Jack Straw's comment on Muslim women wearing veil as barriers between communities has once again sparked controversy in the Muslim community in Britain. He stated his discomfort when meeting a woman who was covered from head to toe only showing her eyes in one of his surgery sessions. He has requested that the women lift their veils when attending weekly surgeries in his Blackburn constituency so that they can talk 'face-to-face'.
There is a growing number of young Muslim women wearing niqab (full veil) in Britain. Many of them claim that they're wearing the full veil by choice as opposed to what the society believes. Many Muslim scholars say that wearing Niqab is not obligatory in the Koran, only that women are supposed to cover up and showing only the hands and face.
Some argues that the veil is a sign of oppression of women, communication barrier and a refusal to integrate with the British society and culture. According to YouGov poll, 31% of Muslims think that western society is decadent and immoral. So is veil a statement of distance and separation from the so-called decadent and immoral people? Or is it merely an expression of faith? It's hard to say.
The Muslims can say that it's their right to wear whatever they want. But the non-Muslims are also entitled to voice their opinion. I'd say I'm with Jack Straw on this. He has raised the issue carefully and reasonably.
In Jakarta, the capital of Indonesia, women wearing headscarf is not an uncommon sight. There is no relevant statistic that shows the percentage of Muslim women who wears the headscarf but from what I see, they're minority. Of course there are other parts of Indonesia that has stricter Islamic practices and Shari'a law like Aceh province or South Sulawesi and there are some radical Islamic groups that are trying to impose Shari's law in Indonesia, but they're happy enough with headscarves. Note that I say headscarf, not full veil or niqab. No Indonesian wears full veil. All my life, I probably have encountered only one or two women in full veil in Jakarta and I bet my life on it that they're NOT Indonesians. When I saw her or him (I don't know, I couldn't see), well, I was frightened. That coming from a girl who's been living her whole life in the world's most populous Muslim country. Suffice to say, I understand how the non-Muslim Britons would feel when they see more and more women wearing niqab on the streets.
To elaborate how I felt when I saw that women in niqab, it's a feeling of insecurity. I felt rather threatened because I couldn't see anything. It's a volatile nature for me. I didn't know what's going on inside the costume. I couldn't "read" her. That kind of feeling would stop me from trying to establish any communication with the person. That might be what Jack Straw meant when he said “wearing the full veil was bound to make better, positive relations between the two communities more difficult”.
Multi-culturalism has limits. I think Muslim women can still be good Muslims without having to wear niqab. A headscarf is enough as is written in the Koran. Those women are living in a free country, why not take the freedom to choose? I can understand the women in certain Islamic countries who are forced, sometimes at gun point to wear one, but to see a young British Muslim woman wearing niqab in London is kind of over the top. I know that there are possibilities that they're forced to wear it by their family members or often cast out by the other Muslims as being Kaffir (infidel). And if they refused to wear it, they're at risk of being killed in the name of the family's honor. So to protect them from those extreme consequences, should niqab or full veil be banned?
What do you think about the wearing of Niqab in Britain? Does it also happen in America? Are you with or against Jack Straw's opinion? Do you think it should be banned from the western countries?
missb posted on Oct 09, 2006
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Comments
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silverwhisper said on Oct 09, 2006....
wait, what exactly is the niqab? is that different from a burqa?
ed
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missb said on Oct 09, 2006....
SW, niqab is the full veil that covers from head to toe only leaving a small slit on the eyes. It's called burqa in Afghanistan and Pakistan, I think :/
They're basically the same, long tent-like outer gown.
Cheers :)
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varada said on Oct 09, 2006....
They wear veil to hide themselves. But they can see others. That is not correct. They wear so much of facial make up only to hide it from public gaze.
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anonymous said on Oct 09, 2006....
Many men put on veil to protect themselves from identification. They can go into houses of their g/f and have a jolly time.
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secretlife said on Oct 09, 2006....
missb: i think my reaction would be similar to yours- i'd be put off because I couldn't see a face and expressions, and probably put off enough not to engage in conversations...
I'm sure mr straw has a valid point that this type of garb doesn't foster a feeling of community, but rather isolates the wearer.
that being said, it's my belief that everyone has the right to wear whatever they want to wear- whether for religious reasons, or personal.
btw, i've never actually seen anyone wearing this type of garment here...
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missb said on Oct 09, 2006....
Varada,
I agree. They're actually imprisoned by their own clothes.
Anonymous,
You're right. Some identified terrorist used the veil to hide and was just caught. This raises even more concern about the use of full veil in Britain. It can be misused.
Secretlife,
That's how I feel exactly. I wouldn't feel comfortable talking with someone that I can't see. The wearer does distance herself and in some ways indicate that they don't want to be engaged with you. So you never seen anyone in niqab there? Do you have some kind of law about it? Or people just don't wear it there like in Britain?
Cheers :)
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silverwhisper said on Oct 10, 2006....
one never sees niqabs/burqas in the US. frankly, i don't think i would care if someone did but i also think that there are enough ignorant jerks in the US to make such attire extremely unwise.
ed
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varada said on Oct 10, 2006....
A woman wearing a veil wanted a driving licence and her photograph showed her with her veil. She was refused the licence and she went to the court.
How can the police identify a woman wearing a veil when she commits a traffic offence?
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missb said on Oct 10, 2006....
Ed,
LOL... I bet there are :) I guess there are less muslim women who wears burqa there than in Britain. It's a good thing, I think.
Verada,
I totally agree. They can't identify anyone with a veil on.
I just watched an Indonesian TV pogram about the wearing of burqa in Islam. One of the callers asked how to socialize with others because she wears it and that the neighbors feel uncomfortable. The imam (Islamic preacher) said himself that it is not compulsory to wear niqab, that showing the face is ok so that she would be able to socialize better.
Well, turned out someone in Indonesia does wear niqab. That was new. Secondly, the wearer herself acknowledges the distance she is making with the non-wearer. I guess it sums it all up, doesn't it?
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ThrobbingPaganSexGod said on Oct 14, 2006....
I think that people have the right to wear what they want as long as it's not obscene. If Muslims wear niqab to protest Western morality, then forcing them to stop wearing niqab will only anger them more. It's like telling someone, "You don't like it when people get drunk? Well, the majority of the world likes to drink. Now drink this beer and shut up."
That said, niqab makes socialization incredibly hard when you're among people who aren't used to it. I wore full veils twice--I'm white and Christian-raised, but my father worked in Saudia Arabia for a while and brought back a set of women's clothes for me at my request--and both times, people shied away from me. Even people I knew for years, who knew exactly was under the veil, were so uncomfortable at not being able to see my face that conversations petered out after a few exchanges. Muslim women who wear niqab are no doubt having the same experiences, which is probably turning out to be an efficient way to limit their interactions with the non-Muslim world.
As for wearing full veils in America, I've lived near a couple of large, multicultural cities, and the only women I've seen veiled have been tourists. Among women who live here, even head scarves are rare. The political climate is so strongly against anything Middle Eastern or Muslim that it's just not wise to do anything to advertise your affiliation with them.
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missb said on Oct 15, 2006....
Throbbing,
I totally agree with the freedom to wear whatever people want. I'm just saying that Jack Straw has a point. The veil is making community relations and integration difficult.
If they're protesting against western morality, that's fine. But I don't feel comfortable knowing that they think I'm some kind of a disgusting low life that they feel the need to distance themselves from me (the non-wearer). It means they actually refuse to integrate, while they're actually living in MY country (hypothetically speaking, I'm not british). If they're born there, then they are british citizen and are bound to respect its community and culture instead of distancing themselves, because like it or not, they're british.
Oh well, do I make sense? Anyway, thanks for the concern but I'm not really advertising my affiliation :) I was just voicing my personal opinion. Btw, I do think that "the political climate is against anything muslim/middle eastern" right now has a reason. Anyway, don't listen to me. I'm just ranting ;)
Cheers!
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Astrapsee said on Oct 15, 2006....
I respect individual rights, if a Muslim woman wants to wear a veil, she should have the right.
But no preferential treatment. I read sometime ago that in some place (in the USA) where there is a large Somali population, hospitals are letting Somali women treated only by female nurses or doctors for fear they otherwise wont come. That's prefertiantial treatment & discrimination. What next, Muslim women only wanting to work with Muslim coworkers resulting in segregated workplaces?? Same for Muslim schoolgirls in France who want headscarves, you're in France, that's French school uniform, deal with it. If modest dress is so overwhelmingly important to you, why did you leave Algeria or Syria in the first place?
What it is about Muslim men though? Are they such sex perverts that if they see even a woman's lips or nose they'll go into an uncontrollable lust-driven rampage? Or is it pure control? Well in some Arab countries there is honor killings (always girls, so men never dishonor their families!), so the control factor may be dominant. I guess some Muslim women sould say, they don't want any man to see them except their in their family. So why aren't women getting 'polluted' seeing men's faces?
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missb said on Oct 16, 2006....
Astrapsee,
I respect equal individual rights too and I couldn't agree with you more about the preferential treatment.
Sometimes I'm just wondering why on earth that the world always has to succumb to radical islam. It always has to be their ways, you know. Everything that's been happening around the world, on newspapers' headlines or not, the non-muslims always lose. From the danish cartoon, the veil to the pope's quote. And don't even start with artistic expression; from the movie "submission" to the recent cancelled performances of Mozart in Europe even before any protests happened. It seems like we're constantly apologizing.
I read someone's post in SC (I forgot who) about what happened in an italian school. They had been having a cross on the wall in every class for probably hundreds of years, and there was one, one muslim kid in the class. The father went to talk and argued with the school and he made them take off the cross. One kid, changed the history and tradition in a christian country's school. Only muslims can feel offended, the rest has to shut up.
It's like everyone is afraid to offend/critize islam. That's not really fair I'd say. Other religions have been critized and bashed, but nobody burned buildings down, killed innocents and making death threats.
Anyway, sorry for rambling, again :/
About muslim men and the veil, well, I think they think that women are basically a walking vagina. The women are blamed for their own lust. Women are evil and dirty, so they have to cover up to keep the men out of sin. [sighs]
Cheers :)
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anonymous said on Oct 16, 2006....
Inspite of the strict religious laws, muslim women indulge in all sorts of tricks to cheat their menfolk. They bring their boyfriends home clad in a veil without the knowledge of their husbands and enjoy life.
They are able to see outside world and handsome men around and watch their movements, whereas men cannot judge from the exposed eyes what they intend to convey.
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missb said on Oct 16, 2006....
Anonymous,
Well, I'm sure those women will be stoned to death once they're caught by their husbands doing adultery like that.
With all the arranged-marriages some muslim women have to go through, no wonder if they could commit "adultery".
Cheers :)
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anonymous said on Oct 16, 2006....
Stoning is only in barbaric countries like Saudi, Afganisthan, etc. In demcratic countries like Pakisthan, India, Indonesia they are not stoned, but oppressed.
Women have no rights in any of these countries. They cannot pray in all the mosques, only in certain specified mosques. Because of polygamy is practiced very diligently young teen age girls are married away who on becoming pregnant are divorced and the husband goes for another marriage. Shariat permits this practice. Most of the poor girls on becoming pregnant are deserted by their husbands and they take up to prostitution for earning a living. Muslim community is aware of this tragedy, but nobody interferes for fear of the wrath of the clergy.
Veil is a small issue, minor issue. Major issue is the absence of rights to muslim women, all over the world.
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missb said on Oct 19, 2006....
Anonymous,
You're right. Stoning only happens in certain islamic countries. I'm not gonna speak about women in pakistan or india, but i'll speak about indonesia.
Women's rights are limited here compared to the western countries. But I think in jakarta (the capital) things are so much better for the muslim women than in other places. There are unlucky women in small villages or in places like Aceh province where islamic law is imposed. They are oppressed and don't have much choice.
It's really sad, innit? :( I really feel bad for those women. And you're right, veil is nothing but a minor issue. There are a hundred worse things that could happen to them than just being forced to wear a veil.
Cheers :)
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Bobz said on Oct 25, 2006....
Wow..,
First of all, wow... didnt see this coming for sure..
I know its kinda late but I'd like to say a few comment on this one if you dont mind.. ;)
Firstly, the whole thing about wearing it was never meant to be forced in the first place in the religion...
it was highly suggested at the time to avoid distractions that MIGHT come up in an interaction between a man and a women. It was supposed to purify the whole perception of women and to encourage men to see women as a person, rather than an object. I'm not saying that it works... Believe it or not, even up untill this day women are still viewed as a second class society in the middle east......
The choice,
I do believe that the choice of wearing one remains the right of the person herself, and no one else's.
The more they put force into wearing them, the worse the morale of the average men in the area.....
Why? because this gives them reasons to judge morality of women by what they wear...
It also gives them reasons to stare and glare freely at those who are not wearing them....
The Aceh and the local Content...
As I sat in the middle of that hot discussion concerning the laws they had about women wearing veils, I wonder.. who the hell wrote the damn laws??? it turned out that it wasnt just THEM who had wanted this regulated... THEY had backup from the local women group aswell for all sorts of reasons...
WHat does this show? that they do choose to wear them, its just that they want everyone to wear one aswell becoz they would feel comfortable seeing other women covered as well as they are........
And for those who are married or in a commitment, said that they would feel much more comfortable knowing that the ladies that their spouses are interacting with every day are as well covered as they are...
What does this tell you?
Okay, I feel that I'm going off the subject now...
Now England..., been there, lived there.... I think the whole thing is only caused by the english not being able to tolerate the difference in what they see..... but hey, I dont think that the english are intolerant.. I believe they are incredibly tolerant... then I guess it was just Straw who's having the problem?? not quite... he must at least have a few backups before going up to say such things....
A question for you, my dear Miss B... when you said "I didn't know what's going on inside the costume", how did you know that you would definitely know for sure what was going on in the costume if they werent wearing any thing? We all know some people can wear masks sometimes without needing anything to be put on physically on their face.... ;) I've known girls wearing them who are opened minded.. I've known girls who appears to be dangerously open who turned out to posses incredible amounts of skeletons hidden ever so neatly in their back closet....
Let them wear what their beliefs tells them to..., as long as it is not meant as a symbol, as not as it is not oppressed, as long as they wear them because they feel that live is more comfortable when wearing them.., some of them really do you know.... dont ask why, they just do...
I think Mr. Straw telling the kids who do, not to wear them is excactly the same as them freakin Talibans forcing the women who don't at gun point...
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