• sg138 said on Nov 04, 2009....

  In short yes there are rules for the sub / slave as well there are rules for the Master / Dom . There are to be set in the very beging of a scene by both parties. If you go to my blog there are a set of guide lines for the Dom  that I go by , feel free to read them. SG138 

• submissiverose said on Nov 04, 2009....

  okay.. you've stumbled on a fairly huge debate here. Nobody can really answer this, as there's so many people with widely varying opinions.
   
  Some people see a slave as deserving respect and courtesy. Others see slaves more as property that should be treated more like an animal type of pet than a human. Along with these are about 15 thousand different shades of grey with people standing more on one side or towards the middle.
   
  A slave is not a submissive. A submissive gets to negotiate scene by scene (as SG has pointed out) and a submissive gets to say 'No'. A Dom must respect these. As the limits are set, the submissive's experience is catered more towards their own preferences and wants. This isn't to say that a submissive can't please their Dom- sometimes, the wants and needs of the Dom are exactly what the submissive is prepared to give and vice versa.
   
  Slaves are not necessarily getting taken advantage of in their situation. It's very very difficult to understand the mindset of some people, especially slaves, because their own wants and needs are completely entangled with their Master's wants and needs, it's impossible to tell where one stops and the other starts. We can't judge what goes on in M/s relationships because of that, because what we might think is disrespect is actually how somebody yearns to be treated.
   
  So while saying it's inhumane to keep a slave in a cage, some slaves love sleeping in cages and feel it's where they should be!
   
  However-- while all this is well and good- yes, sometimes kink crosses the line and people get into arrangements that are harmful. Unfortunately, the people in that relationship are the only ones who can determine just where that line is. We might not like a Master's treatment of His slave- but she is just that-- His slave.
   
  -r. xXx
   
   

• AlleyCatMomma said on Nov 05, 2009....

  Sg138: I'm going to take a look at your blog and explore this further thanks for responding I really appreciate your input!
   
  submissiverose: This is probably why I'm confused because there is so much gray area. Of course not being in the lifestyle I have little knowledge of "rules" or codes of conduct. I really appreciate you responding because it does help me see that there is a very distinct difference between a slave and a sub. I'm actually not judging the relationship and don't want to embarrass anyone. It's not the things that the sub is being asked to do but rather the lack of attention and respect they seem to be having. However, like you said they may, because of being in slave position have no rights whatsoever when it comes to this. I really have no issue with what peoples kinks are whether I understand them or not or choose to practice them. I myself like it rough and hey that's just how it is.You're right that there is no way for me to tell from an outside perspective what is "right" or not within an individuals relationship. I suppose I was more curious than anything. Thank you for writing it's very good to get your perspective!

• submissiverose said on Nov 05, 2009....

  glad to be of service. ^-^
   
  i'm constantly getting into 'debates' (read: catfights) because some of my subbie friends can't understand what it's like for me to have the mindset of a slave. heck, i don't understand it sometimes. i'm treated extremely well- Master has no interest in making me sleep on the floor or anything similar, but we do have some areas where my complete submission to Him sets us apart from D/s couples. anything i can shed light on i'd be glad to help with.
   
  -r. xXx

• sg138 said on Nov 06, 2009....

  there is no realy set of what is a slave vs sub it is up to the couple to define it for what they both want out of the relationship, I know a slave that is not to submissive.

• zincsalt8199 said 13 days ago....

  This is for female slave & male master case.
  What does "she submitting to her man" mean to me?
  He provides her love[in sex, emotion, protection & security], food, clothing/shelter[not mortgage!], and she is willing to obey him thus fully satisfy him sexually... her sexual submission for her alpha male =)
  
  According to a wife's legal rights specified at Exodus 21:10
  Ex 21:10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. 11 And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.
  
  I know for now these old laws are not in effect, but there are great principles behind them for our learning, isn't it?
  
  

• AlleyCatMomma said 12 days ago....

  submissiverose: well no debates here just honest curiousity and hope that everyone is getting what they need from the situation. Thanks again for you comments I love hearing from you!
  
  
  sg138: That's interesting to know. I guess it really does depend on the people involved and what they want from the arrangement.
  
  
  Zincsalt: Thanks for responding. I like hearing perspectives from people who are in this type of relationship and it's very interesting the passages that you picked. 
  
  
  Question for all in this type of situation, did you make rules and or talk about what was expected/wanted by the people involved?  Are there punishments or at least consequences for breaking this arrangement on either end? Can you walk away whenever someone is no longer happy?

• zincsalt8199 said 12 days ago....

  Specific rules may change from time to time as people's minds change from time to time... but the principles stand on their own and do not change... like those I mentioned above =)
  Sure, it's best to talk about what you are getting into before you do, thus it boosts up positive believing and eliminates fear.
  
  Punishments and other issues...
  Google for ...
  domestic discipline+ life style or marriage or relationship or HOH or spanking...
  Taken in Hand
  60 Minutes Australia Under the thumb
  Surrendered Wife - Laura Doyle
  Fascinating Womanhood by Helen Andelin
  Just Fuck Me! - What Women Want Men to Know about Taking Control in the Bedroom
  Radical Womanhood: Feminine Faith in a Feminist World, Biblical Femininity by Carolyn McCulley
  
  It's the best if people want to be faithful to each other, long lasting, seriously committed and deeply involved, which is kinda like a willing slavery situation as I described above... because responsibility and obligation go hand in hand...
  ... if all fail, maybe you need to believe in God, who is the inventor of all above principles, I just copied them... cheers & have fun...
  

• submissiverose said 12 days ago....

  Question for all in this type of situation, did you make rules and or talk about what was expected/wanted by the people involved?
   
  M/s doesn't happen overnight. Nobody gets into a new relationship as a Master and slave, at least in the BDSM sense of the word- (not like what zinc is talking about). Most couples start off in D/s, where the Dom can learn all about what makes His submissive tick, and the sub can learn what is expected. After some time, a discussion will be had about changing to a M/s dynamic. Sometimes this doesn't happen at all and the couple are happy to stay in D/s. If the submissive is willing to give everything of her/himself over to their Dom, accept whatever the Dom says and wants, and become property of the Dom, they are ready to accept a slave collar. By now they know each other very well and what is expected is known and shared throughout the previous D/s relationship. A slave does not make any rules, nor do they have limits. They must trust completely in their Master's judgement and obey it.
   
    Are there punishments or at least consequences for breaking this arrangement on either end?
   
  This one depends completely on the couple. i know many M/s couples that do not feature a punishment dynamic, however mine does. Disobedience and disrespect are harshly punished, nothing is taken lightly especially in M/s because it is expected that the slave will reflect the Master- any bad action is saying something about Him/Her.
   
  Can you walk away whenever someone is no longer happy?
   
  No. This i've had trouble with too- when i get hurt i throw everything up in the air and try to run away. You cannot just walk away from M/s. They say a collar is the wedding band of the Lifestyle- it's a traditional marriage type agreement. It's entered into for life, or until there comes a time when nothing can be done to salvage the relationship.
   
  -r. xXx

• MLM'sPretty said 12 days ago....

  Well I should not have been away for so long seems I am far behind on this one.  Here is goes from a slave's point of view.  Within the first twenty four hours of talking my Master and i already had our first discussion about this style of relationship.  We did not actually get together for about a month so i guess that was our time to learn about each others wants.  I was never a sub coming into the relationship, and yes i agree there is a very different frame of mind between a sub and slave.  Everything that rose said was correct, at least for my relationship.  Everything i am is for my Master (once again there comes in the mindset a slave has).  Everyone that i tell this to thinks i am crazy or something.  They dont understand exactly how you can live for someone and it not be yourself, and i dont know how to explain it to them.  You just are or you arent, kind of like being homosexual.  Everything i get to do i earn.  For instance, if i want to spend time with my Master i have to make sure i am extra pleasing to Her.  I even earn kisses and hugs.  Like before though it is all very easy if you have the mindset.

  W/we most def have set rules for me, but there aren't any for my Master.  This comes from the number one goal being for Her happiness.  But being a Master they do have responsibilities to their slave to keep them protected and taken care of so they will have upmost service to them.

    Are there punishments or at least consequences for breaking this arrangement on either end?

  on my end yes there is great punishment.  *I know a lot of you may think beatings everytime or something like that, but it isnt that at all.  my Master knows that an hour without Her is an eternity for me, so She will punish me with no contact with Her*

  for the Master no there isnt because like before they make up their mind for what they want and that is all that is suppose to matter to the slave

  Can you walk away whenever someone is no longer happy?
   
  That is a very tough one!  As a slave no you arent suppose to be able to that is the whole point.  But we are still human, and a good Master would know when it just isnt working.  I agree with the collar statement by rose.  It is like a wedding band, and actually probably more than that, at least to me it means more to wear my Master's collar.  I guess you can turn that all back to the mindset.
   
  Hope some of this gave a little insight.  I pretty much just agreed with rose :)  At least coming form a point of view as a slave that went through all that bs with my Master recently figured I would put my two cents in.  Love the questions... keep them coming!

• WyldWyl said 12 days ago....

  A slave bill of rights would be an interesting notion. Interesting as a thought exercise but impossible to actually write, because every Ms relationship is as different as the two people who are in it. Some people want to give up literally everything about themselves and their lives to another, and some of them are even lucky enough to find someone worthy of being trusted with that. Others need to retain some sense of independence or a formalised agreement about what part of themselves is off limits.
  
  In an ideal world, such a document would be unnecessary because every potential master would be a person of unimpeachable honour, moral courage, sensitivity and compassion, incapable of making any mistake or error of judgement whatsoever. In the real world, it comes down to two things- the humility and respect of the Master, and the dedication and judgement of the slave.The latter because a slave must be able to tell the abusers and the unready from the masters they need as well as being dedicated enough to this way of life to stick to it even when times are hard or they are being challenged, the former because a dom who has both of those traits will find it rare that their slave has any desire to leave.
  
  As for your questions specifically: yes, it takes a lot of communication from both sides before an Ms relationship can be honestly entered into. There is no punishment in the formal sense for breaking the relationship, but as in any relationship, the emotional fallout of a breakup can be very painful.And yes, you can- but as my rose pointed out, the entering into an Ms relationship is a making a serious commitment to each other. If you care about each other enough to make that commitment, then you should care enough to take every step you can to make things better before working away. It's not to be done lightly.
  
  I hope that's helped a little.
  

• AlleyCatMomma said 12 days ago....

  Zincsalt: It's clear from yours and other's responses that this is a true commitment and nothing to enter into lightly. I think that make a huge difference no matter what kind of relationship you're in. Thank you for the links I'm definitely going to read up!
  
  
  Submissiverose: What you've said makes a lot of sense. I think that a relationship developing along those lines would be an easier transition then just jumping into it full on. I think like anywhere else the relationship would build on mutual trust and dare I say respect. I think I'm beginning to understand how much the collar really means and how devoted you must be to decide to wear one. I sit true that once placed only the Master has the right to remove it?
  
  
  MLM: Thank you for your comments first of all. I think you touched upon something that I really wanted to know which was what qualities does  good Master have in regards to their slaves and what if anything is expected from that end. Punishments can be mental as well as physical I see and I'm sure the mental ones can be far more challenging. Walking away it seems from this must be as hard or harder than walking away from a marriage although I tend to think that in the case of the people who have commented here they take their promises far more seriously than many married couples. Thanks so much for the insight!
  
  
  WyldWyl: I believe I am right in the ascertaition that you are the Dom/Master, so thank you so much for writing a response! I really enjoyed your comments because I agree that every relationship is different and flexible to fit each individual. I think it's fair to say from what I've read that you truly care for those people who choose to be your sub/slave. From what I've read from Rose I believe it is a very mutually beneficial arrangement. Of course Doms/Masters are not perfect, they are human but I'm glad you mentioned abusers because I believe there truly are people who could very easily abuse this position of power and truly damage someone both physically and mentally. As I've said it sounds like to enter into this arrangement in the real sense would be to make an immense commitment on both sides and the emotional fallout would certainly be great. I wonder if it has ever happened that a slave has reached a breaking point and the master would not let them go or vise versa perhaps. 
  
  
  Thank you all for your insight and thoughts!

• submissiverose said 11 days ago....

  i'd like to publicly thank my Master for His contribution to the conversation, He's as always made wonderful points that i never even think to mention.
   
  Is it true that once placed only the Master has the right to remove it?
   
  as far as i know, yes. this is true. when i was doing my emotional 'AHH THE WORLD HATES ME I HAVE TO RUN AWAY NOWWWWW' drama stuff i told Master that i was returning His collar. He said no, He wouldn't accept it. Though everybody's different, i can't imagine those words having a different effect on anybody. we can't return something that doesn't belong to us in the first place. i'm glad He said them.
   
  -r. xXx

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