• SeanRenaud said on Oct 09, 2006....

  I'm sorry that you believe war is inherently evil. Do you believe that makes soldiers inherently evil as well?
  

• dreamtime said on Oct 10, 2006....

  well... yes and no.....
  
  yes, soldiers have an inherently evil side to them. But, that is the same with all human beings... All of us have an inherently evil aspect to our personality. But, there is also goodness that is inherent in us. It's a question of which way we swing in any given situation and which way we consistently swing throughout our lives.
  
  no, they are not inherently evil. They do but obey orders. They are in situations that place extraordinary demands upon the human psyche. They are not to blame and I would not be quick to throw the "baby-killer" label at them. Most of the innocent victims of war have not been systematically or maliciously killed by soldiers. Death of the innocents is an inevitable by-product of war.
  
  That brings me to why I say that war is evil. A state of war places men in situations which create "superhuman inhumanities" (to borrow a phrase from Wilfred Owen). There are just too many casualties of war.... the innocent civilians caught in the cross-fire.... the collateral damage to civilian lives caused by bombings... the accidental deaths that occur simply because of the heightened pressure under which soldiers operate... the soldiers themselves: young men sent into battle at the bidding of politicians... maimed, killed, psychologically damaged for the rest of their lives... and a minority of soldiers that get driven into a state of murderous frenzy (one that they would not even fathom in their normal state).
  
  So, yes. I believe that war is inherently evil.
  But, soldiers are inherently human... like the rest of us.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Oct 10, 2006....

  No, they volunteered to be killers. They knowingly put themselves in a situation where they would cause collateral damage. I don't think that your stance is defendable. Either it is right and just to defend your life and the lives of those you hold dead even if it means murdering others and thus a soldier is noble or being a killer makes you evil and soldiers are evil. We don't have a draft right now so you can't entirely blame the politicians.
  

• dreamtime said on Oct 11, 2006....

  fair point. well I guess I did not consider the rather important fact that you don't have compulsory military service in the USA unlike the country where I come from where all male citizens undergo military service and are required to serve in the force as reservists until age 40.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Oct 11, 2006....

  Nor did i take into account countries where military service is compulsory. Unless otherwise defined I always assume I'm speaking to an American. Of course you haven't mentioned religion (Christianity specifically) but even when it is compulsory wouldn't a "good" person lay down their life and allow themselves to be killed rather than take another's life?
  

• dreamtime said on Oct 16, 2006....

  ok... if you are talking about the turning the other cheek bit, then the logical conclusion to which one arrives at after some theorizing is that the "moral" thing to do is to allow oneself to be killed instead of taking another's life. (I must say here that I am not a Christian and although I am familiar with the "turning the other cheek" injunction, I am also aware that many Christian denominations do not take it literally. But, it does sound very noble and is worth some exploration.)
  
  The creed of non-violence would demand such a course of action. From a detached spiritual perspective one might agree that that is the upright thing to do. But, as a ordinary human being, in the face of being attacked, the natural instinct is to react to preserve oneself. Self-preservation is such a basic instinct.
  
  When I say that war is evil, it is based on the idea that war is usually a result of narrow political aims and in the end the average civilian and soldier is left to add to the casualty numbers. Let's assume that country A is invaded by country B. It is country A's right to defend itself under international law and I believe that it is morally right that country A ought to defend itself.
  
  so, I see the following as two separate descriptive statements that are consistent with each other.
  a) This war perpetrated by country A against country B is inherently evil.
  b) Country B and its citizens are morally right in defending themselves.
  

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