• SeanRenaud said on Jun 08, 2009....

  How so?

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 09, 2009....

  The bible is not law, it is literature.  Literature that can be learned from if read intelligently.  (possibly)
  
  Religious or not, everyone owns a bible or two.  Or they should, to be prepared for the freaky's out there.
  
  NOT everyone has read The Constitution, obviously.
  
  They should just put copies of picture books in there instead, I'm not sure the general populace even reads.
  
  

• ALIENated said on Jun 09, 2009....

  The Gideons put those New Testaments in the rooms, as you probably know ...

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gideons_International

  They do it to evangelize and hopefully lead people to Christ. But I suppose you are saying the Constitution is more important than the New Testament. We might not have the Constitution if not for the Bible, especially the New Testament. Try as they will, leftist will never convince me that this country was not founded mainly by Christians, and drifting away from Christianity will most likely be its undoing.

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Whether we were funded by Christians or not is not the point.  They separated church and state on purpose because one should have no influence on the other and they knew that two hundred thirty years ago. 
   
  door as usual has no inteligent point here though so we would both have been better off saving our time and looking at porn.  It at least might have some influence on the future.

• javadewd said on Jun 09, 2009....

  You can't post the ten commandments in a government building because the statements :
  
  Thou shall not steal
  Thou shall not commit adultery
  -and-
  Thou shall not lie
  
  ...in a building full of lawyers, judges and politicians creates a hostile work environment.
  
  What I find ironic is that nowhere in the US Constitution (federal law) does it ever say that "thou shall not murder" yet it says "we are endowed with inalienable rights granted us by our Creator," yet if I'm not religious (a-religious, anti-religious or atheist) then the concept of abortion really isn't illegal to me. I guess everything is relative in that case...
  
  Good idea, though, putting a copy of the bill of rights and the constitution in hotel rooms... With a bible would be nice!
  

• ALIENated said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Good point about posting the commandments, Dewd. And I think the Bible had a big influence on our founding documents, as you point out. I see no harm in putting a copy of the Constitution in every hotel room. If only some group could get as fired up about that as the Gideons are about distributing Bibles. The Bible will exist long after the Constitution has been trampled under foot by the likes of our current president and congress. I would suggest committing as much of it to memory as possible before the book burning starts. I think we only have to look to Nazi Germany to get a pretty good idea of where Borax is about to take us. We may not be burnng books anytime soon, but laws like The Fairness Doctrine are meant to stop free speech, or at least speech that does not glorify the current administration. Hate speech laws were the first step in that direction, but I suppose that is off topic.

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 09, 2009....

  alien - There are different kinds of bibles in hotels across the country.  Depending on where you are, who owns it, etc.  You are right.  The Constitution was heavily influenced by people who were Christians, but they made it clear, religious point of view was ones own choice.
  
  sean - you are correct.  On all points.  I do this for shits & giggles, not to shape the future.  Please!
  
  java - You always make me smile.  :-))
            They could put both in there, alas, no one would read either unless they were really bored. 

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 09, 2009....

  alien - i agree. 
  i was pondering it last night along with the NEW DEAL....Hate speech laws. 
  i was tracing it back.  That is where the precedent started I believe, or I fell asleep at that time.  Dunno.
  
  U boys got me in the morning when I'm defenseless.  Been reading them girlie blogs, huh?  LOL!
  
  
  

• javadewd said on Jun 09, 2009....

  I wish the Gideons were more fired up. All the old men are retiring around here and it's hard to find any new blood under 35 or so. For a group of businessmen I have to scoff at the lack of leadership. Eventually they'll get themselves together, but until then they will still have great retorts like this one:
  
  
  Woman : You can't hand out bibles [to these high school graduates] here. This is a public sidewalk!
  
  Gideon : Yes, ma'am, you're absolutely right, it is a public sidewalk. Would you like a testiment?
  
  
  Perhaps she needs to read her civil law... I'm sure her graduating high schooler will later point out to her how uneducated she sounded by making this statement loud enough for everyone around her (especially the parents) to hear it.
  

• javadewd said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Mid-morning here... Just checking for squirrels.

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 09, 2009....

  java, i honestly don't believe that high school textbooks are good for America's children.  They need some political science college textbooks or something. 
  We should post civic stuff everywhere!  Why not?  Can't hurt!
  
  I'll take a bible.  I'll add it to my stash...
  ;-))
  

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 09, 2009....

  o, it is mid-morning.  I love it when it goes fast!
  

• travelr712 said on Jun 09, 2009....

  there is no mention of any diety or in the u.s. constitution. the only mention of religion at all is in the first amendment which prohibits government from making laws establishing any religion:
   
  "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
   
  the mention of diety comes in the declairation of independance, which is a formal declairation of war against england, not a 'document our country was built on', because it was a colony, not a country at the time. this mention does not specify any particular religion or diety, christian or otherwise:
   
  "the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,"
   
  "that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"
   
  to assert that the constitution and bill of rights (which are the documents that our nation is founded on) are based on christian or any other religious principles, only emphasizes that the person making the assertion has not read the constitution. it also shows that their argument is totally baseless, what is known in debating and ethics both as a fallacous argument, or an error in inductive, not deductive, reasoning. specifically, this is a 'red herring' fallacy, one in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue.

• ALIENated said on Jun 09, 2009....

  There was probably no reason in their minds to remind people of God. Most everyone believed in Him in those days. Our comfortable, nanny state makes it easier not to believe these days, but the time is coming. Even you will bow to Him. The numbskulls in charge now are going to have just the opposite effect to what they would like.

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 09, 2009....

  They were smart enough to know to keep religion OUT of it. 
  So does that make them bad christians?
  I don't think so. 
  I think they were smart men who knew a line had to be drawn for the entire concept to work.
  Fight amongst yourselves about religion.
  Not worth it to me.  If those bibles work so well,
  WHERE THE FUCK IS YOUR GOD NOW?
  
  As for me, I bow to no one.
  
  except...
  
  
  
      

• travelr712 said on Jun 09, 2009....

  still complete speculation alien, with no factual evidence presented. you are entitled to your opinion, of course, but that is all you have presented, an opinion, nothing to refute any statement i made. where is your evidence to support that the constitution was based on the new testament? where is your evidence to support that 'most everyone' believed in your god in those days? you have presented nothing but conjecture.

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Ahhh, travel,
  U are a word man.
  I'm getting excited...
  

• javadewd said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Well, if it isn't my favorite fallacy, Trav. Seen your dick lately, pal?

• travelr712 said on Jun 09, 2009....

  a word man door?
   
  that is an 'ad hominem' fallacy, jd.

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Exactly.

• javadewd said on Jun 09, 2009....

  I think Trav just fumbled over three nouns...

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 09, 2009....

  lol.  close enough.

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Sorry ALIEN.  I don't bow.  Ever.

• javadewd said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Tools don't bow, they blow... Just thought I'd hand you a pair of knee pads and a toothbrush, OSHA and DHHS regulations, you know...

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Don't lie Java.  You'll be standing and fighting right beside me.  I look forward to it.

• javadewd said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Granted I love a good fight, not so much in the blog sphere. I'm not sure if you're just apt to keep everybody on their toes or if you're pushing an agenda, but when the shit hits the fan, lines will be drawn, so be sure you're not on the wrong side.
  
  I'll admit outright that some of the shit that the BOA bothers me because it's slavery in reverse. I don't understand why black America is willing to go back to the older than old ways while they're getting duped by "the man" to think that everything is going to be sunshine and rainbows. There are white hoods alright, but they're being worn by the federal government, not the folks that voted them in. It's revolting and it makes me want to join the revolt against it. You won't call it Socialism, but to call it Fascism doesn't seem to bother anybody (especially the liberals) either.
  
  My wife just pointed out that if you have parents or a wife or anything that you love, you bow to somebody or something... Let's face it, if you don't stand for something, then you'll fall for everything. Don't be a tool.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Loving something doesn't make you subserviant to it.  You only bow to things that are your Master and I have none as of yet.

  As for the rest of the post there is much wrong with Black Culture and I'm not shy about pointing it out.  However the majority of complaints against Obama are baseless.  He's not a socialist in any meaningful way nor is a fascist.  To call him such just makes you look silly.

  If you read enough of my stuff you know there are many many things on the Democrat agenda that I disagree with.  And right now Republicans are wasting any and all public favor with their incessant whining.  When Obama does fuck something up (and he will.  While I believe UHC to be a necessity I have doubts that Hillary Clinton's previously failed strategy will suceed this time.)  Nobody is going to listen because we're going to remember you as the guys who tried to claim that Abortion Doctor murders are up 100% over the previous administration because Obama is a pussy.

  Remember the story of the boy who cried wolf?

• travelr712 said on Jun 09, 2009....

  wow jd, you can actually write comments that aren't just ad hominem slur, or are those just saved for me?
   
  i don't like everything obama's done either. his administration helped push through the supreme court decision to allow the sale of gm to fiat. this will cut the value of 3 of my state's bond issues for pension funds by at least 70%, causing great loss to the pensioners and/or great hardship on the state to make up the difference, while also making it more difficult for the state to float bond issues in the future. in an already struggling state, this is not good. however, as i understand it, this will absolve the federal government from it's 60% ownership, which is good. but it will also mean that a foreign based manufacturer will own one of the biggest american car makers, and that's not good.
   
  it does show one thing though, just as the 10 major banks who are paying back their TARP loans with interest this month shows. obama is not a socialist, his administration is not trying to gain and keep control of american companies. and so far, the only uhc plan being proposed is a government insurance program as an alternative choice to private firms. this is not socialism either, it does not constitute a government takeover of existing insurance firms or funds or drive them out of business. it is a plan that causes them to compete with another player. it may work and it may not, that remains to be seen, but it is not socialist any more than the fdic is socialist.
   
  i am not a liberal, btw. i am a moderate. i try to look at as many sides of an issue as i can and determine their value based on individual merit.
   
  but none of this has anything to do with the idea of putting bibles or the constitution into hotel rooms, so they are all red herring arguments to the point of this post.

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 10, 2009....

  sean - I never meant it like that, or even thought of it.  (the idea of Obama being a pussy.)  It was a simple observation.  It's not just Obama, it happened with Clinton too.  I'm not sure further back.  Remember everyone was on their toes waiting to see what Bush would do about stem cell research?  He pacified both sides.  Then the killings stopped.  Now that Obama is in there they have started again and will probably continue throughout his term.  But I also believe that would be true for any democratic president.  just a theory.  I can't show you proof of anything except there were none killed while Bush was in office and Bush eventually sealed the deal in August.  here is a secret.  One of my nicknames is cryptic.  That's just how I am.  I understand it and I just assume everyone else does too.  lol.
  
  Republicans are disappointing.  But they're scared.  All of the politicians should be. We need to watch who is stomping on our Constitution and vote them out. 
  Bush opened the doors. Obama has ran with the agenda and surpassed the craziness of all presidents, (I heard on the news a few minutes ago that he has spent more thus far than all other president's combined, (Fox, dunno, didn't check) and he stills smells like a rose.  Obama will be ok.  As for Hilary's healthcare or any other UHC, I hope it never happens.           
  This didn't start with Obama.  This started long ago.
  
  Trav - i feel really weird calling you that.  I'm calling u ravel.  You can talk about anything in here.  Just talk.  The silence will kill us. 
  
  I think we all agree that The Constitution (when I say that, I am always including The Bill Of Rights) should be laying around more places.  I may go copy a bunch and spread them around.  I can't see anyone objecting...  
  If you guys can all agree, I'm thinking it's a sure bet!      

• travelr712 said on Jun 10, 2009....

  it's funny. people who know me here and irl still call me trav instead of my real name. but you can call me whatever you like. think i'll call you 'ity' :-P
   
  i thought i was talking...
   
  you can copy the constitution and leave it wherever you like. if the gideons can do it with the bible, why shouldn't you be able to do it with the constitution?

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 10, 2009....

  Trav - I like ity.  it fits.
  I think i may take up the cause.  Seriously.
  
  

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