I keep seeing certain tools proclaim the idea of an 'honest debate.' I don't believe that people who proclaim a debate to be honest really are honest about it, but hey, maybe if the book they are publishing makes the Best Seller list, it must be, right?
I blog to vent. I blog to entertain (myself and others, actually). I blog to get things out of my head. It tends to get a bit crowded and cluttered up there, so every once and a while I have to pull things out and rearrange them for the sake of my own sanity and to not become overwhelmed and paralyzed. I forgot what mental term they call that...
So what makes up an honest debate in this two-dimensional world of the SC? Do we follow Robert's Rules of Order? Do we take anyone else's values, views, concepts or principles into account or do we slam their head into the mat until they yield to our overwhelmingly aggressive bombardment of [what feels like intentional] misunderstanding and intolerance? Since right and wrong are simply subjective, loose, rationalized and marginalized terms to those who would claim to conduct an honest debate, such an existential exercise would be nothing short of useless to those 'honest debaters' with a closed mind and a strong sense of personal pride flaunted as a false sense of competitiveness or worse a false sense of social superiority. At times it drones on into a big dick waving contest when in fact the biggest dick present is the one waving it.
With that being said, it has been pointed out to me that my use of satire, humor, puns, sarcasm, double entendres and other fun literary concepts are not handled very well by the "silent, invisible, yet ever-present" masses of tools who simply don't get it. Unlike some of the people that seem to be on the SC, I'm not writing a fucking book, nor am I out to spread my beliefs or convert anybody. If my agenda was to bring people in line with my way of thinking, even I'd have to admit that I'm going about it the wrong way...
So with that being said, I would like to touch on a few concepts and see what kind of ridiculous (or perhaps enlightening?) comments I get. Let's begin... Granted this is BC (before coffee) on a Monday morning and I've already lost this post three times already, but hey, I'm a glutton for punishment and it seems to get better every time I re-write it!
On the concept of truth in general :
My wife has this wonderful trait. She is a terrible liar. She found this out young, when the very look on her face would give her away. She simply always tells the truth. She may use sarcasm at times. She may try to water it down or sugar-coat it when necessary. She may even not say anything at a given time to show respect to the person she's about to bring the cold, hard truth to at the time. Now, prove my wife is a liar.
On the concept of faith in general :
Given that my wife is not a liar, and add the fact that I make wild, passionate love to her -- well, let's just call it fucking for the sake of universal understanding here -- I fuck my wife. I've got proof to that fact. I'll have even more proof here in about nine months. It's irrefutable proof that we fuck. I have faith that my wife doesn't cheat on me, because for the most part, if we are not together then at least one of us is working or at home or with family. Now, prove that my faith is false. Bonus points if you can somehow prove that my wife is cheating on me.
These are two basic concepts that will easily smoke out just how absurd and arrogant that some so-called debaters can be. One of the few things I retained from debate class in high school was that your goal isn't always necessary to disprove your opponent, but to knock them off balance by presenting yet another fun little concept called "doubt."
Here's my problem with doubt, and I think it's only fair that I launch into this fun little story (yet again?) just so I can be clear. I once worked for a kid who was a pathological liar and a threat to society. His whole purpose in life was to get one over on everybody and by his "genius" rise above the masses as the master of society. He made promises that he couldn't keep. He lied. He cheated. He stole. He had no regard for anyone, only himself. To the rest of us "sheep" he seemed to be just some kid who couldn't catch a break, but when we all found ourselves duped with thousands of dollars in bounced payroll checks and suddenly without work (he snuck into his offices in the middle of the night and took all the equipment and furniture), it was apparent that he got one over on everybody. His greatest skill was the ability to use doubt to craft his arguments and alter the truth and reality as a whole. This is why I'm not at all hip to narcissists. He was a master debater in college, too.
Thanks to our current president -- who is dicking all of us, like it or not -- people of this caliber, basically the criminals, have taken over government. I know some religious institutions who have similar pest problems and have been infested as well. The best medicine, cure or solution to this problem is extermination, but since that doesn't seem to be a culpable option, then the other is the "pied piper" approach... Leading them out of positions of power by making it more feasible, profitable or otherwise more self-gratifying to go somewhere else. The same can be said of exercising demons, but let's not delve into religious 'metaphors.'
javadewd posted on Jun 15, 2009
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Comments
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Twylarants said on Jun 15, 2009....
It's me again, JDewd, just stopping in to say I like this post and your way of thinking. I'm a lot like Mrs Dewd in that I don't lie, but it's because I'm too damn lazy to lie.
I don't debate because I really don't care what others think about...well, anything. I'll talk about anything until you try to change my mind and then I'm outta there, simple as that. I'm open to new and valid info about a subject, valid being the operative word.
I marvel at manipulative people like your former kid boss. Again, I'm too damn lazy to put the thought and energy into trying to use people for my own benefit. Maybe that's why I recognize it when I see it. Maybe that's why I call people on it and warn them not to try it with me. Maybe that's why I think people who fall for it are idiots.
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fragglesrock said on Jun 15, 2009....
i stay away from debate posts because it seems like people can't stick with debating the issue -
Hegemone said on Jun 15, 2009....
Java, yeah, I mostly stay away from the debate posts myself because I either can not allot the time to them they should be warranted, or I just don't know enough. As is the case now, not enough time, and I don't WANT to prove your wife is a liar or make you doubt her, even though I know this is just for the sake of a good debate. Good luck finding somebody else to bite, I'm sure they'll come along and you'll be rolling in all the 'debatey goodness', lol. -
uniquely-ironic said on Jun 15, 2009....
I never debate on issues I consider personal choice. Facts and events are debatable and should be, but choices are subjective. What you believe about your wife is your own business. -
Lucytorial said on Jun 15, 2009....
What a fabulous post. I thought to myself "how can a debate actually be honest" still I opened my mouth with a few comments, couldn't even help myself posting a quip, purely for my own enjoyment.As for proving or disproving your faith and your wifes fidelity, its not my business, I don't know you, or your wife or your lifestyle. Its pointless which I like most about your post. Not your post of course but the pointlessness of such "honest debates" -
dyingman said on Jun 15, 2009....
Honest debate requires both participants to be willing to change their minds if unable to refute the other's objections to the premises or course of logic.
This condition is seldom encountered.
The most I hope for is through repeated encounters with views similar to mine, I may weaken the misled populace's resolve, and occasionally be surprised that I missed something myself and therefore perfect my world view a smidgen more.
Obama "dicking us"?
Darn shame you didn't elaborate on THAT little bombast.
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MsStar39 said on Jun 15, 2009....
I don't waste my time debating because I can't change your mind and you can't change mine. congratulations on the arrival due in a few months, you do have your proof. -
superbozo said on Jun 15, 2009....
I think thats why I've kept away from many of the debate type blogs. I have no problem with people of different views as long as they can justify them somehow. There are many though that just try to smash their point of view down your throat without offering any logical reason why you should take their views into account. Then your always going to come across someone whos fundamental ethics are different. You can both offer reasonable and logical arguements to justify your point of view but neither will actually be swayed from their stance.Still I've decided it might be fun maybe even frustrating fun to get more involved in these so called honest arguements...err...I mean debates. -
travelr712 said on Jun 15, 2009....
did someone here accuse you or your wife of being unfaithful jd? if they did, i missed it. i ask because my impression of your statements was that you were using them as an example of your understanding of the concept of faith (hmm, too many of's). -
ALIENated said on Jun 15, 2009....
What is there to debate? This makes my head hurt, that basically the criminals have taken over government. There is no debate about that. BO's speech to the AMA about socializing our health care system makes my head hurt. How did so many Americans get so stupid all at once? I suppose the brainwashing that has been going on in public schools and the media is finally paying off. I need a nap and a one-way ticket to some other country, but where?
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hotaka said on Jun 15, 2009....
I don't like debates. I am of the belief that everyone has their own ideas about the world. It's good to hear (or read) other people's ideas because it can broaden your own or at least remind you why you don't believe those things. Someone on SC once said we are all teachers for each other. I might present my beliefs with the purpose of enlightening some who may not have read some things I have read. But at the same time I recognize what are my beliefs and that what they are based on is usually what someone else has written about or spoken about in order to teach us about their beliefs.
Debates usually get so ugly. Someone presents a strong opinion that someone else doesn't like or agree with and the name calling starts. "You're an idiot!" "Your a pile of shit!" "You're a spineless sycophant!" "Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elder berries!" What's the point? We are all different and all have different viewpoints. We can hope to enlighten each other or we know our words will fall on definitely different ears. Whatever.
Of course some people will type something just to start a war because the get their kicks from that.
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javadewd said on Jun 16, 2009....
Twyla -- Love your candor, pleasure as always.
Frags -- So true, nobody stays on topic. anarchy seems to have no rules.
Heges -- Only one tool bites, it was an easy catch
Uniqe -- You got it 99% right, just like everybody else
Lucyt -- We're all free to comment, this isn't Russia. This isn't Russia, right? I hope my pointlessness doesn't make me sound too sarcastic
Dying -- If my entertaining blog causes people to think, I believe I have already one. Maybe I'll get into that "dicking us" topic next...
MsStar -- The proof is in the pudding... Or in my puddin, depending on how you look at it...
SB -- You don't say? Heh. I've always liked your blog and can't wait for you to toss your hat in the ring. Even if I end up on the polar end of one of your future smack-downs (Trout Smack?) I think it will be fun!
Trav -- I'm sorry, did you say something? Oh, wait, my point went right over your head... Again... You're so predictable!
ALIEN -- You can have my wife's ibuprofen. She can't take it now that she's preggers. I bet stock in pharms are up due to the large amounts of headache medicines flying off the shelf... Now if we could just propel them at 180 ft/s!!
Hota -- I'm with you, debates are ugly and we are all unique... Just like everybody else... And name calling can only get fun if the tool involved doesn't realize that he's being made fun of and that it's all just a rivalry loosely based on the Three Stooges. -
hotaka said on Jun 16, 2009....
Liked the trout smack video, at least until the girl left the pool.
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