• fearing said on Jul 04, 2009....

  Truth,
  My first response?  Does "hell in a handbasket" sound familiar?  ....... okay, I'm messing with you, mostly.  You know I like to say the first thing that pops into my head sometimes and that was it.
   
  So, conservatives don't want change huh?  Funny.  I don't want change but that doesn't have anything to do with being conservative.  It's a personality flaw.  ;-)  I'd also like to point out I was AMAZED at the views of others here.  Where I live, it's very conservative.  Talk about culture shock.  I got a bigger view of the world and it helped me in a lot of ways.  It didn't change my views but helps me to understand others. 
   
  Well, I have to go now.  This was shorter than I what I had to say but other responsibilities call. 
   
  By the way, don't despair.  You do know what is going on in this country.  You shouldn't be worried about it.  Chin up. 
   
  love and hugs,
  Fearing

• beyondtheveil said on Jul 04, 2009....

  Hi truth
  
  I tend to think most people here are mainstream left of center. And I think they are more vocal due to the bush years. I know you said leave presidents out of the discussion, but how can one review present feelings without mentioning that?
  
  If you read my posts and comments on this you will see I respect neither political side. I probably look liberal due to responding to what I consider inane or off the wall right wing views.
  
  You rarely see left wing political posts. You see many right wing political posts. It's not that people don't care about the country, it's that most people on here basically want equality of rights and respect for all, regardless of their lifestyle. I think that's where a lot of the rub comes in. People on here are politically moderate, but not moderate when it comes to the health and welfare of people.
  
  When you said "Too much crazy, not enough, if any wisdom, responsibility taking, and little if any brilliance..." - I couldn't agree with you more if you are referring to our leaders. My posts and comments on this are rather prolific toward both parties.
  
  The country has been placed in this position from many years, decades, of corruption that really has nothing to do with political ideology, but has everything to do with money, greed, and vanity. Neither side could lead us out of this without suffering, so the only recourse is for them, and those who side by party, to attack each other. Truly amazing since both sides stuck it to us.
  
  But it's certainly no reason to leave. You just got back. You've always been well liked here. You have an unshakable love for God, and people. What more could we want?
  
  
  
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jul 04, 2009....

  Historically speaking saying that Conservatives think we have everything just right as is or want to roll back the clock to previous ideas is accurate.  To say that Liberals think that we can do better and hope to improve the world and move away from the current is also accurate.  So that "dofus" you were listening to was exactly right.

  However change doesn't by definition mean that it is better.  It is simply different and that is not a synonym for improvement no matter what anybody might say.

  Yes America is evolving, that cannot be questioned by a rational mind.  So far there are no major changes that I don't approve of, particularly not things that the government has done directly.  We'll see in a year or so.  I fully expect Obama to fuck me on immigration.  I could be wrong though, Bush tried and it didn't work then so maybe just maybe Congress will stop him on this.  I'm half and half on Cap and Trade, it's gotten halfway there last time I checked but as the weeks drag on I suspect it has died in the Senate.  America will be BETTER after the changes Obama has made.

  There is however a MAJOR risk here.  Something that creationists cannot grasp because they think that evolution means BETTER not more suited to their enviroment.  It's a very important distinction as Polar Bears are finding out right goddamn now.  Polar Bears basically are Grizzly Bears, they are close enough genetically not only to have offspring  but I don't even think the are sterile.  Polar Bears are great, if you live on ice and hunt seals.  They SUCK outside those conditions.  It is possible that Obama's America is hyperspecialized for the current conditions and much like the Mega Fauna of the Ice Age will find itself unable to compete when conditions thaw.  I doubt it as most of his moves have been incredibly prudent and long over due but still it is a possibility.

  Remember Evolution doesn't mean better.  It means better RIGHT NOW.  Cochroaches are BETTER if we are having world wide nuclear war.

• truthsayer said on Jul 04, 2009....

  I'm not, what I would call, "worried" my dearest llittle "fearing" friend.  I am very concerned though.  I mean, what do I do?  When I know certain things, and I care about people that are truly deceived...what can I do?  I order to be deceived, we have to go into agreement with deception, at least on some level.  Not wanting to know the truth is the same as agreeing to be deceived, you know?  Yet I know that MANY will be deceived.  What responsibility do we have in this?  Are there some that can still be awakened before it is too late?  Or is it already determined? 
  
  That is my quandry. 
  
  If you knew some of what I know, from the last few years, you would be shocked.  You know more than most, because of your faith.  Your dad and your brother, they were not and are not lightweights.  They understood a lot.  But this, this is weirder than I had ever thought fearing.  And to know that what I know now, is only the tip of the iceberg?  It is just too weird sometimes. 
  
  Thank you for noticing me here again.  I can always count on you.  : )
  
  Love, love, love...no matter what, right?
  
  Truthsayer
  

• truthsayer said on Jul 04, 2009....

  Hello my old friend beyond.
  
  Yes, we must leave the presidents out of this discussion, because we haven't a clue what we are talking about in this country anymore.  Sorry.  But it is true.  Do you have any idea what this country was built upon anymore?  Do you remember what history books used to read like, compared to what they read like now?  It is like reading the Bible as opposed to comic books.
  
  People today can't take "REAL" people as politicians.  They want plastic, underhanded, two-faced, ass-kissers.  They don't want real anymore.  Give 'em a virtual president and a joy stick in a virtual world where they make up their own rules as they go...and they're dazed and overstimulated, which can look a lot like opinionated to the untrained eye.  This is pathetic.  We deserve everything we have gotten in this nation, in a sick and sloppy way.
  
  Money, greed and vanity?  Perhaps.  But then we have these young ones, like SeanRenaud and many of his athiest cronies that believe that is evolution!  Survival of the fittest!  That right makes right and the ends justify the means!  I have heard them hawk that over and over and over. 
  
  So where is this idealism that you believe they believe in?  Where they want equal rights no matter what their "lifestyle"?  Equal rights?  But those rights you speak of are endowed to us by our Creator, remember?  So who gave them the right to tell me how I am allowed to live my life in this country whose very foundation they want to destroy? 
  
  It's crazy I tell you. 
  
  Hey, you know I love you.  I love SeanRenaud.  But with all due respect guys?  You don't have a clue what is really going on here.  I don't know what to do with you.  Or for you.  I don't know if there is anything that I possibly can do.  Guess I'll just hang out and do my best to be a light in a dark place.  Hopefully, you will realize one day, that the affection you have for me...isn't really because of me.  It's because of Him.  The one that lives in me and told me to love you like He does.
  
  Maybe you'll get it some day.  Before it's too late.
  
  Love, love, love...no matter what,
  
  Truthsayer
  
  
  
  
  

• truthsayer said on Jul 05, 2009....

  Hi SeanR : )  Long time no see little buddy.
  
  Okay.  In chunks:
  
  Paragraph one:  Wrong.
  
  Paragraph two:  Right.
  
  Paragraph three, highlights:  Systems degrade.  They decay.  Although they can become increasingly complex, it does not mean that they necessarily become better (note, check your paragraph two).  The rest of it?  Yeah, he'll do whatever he is told to do by the powers that be and whatever suits him and his agenda.  He's about as deep as a puddle in a parking lot.
  
  Paragraph four:  Your "major risk" is interesting.  I don't get the creationist reference at all though : /  Your POINT would be sharper without the polar bears references as well.  : )  But, anyway, we are still suffering from the drastic and socialist changes that Roosevelt made during the depression.  They might have been okay at the time...but should never have been more than temporary. 
  
  They were Band Aids, and when the boo-boos were healed, they should have been removed.  If they were good Band Aids, then the wounds would have healed nicely.  I don't know Sean.  That was all long before my time...I just know that he was closer to making himself the czar of America than anyone ever has been.  He was very controlling and also deceptive.  I sense a lot of that in our government today.  A lot.  I loathe politics and what it has become in this country.  It is plastic and thoughtless. 
  
  Now we have the additional menace of politicians with celebrity status, that rock star quality that everyone here in America seems to crave...and I hate it.  I'm looking for good, quality food/information/truth that I can sink my teeth into, digest well, be nourished by and then...well, I can let it pass through me, so to speak.  But I'm not looking to be "played" like this, by our own government...the media...etc.  This is like that song, "Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies...tell me, tell me lies!"
  
  Once again though, you are talking about adaptation and natural selection Sean.  I get that.  I have a farther reaching understanding than you do about science, creation and what you call "evolution".  But we differ on this topic because of our foundations, our world views...our frame of reference. 
  
  Evolution, as MOST people describe it Sean, means to them, that things are getting better.  Remember.  I have been through this.  I did this debate on at least three fronts in college...with some pretty brilliant minds.  Some not so brilliant...but the debates I am speaking of were with men that I really respected.  Not that I wouldn't have spoken to women about this...it just so happens that there were men that were very influential in my education.  Anyway, most of your cronies on here do NOT understand evolution the way you try to explain it.  Remember, they believe Dawkins.  What a doofus.  ; )
  
  No, the doofus I referenced was not correct though Sean.  He doesn't understand the first thing about systems.  He doesn't understand the input of the system.  He doesn't understand the input of America.  Do you?  Or are you still playing word games with whether or not this nation was founded upon Biblical principles?
  
  Oh!!!  By the way...you might want to read a little bit about Blythe, the Christian that wrote extensively about evolution, BEFORE Darwin's cult began.
  
  : ) 
  
  Still lovin' you SeanR, still lovin' you!!!
  
  : P
  
  Your think-buddie,
  
  Truthsayer
  
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jul 05, 2009....

  It's good to see you too.

  Lets be fair Darwin for all his brilliance lacked a century and a half of extensive research into his plan.  I'm shocked that he was close enough to right that he can still be quoted and even him if you are giving him a fair shake understood the difference between better suited and BETTER.  It is clear from his descriptions of the several species of highly specialized species of finch on the islands.  If Evolution was as simple as better there would have been a single finch.  A SUPER FINCH capable of doing everything.  That's not what happened and not what he observed nor what he reported on.  He was infact very clear that each species of Finch had its own ecological niche that it was specialized for.  It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if that niche vanishes creatures that are hyperspecialized to it will fail.  (I again quote Polar Bears and shrinking Ice Caps)  Because they aren't better, they are better at job x.

  The Band Aids as you call them that FDR applied weren't removed for a reason.  The system was inherently unstable.  More so than anybody really cares to notice but the Great Depression wasn't unique.  It wasn't even the biggest depression in history or even in the last say hundred fifty years it was merely the best recorded/reported.  Sorta like Vietnam wasn't the bloodiest war of recent history but there were no cameras and reporters to tell EXACTLY what happened in WW2.  They were like clock work, you could set your clock to the depression.  Fifteen years give or take and the system collapses under it's own weight.  FDR fixed the system and as a result we didn't have the same problems occur for over half a century.

  Calling what FDR did damaging to the US as a whole is like calling the UN damaging.  I might think they could do MUCH better than they do but I think a One World Government is a great idea, sadly one we aren't ready for but a great idea nonetheless.  The fact is that look at history, up until that point what every fifteeen to twenty years (often coinciding with depressions which make people more willing to buy propaganda) everybody got together threw a war and redrew the maps.

  Obama has been open an honest on all but a few issues.  Unless by sink your teeth into your expecting him to come down and personally speak to you and your family then you can hardly have more and if you check my posts particularly the recent ones I'm not a sycophant.  When I think he's fucked up I'm not shy about saying I think he's handled problem X incorrectly or I'm currious about plan Y.

  I also gave Bush benefit of the doubt if you recall.  If I didn't know he was wrong (or at least strongly suspect)  I assumed he was right because he has access to information that I don't. 

  For the record I compare economies with ecologies because they are simply too complex for anybody to truly understand.  We can make educated guesses, run computer models but in the end it's a crap shoot.  There are simply too many factors acting to be calculated for.  Nobody knows what will happen when you release a new species into the wild or what will happen when a new government regulation hits the market.  To claim we KNOW isn't arrogance, it's lying.  There is the Theory of Gravity or the Theory of Evolution which is arrogance based on the idea that if you can't prove me wrong I must be right (which all it actually proves is that you're the smartest man in the room) and the simple fact that horses that escape(d) in Africa have never been able to acheive stable populations and nobody even in Africa rides Zebra into battle. 

  Ecos work on rules so complex that we are unable to properly comprehend.  They are truly amazing.

• truthsayer said on Jul 05, 2009....

  I can't believe I am still up.  I have GOT to go to bed.  = 7
  
  But! 
  
  He was not brilliant.  He was weird.  Study him.  Yuck.  Weirdo through and through.  His whole family makes my family look like the poster-family for "functional" ; )
  
  The UN is damaging...now.  The system was not designed to take over the world. 
  
  FDR's programs may have helped at the time...but, like I said, we struggle with them now  Also, we have been doing the same old things in the same old ways.  No new ideas.  No brilliance.  imho.
  
  I know that you gave Bush the benefit of the doubt.  They do have access to information that you and I never will  Both of them.  All of them.  You saw Obama change his tune on quite a few things once he was in office too.  I told you he would.  Not because he is a bad man...but because he would now have access to new information.
  
  See how we keep talking about the presidents, instead of ourselves?  Instead of the ideals this nation was founded upon?  I mean, you love evolution Sean.  What is the DNA of America?  What is the multidimensional code that is the DNA of America?  Or, did America just happen.  Just the right set of variables, compounds, etc...and POOF!  BANG!  America was born, or materialized?  Or...was it desined?  What was the intention of the designers? 
  
  I have certain inalienable rights that are endowed by my Creator.  I am a citizen of America.  I have rights...but they're being interpreted and reinterpreted by a bunch of monkeys now.
  
  How is your friend, btw?  How is that coming along?
  
  Human systems are designed by humans, but the Maker of all influences everything and everyone.  I know that you love science.  I do to.  I just happen to love the one that created it all, more than I do that which He created.  The systems created by humans will not last.  But the Truth will.  Love will.  The current economy is not based upon Biblical principles.  If it was, we would not be in the shape we are in.  It is based upon the appetites of man.  The understanding of man.  The government used to be based upon Biblical principles.  Our presidents used to pray and even fast.   They called the nation to pray and fast.  Now, they listen to polls and media and again, the appetites of man.
  
  I gotta get some sleep SeanR ; ) 
  
  Maybe I'll see you in dreamland sometime.  I used to do some of my best work there : )  Remember that dream of the Soul Casters on the shore, eating fish with the Master?  Maybe I'll actually finish that story some day.  Maybe the Lord will refresh it in my mind again.  C'you there.  Hope to see you at the finish line.
  
  Gotta love ya, and it's not that hard...
  
  Truthsayer
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jul 05, 2009....

  Most genuises are weird.  Micheal Jackson was a pedophile.  That has less than no effect on the fact that he is if one of not THE most talented musician of the last century.  The only thing that can even claim to compete would be the Beatles and that was four talented men.

  I didn't argue that Obama would change his stance on certain things as he both came to have that extra information that had been kept from him AND as he was elected.  I'm surprised he hasn't shifted on more things but tis early yet.

  We do need some new ideas, but for the most part the system works the way we have it.  My point about FDR's fixes not being undone is if they hadn't been undone we would have a depression in the 60s.  We had a recession in the 80s on schecule but not a full scale depression.  And then we had damn near thirty years of growth.  Interesting factoid the fall that we are in happened exactly 8 years after Clinton took off JUST ONE of the band aids that FDR put.  Just one.

  In the end they were not bandaids they were improvements.  Like airbags or seatbelts. 

  The nation wasn't founded on Christian ideals btw and every single time dating back to the Barbary Wars.  Infact every single time we are asked if we are a Christian nation the answer is always the same no.  You claim that our laws are based around the Christian Ten Commandments which is true, but it's twisting facts.  That is simply where the group of guys writing the laws first heard those concepts.  Every nation on earth (and debatably many animals in fact) have laws against murder, theft, and infidelity.  If you don't figure this rules out on your own you're people kill each other everybody dies your society ends and nobody lives to tell about it.  Evolution, not God.

  The current economy is based on a strange combination of things but the basis of it is Love if such a thing is real.  It will stand as long as humans do because to reject it leads to death and we are self serving.

  As for my friend she was doing well up until about a month ago, I can only presume she's doing less well right now as she hasn't written me in a while.  For reasons I can't fully grasp but I'm starting to suspect means she wants closure my ex started writing me about a week ago.

• truthsayer said on Jul 05, 2009....

  Well my dear...I cannot bow to your god, or your leader (Darwin)...I do not see him as a genius at all.  If he had credited others in the text of his writings, then perhaps he would not be suspect.  He had a chaotic mind and evolution was his excuse.
  
  I am a writer Sean.  I look deep into things, and people.  I also study systems.  You say our present economy is based on love???  Dude.  You've got to be kidding.  I am speechless.  Truly. 
  
  Glad you are still in touch with your friend, anyway.  Hope all works out with your girlfriend too.
  
  How do you marry socialism and capitalism in your mind and heart Sean?  You seem to be a proud member of each camp.  Perhaps in you, and others like you, their is a political marriage that you think will save all of us.  Me?  I'll wait for the King.
  
  Truth, truth, truth,
  
  Truthsayer
  

• doortoinsanity said on Jul 29, 2009....

  Truth, you answered your own question...
  "Help me understand folks.  This is crazy, and I am very, very concerned about America.  Too much crazy, not enough, if any wisdom, responsibility taking, and little if any brilliance is ever allowed to be expressed."
  
  ;-)
  

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