• DreamDrifter said on Nov 08, 2006....

  SeanRenaud:
  
  A while back you said:
  
  It just seems to me that being homo is a concious choice. You're not born different, something changes you at some point.
  
  I'm afraid that all the evidence says you are wrong, and there is a very large amount of solid scientific evidence in this matter. Being gay is not a choice any more than having red hair. Do some people make a choice to engage in gay activities when they were not born gay, I'm sure they do just as some red heads where not born with red hair, but in most cases being gay is not a choice at all, the only choice is admitting it or not.

• gingersoul said on Nov 09, 2006....

  I think Dream wrapped up all my ideas so i am not going to repeat them.....

   

   

• anonymous said on Nov 29, 2007....

  HOMOSEXUALS & "SUPPORTERS" ... QUIT YOUR DEPRAVED LIFE OF SIN AND TURN TO GOD!!! CHILDREN DO NOT NEED TO BE CONFUSED BY YOU AND YOUR GAY LOVER!!! TEACH THEM TO LOVE THE OPPOSITE SEX!!! MARRIAGE IS STRICTLY FOR PROCREATION AND YOU GAYS CAN'T DO THAT!!! TURN AWAY FROM YOUR SIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  HOMOSEXUALITY = SIN
   
  SIN = DEATH
   
  JESUS LOVES YOU!! REMEMBER THAT YOU ARE SEPARATED FROM GOD AS LONG AS YOU CONTINUE TO SIN!!!
   
  Genesis 2:24-25
  “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.  And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.”  Hebrew 13:4 says, “Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.” 
   
  Romans 1:26-27
  “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.” 
   
  1 Corinthians 6:9,
  “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.”
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  TURN AWAY FROM YOUR SIN!!!!!!!!!!

• silverwhisper said on Nov 29, 2007....

  apparently, anonymous is so convinced of his/her/its righteousness that he...
  
  
  
  ...had to post anonymously.
  
  what a moron.
  
  ed

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