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I'm curious if the torture defenders will put their money where their mouth is. Today we learned that Scott Reoder, the terrorist who killed the abortion doctor, said that more violence is planned around the nation. 

Should President Obama begin detaining Christian extremists, hold them without trials for years, and torture them to find more extremists to hold? Should all of this be done with no checks and balances of any sort? Should the government now be allowed to spy on Christian extremists without getting a warrant?

Come on torture defenders, put up or shut up.


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Comments

  • ALIENated said on Jun 09, 2009....

    From what I have heard, Scott Reoder is mentally unstable and represents no one but himself. I know the left-leaning media would love to think there is some major right-wing conspiracy out there (I know Hillary thought so, too), but I doubt that there is. And I thought you were against doing all these things to American citizens. I know I am. However, if there is some very good reason to think that there is a bomb ticking somewhere, I would splash some water in his face to find out more about it. You really need to get over it, dude. Waterboarding is not that big of a deal (I seriously doubt that what we call waterboarding is what the Japenese were doing to our guys in WWII). It is non-fatal and very effective. Enjoy your freedom.

  • doortoinsanity said on Jun 09, 2009....
    What's a torture defender?  I may be one...
    Could you define torture, please.


  • bloc said on Jun 09, 2009....
    @door

    People that believe our government should have a policy for torture which includes what the Bush administration authorized.

    @alien
    This terrorist was a member of two extremist groups that were highlighted in a government report prior to this act of terrorism. He now claims that there is more terrorism planned. I just want to see if you guys really support the policies of the Bush years. Detention of suspected terrorists without trials for years, torture, and rendition. This case fits the arguments you guys made for Bush's policies. Here's a terrorist who is a member of extremist groups who says that he knows of more planned attacks. 

    Where is your intellectual honesty? Or is your opinion based on the color of the skin or the God they believe in?
  • doortoinsanity said on Jun 09, 2009....
    I do support torture policies in war.
    But not against a United States Citizen. 
    Period.
    That's why we pay the government. For intelligence.
    Not to detain a US Citizen and torture/detain them for info.
    What the hell are they doing on our dime?
    Hell, we could do that.  What the hell do we need them for?
    I'm behind the US citizen, no matter what.  
  • bloc said on Jun 10, 2009....
    I don't believe that torture works, and that it does us more harm than good. Then it's immoral.

    How do you know who to torture and when to stop torturing? How do you change the inevitable, people using torture to get people to tell them what they want to hear? How do you then complain when people do it to Americans?

    What if we aren't in a war? I.e. the war on terror is not a war in the same way that the war on drugs is not a war.
  • ALIENated said on Jun 10, 2009....

    However, if there is some very good reason to think that there is a bomb ticking somewhere, I would splash some water in his face to find out more about it.

    Can you read? You ignore people's answers and squeal about intellectual honesty?

    I would also say that people who fly airplanes into buildings full of people ARE terrorists and people like Scott Reoder are crazed crackpots. Just because the BOA describes these people as terrorists does not mean they are terrorists. However, if there is some reason to think they are planning terrorism, do whatever it takes. Be my guest.

    By the way, are the church members, where Tiller attended, all baby killers? He was a member so they must all think the same thoughts, right? Just because Scott Reoder was a member of some group does not mean the whole group would act as he did. Just because you live in California does not mean you are for homosexual unions, right? I did a post, which was totally ignored, about a Muslim that killed an American soldier. That means all Muslims are nutcases, right? The left-leaning press reported almost nothing about that.

    Do you not find it strange that the Dubya administration went after foreign terrorists (except in the questionable case of Padilla) and the BOA now thinks only our fellow Americans are terrorists?

  • bloc said on Jun 10, 2009....
    I can read, but we know that we used torture many times in situations that were not the ticking time bomb. You choose to ignore this.

    Alien, you are clearly applying a different set of standards to different groups.

    "Just because Scott Reoder was a member of some group does not mean the whole group would act as he did. "

    Yes, but if we look at their rhetoric it certainly seems likely. Isn't this why we label certain groups as terrorists? I mean, just because the 9/11 hijackers were members of radical groups doesn't mean that the whole group would act this way. right? Come on alien, be consistent.
  • ALIENated said on Jun 11, 2009....

    Dude, come back to earth. I would not personally torture anyone unless it had something to do with my family, maybe. Let me tell you a little secret, if the FBI or CIA or Homeland Security, or whoever thinks Scott has some knowledge of a "ticking time bomb", as you call it, you can bet your ass they will do whatever it takes to get that information out of him. I personally am not disagreeing with your stance on torture, per se, I am at odds with you thinking Bush is the first president to sanction agressive interrogation techniques. I am also disagreeing that waterboarding is torture. And I do not think our people torture our enemies simply for sport, which is what you seem to imply. I suppose I have a little more faith in our military and agencies than you do. There may be some isolated instances of mistreatment, but that is not the norm. McCain was tortured for months (years?), long after his information was stale, simply for sport. I do not think that is what America does. I think what happened during the Bush administation would have happened during the Clinton or Carter administration, under the same circumstances. Well, maybe not Carter. He is an idiot who seemed more against us than for us. In fact, some presidents have done far worse. (Watch the History Channel sometime.)

  • stopmediabias said on Jun 11, 2009....
    This guy was a nutcase and several pro-life groups condemned the act. 
     
    First of all we didn't torture people, we did harshly interrogate people who were hardcore jiadists whose information led to life saving intelligence.
     
    If an active extremist group here in the U.S., meaning they were responsible for numerous deaths in the past by cowardly acts like bombs, and we caught someone we believed was a leader and through other intelligence determined an attack was in the very near future then yes we should harshly interrogate them.  Torture no, torture doesn't work and everyone knows that, except in the near impossible ticking time bomb scenerio.
  • doortoinsanity said on Jun 11, 2009....
    So we should harshly interrogate our government?  Can we do that?
    I'm sure it will work. heh.
  • kelly said on Jun 11, 2009....
    "First of all we didn't torture people, we did harshly interrogate people who were hardcore jiadists whose information led to life saving intelligence."

    That's incorrect.  It's also a lie.  The US specifically tortured prisoners; some to the point of death.  The only people claiming we got good information from them are the people who authorized the torture in the first place (i.e. Dick Cheney, et. al.).

    Back on topic, of course Reoder would be subject to the same detention and torture policies that Bush put into place.  If the shoes fits....  Funny how when it's white, home-grown terrorists in question that the Republicans don't feel like sending them to Guantanamo and torturing them.
  • stopmediabias said on Jun 12, 2009....
    Kelly- "yawn" You don't have time so why bother?  Just repeating the same thing over and over doesn't make it anymore true.  At least I can back up the things I say.
  • ALIENated said on Jun 12, 2009....

    If the FBI or CIA or Homeland Security, or whoever thinks Scott has some knowledge of a "ticking time bomb", as you call it, you can bet your ass they will do whatever it takes to get that information out of him. (Maybe if I say it several times you will acknowledge it.)

    Liberals like to think there is some "vast right-wing conspiracy" (just ask Hillary) when, in fact, conservatives rarely engage in the kind of tactics that liberals so often engage in (such as environmental terrorists or animal activists).

    If a pro-life group were to advocate murder then it would actually be a pro-death group. They would be what they hate. That makes no sense. I think the problem is, abortionists (the real pro-death group) would like to think that pro-lifers are as sick as they are.

    Pro-lifers regret that Mr. Tiller was murdered as much as they would regret the murder of anyone. However, they rejoice in is the fact that this baby killer will not be killing any more babies just as they would if he had been the victim of a car wreck. Of course, some other pro-death baby killer will step up to claim his profits, I am pretty sure.

    Scott does not belong to a terrorist group. He is a lone murderer. That is why he will not be agressively interrogated like some Muslim terrorist, not because he is white or because he claims to be a Christian. (Does he claim to be a Christian? I am a Christian and I would never do anything like that.)

    Even Mr. Tiller did not believe that true Christians would act as Scott did. Otherwise he would not have been hanging around a church every Sunday, let alone be working there.

    In every philosophical debate there are those who want to change the hearts and minds of those with opposing views, and there are those few who just want to snuff out those with opposing views. One bad apple can make you question the rest of the barrel, but that does not mean all the other apples are actually rotten. It simply means you have found ONE bad apple.

    However, in the case of Muslim terrorists, we see bad apple after bad apple, and there is such a thing as the law of averages.

    I do find it almost comical that, when a Hollywood movie is about terrorism, the terrorists are almost always a domestic, white supremacist group. Even the recent James Bond flick Casino Royale implied that the 9/11 attack was actually a plot to make millions in the stock market (by old white guys, no doubt). So I suppose it is no wonder liberals, constantly indoctrinated by Hollywood propaganda, would believe that Scott is part of a vast right-wing conspiracy, when in reality he is just a psycho.

    I frankly doubt that they would have to torture Scott because there is nothing to find out. They probably already know all the members of the groups he is in since "domestic terrorists" are now the priority. What are they supposed to do, give them all psych evaluations? Too bad the president and his appointees are not subject to that.

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