Barack Obama finds himself on a lifeboat with thirteen Democrat parrots and seven Republicans.
Seeking to effect a rescue, Obama aims the flare pistol at the wooden deck of the lifeboat.
The Republicans tell him that if he fires, he will sink the entire lifeboat.
Obama issues a reply through his parrot in chief Gibbs that his solution is better than doing nothing, that the status quo just isn't working, and that while this is his lifeboat, it was President Bush who put them all there in the first place.
The Republicans suggest that Obama aim the flare pistol in the air, that he hold the pistol with both hands, that he not release the safety until he's ready to fire, to hold off firing the flare until a ship appears over the horizon, that perhaps he should not give his platitude and bromide-filled, bumper-sticker speeches while holding a loaded flare pistol.
Again, through the sqwawking Gibbs, Obama replies that he can walk and chew gum at the same time, that the Republicans have offered nothing constructive to fix the situation, and lest we all forget, George Bush put us all here in the first place. Nancy Pelosi proclaims that the Democrats "have the votes" to allow Obama to fire the flare wherever he wishes to aim it, and aim he will at the deck of the lifeboat!
Obama than calls a town hall meeting consisting only of Democratic parrots and reads from his teleprompter
that firing into the deck of the lifeboat will also help the economy. He doesn't say, how, of course, just that this is all Bush's fault.
Though the leadership of the Democrats are about as brain-dead as that doddering loudmouth Joe Biden, the Seven Republicans have no choice but to continue speaking with their colleagues, speaking with Obama, and trying somehow to persuade him to go no further until common sense solutions are arrived at and agreed upon.
This massive health care legislation the Dems are about to ram through will affect Americans for generations to come. If it passes, it will pass with very few of its proponents - including Obama himself - from having actually read the document before it comes to a vote!
So many on the left harangued President Bush on his "rush to war" in Iraq. After six or so years we are about to end our major military presence there. We will not exit a major overhaul of health care so easily or nearly so soon. So where's the criticism of Obama's rush to revamp the health care system? Six months in office and he's already looking to establish his legacy? Does he really want his legacy to be one that caused more misery than it alleviated? The hastily passed stimulus bill has resulted in higher unemployment, with only a tiny portion of the funds actually reaching the public in any meaningful way. All it did was shore up government programs - which saved no jobs but government jobs.
Regading health care, American lives hang in the balance! Shouldn't the Dems slow down and devise legislation that has been well considered and has buy in from at least most of the people concerned - doctors (not the AMA), pharma companies (not just those who are looking to benefit through collaboration), patients, government watchdogs and so on?
If he wants health care legislation passed, Obama needs to quit being pushy and offering strawman arguments and buck passing and honestly anwer critical questions!
curmudgeon posted on Jul 22, 2009
| views: 85
Comments
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RandolphWinstonTheThird said on Jul 23, 2009....
Just like many an ignorant yank you dont understand a damn thing - Australia as well as england and canada has so called socialized health care and all our countries are fine. Sure we have problems with it and funding is always an issue but our issues are the size of an ameoba compared to the monumental crisis in the U.S. Over 45 million americans have no health insurance ie, they get an easily fixable otherwise lethal disorder they die. For the so called leader of the free world it doesn't sound very free to me. Maybe america should be refered to by its more accurate discription as leader of the money hungry, morally corrupt, unregulated capitalist paradise of the world. And maybe the republicans should bring out bumper stickers for their next election campaign saying " If you dont have money we dont care if you die.' Your healthcare -like your manufacturing industry- Is a joke primarily because of this everything for the mighty dollar approach, soon China will be the world power and The world will have america to thank for the end of democracy - and why? Well because to the Americans democracy meant unbridled capitalism so they shipped all their most profitable industrys off shore to china who then surprise surprise became the new world power. If you look at the history books rome ended the same way because ignorant merchants like yourself paid off romes enemies one by one to avoid war until rome had no money left and all its surrounding powers were more powerful than it. -
curmudgeon said on Jul 23, 2009....
"they get an easily fixable otherwise lethal disorder they die."
Who is ignorant here? Everyone here has access to hospitals, even illegal immigrants. What we are talking about in the States is INSURANCE - not treatment. Unlike the system in Canada where folks are sent abroad at government (READ: TAXPAYER) expense when their messed up system cannot deliver treatment in a timely manner.
And if you know anything at all about the liberal proposals, you would understand that it is all about reducing access in order to lower costs. To wit:
Emphasizing primary care over specialists. The Wall Street Journal just published an interesting editorial about how bad primary care doctors are at diagnosing specific cardiac problems based on symptoms presented. How many patients will die because of misdiagnosed diseases? Seeing as the Dems aren't into tort reform, my guess is the government medical system will either implode from the class action lawsuits brought by the grieving families of easily treated patients, or we'll see a drastic reduction in access to justice via our court system.
Promoting a facile "comparative effectiveness" series of assessments and appointing some board to oversee standard, cookie-cutter treatment plans. Obama recently gave an idiotic red-pill, blue pill analogy that demonstrates his complete ignorance when it comes to medical issues. Anyone who lives in the States understands that cancer and heart disease are the two main killers of elderly patients, AND that our population is aging rapidly. Anyone who knows anything about Oncology is that it's 70% off-label, meaning that it's most often not a choice between an expensive red pill and a cheaper blue, or that doctors actually follow FDA-approved treatment regimens. Rather, they combine three or four very expensive but life-saving drugs. Cardiologists follow similar elaborate protocols. How long will some board of bean counters take to approve every single drug permutation for American cancer patients? How many patients will die because their doctors were forced to prescribe ineffective drugs simply because they're on the government formulary?
What happens when Eurotrash and sickos from Down Under can't get treatment in their own sorry ass socialist uptopias? Damn right they come to the US where they don't have to wait for months on end to see a specialist.
Your silly response belies a typical leftist hatred of the American Way so common among jealous losers from across the ocean. My guess is you're an alt of one of the other leftist soul-freaks from across the pond who vent their miserable anger at conservatives who simply hold opinions other than your own. Ask yourself: If you're so happy with the way things are at home, why the heck are you bothering to meddle in discussions on American health care? This isn't foreign policy. This is an internal domestic issue.
Thanks for your comments, but with the way you entered this conversation, somehow I doubt you're going to last long around here.
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RandolphWinstonTheThird said on Jul 23, 2009....
oh ill last a very long time. Now explain to me how exactly you can get healthcare without insurance in the U.S with out going bankrupt in a week? And all Obamas proposing isn't even socialized healthcare in the Australian sense its giving the private companies competition with a Public insurance plan.....Whats wrong with that isn't capitalism and american democracy built on competition bringing out the best in people and organisations?
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curmudgeon said on Jul 24, 2009....
Great questions.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucmg/20090722/cm_ucmg/uninsuredlikeme
The link above points to an opinion piece about why many young working folks in the States go without insurance - it's a huge drain on their wallets without any real return on the money. If more people were encouraged to maintain less expensive catastrophic (hospitalization, disability, etc) policies and keep health savings accounts that accrued money-interest-stock value over years, younger workers could protect themselves against disaster and have money saved up for when their medical expenses increase.
There are ways of fostering competition in an industry without direct government involvement. One proposal was to allow residents of one State to purchase policies from companies based in States where rates are lower. Not sure exactly how this works since most HMOs and insurers operate all over the country.
One major criticism of the government "competition" idea is simply that the government can undercut private insurers, lose money and make up for the losses by raising taxes. The Democrats are now talking about taxing private insurance benefits to finance its own "competitive" insurance operations! How is that in any way "fair" competition? There is no competing with government! There has been no talk at all about maintaining a level playing field, or how the government will be held accountable for financial mismanagement. At least theoretically private companies have clients and investors to answer to. Government wonks are completely unaccountable to anyone.
If anything, what will happen is the private insurance industry will shrink to a profitable level - just as private educators only serve a small percentage of K-12 students compared to the public school system - and the bulk of Americans will be unwillingly tied to the public "option." Were Americans to understand that this is exactly what single-payer proponents want and that government competition is part of the agenda (this is not nutty right-wing conspiracy theory - this is from very liberal academics who have contact with influential proponents of a single payer system), they would vote these lying creeps out of office in the next election.
Looking forward to discussing this with you further.
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RandolphWinstonTheThird said on Jul 28, 2009....
First of All governments are accountable every 4 years...company execs aren't even accountable when their company goes bankrupt as recent events have shown us. You can always trust government more than private companies or money men because government has to eventually go public with all the policies it intends to implement (It has to go to congress then the senate to be passed and debated). A private company commitee and even sometimes the majority shareholder alone can make decisions without consulting the wider group of shareholders or the general public at large....So that is why government is always far more accountable than business. Now if the new government insurance was proving to be a huge financial drain ( though i doubt it could even compare to the huge amounts of money wasted in Iraq by Bush) then the people could vote Obama out - simple! The health insurance industry in the U.S is completely sick your state v state proposal was ludicrous at best. Their is no doubt that the major players of health insurance in the U.S of which im guessing at most their would be 5 are fixing prices as to not compete to hard with eachother and let everyone have a fairly equal share of the profits -It happens here in oz with airlines and petrol prices it happens everywhere in big business these days. I guess thats the Irony of big business....they are the first to point out the evils of socialism or communism but then proceed to participate in business practices with rivals that could only be described as just that! The rich multinationals today do business as equals while small business owners and individuals suffocate in ruthless capitalism. So bring on socialist measures for the masses - Capitalism will always have its place but never mistake capitalism for democracy. -
curmudgeon said on Jul 28, 2009....
"So that is why government is always far more accountable than business."
You obviously have no idea how Medicare and Medicaid work. Every few years they discover that hundreds of millions of dollars have been billed to the system fraudulently. No politicians are ever held accountable for the lassitude of civil servants.
Even if Obama is voted out of office, this will not halt a program that has already been implemented. It just goes on, whether or not it is a complete waste of time, money and effort.
For example, right now we have four independent, federally funded health systems serving people in the military - each with their own formulae for negotiating pharmaceutical prices and other medical services. Such duplicative administration is an incredible waste of taxpayer dollars, not to mention a paperwork headache for the doctors, hospitals, pharma and medical device companies trying to simply get patients the treatment they need and deserve. Now Obama and his ilk want to add even more bureaucracy to the system! Their proposals create departments that already exist, without closing down any of the infrastructure in place. There is neither rhyme nor reason why the system as it is now cannot find a way to offer insurance to those who actually want it. But the Dems are all about enlarging government whether it makes any sense to or not.
Your arguments really only deal in broadsides against "capitalism" and "multinationals" with no specificity to the topic whatsoever. You accuse large companies of price fixing without any substantiation.
There was an incident way back when involving the Navy getting billed $400 for toilet seats and other rediculous prices for hammers, screwdrivers and other tools. When government fixes the price, it's just as likely to be as high as if private industry did. The only thing is taxpayers NEVER get their money back. Industry reps sit on regulatory boards, and then go back to industry when their terms of service are over. Just look at the bulk of Obama's various Czars - most of them are industry lobbyists.
I do not want some government health care scheme run the way our public school system is run - dominated by unions and special interests with horribly inequitable distribution of resources across the system. Let the People make these decisions for themselves.
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javadewd said on Jul 28, 2009....
Take your bullshit socialism programs back to that prison colony you call a country, Randolph! I'm sick of you fucking homos from Australia attempting to dictate policy here in America. Fuck you!
First off, EVERYBODY has access to health care here. We don't turn people away -- illegal immigrants, psychopaths, liberals -- and many of our medical institutions have a faith-based affiliation (which Obama is trying to separate from the system) that will usually assist you financially in your care if you have the humility to ask for it. That's why our hospitals are named after saints!
45M people do not have health care? Oh, that is total bullshit. It just goes to show you fuckers down under get fed a lot of bullshit that you have no clue about. If you fucking lived here you'd see the media is duping you, but have another fucking oil can and a smile and shut the fuck up!
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RandolphWinstonTheThird said on Jul 28, 2009....
No point arguing with a bigot! Argue with a noble prize winner in economics and professor of economics at princeton a much more credible source than the source for your dismal article.....anyway as usual you will find I am right and you are wrong remember that for our future arguments! And anyone who has been following this debate feel free to also view the article on healthcare in the states.and here is another just for good measure Twat -
RandolphWinstonTheThird said on Jul 28, 2009....
Insulting Australia hey - typical redneck southern yank doesn't know who his friends are...we are the only country in the world that has fought in every conflict the U.S has been invovled in, and another point the only reason the british settled aus and moved convicts here is because they couldn't send them to the U.S anymore so look up your history dickwad and stop coming out with ignorant statements. By the way i only criticize your healthsystem as someone who thinks america deserves better and if you look up the facts perhaps at the world Health organisations website youll find america ranks extremely low in the developed world for healthcare of its citizens behind the Ukraine even! So anything obama does surely just has to be better than the shambles you currently have. -
curmudgeon said on Jul 28, 2009....
Excuse me, but Paul Krugman is hardly a credible source - Princeton degree, Nobel Prize and all. He operates from the liberal worldview and sees no other as valid. That the Nobel organization would award a prize to a self-promoting liar like Al Gore only adds credence to the notion that its prizes are given on the basis of politics and little more.
Your citing the World Health Organization is equally suspect. The United Nations is itself a political body with its own axe to grind - largely it is pissed off that the US is not contributing what the UN thinks is its "fair share." These undeserving ingrates rack up millions of dollars in parking fines every year, conduct their useless operations on American soil and have the temerity to suggest we are cheap! The UN compares the US to tiny, wealthy little city-states like Denmark, Sweden and Norway when combining the three "nations" basically constitutes the population of New York, Houston and maybe Boston or Dallas combined. Their findings are completely unscientific and have little to no credibility at all.
You think Americans "deserve better" than what they have now, but because your only sources of information are completely left-biased, you have absolutely no clue that "better" in the liberal mind would make things far worse than what we have now.
You know nothing about how Medicare and Medicaid work, you know nothing about the waste and inefficiency already extent in the Federal healthcare system, and you have no idea whatsoever that many American doctors are already telling their kids not to follow them into medicine, if not plotting a move out of medicine altogether - largely because the government makes it very hard for them to practice in any kind of satisfying manner. Yet somehow you conclude that liberal nanny-staters like Krugman at the utterly leftist New York Times know what is best for us. Get this through your head: THEY DO NOT.
Thanks for your concern, but please inform yourself a bit about our system before offering an opinion - unless you intend to simply parrot whatever Krugman and his ilk say. Based on your ill-informed broadsides against capitalism and multi-nationals, my guess is you will just go on ruffling your feathers whenever Krugman says "Randy Wanna Cracker."
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RandolphWinstonTheThird said on Jul 29, 2009....
So im the crackpot here when you have the notion that their is a grand worldwide conspiracy involving all the worlds nations through the U.N and WHO among others just to destroy america and the republican party. MY GOD do you know how ridiculous you sound? I'll have to repeat myself again no use arguing with ignorant conspiricy theorists i may as well be arguing with rush limbaugh here! -
curmudgeon said on Jul 29, 2009....
Ask yourself some simple questions - how many people actually travel thousands of miles to the Ukraine for medical treatment? How many people travel to the US for medical treatment? How many people from countries with socialized medicine travel to the US for treatment?
Go ahead, call me a conspiracy theorist, if that confirms your worldview. It is not that there is some vast conspiracy against Rush Limbaugh fans, it is simply that folks like Krugman and the analysts at the UN conduct their research with their conclusions already in mind - that government involvement in healthcare issues is the only way of solving the problems they see. If they do not look at that worldview critically, they will never see the absurdity in their own interpretations of the data they gather - such as ranking the Ukrainian medical system higher than the US.
I do not say this as some dyed in the wool lifelong Republican. I voted for Mondale, Dukakis and Clinton before I switched over, largely because of this absolute unwillingness among self-described progressives to look at their own positions with the same critical rigor as they regard the conservative positions, AND their willingness among writers at the Times to bend their reporting to fit their political worldview.
Mind, you have not even come close to refuting any one of the criticisms of federally managed healthcare I have offered, or the damage that further government intrusion will wreak upon American lives. By adopting an elitist position all you accomplish is to confirm your ignorance in this entire matter.
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javadewd said on Jul 29, 2009....
No, Randy, you're a flaming faggot who looks up at the US from the ass end of the world. No wonder you site fuck-tard liberals as sources. What a brain-washed convoluted douch-bag! Not only are you wrong, but you're so far fucking wrong that even half the liberals here would disagree with your pathetic ass, and that's pretty sad.
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