• Hegemone said on Jul 02, 2009....

  It is interesting the way our minds work isn't it?  I myself never really gave a hoot either way about MJ.  I admired some of his music, of course had a few songs here and there that we listened to loudly when we caught it, but I wasn't a die hard fan, nor did I hate him, I just knew of his existence more or less.  Since his death I've been more prone to feeling like listening to his songs.  Strange that way, I think it might even fall into the category of 'You don't know what you had until it's gone.'

• CreativeWoman said on Jul 02, 2009....

  Hege,
  That's a good point.  I don't consider myself a judgmental person, but I think I was in his case.
  
  CW
  

• uniquely-ironic said on Jul 02, 2009....

  I liked some of his songs but found the man himself entirely too weird.  I don't pass judgement on him, his life was beyond my comprehension.  His music is meaningful on it's own merit and I enjoy a lot of it.  I hope he has found some sort of peace wherever he is now.

• soaringraven said on Jul 02, 2009....

  I was never a Micheal fan either, my kids were in their time although.  I still haven't bothered to go out of my way to listen to any of his music.  I was never terribly concerned about his lifestyle, I just didn't really care for his music.
   
  soaring

• CreativeWoman said on Jul 02, 2009....

  uni,
  I hope he has too.
  
  CW
  

• CreativeWoman said on Jul 02, 2009....

  soaring,
  I lean more towards rock, but at the time The Wall and Thriller came out was when I enjoyed his music the most.
  
  CW
  

• gingersoul said on Jul 02, 2009....

  CW.......sorry.......never been a big fan of Jacko.....and i am already fed up with all the huge post-mortem buzz...
   
  Yes, he was talented but still a talented-damaged-disturbed wacko.
   
  'Nuff to say. 
   
   
  . 

• pickersplock said on Jul 02, 2009....

  It was a duck CW.

  I wasn't 100% sure until I heard about his friend/business partner Marc
  Schaffel, the gay porn director. 

• CreativeWoman said on Jul 02, 2009....

  ginger,
  He was wacko.  I can't deny that.  If I had children, I would have NOT ever let them be alone with him.  My point, is that I feel God has judged him now.  I know he can't do whatever he might have done to anyone else.
  
  pickers,
  I never knew about the gay porn director.  That does quack, doesn't it?
  
  CW
  

• ALIENated said on Jul 02, 2009....

  I just saw some video of his last practice session. It was only a few days before his death. He and others were practicing for his next tour. He had a certain style and it looked like his latest efforts were as unique as ever. Too bad no one will get to see the final production. His personal life was questionable, but his uniqueness is unquestionable. Like Elvis and the Beatles, there will never be another Michael Jackson, but we all know there will be another just as famous and just as unique, someday. Each new generation lifts its representative to the top. Who knows who will be next.

• bhalah said on Jul 02, 2009....

  yes, whit the porn director, again you feel samething, but i was totaly agree abaut God you said abaut, btw, for me, this gay had talent, he create many times, top ranking song all over, but he was enterely living one life, the others , us, can not guet in his skyn, it was a tipe of idoll, from plenty, i went to one concert of him, ones, in my country, a frend had one more tiket for free, Michel, he said, i said if theres not another chouse... i dont remember nothing abaut the music, it was a footbal stage, whit thousands of people screaming, i was prety far, and all the time i was watching my entorne, a litle of the stage, oll the white bright light was on him, at the midl, was only him and plenty light, i remember that imagen, and i was there feeling , but eny feel i ever remember, i feel sory for him, i remember that, but at the end we have your vew of God, so then you see this video for example, and i have to said, his natural extreme talente, he couldent manage, and he guet a litle bit nut..

• CreativeWoman said on Jul 02, 2009....

  ALIEN,
  I agree with you.  Someone else will take his place one day on that level of fame.  He left his mark on the world.
  
  bhalah,
  I agree that he was a bit of a nut.  It sounds like you enjoyed his concert.
  
  CW
  

• wombat said on Jul 02, 2009....

  I can't seem to put him in the same level with Elvis or the Beatles as far as an "icon" goes, but that's probably due to my age.

  What am I saying?  I am still wondering why someone who is no different than you and I can do something like sing, swing a bat, drive fast, or knock another guy down and become "better than" us folks who just struggle to survive day to day without the millions.  Maybe fame is over-rated.

  (yea, I would still like it if I had it!  But, really....what does it prove?  Money aside?)

• pickersplock said on Jul 02, 2009....

  Call me crazy, but how do you not know, that your friend and business partner is a gay porn director?

• pickersplock said on Jul 02, 2009....

  Oh, and P.S. every time I hear PYT on the radio, I have to change the channel because I feel the vomit rising.

• UnicornForm said on Jul 02, 2009....

  He wasnt your everyday normal. He was courageous. He let it out. He never hurt anyone any other time if he did that mess or not. He gave alot. Took little.  He was different. Far from boring. But great artist are always veiwed as insane.

• ALIENated said on Jul 02, 2009....

  Gay porn director? PYT? Please explain. I missed all that.

• pusscat said on Jul 03, 2009....

  One thing that I have not read in any posts here about MJ is that his court cases didn't end with lack of evidence, he was completely aquitted.  There is a huge difference - I know it it were me I would welcome people having that knowledge of the difference.
  
  As for smoke without fire - lemme see, if I were famous and had been in the public eye, so far, since the age of 15 I would have been guilty of taking illegal drugs in a pub whilst underage, guilty of serious physical assualt against another female, guilty of having an affair with someone else's husband whilst I was actually with my fiance, guilty of drinking alcohol during working hours (disciplinery offence where I work), oh, and not forgetting that with my lifestyle choice, I would most likely have been branded either a paedophile pervert or an abused doormat by now!  I'm sure there have been a few other's things people have wrongly accused me of but I think you get my point.
  
  RIP MJ cos they never gave you any whilst you were alive.
  

• CreativeWoman said on Jul 03, 2009....

  wombat,
  It must be the hand of fate and their drive to be famous.  Fame surely does mess with some people.  You know?
  
  pickers,
  I don't know what PYT is.  I never paid close enough attention to Jackson in his later years to know who he did business with.
  
  Unicorn,
  I don't think all great artists are considered insane.  I do think that fame coupled with the people that surround a person can make a big difference in how a person deals with it.  Jackson had talent. No denying that.
  
  ALIEN,
  I missed that too.
  
  pusscat,
  That's why I said that God has had the ultimate say in all of that. 
  
  It's common knowledge that Jackson made a few pay offs to families of boys to avoid criminal proceedings. That in itself is not an admission of guilt, but it did happen more that once.  He obviously kept putting himself in the position for those types of accusations to keep occurring.
  
  There was a big television interview with Jackson a few years ago at his Neverland Estate.  He talked about boys sleeping in his bed with him, etc.  He claimed it was nothing sexual, but I would say that it at the very least it's a huge red flag.  There was a statement made that he gave young boys "Jesus Juice", which was nothing more than alcohol.  (I'm not sure if that was in the interview or at the trial.)
  
  He was acquitted of the charges that later came up against him.  I wasn't in that courtroom and I didn't hear all the evidence.  But I can tell you this....if I had a son and the opportunity arose, he would NEVER have been left alone with Jackson or anyone weird like him.
  
  He gave me bad vibes. 
  
  I believe I have formed my opinion on him based upon his actions and reactions to all those charges with the young boys. 
  
  The prescription drug misuse is unfortunate.  I understand how physical pain can be intolerable for some and that many of those prescription pain killers are highly addictive.  He was under a doctor's care.  I think that doctor has some explaining to do as does his inner circle.
  
  Those are just my own thoughts.  I don't expect everyone to share them.
  
  CW
  

• pusscat said on Jul 03, 2009....

  I think you view CW is a fair one and I totally respect you for that.  I know that no one in the world except Michael himself will ever know what really happened but one thing I do know for sure is, if my child had been sexually abused by someone, no payoff would keep me quiet.  I think it is a remarkable coincidense that after MJ gave one payoff (as aadvised by his legal advisors) then suddenly the other family came out of the woodwork.  With the hundreds of young boys and girls that stayed at Neverland, you would think there would have actually been more accusations than there were. 
  
  My step-daughter was sexually abused by her uncle and I can safely say that my husband and his ex-wife would not have accepted one single penny for his crime - only prison (where he ended up) was what they all wanted.
  
  As for the doctor, I totally agree with you.  For a man of the medical profession to just keep giving prescription after prescription instead of trying to wean him off them is disgusting!  I guess these conversations will go on for many years around the world eh CW?  At least we can say we all do it in a civlized way here.  That's what I love about people at SC :-)
  

• CreativeWoman said on Jul 03, 2009....

  pusscat,
  I agree that this will be talked about for a very long time. 
  
  I am so sorry about what happened to your step-daughter.
  
  IF Michael Jackson was innocent, I hope he found some peace when he crossed over to the next life.  Perhaps he did regardless.  That's the wonderful thing about God.  He doesn't blink about forgiving.  I find great personal comfort in that.
  
  I like that we agree to disagree.  I like the conversation and I don't always have to be right.  :-)
  
  CW
  

• pusscat said on Jul 03, 2009....

  "He doesn't blink about forgiving" that's beautiful :-)
  If only everyone could agree to disagree what a wonderful world we could live in.  As for me, I love a good chin-wag about almost anything lol!
  

• CreativeWoman said on Jul 03, 2009....

  pusscat,
  Well, I really do believe that.  :-)  I like a good conversation too.
  
  CW
  

• pickersplock said on Jul 05, 2009....

  Ah, the gay porn director story?
   
  http://www.tmz.com/2006/07/10/jackson-says-he-was-shocked-by-gay-porn/
  http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/MichaelJackson/story?id=1336379
   
   A small sample of the lyrics to PYT
   
  I Want To Love You (P.Y.T.)
  Pretty Young Thing
  You Need Some Lovin' (T.L.C.)
  Tender Lovin' Care
  And I'll Take You There
  I Want To Love You (P.Y.T.)
  Pretty Young Thing
  You Need Some Lovin' (T.L.C.)
  Tender Lovin' Care
  I'll Shake You There
  
  [Background]
  Anywhere You Wanna Go
  
  [2nd Verse]
  Nothin' Can Stop This Burnin'
  Desire To Be With You
  Gotta Get To You Baby
  Won't You Come, It's Emergency
  Cool My Fire Yearnin'
  Honey, Come Set Me Free
  Don't You Know Now Is The Perfect Time
  We Can Dim The Lights
  Just To Make It Right
  In The Night
  Hit The Lovin' Spot
  I'll Give You All That I've Got

   

   

   

  Barf and double barf! 

  Am I right?

  
  

• CreativeWoman said on Jul 05, 2009....

  Pickers,
  Those articles are eye opening.  I wonder if that former business partner will write a book now. 
  
  I've never heard that song. 
  
  I don't really care if Jackson was secretly gay too.  It's not my thing, but whatever floats your boat.  The thing that gets me though is the persistent allegations of him and minor boys.  That's what made me lose respect for him.
  
  CW
  

• pickersplock said on Jul 05, 2009....

  I don't care if he was gay either, but I question the influence of a porn director gay or straight, being around his children.............and how the heck did he not know this guy was a porn director?
  See?  If he'll lie about that, he'll lie about anything.
   
  BTW, PYT was on the famous Thriller album.
  One of my favorites back in the day. 

• CreativeWoman said on Jul 05, 2009....

  pickers,
  Well, I obviously HAVE heard that song then because I listened to Thriller a lot when it first came out.  Somehow it didn't stick with me and I must not have made any connections about it.  I can be slow sometimes.  lol
  
  He had to know the guy was a gay porn director.  Jackson lived in his own little world full of his own realities.  Jackson is the one that I would be worried about with the children.  I've not heard or read anything about this other guy ever being accused of anything with children.  I wouldn't want porn around my kids though.
  
  It is such a surreal world that he was in.
  
  CW
  

• ALIENated said on Jul 07, 2009....

  I bought the Thriller album when it came out. My turntable is shot. I need to buy a new one so I can listen to that song. Thanks for the info (P.Y.T., etc.) I have watched some documentaries about Jackson and heard about the porn director. Just another brick in the wall.

• CreativeWoman said on Jul 07, 2009....

  ALIEN,
  I was thinking about getting his Greatest Hits CD or maybe that first album, The Wall, which will always be my favorite.  I had that one and Thriller. 
  
  I've watched some of the documentaries too. 
  
  His ex-wife, Debbie Rowe, may be getting ready to go to court about the kids.  Those kids are who I feel sorry for.
  
  CW
  

• somethingunUSual said on Jul 07, 2009....

  It's funny but I feel like I can listen to his music again now that he's dead, as you stated earlier. I couldn't stand it for a long time. But now who's getting richer off our renewed interest? Somebody is raking in the $$$ off of this death. Guilt by association doesn't cut it with me, I don't care if he was pals with a gay porn director, doesn't make him gay or a director. I have friends who are nothing like me. But if he was so into kids in an innocent way, where were the little girls?
  

• CreativeWoman said on Jul 07, 2009....

  something,
  You make a good point.  Where were the little girls? 
  
  I guess the real cash lottery winners will be whomever owns the rights to his two unreleased albums and his taped performance at the Staple Center.  I think his will specifies who gets what otherwise until it is contested.
  
  CW
  

• ALIENated said on Jul 08, 2009....

  Yes, I feel sorry for the children as well. I have heard reports that they are not his biological kids. Of course, he is the only father they have ever known so I am sure it does not matter to them. They are like the subjects of a weird experiment gone wrong, some human playthings for the millionaire rock star. I doubt that they will ever want for much no matter who gets custody of them.

• CreativeWoman said on Jul 08, 2009....

  ALIEN,
  He was "daddy" to those kids no matter what else he was.  That's the really sad thing for me.  I watched the memorial service and the kds did seem very bonded to their aunts and uncles.  I hope, and expect, that they will be protective of them.  The kids are old enough to know who really loves them.
  
  CW
  

• pusscat said on Jul 09, 2009....

  ". . . where were the little girls?. . ."
  
  I know when I was a kid, I knew young boys who would rather cut their own arm off than play with girls lol!  If a girl tried to join the boys, you would have hurd the "yeeeuch!!  No way!" from a mile away.  MJ was a 'boy' in his own eyes, why would he wanna hang out with little girls?
  
  I totally understand the gay porn director denial.  He didn't like to admit that there were things in this world that he felt were wrong (I'd like to state here that I see nothing wrong with being a gay porn director) he was always in denial but, i'm sure he was advised by his lawyers to deny knowledge of that man's profession.
  
  I sooooo hope the children's lives can continue as stress free as possible and that they can be protected in some way.  I try to imagine how I would feel if people started slandering my deceased mum or dad.  I guess, as they grow up, no one can protect them from the media really can they?  Bless them.
  

• soaringraven said on Jul 09, 2009....

  Michael was a troubled soul, thrust into stardom at a very early age by a family perhaps overeager to gain the public spotlight.  He possessed considerable talent as both a singer and a dancer.  And at some point at least must have some people around him with considerable financial acumen.  He amassed a great fortune.
   
  As to the children, I don't really know what to think and don't really believe my thoughts matter much in the overall scheme of things.  It is my understanding however that the children invited to Neverland were largely underprivileged and yes both boys and girls.   That the allegations should come from one gender and not the other is not particularly surprising.  If an individual has a predilection toward little boys, then that is where the rumors will begin and vice versa.  Whether any of the allegations were true or not is of little concern to me as a distant observer.
   
  All this said however, I never particularly liked his music, there and only there is where I will make any definitive stand with regard to his life and career.
   
  At the same time I too have hopes that in due time the media will begin to back away from his children and allow them to grow up in as 'normal' a fashion as possible.  My hope is tempered however by the memories of what the media has done to the children of other deceased stars over the years.  The segment of the media surrounding entertainers, athletes and yes, politicians is the bastard child of the legitimate news media
   
  soaring

• pickersplock said on Jul 09, 2009....

  Well, read some of the articles on this blog and tell me what you think.
  The bedroom alarm?
  That phone calls to little boys?
  A 40 year old man having sleep overs with boys, which he himself says is perfectly normal?
  Nothing rings a warning bell?
  Nothing?
  http://blog-me-no-blogs.blogspot.com/2009/06/michael-jackson-still-dead.html
  The Vantiy Fair Article is quite interesting, don't you think?

• soaringraven said on Jul 09, 2009....

  All I really said was that my thoughts on the matter don't amount to a hill of beans in a one row bean field.  Was there substance to the allegations?  Likely as not, but what I think doesn't really matter.
   
  I have read many such articles, seen several interviews (or snippets thereof), and listened to many a pundit rant about about various aspects of Michael Jackson's life.  I think he had a screw or two loose.  But exactly how does any of that in any way affect my life?
   
  soaring

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