• SeanRenaud said on Sep 25, 2006....

  Good luck. Though I disagree with you. Granted I don't really blame religion for all the wars in the world but I do think that it controls a lot of the disagreements particularly on the average joe level. With that said if you believe that religions are causing wars you should be actively trying to convert people to Aethism. Otherwise you are silently condoning their actions and you are at least partially responsible for the wars and the deaths that result.
  

• missb said on Sep 25, 2006....

  Sean,
  
  If you try to convert people to atheism, then what difference are you from those religious people who try to convert you to their religions?
  
  Those so-called christians who try to ram their beliefs down your throat that you hate so much.
  
  I guess religions or no religions would be the same if everyone's trying to convert.
  
  Cheers!
  

• SeanRenaud said on Sep 25, 2006....

  Not at all Missb. For starters I respect religious people who try to cram their beliefs down my throat. I might not like them but I respect that they actually believe something rather than pretend. Morality and logic are not relative to an individual, they are at most relative to a situation.
  
  What you are saying is roughly that if I see a man doing something I know to be harmful to himself and because we are all together myself and those that I love that I should ignore it. That is wrong.
  

• georgeschiffman said on Sep 25, 2006....

  The problem with "holy rolling believers" is if you don't believe as they do, you are against them. And there is no room for a discussion, so it immediately turns into an arguement. And I'm not talking about anyone. I'm more referring to those who actually believe all those animals actually fit on that boat. Dinosaurs too, I guess. Anyway, my initial blog was meant to be taken with a little humor. I'm not actually trying to recruit anyone; I was just making a statement so people could have a point for discusiion.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Sep 25, 2006....

  I know you aren't, and I'm saying that when all is said and done they are going to win. The people who believe tha tall those fluffy animals fit on a boat are actively agressivly converting people into that belief and everything that comes with it, (like creationism) and you are sitting back and watching and one day you'll wonder how the world got to be this fucked up.
  

• missb said on Sep 25, 2006....

  George,
  
  I know some people are like that. But I'm not exactly one of them. The truth is that I don't even know my bible. Sean would call me a halvie :)
  
  I'm open for a good discussion. But I'm just stunned to see how people tend to see just the bad sides of christianity and the bible. Granted, that I'm not the best example of a catholic, but I still have that faith in God. And even if you're not one of "us", I don't think that you're against us. I just think Atheists stand outside the circle.
  
  Sean,
  
  ...if I see a man doing something I know to be harmful to himself and because we are all together myself and those that I love that I should ignore it. That is wrong
  
  Truth is, it takes me quite a while to understand your sentences :/ Or was it my English? Anyway, what is harmful to you might not be harmful to others. You can't measure up according to your own standard.
  
  As an atheist, have you studied all other organized religions? Cuz you seem to be bashing christianity only and not others. Either it's all you know, or you just have this specific hatred towards it.
  
  IMHO, if the world's ever gonna be too fucked up, it's not christianity that's to blame while there are those islamic radicals blowing themselves up, trying to make the whole world submit to islam, bombing churches, burning things everytime someone says something slightly bad about them, killing innocents, and all that. Do you see us christians doing that? Put the abortion clinic bombers out of the equation, and not because I'm biased, but cuz they're merely a small fraction of misguided christians, compared to the islamic terrorists. The worst they (christians) can do is bore you to death with their lectures about Jesus.
  
  Christianity is a peaceful religion, and i mean it. I guess you even know that too. The bible has been edited, that's a given. But it doesn't mean that it's no longer about love, peace and forgiveness.
  
  I can say it's your war. Not mine. America has a long way to go with those islamic terrorists, not with christianity.
  
  PEACE :)
  

• curmudgeon said on Sep 25, 2006....

  Seems to me I remember a couple of atheists named Stalin and Mao who committed genocide on a scale far greater than the Holocaust. China is persecuting Falun Gong even today, and all they seem to do is breathing exercises!
  
  Perhaps it's not your intention to use your brand of atheism to start a war, but who's to say an apostle of yours won't?
  
  It's not the religion per se. It's the intent and action of the adherent. The choice is always up to the adherent.
  
  And why in the world does your tag single out Christianity? Why not Judaism, or Islam, or Shinto, or Hinduism? They've all fought wars and massacred innocents. Is this some kind of perverse allergy atheists have? Mention the Anointed One and these people just go into fits and hives.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Sep 26, 2006....

  How bout just shy of half the world's population is Christian. Take into account that even the pope is criticising Islam (even if he didn't say that in his speech I think he's sitting back and smiling that he got the results he wanted without doing anything wrong) so I'm not needed on that front. C'mon making fun of Jews is a national, no wait GLOBAL past time so again I'm not needed there. How many Shintos, or Hindus do you run into in America on a regular basis?
  
  Stalin was a bastard, so was Mao though in all fairness Stalin murdered people based on Communism which is a blind faith ideal. It is a religion of sorts, just it deals in flesh and money rather than spirits and rewards. But I'm willing to count him as a fellow Aetheist. Same goes for Mao. The holocaust wasn't really about religion either, it was about Eugenics, so I'll claim that one as an aethist problem too if you like.
  
  The thing is you can stake crack pot ontop of crack pot and that's all they are is crack pots. I don't blame Islam for suicide Bombers, Osama Bin Ladin or Christian Nun's assassinated. I blame them for having a legal system in place that murders converts. I blame them for women being being victims of honor killings and in Europe Honor Suicides to defend their families honor. I blame them riots around the world over cartoons.
  
  I blame Christians for blocking the HPV vaccine. I blame them not for bombing abortion clinics, but for trying to ban abortion. I blame them fighting science at nearly every turn wether it was the old days of fighting that the sun revolved around the earth long after we knew better, or today when it is creationism vs evolution. I blame them for being afraid of a one world government not for any of the legit reasons, but rather because it would bring upon the end of the world. I blame Christians for the obviously harmeful attitude that ignorance is bliss as it pertains to sex, though it has been proven wrong and harmful. They are working against themselves and refuse to see it. All these claims could be laid at the feet of both Jews and Muslims. Thing is that they don't make up a large enough percentage of America to considered a voting issue.
  

• missb said on Sep 26, 2006....

  So, do you blame christians, or Christianity?
  
  Geez, I dunno what christians are like in the states. But reading A LOT about why people hate them so much in America, makes me wonder :/
  
  Still, it doesn't change my opinions.
  
  Cheers!
  

• SeanRenaud said on Sep 26, 2006....

  I really think that Christians in Europe aren't Christian so much as "spiritual" which I might add is kinda different from being a halfie. If you are truly tolerant of other religions you obviously don't belong to one. There is NO religion that is truly accepting of other religions. So if you at the very least don't think that those who worship in a different way from you is wrong then you aren't even a halfie. You're spiritual, which I have no problems with.
  
  I find it paradoxical to separate Christians from Christianity. I do however make deliniations between practicing or fundamental Christians and halfies. Just like out of 1.4 billion muslims roughly .10 of them consider themselves practicing or devout. Odd how close that is to the estimated number of extremists. . .
  

• missb said on Sep 26, 2006....

  Hmm....actually, I think I am a halvie. There are religions I don't consider "right".
  
  You find it paradoxical to separate christians from christianity but not muslims from islam?
  

• SeanRenaud said on Sep 26, 2006....

  I try not to separate Muslims from Islam as well. When I do so by trying to ignore the big things. I don't talk about the Crusades or the Inquisition or the Salem Witch hunts. Nor do I talk about 9/11 or other similar acts in the past by the nation of Islam. Instead I focus on the the acts that the majority of their "casuals" if you will or "halfies" (I like you, you don't take too much offense at that) don't condemn.
  
  You could probably bring out plenty of exceptions to each rule and nut cases that claimed a religion but if the religion as a whole denounces them then I have to give benefit of the doubt. I don't hear Christians as a whole supporting the bombing of abortion clinics (granted I don't hear to much on the side of condemning, but the intentional lack of body count makes it difficult for anybody to really care) so I assume that christians say it is bad. If the majority (or even a strong showing) of Muslims leaders had denounced the riots surrounding those cartoons (or a few weeks ago with the Pope) I would have a lot more respect for that religion.
  
  In short I won't argue with you about Osama Bin Laden or Torqmada (I know I slaughtered the spelling but he was a big deal in the inquisition) these are abberations and I try not to bring the abberations into the argument.
  

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