• doortoinsanity said on Jun 02, 2009....

  I agree.  Obama has HELPED undo the Constitution in less days than it took to write it, but the doors were already opened for him.  I also believe it is too late.  We will adapt.  It will just be different.  In a bad way...
  Where does he find time to sell cars in between all of that other stuff he does.  Hmmm.
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 02, 2009....

  I think your definition of socialism is outdated and innacurate.

  I don't mind that we own ONE auto company.  I personally think that the government should own ONE of everything.  One grocery chain, one car company, one bank, etc, etc.  These would basically serve not only as examples of the model but also as a baseline for quality.  I'm thrilled we are starting to take control.  I again point out that the existance of public schools, USPS and the military has done nothing to harm UPS/FedEx, Private (particuarly Catholic) schools and Blackwater.  The two can coexist and there is no reason they they shouldn't.  Hell assuming capitalism is true (which I believe it is) a government owned something will naturally fall by the wayside (as USPS largely has)

  Honestly this is the hope and change I voted for.  If anything I'm a little pissed he's being such a pansy.  I wish he'd walk into congress tommorow and tell them to legalize drugs, gay marriage, close Gitmo (bringing the prisoners into the US prisons) Deal with the inevitable problems that would cause (which are many, very, very many) Close the border to illegal immigrants, step up the raids to at least Clinton levels and work on reform, but only AFTER securing the border.  Personally I think he's being a bitch.  He's got a unique spot in history as a president with a congress to back him that is likely to stay because Republicans have been unable to cope with his election.  Instead of uniting and presenting a strong united front they've retreated into insanity.

  The reason is that for whatever reason you believe Rush Limbaugh when he says you lost because you were centrist instead of extreme.  That is false.  You came close because you were centrist.  The problem is that for a Republican apparently Centrist=wishy washy which isn't the same.  You still have to have things that separate you from the opposition.

  Obama is winning in 2012 if things keep going at their present rate.  Obviously I can't tell the future but barring a radical shift in things he's winning.  I bet the R party doesn't even truly run in 12.  That like the Dems in 04 you'll pick a throwaway who probably won't win instead of a true champ.  There is a reason why Hillary didn't run in 04, and that's simple.  Unseating an encumbant is near impossible.  

  It's really really early to be talking about the election anyway.  We haven't even hit the six months in mark.

• GrapeKoolaid said on Jun 02, 2009....

  Give credit where credit is due.  FDR (commie sympathizer) is the father of American Socialism. 
  
  'Bama's just playing ball like all his predecessors.  It's business as usual. 
  
  
  

• curmudgeon said on Jun 02, 2009....

  But we don't own ONE auto company, we own TWO, and divisions within each company are being sold off to foreign interests. How does this protect or create American jobs? Moreover, with only one American-owned major competitor left, it seems to me that the Obama Administration will very soon run into major anti-trust and conflict of interest problems. Sadly, his dogs in Congress will do nothing, his parrots in the media will say nothing so that the American public sees nothing.
  
  Sean is right on one score - we're less than six months into this presidency. If his policies pan out, the nation stands to gain. If they don't, he will be a one-term president. He can only get by on slogans, one-liners, bromides and platitudes for so long.
  
  Eventually Americans will demand results.
  
  
  

• justk said on Jun 02, 2009....

  As of yesterday, the US only owns ONE auto company (GM). Chrysler came out of bankruptcy just as GM was going into bankruptcy.
  
  And I agree with Sean. It's way too early to be projecting how long Obama will be our president.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 02, 2009....

  Honestly Cur selling the companies off to foreign interests directly saves US jobs by keeping people employed.  You do know that Toyota cars are BUILT in the US by US workers right?  The plants that are sold aren't going to be physically moved, nor are the investors whereever they may be going to import workers to work at the factories. 

  As far as the anti-trust/monopoly laws go it doesn't matter if there is only one Amerian owned company left on the market.  There are still competitors out there.  Besides sadly we don't seem to enforce our antitrust laws anymore anyway.

• D6fer said on Jun 02, 2009....

  sean....so Obama is the Father of Neo-Socialism?
  
  you know you can re-name shit, but it's still shit.
  
  Every country in Europe has tried Socialism and failed at it.....what makes you think it can succeed here?
  
  Are humans in the United States more evolved than those in other countries?
  Isn't human nature basically the same anywhere? Greed.....corruption....etc.....does that not exist under Socialism?
  How about bureaucracy?
  
  You know.....I'll have to look back at some old posts, but your tune sure seems to have changed since Obama came into the picture.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 02, 2009....

  1.  First Americans ARE better than other people so just because somethign failed for them doesn't mean it will fail for us. 

  2.  This is the more important part.  Obama isn't a socialist.  Which is what I keep saying.  It doesn't become socialist until the government owns EVERYTHING.  Not when they are competing in the market place.

  Capitalism is based on the concept that through competition we will be forced to create better products to keep our customers.  Our prices, our quality everything is defined by our competitions because without them we can just sit around and get fat.

  Socialism removes the emphasis to suceed and excell because there is no point, you get an equal share of the spoils regardless of if you put in equal work.  Again I point out to you that we have UPS and FEDex working right along side the USPS.  That is proof enough for me that the government owning a company does nothing to harm private ventures.  Nobody I know would trust the USPS with anything more important than a Christmas Card.  But they are still there and provide an alternative.

• D6fer said on Jun 02, 2009....

  sean.....here is an excerpt from one of your posts regarding Socialism:
  
   This is ultimately why a redistribution of wealth wouldn't do any good. In the end with a few new additions at both the top and the bottom money would again gather in the same places. Around those who understood the nature of money and many of the people crying that the rich man takes advantage of them would still be on the bottom.
  
  source
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 02, 2009....

  And it's true.  But so far we are not redistributing wealth. Aside from the Stimulus package last year that basically paid a month worth of gas for people (least in CA) we aren't redistributing yet.

• D6fer said on Jun 02, 2009....

  Didn't the UAW get a bunch of GM stock? or was that Chrysler?....either way....that sounds like redistribution to me.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 02, 2009....

  It was GM not that it matters.  The government had already bailed out the companies at that point.  It becaome government property to be divied up as the government saw fit.  LEt me ask you a question.  Is it socialist to give your children allowance?  If your wife doesn't hold down a job is it socialist that she gets to spend money?

  Now if we start raising taxes on the rich AND increasing tax returns for the poor that's one thing.  But not us buying things up.  It's OURs to do with as we see fit as the owner.  Besides the UAW got chicken scratch and if the investors hadn't been such idiots the UAW would have gotten less.

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 03, 2009....

  Capitalism means those companies should have cut back before they got into trouble.  Government bailouts did nothing but cause harm to a system that was already working.  If those companies were going under, they should have acted like a business and restructured on their own.  That's how it works. 
  
  That said, the USPS is a great example of this situation already existing.  I don't trust them even with greeting cards, personally. 
  
  My mailman hates me because I never empty my mailbox.  What could possibly be in there I want?
  

• zykore said on Jun 03, 2009....

  ok, seriously, are you guys 12 or something?
   
  D6fer: firstly, not every European country has tried socialism and failed.
   
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_European_Socialists
   
  How about i save you trouble and advice you check the current member states.
   
   
  SeanRenaud:
   
  "Socialism removes the emphasis to suceed and excell because there is no point, you get an equal share of the spoils regardless of if you put in equal work"
   
  Yes, you are correct, apart from talking about completly the wrong subject.
   
  http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-socialism-and-communism.htm
   
  Socialism looks to reward the workers output. COMMUNISM rewards the workers needs, often tending to create the situation which you so quote.
   
   
  Curmudgen: let me put your mind at ease in regards to the car industry. I know you and your commrades (relax guys... its a phrase) like to think that america is at the forfront of EVERYTHING, but trust me, noone outside of America buys american cars. their a joke. in terms of milage, consumption, efficiency, their a joke. i'll say it again in case you didn't catch that last bit. joke.
   
  For those complaining about the government owning certain key players in industry (cars, finance etc), theres no upside for a government to own these comodities. if they'd acted as responsible companies, they wouldnt need the financial backing and they wouldnt be going into administration.
   
  Your honestly complaining that your elected powers take charge of a situation that would damage the economy and social situation even further then it is now? if it wasn't for American business and banks pumping each other offwith no interest for anything other then themselves, they wouldnt be in this mess. Japan was in recession for 10 years. you what they did? KEPT IT TO THEMSELVES
   
  Please, if you're going to bitch and moan like children, at least get your figures and facts right first.
   

• kevinunknown said on Jun 03, 2009....

  So i read this blog and thought to myself this guy just hates Obama and knows shit all about socialism. Then i started to read all the bull shit posts about how bad socialism is and how grate capitalism is even though its fucked up the world economy, hey it’s still grate, right? Then just as i was about to write a post pointing out were you’s have all gone wrong i got to the last post and thank god some has done it for me ZYKORE. And now i know why you all have such views your all still weighting to start puberty.

  Thanks zykore!!! Nice to know i am not alone

• pickersplock said on Jun 03, 2009....

  Two words D6, government cheese! 
  Remember?
  On that I rest my case.............too bad we can't all time travel back to the seventies to taste that delectable concoction, bleck!

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 03, 2009....

  kev - Did you sacrifice all of your spelling knowledge just to be smarter than everyone else?
  Good job!   

• D6fer said on Jun 03, 2009....

  sean.....the family unit is more like communism.....the only place it will ever work.....in the traditional sense you have the dictator (father) .....everyone has their job (chores) and everyone shares in the income.
  
  door......had we not given GM all that money, they still would have went bankrupt....it just would have been cheaper for us.....I wonder what they did with the 1st 13 billion?....up until 5 or 10 years ago, the USPS was the only government agency that operated in  the black!
  
  zykore.......hmmmmm....zykore? isn't that a boner drug or something?
  
  kevinunknown......ooooooh! ouch! don't you just hate it when you go off at the mouth like you know something, then misspell shit? Better download firefox dude....has built in spell check!
  
  pickers......oh how I long for the Carter years!......at least we were still Capitalists!
  
  
  
  
  

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 03, 2009....

  Maybe he will get 2 terms.  People will really be afraid of change by then!
  
  D6...They should have went bankrupt on their own, instead they sold their souls.  For nothing as u said.  It was squandered.  Sad. 
  
  I remember them talking about it on the news beforehand with the banks.  I remember screaming, "NOOOOOOOOOOO!" @ the TV in a hotel room somewhere in Texas.  Abilene, I do believe.  (See, It traumatized me so bad I actually remember that)
  Didn't help though. 
  I also remember band members rushing to turn the TV off.  They shut it off after that through the rest of the tour...at least when I walked into the room.
  
  I thought USPS was in the black until recently.  They just give me junkmail...lol
  
  
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 03, 2009....

  1.  Lets be fair most government projects don't have the chance to operate in the Black.  The are incapable of generating revenue and thus it makes the whole example rather moot.  I mean I bet you if Marines (as a base) were capable of sending troops out to gaurd various facilities that they would and might even turn a profit.  (might be wrong obviously we won't know until it's tried) but NOTHING the military does directly brings in revenue.  Same goes for teachers, cops and road builders.  Tell me what NASA collects money on.  I mean youre example is flawed at its best.

  2.  Duh socialism doesn't work.  It removes the urge to suceed.  HOWEVER we can look at history and prove with out a doubt that letting the poor get too poor is dangerous .  Hense a certain amount of redistibution is wise to keep the masses from rioting.

  I should also point out that Conservatives are apt to point out taxes (particularly progressive taxes) as anti-capitalist.  This is mis information (not a lie mind you)  The fact is that it matters deeply how we make the divisions.  I'm pulling numbers out of my ass so if someone has more accurate numbers feel free to correct me.

  20% of one million is more than 50% of Two hundred fifty thousand.  (just quick in my head math brings that to Two hundred thousand vs one hundred twenty five thousand).  Fifty percent of two hundred fifty thousand is more than 90% of one hundred thousand.  (Again quick in my head math brings that two one hundred twenty five thousand vs ninety thousand.)  Which I might add is basically the national average for a worker.  It's like adding one more WORKER to your house.

  My point is simple.  So long as the people who make the most money on the surface make the most money in the end you can't honestly claim that taxes mean people won't work.  Not if they aren't idiots.  

  What is more important is that unless you are talking lassiez faire capitalism (which still doesn't require that the government not compete, merely that the government doesn't actually set rules.  Which in theory is possible.  As is the case with the world.  The US does not set global policy, it merely sets and example and then makes others follow it. 

• zykore said on Jun 04, 2009....

  D6fer, if you're going to prove your point, try a method outside the realm of insulting my screen name. If thats the level at which your playing, i'll leave you to the kiddies group here. Don't worry, mummy will be here to pick you up soon.
   
  In the big boys world, we use knowledge to impress, not 6 year old banter.
   
  kevinunknown: sir, do not worry, you are far from alone on this one.
   
  SeanRenauld: i respect your points much higher then i do the D6fer, but even still, i don;t believe that you understand socialism enough in order to say it doesnt work. Capitilsm is still utilisable under the umbrella of socialsm, the gains from taxation goes to all of society BUT in accordence with how hard you worked in order to contribute. Those who work less, get less.
   
  Commuinism's eventual goal is to create a classless system where all are equal, lead by the smallest posable government, relitivly comparable to a totalitarian state. Because the workers are paid by the state, they are paid the same wage regarless oftheir productivity, hence there is no emphasis to progress.
   
  Another hugh difference between the two systems is that socialism is a mainly economic principled idiology whereas communism is much more in the habbit of commanding the decisions of the private life also.
   
   
   
  Be cool, stay in school

• javadewd said on Jun 04, 2009....

  To Sean, zykore, Kev, Trav and the rest of you tools Socialism is that incredible new buzzword for how great things will be when we can all sit around and be lazy while the government gives us all checks. Congratulations, you're all just fucking tools!
  
  Black is the new black and the rest of us are hateful sexist homo-bashing Nazis. No, I get it, you all seem to love Barack Obama so much that you'll probably marry him. It's going to be legal enough soon anyway, so you can also marry you're shaved declawed hamsters, too. They deserve it, you know, being up your ass all the time to benefit your dancing skills. How about a spot of tea? Perhaps a lump or two??
  
  Traditions, heritage, moral values, these are all things of the past. We all need to be more progressive and move on from our stick-in-the-ass ways in which we actually prosecute people for breaking laws and performing lude acts like raping children, youthful relatives and animals. These things are all forms of entertainment that should be protected by that useless document that once defined our country that you all want picked apart and marginalized.
  
  Enough sarcasm? But wait... There's more!
  
  I love a president who pushed a bill to pull babies out of wombs and shove a spike through their skull. It's patriotic! They should make that steak white and blue and call it a new tradition, but that would be bad, because traditions are out-dated.
  
  I love a president who takes over banks, car companies, and other American industries simply to watch them crash and burn and make every dime "we" poured in to them (without any say in it) have absolutely no positive effect whatsoever. Had they simply folded (like that evil capitalism allows them to do), sure, we would have crashed the markets, but we'd have been over it now and everything would have been reset. There has been no reset and the economy is still in free-fall. Oh, but you know those less than 200 point gains are oh, so healthy! The next day they fall just as much. Have we even gotten close to 10,000 again yet? I don't see that happening in the next 18 months! BO is a fucking liar. There is no end to this decline.
  
  I love a president who doesn't know shit about foreign policy talking in Egypt (which by the US "forcing our democracy and morals upon" eventually let go of their extremist views and no longer perform terrorists acts upon Israel) as a shrine to Jimmy "Mr. Hyper-Inflation" Carter who was a useless tool when it came to standing up to the Iranians. If one ideology begets another ideology, we're looking at a president who can out-do the other in bringing us to the brink of WW3. I hope that after bowing to the Prince that he kisses the King's ass, too. We need the publicity shot for TMZ.
  
  I love a president that sees no problem shipping off chunks of our gutted #1 automotive maker to places like China after promising that he'd save or create millions of jobs. Seems like a step in the right direction... For him... Fuck the rest of us!
  
  When I have liberal friends calling me up wondering where the fallout shelter is and I see the fuck-heads of evil jumping on here saying that "we don't know what Socialism is" that we are "misinformed" "ignorant" and otherwise "unintelligent" I have to smell fear. The propoganda machine isn't making much headway anymore for you liberal assholes. Only the other news outlets even bother to watch MSNBC anymore, except for those really embarassing clips that we like to bring up to make fun of your dumb asses, but we find those on YouTube anyway. We wouldn't want to waste a Neilson rating on their goofy ass. So I recommend you go hump somebody else's leg.
  

• curmudgeon said on Jun 04, 2009....

  Sean - Hummer is being sold off to a Chinese manufacturer. I don't know the details, and if I'm wrong I'm wrong, but somehow I doubt that the Chinese are going to build the Hummer here in America. Ditto for the Canadian manufacturer. This is NOT preserving American jobs. Moreover, many of the foreign automakers are located not in Michigan, home of the UAW, but in southern States like Tennessee where the union isn't so powerful. I'm fine with non-union labor, but I don't see how selling off to foreign makers will preserve union jobs here in the US - isn't that what Obama was supposed to be doing here?
  
  zykore - how about you get YOUR facts straight? GM's auto business was doing better abroad than in the United States. It seems that folks around the world like American cars more than Americans do.
  
  Of course, now that GM will be selling off some of its divisions to foreign makers, they will be left with producing smaller models that Americans have in recent decades only preferred when gas prices skyrocketed. Moreover, GM will be producer fewer numbers of their smaller cars, thus stifling any chance of capturing market share. Even that point is moot because Americans preferred foreign hybrids to American.
  
  If this seems to you like a sensible business model, by all means I urge you to buy GM. I'm not going to have to consider a new vehicle for some years yet, and it will very likely NOT be GM or Chrysler. If it's American, it will be Ford, which wisely chose not to play Obama's game.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 04, 2009....

  Since most of this was drivel (and I'm late for work) I'll ask just one.  Cur:  Why do you believe that China isn't going to produce the cars here just like Japan does?  If they have to deal with the UAW or not is beside the point what makes you believe they are physically going to move the plants?

• zykore said on Jun 04, 2009....

  curmudgin, the models of cars they sell overseas arn't the same one's they have in the states. to pop your little elitist bubble, they simply arn't good enough for foreign markets.

• javadewd said on Jun 04, 2009....

  Will they look like this? Because that's good enough for Americans, because Barack Obama says so, therefore it must be true. No more Cadillacs, no more Malibus, no more Magnums... Shit... What will Afro-American's drive now?? Obummer mobiles! It don't even use freon, it's got 14k Watts of bass instead to circulate and compress there air... Nine inches from your head! Word to your muther, fucker!! And if you ain't drivin' an Obummer mobile, then guess what? You're a fucking racist with a white sheet over your head that beats your wife God damn you!!
  

• kevinunknown said on Jun 04, 2009....

  Javadewd—I understand that you are a anti-Obama capitalist and you are entitled to that opinion but that doesn’t give you the right to insult other people for being socialist’s it’s just a different political ideology. Just because i am a socialist doesn’t mean that i am pro abortion or same sex marriage, i am strongly against both!

  I don’t know enough about the automotive industry to argue about it with you. however your point about Israel was utter rubbish am not going to go into it all because it would take to long but i think i might have a essay on it somewhere, ether way you’d probably just disagree with me anyway so there’s not much point now is there?  

• javadewd said on Jun 04, 2009....

  Kevin, if you're truly a socialist, then you will be told how to think about abortion and same sex marriage. I won't bother to tell you to shut up, because you're government will do that for you. That's why I'm having a hard time even pinning you down as such. You seem to have too much free though to be a socialist or be a member of a socialist society... But if you say you are, I guess I'll go ahead and agree with you...
  
  Which point about Israel? Hey if you got an essay, I'll do you the courtesy of reading it. Fire me off a link if you find it, here or via message. I have yet to seriously insult anybody, including you! Shows how much you actually read of my stuff!
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 04, 2009....

  To be fair Java socialism doesn't by definition mean the government will tell you shit.  Americans love their big cars and will keep them as long as the market bears them.  The thing about Obama's emission standards is we should have had them years ago and Bush said no.  I'm not really sure what the rationale was behind him refusing for eight years other than he knew what the end effect of state rights is when the state in question is a giant.

• D6fer said on Jun 04, 2009....

  sucks being on a different schedule than most people here....
  
  zykore....get over it.....everyone goes through the name calling 'fuck with the new guy" stage....grow some balls already......sean, curmugeon, and myself have seen so many "intellectuals" like yourself come and go around here.....I would be surprised if you made it another month.......this topic has been hashed over so many times here it nearly makes me urpy to see one of my posts turn into this.....you are not educating anyone.....well....maybe kevinunknown.
  
  sean.....you should be a ventriliquist......you talk well out of both sides of your mouth......maybe you could do it without moving your lips!.....how can you claim to be so pro-capitalism and then support the Obama plan.......this is not capitalism as we know it here in the U.S........I don't care about definitions and all that other bullshit.....keep the subject in context to the past.....this is 180 degrees from what we've ever done.
  
  Kevin.....are you a high school or college student?
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 04, 2009....

  It is not a contrast to what has happened. The companies are SELLING and Obama is BUYING. He didn't run in with guns and shit and take over, the individuals in charge surrendered.

• zykore said on Jun 05, 2009....

  D6fer, i've been on the site for over a year. i couldnt care less if you make fun of my name or not, it just proves your of a level of intellect that needs to resort to childish pathetic snipes in order to destract from the fact you can't debate things as an adult. don't worry, i'm really done with discussing this sort of thing with idiots and children.

• GrapeKoolaid said on Jun 05, 2009....

  Here is the socialism that you're so scared of.  A whole 0.21%

• I_have_an_opinion said on Jun 05, 2009....

  Housing is on an uptick and unemployments rates dipped slightly recession is nearing an end....what good ol days are you talking about....

• javadewd said on Jun 05, 2009....

  D6 - I was going to say Kev was a college student, because if he's Brit with an opinion, he must be studying a broad... Blonde, brunette, redhead... or abroad!
  
  GK -- If you follow to the second pie chart, please note the two smaller spikes around 1919 and the one that got exponentially larger over the 1940's. We are all bitching about the next one which will be nearly EIGHT times as large as the last one thanks to the $4T tab we all just got stuck with.
  
  Kev -- Lookie!
  
  Zyke -- No more input from commie pinko faggits! Socialism (which my God I wish I had stock in this fucking site) or more to the point Egalitarianism (which I think we should be using this word more often because you putzes can't seem to spell it, much define it) has brought forth such twisted government philosophies as Socialism, Communism, Left-Libertarianism, and Progressivism among others.
  
  
  "Karl Marx posited that socialism would be achieved via class struggle and a proletarian revolution, and would be a transitional stage between capitalism and communism (a state involving the disappearance of class and therefore the state)."
  
  
  Now as a natural born American citizen that has loved his country and has always been proud of this country, I believe that we are a Republic for a reason. We have local and city laws, state laws and federal laws for a reason. We have three branches of government for a reason. We have a bullet-proof Constitution for a reason.
  
  And fuck all y'all for thinking that government should have any more than a limited role in the lives of citizens and the operation of our society. I especially can't stand you fuckers who don't even live in the great US of A trying to tell us how to run our fucking country. You're all just a bunch of fucking Communist tools!
  

• javadewd said on Jun 05, 2009....

  Also, The Atlantic is a left-leaning newspaper. The Left Coaster uses it almost exclusively. Find me a center or right one that has your little flick of pie and I'll be more than happy to comment about it, otherwise it's just happy propaganda.

• curmudgeon said on Jun 05, 2009....

  zykore - elitist? moi? The point is not what models GM was producing abroad, but their ability to run a profitable business. To toss parts of the business that are doing well but then invest in autos that Americans buy only in times of high gas prices does not fill me with confidence about their future success.
  
  If you want to play at insults, I'm happy to oblige. You will not like the outcome. I'd rather not go down this path, so please just stick to the topic and leave the personal stuff out.
  
  Sean - it seems to me that China would build hummers in China because they have yet to field models fit for export. They haven't entered the American market yet, to my knowledge. Buying the hummer would give them a brand name and allow them to enter a niche market here. Unlike Obama, they seem to understand that Americans like big vehicles. Besides, they're still expanding their manufacturing capability and need to create jobs. That's why I doubt that they will build it here. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Even if they decide to build here, it won't "create" new jobs, it will simply keep the few folks working on the hummer line working. That's a wash at best. Hardly a public policy coup.
  
  Seems to me that Bush resisted new CAFE standards because he knew that this would lead to more expensive vehicles, which it will. Folks will just hold on to their older models longer, thus hampering the objective of lowering emissions in the first place. From a pollution standpoint, we need to have fewer vehicles on the road.
  
  Neither party seems to be willing to admit or implement this.
  

• javadewd said on Jun 05, 2009....

  I wish they'd just come out with transporter pads like They Live or Galaxy Quest or even Star Trek... But that would require nuclear power, so liberals and green freaks won't stand for that!
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 05, 2009....

  If we wanted the higher CAFE standards though and understood the risks shouldn't he have left us to it?  Encase you don't know California has been in a lawsuit with the US government for about a decade pushing to raise CAFE standards, not nationally but just for California.  However California is such a huge market that had we gottne our way we would have dragged the rest of you kicking and screaming.

• javadewd said on Jun 05, 2009....

  SR -- You're from the land of fruits, nuts and flakes? Wow... That explains quite a bit.

• andora said on Jun 07, 2009....

  now that this conversation has descended into the pits of puberty it is time for me :)
  
  I have contemplated this issue since the Carter days and came to a conclusion that seems to be as relevant today as it was 40 yrs ago!
  
  Capitalism, Communism and Socialism should be welded into a working model that offers opportunities to all
  
  what will we do with all the Baby Boomers that lost their 401k's, lost their pensions etc.?
  
  we need to create a communal living design that is different than the "old folks homes" that we wharehouse our elderly in - or should we just kick them aside and treat them like they don't matter? One solution would be communal gardens that gives those who are debilitated a peaceful place to feel productive - while increasing their health and becoming better equipped to be self-supportive, or at least a contributor.
  
  we will have to do something if we wish to feel good about our society - so communal gardens for down and out old folks is Communism
  
  Next, we need to embrace socialism when Capitalism renders 95% of the population as a "non-owning" class
  
  unhindered Capitalism creates disparity....this has been proven....look out your window. Rather than criminalize those who do not have the means to compete, we need to offer them basic needs, such as housing, food, medical, transport etc....Taking care of the least of us does not keep those who are equipped for Capitalism from succeeding, it just makes it possible for them to enjoy their success if they are not having to invest every penny into security systems that keep them safe from the rat-like humans that have devolved out of this lopsided and unfair system! Walking over the homeless on your way to the gated community is not success.
  
  These three concepts can work hand in hand to attend to the most aggregious problems we face today
  
  
  but nooo, many want to find a fucking villain as a way of making a point
  
  
  unadulterated Socialism seems flat and uninteresting....
  
  unadulterated Communism seems fascist
  
  and
  
  unadulterated Capitalism is whorish
  
  let's blend these concepts to create balance and stop with all the "we're the best" posturing -- its really impotent and insecure
  
  
  Obama will be a 2 term president -
  
  those who wish to call him a Socialist are simply refusing to acknowledge the facts on the ground
  
  Cheney gave Paulson a check for 840 billion dollars and provided NO OVERSIGHT. none, nada. He helped Paulson to give taxpayer cash so that these world banking cartels could open a new account and give thier cash a new bank name and open the doors with BUSINESS AS USUAL - theft, theft of pensions, 401k's etc...now the wage earner should be happy with $12 per hour and no medical benefits. That's not Socialism, that's Crime!
  
  Barrack Obama is a schill for the illuminati, and he has a little bit more of a conscience than the last schill, Cheney the babysitter! he will clean up our image with great words while carrying on the same policies of the king maker Kissinger!
  
  fuck and double fuck
  
  who you gonna call?
  
  Ghost Busters?
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 07, 2009....

  Andora at least has some decent ideas there.  Besides we've already adopted the model she suggests.  It's merely a question now of adjusting the mix. 

  Personally I think if you can no longer EARN a living and nobody cares enough to personally support you it's time for you to die.  If however we are going to reject this model then Elderly Gardens (that can double as daycare once we add in a few normal age people to over see the entire thing) is a great idea.  Its like like making guys who are in jail for life make something.  I'd rather just line them up and shoot them but if I can't do that then sure let them make something.

  Capitalism is not unfair or imbalanced in the least.  The only part of it that can be considered as such seems to exist equally beneath the other systems and that's the ability to pass what was yours onto your kids.  I'm starting to come to the conclusion that we should treat gifts within family the same as gifts outside of family (taxable income), monitor financial deals between family members the same way we would anything else and when you die anything you hadn't passed on by legal means becomes the property of the state (to sell back to the people).  You shouldn't be born lucky.

• curmudgeon said on Jun 07, 2009....

  A 100% inheritance tax would simply serve as a disincentive for savings. Rather than put away for a child's future, the parent could simply save nothing, spend on whatever he or she wants, run up a huge load of debt and die. Having left nothing, creditors would have nothing to collect.
  
  Gee - government policy that allows me to screw both government AND creditors! Sounds like a grand reason for me to party like its 1999 when I'm in my seventies!
  

• D6fer said on Jun 07, 2009....

  holy shit!.....what a bunch of bullshit.....capitalism as we have come to know it has worked well up until the time that socialism was introduced back in the 30's....Social Security has been a pain in our collective asses since it's inception!.....Capitalism works fine....yes we need regulation.....more so we need laws that actually are enforced!.....but look at the drain on the economy by the non-producers of the nation......should we kick our elderly to the curb?...no!....could have we chosen a better system? Hell yes!
  
  Sorry Andora....but I think you are wrong......I don't think Obama even thinks he'll get another term. 

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 07, 2009....

  I disagree Curm.  Unless we had a massive descrease in average life span or a massive increase in average age for giving birth your argument doesn't make sense. I'm in my mid twenties and I just lost my Grandparents.  My parents have already made their way.  They are in their late fifteies and should last another twenty years by the time they die I'll have made my way.  Them saving up for my future is almost silly.  (Not to mention if we look at the average I'll be caring for them in their old age.  The only people who really pass anything on to their children are the Donald Trumps of the world and the occasional young death.  The only thing you are even kinda making sense on is the idea that we should regulate credit for the elderly but as I understand it you don't HAVE to accept an inheritance so you can already avoid debt.  But correct me if I'm wrong.

  D6:  Socialism was introduced into the 30s because Capitalism was failing and EVERY 15 years like clockwork at that.  It wasn't even just failing you could set your watch to it.

  Also as things are currently heading you're dreaming if you really think Obama isn't getting a second term.  Of course you were part of that crowd who thought Obama was going to lose in a land slide and it was only the "politically correct" who were polling his way but once people got behind closed doors they'd be racist again.  Obama has got to fuck up BADLY to lose his second term.  US presidents don't actually get elected to four year terms.  They get elected to eight year terms with a four year vote of confidence.  It is rare that you don't get the second four.  History is not your friend here.

• D6fer said on Jun 08, 2009....

  he he he....wait and see my friend!.....I hope I'm wrong, but the economy is going to get a lot worse.....and it's not going to come out of it before the next election......high unemployment....record inflation (how can it not).....unless the Republicans put up a total tool for a candidate.....I don't see how he can win.....the only landslide you will see in the next 2 to 3 years will be Obama's approval rating.

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 08, 2009....

  Just curious but you are basing this on something aside from the same gut feeling that had Obama losing the election right?  I would really like to see what trends you are observing to show that the economy will worsen because every analyst out there expects us to be in full recovery by either late this year or early next year.

  The stocks have been recovering for three months.  And employment which is a lagging indicator anyway is showing signs of trend change.  The reason btw that it is a lagging indicator is because you don't fire your employees the first day you fail to make sales, you fire them after a few months of being behind and on the far end you don't hire employees the first day you put in an honest days work.  You hire them after a sustained period of too much work to handle so the economy has to come back before employment rates will rise significantly.

  Housing prices are creeping back up as well.  So what are you seeing?  At this point I'm just genuinely curious.

• javadewd said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Yes, SR, but houses are taking much, much, much longer to sell at the artificial prices that they are raising them... Speaking as someone who has started looking in six totally unrelated markets for themselves.

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Those are all artificial numbers, SR
  fuzzy math I think they call it.
  
  
  
  

• javadewd said on Jun 09, 2009....

  BTW, SR, unemployment overall in the US is now at 9.4% and rising... Which is why the BOA was spanking yesterday in front of the cameras saying that everything was fine and that they were going to put 600,000 ACORN voters (people who really don't exist, I mean) to work this summer. 

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Every ones buying houses right now because they cost $1000.00.
  The banks are not getting what the mortgage pay off was, just whatever they can get.
  Banks do not want property.  They want money.
  The housing market is going up because, how the hell are you going to pass up such a great deal?
  fuzzy, fuzzy...
  
  Act like I'm stupid.  Fine.  But by all means, let this be the one thing you listen to. 
  Hit the sheriff sales and buy like you have gone insane!
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Unemployment is going to confinue to rise for a while.  That's how it works.  Of course the houses are selling faster because of the low points.  I'm not sure if they are really artificually low so much as they WERE artificially high.  I mean one thing I thought every Republican was was an expert on supply and demand and how increased demand increases prices.  So kiddies can you tell me what happened to prices when the demand was increased by giving loans to millions of people who couldn't afford them?  And how unlimited demand with limited supply may have caused an imbalance? 

   

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 09, 2009....

  SR  - BOTH, all artificial.  Low points alone my ass.  Housing prices were artificially high.  Lenders fuzzied the numbers to make the loans go through.  I watched it everyday.
  There is never an unlimited supply of builders. 
  I can't speak for anywhere else, but here, no one wanted anything besides a new house, (not much price variation). 
  The "used" houses here are all rentals.
  The lenders and the government (SEC) allowed it to happen, not to mention fannie and freddie. 
  It was bound to happen.
  

• javadewd said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Sean, I used to have a client that was a mortgage company. One day I overheard a conversation with a prospect. It went like this :
  
  
  Agent : So how much do you and your wife make? Hmm... That's not enough. Do you have any kids living with you? Do they work? Really? How much do they make? Oh, that should be enough then...
  
  
  Now, I dare say that this agent nor his company would be considered Republican, conservative or even capitalist. I believe CRIMINAL would be closer to the truth. From there, who knows where their politics sat. This company bit the dust soon after the housing bubble burst, but I hear that they are back in business. When they stiffed me after they died the first time, I refused to work with them again. If you want to point a finger at people who caused this shit, there you go...
  
  There was no "unlimited" or "limited" anything. Before the bubble, the artificial demand (people who couldn't afford to buy) and the obnoxious amount of supply caused housing prices to be unreasonably high, but since people actually thought that by some miracle that they could afford them, they stayed that way (hence "bubble"), but now with lack of demand (what DTI is talking about is people buying foreclosures and that's only for people who are walking around with cash to buy) and now the even more obnoxious amount of supply, real estate agents are trying to hold the market price of their houses to no avail. Many of the houses that I got to look over have been on the market for over six months to a year, which isn't a good thing. So maybe you should go get your real estate license so you can sell me a house in your fantasy land. God knows I'd love to get a good deal!
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 09, 2009....

  You just parroted back what I said with more precise terms.  We are in agreement here for the most part.  I know it's hard to believe dewd.  But you're right.

• javadewd said on Jun 09, 2009....

  It's nice to hit the mark, perhaps you should target practice, Sean...

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Now I'm all fuzzy inside.  aww.
  
  Those companies do that.  mortgage companies - not ACTUAL banks.  They shop around for a bank that will loan you the money with fake numbers, and the banks knew this.  They do it for large fees that they hardly ever tell anyone about.  Most of those people don't look, or are told not too.  This is not new.  It is seasonal.  as soon as the slump comes, they go out of business and then re-open (the same people) under a new name.  You don't see this stuff unless you're in the middle of it.
  They wanted the fast cash, no morals, even among the moraled.  is that a word? 
   
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 09, 2009....

  But we can go make it illegal.  Again.  Stupid Clintion.  Also stupid Bush.

• D6fer said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Sean....I am basing my prediction on history.....Obama is going to deliver us into a Carter-like economy.....and a Carter-like security......I don't see how the economy can recover like they are saying......they just dumped trillions of monopoly money into our economy....you don't think that will have a damaging effect?......It boggles my mind that anyone ANYONE.....is buying this bullshit!.....what am I missing?.....it would break every economic rule to recover.....you can't spend your way out of debt can you?
  

• javadewd said on Jun 09, 2009....

  There's enough stupidity to go around, I guess... And it's true that you can't spend your way out of debt unless you're fucking somebody over.

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 09, 2009....

  No, you can't.  But you can buy power.
  that's the scary part...
  
  even with fake money...
  who is to stop them except people who are actually paying attention?
  Like us.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 09, 2009....

  1.  Half of what happened during the Carter admin wasn't really his fault.  The other half was entirely his fault however.  That said had we listened to him 30 years ago and made major moves to get away from oil we wouldn't be having half the problems we are having right now.  Not cars, obviously that technology wasn't/isn't here yet.  But we could have popped up nuclear power plants all over the fucking place and shut down the coal and oil power plants here.  We could also have invested more heavily in solar power to get it running sooner.  Specially in some parts of the country.  I recognize that solar power would be less than ideal in Seattle where the sun is a myth that parents tell their children.

  2.  The money he dumped into our economy is getting it moving again.  (also we know historically that failure to act was at least a major part of why the Great Depression got as bad as it did.) 

  It will cause inflation.  That is a fact of life, the question is if the Obama administration can keep it from causing wild inflation.  You have a legit fear here but we have to try something because the price of inaction is death here.  We tried letting it shake down and we got the GD.  Seems like a plan that is basically "Anything but what they did!" is appropriate.

  3.  You're final point however is curious.  It depends on how you look at the situation if you can "spend your way out of debt".   For a government so long as the money is going to the populace you most certainly can.  Wait a second, I see your eyes rolling.  Just work with me here.

  A government makes its money via taxing its citizens.  Having the citizens have an income in the first place to tax is a vital part of this system (also a badly flawed part of it.  AS we are seeing now when the economy goes to shit the government doesn't have money to work with.  If they were competing in the business world, note: NOT OWNING WHOLE INDUSTRIES.  Every single example I've seen of government in an industry it was Russia's Car Czar, not US cars, with Ford, GM, Chrystler, Toyota etc etc etc as legit competition.)  We want the citizens making and spending money.  So investing in the citizens is basically the government investing in its business because we are our business.

  I don't see it as significantly different from being in debt, and buying a car (going farther into debt) so you can get a higher paying job to get out of debt.  I would say that millions of college graduates would make a similar claim of you can spend your way out of debt because for the non-rich that is basically what college is.

  Or I think the phrase is you gotta have money to make money.

• javadewd said on Jun 09, 2009....

  1. You weren't going to go nuclear during the cold war... Logistically and globally we would have ended up in a shit fight or we'd be glowing and/or glass by now. That argument shows just how little you understand foreign policy during the 70's and 80's. Perhaps you should apply for a cabinet position for the BOA.
  
  2. The money that they are printing is unfreezing credit markets, but not to the degree it should have and if it would have been left alone, it would have reset anyway. They didn't FAIL to act in the 30's, they ACTED and that screwed us over. Had they let it be, it would have taken half the time and none of the federal money. It seems like you're re-writing history here, so again, I'm thinking a historian post with the BOA.
  
  3. That's like a pimp paying a John to fuck his whore. It makes no sense. We've got so many fucking czars that we might as well be Russia. What are we up to? 17 now? You do have to have money to make money, but you have to start from zero with ideas and services that can make that first buck. That's where the BOA is lacking. We can't make something out of nothing... Perhaps you can get a post with the BOA as an alchemist or something and prove me wrong!
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 09, 2009....

  1.  Yeah right.  That's why France did it and they were a staunch allie of ours and geographically closer to Russia and thus more of a risk.  Not to mention Russia had excellent inteligence in our country and would have known we were building power plants not bombs (just like we knew what they were building and left their shit alone)  Unless you're trying to claim that had we built power plants we wouldn't have been able to build enough bombs to stay competitive. . .you do know we were outproducing them, the entire time right?

  2. The government didn't act on the banks in the 30's.  AT all.  They let them fail and wipe out peoples savings.  Which directly lead to the creation of the FDIC to prevent that from ever happening again.

  You're claiming that the New Deal prolonged the Depression.  Which is bullshit.  It have provable and immediate effects on unemployment.  (Not to mention we are still reaping the benefits of projects funded under it)  You're next claim is that the rest of the world came out of it before us and it took WW2 to bring us out of it.  Well it took WW2 to bring them out of it.  It just so happens that WW2 happened to everybody else way before us.

  3.  Unless your claiming that people with zero income pay taxes. . .

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 09, 2009....

  sr - prove to me 2 is correct.  I will look also.  I believe you are wrong. 
  
  3. People with income pay no taxes, it's called the E.I.C. or now E.I.T.C.
    Irrelevant.  Don't get me started on that, please...
  
  
    
  
  

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 09, 2009....

  Here's wiki.
  The first new deal of 33.
  Read it but basically, it is current news with different numbers.  i.e. 25% unemployment rate 
  
  From the 30's.
  
  "The "First New Deal" of 1933 was aimed at meeting the needs of practically all major groups, from banking and railroads to industry and farming. The New Deal innovated with banking reform laws, work relief programs, agricultural programs, and industrial reform (the National Recovery Administration, NRA), and the end of the gold standard.[3]"
  
  Every president inherits crap as he leaves crap.  I'm blaming no president, except this one, since he is the current one fucking it up. 
  
  Now that I have seen "gold standard" and thought of the EIC, I think I am going to go...you know...
  :-o
  

• javadewd said on Jun 13, 2009....

  And sadly, had McCain inherited it and did this same stupid shit, I'd undoubtedly hate his stupid ass, too.
  
  1. Nobody was going to fight France doing anything. If we even thought they were doing anything militarily, we simply would have rolled down the main drag. Have you not seen the French salute? {Holding up both arms, palms forward.}
  
  2. A very interesting article here, but I like this one better.
  
  3. In Socialist countries like the former USSR, if you ran a business a chunk of your earnings went to a government regulator (or a "government regulations board") which would be the social equivalent (not to be confused with a Socialist equivalent) of paying a wedding planner. You simply couldn't do business without this bureaucrat getting his piece. If the USA moves to this type of Socialistic method, expect many mid-sized and small businesses to go tits up. Since they are the ones pushing the economy up right now that will really hurt any sort of recovery efforts.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 13, 2009....

  1.  You know what, whatever.  I think you're dead wrong that we couldn't have gone nuclear in the 70s but who cares.  Cold War has been over for how long?  If we'd started building plants in say the 90s under Clinton or the 2000's under Bush do you think this problem would be as bad as it is today?  Do you think we would have had nation wide black outs during 03 and 04 and brownouts throughout other states in 06 and 07?  Even if we accept your logic that two countries that were building nukes every day around the clock until they had enough to destroy the world three times over couldn't have build Power Plants without provoking an attack which. . .are you serious?  I can't believe I let you drag me into the idea that Russia new we were building intercontinental missiles and never launched a nuke at us, but if we had started buildint more power plants that would have been the straw that broke the camels back!  I mean it's okay if your trying to kill me but keeping the lights on?  No buddy, we're gonna have to put a stop to that!  I apologize for being stupid enough to accept your argument and not just call you stupid for suggesting that.

  2.  What was unemployment before FDR and what was it after?  The rest of the article negates to mention that while still have booms and busts we don't have a world wide depression every fifteen years anymore because of the measures we've put into place.

  3.  One who gives a shit how things ran in the USSR aside from making points about signs we should look for.  More to the point that wasnt' what we were discussing.  We were discussing if getting people working again provides a tax revenue.

• javadewd said on Jun 13, 2009....

  1. Environmentalists
  2. Still digging for ya. Sorry your Google broke.
  3. I'm saying no, all it does is lines govt's pocket!
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 14, 2009....

  1.  Enviromentalists are at least standardly thought to be part of the left.  Clinton had a Republican Congress from 94 forward if I'm not mistaken and Bush had a Republican Congress until 06.  Why didn't EITHER man push forward that goal, particularly Bush as the great outages took place on his watch?

  2.  Oh, you really gonna be like that and make me find references for things that 8th graders know?  Fine its not a problem.  Unemployment peaked at 25% in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression#cite_ref-66.  Three years of the New Deal and one year of the Second New Deal and unemployment was down to twelve percent.  Half of what it had been when he FDR took over.

  Clearly the New Deal had an effect and clearly it seems to be positive.  One thing that "Free Market Capitalists" fail to acknowledge is the simple inalienable truth that I'm about to utter.  Capitalism is the only way a nation, people or world will function.  There is no alternative that functions for very long because Capitalism is the way.  Not the unfettered beast you seem to wish upon the world (though unfettered that beast is still superior to most other creatures) but bred, tamed and trained to serve our will.  Just like domestic horses are SUPERIOR to wild horses in nearly every way a well and properly regulated market is superior to lassiez faire capitalism.  There are things that cannot be allowed to happen.  Monopolies, usary, lies (I count the repackaged loans that we still cannot cess out to be basically lies.  If when you buy item A [or more specifically accept debt A] you should be able to track it back to the loaner(s) with mininal difficulty.  It shouldn't be impossible.  You also should not be able to double own something which it is seeming many of these banks accomplished by owning Stock A that contained Assets A through J, then owning Stock J, which contained Stock A AND Stocks F-M).  Anyway. .  .my point is that you should know what you own and the first step in that is that a seller should be required, by law, to be honest with what he's selling.

  A bank should garuntee that the money I store there will be there when I want it.  All of it.  I shouldn't have to question and if I do have to question they'd best be like stocks where the return is significant. 

  I'd like to add that if the term Too Big to Fail can be applied to your business you should immediately be broken into  ten equal companies.  This accusation goes to businesses AND guilds/unions.  If you have the power single handedly to stop the world from spinning it MUST be taken away.  According to legend the UAW controls one out of ever ten jobs in the US directly or indirectly.  More research is needed (and I leave it others to bother cus I don't care on this point) to prove if the jobs they are counting are only direct jobs.  By direct I mean factories, parts manufacture, glass, and other stuff required to make the vehichles.  I don't believe this number counts for example Highway Patrol, Bus Drivers, Mailmen, everybody who drives to work farther than they could logically drive. . .They have too much power, they have a monopoly.

  3.  All taxes line the governments pockets.  That's the bloody point.   

• javadewd said on Jun 14, 2009....

  1. The same reason we don't drill domestically instead of importing foreign oil.
  2. Yes, but just as Q1 2009, the only sector that grew was... Government!
  
  Quit using inalienable truth unless your just being subjective. Truth is not transferrable or surrenderable, which make it not inalienable... So stop using alien words, unless you're ALIENated... And why would I want this sort of watered-down capitalism you're prescribing? I'm a small business, you idiot! At this point I don't care if my inventory falls off the back of a truck in Chicago, as long as I'm turning a profit and feeding my family... Fuck the economy! If it does it good, well milk.
  
  3. And you make it oh so well... That's why it's so dragging on to the point of droning.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 14, 2009....

  1.  So basically because everybody is fucking stupid?  Every last one of them?

  2.  I'm a small business to.  And I'm already seeing the trickle down of "government" growth.  It's moms going back to work and putting kids in day care, which is causing daycares to hire again.  It's guys getting back into the dead Real Estate market.  It's new construction projects on schools.  We are already seeing a slowing in job losses, a return in confidence in the market, the stock market is on a nearly four month surge.  What Bush/Obama did/doing is working.

  3.  Taxes aren't the end of the world.  Nor are progressive taxes.  Sorry to tell you but 1% of one million dollars is more than 50% of one hundred thousand is more than 75% of fifty K.  You still make more and still have an incentive to work.  The problem with soaking the rich is something else entirely.

  The vast majority of the super rich don't actually "make" money.  They possess mountains of faith and imaginare assets but create terribly little true wealth.  one hundred milliond dollar instock on a normal year becomes one hundred and twelve million if I recall properly.  So it looks like Mr JJ Abrams made twelve million.  Thing is he might also wake up a few weeks later with only 60 million.  If your budget (like for example Californias or the US's) is built on the idea that JJ was going to give you six million dollars last year of his profits and suddenly he lost money and thus doesn't pay because he shows negative income for the year. . .well suddenly your budget is fucked.  Specially when that happens to you know, the entire tax base, all at the same time.

  That is the risk of placing the tax burden too heavily on the rich and that is why it should be minimized in whatever ways we can. 

• javadewd said on Jun 14, 2009....

  1. Hey, if that's where you want to go with it... Run...
  2. Where the fuck is this? You've gotta be talking about California - the home of the fruits, nuts and flakes - only there in tool-topia could a pin-prick of a recovery be felt right now...
  3. Entitlements are the end of capitalism and free markets, but that's nothing compared to double or triple taxation or simply taxation without representation, which started the very revolutionary war of 1776. Your assessment of California's tax system is probably dead-on (I'm not a resident), yet most of the rich packed their shit and left back before the first of this year. Many are now claiming residency overseas now because they no longer want their money tied to the US.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 14, 2009....

  1.  That's fair enough.  All I can say is Bush had a packed congress for six years and didn't push through nuclear power.  I readily admit Gore is an idiot, but Bush had pretty much uncontested power for six years.  Two of those years saw black outs in major cities.  He could probably have pushed through installing hamster wheels in kindergartens right then and didn't.  So there is no logical way you can pin this entirely on basically Clinton the only Democrat President in the last what thirty years almost (not counting Mr I've been in office five months.  We got 8 of Reagan 4 of Bush one, 8 of Clinton and 8 of Bush 2.  I apologize.  28 years.  I gotta remember

  2.  I'm sure California is not the only place that is feeling.  I should add that my industry is sort of a market indicator for lack of a better term.  I am by virtue of my bussiness going to be near the forefront of the recovery.  Which I guess means I should explain what I do briefly.  (If you don't believe me you can google Acclaim Fingerprinting and call me)  Anyway I fingerprint people.  In California this is required for a many jobs.  Real Estate, Notary, Nurse, Child Care, Pest Control, Escrow and security guard just to name a few off the top of my head.  As more people are hired my business increases not as part of the eventual trickle down of people spending money, but as part of the initial process of getting hired (kinda like drug testing) 

  I am already seeing the first stages of it here.  Real Estate is seeing an uptick, so is car sales (which boogles me, but the dealerships must know something I don't because they are certainly hiring again)  Child Care is increasing as well.

  3.  triple digit taxation is called slavery.  It's not taxation at that point. 

  Honestly while protectionism should be minimized anybody who wants their money so badly that they are willing to "move" to a third world nation to avoid our taxes should not be allowed to do business in the states.  Period.

  I feel extra strongly about that when they dont' actually move.  Owning a PO Box so you can funnel your money through there while still getting the full benefit of living and doing business in the richest nation on earth is criminal.  And you know that what they do.  They don't move overseas, nore do they stop doing business with their valued customers.  They simply by a mailbox on an island shithole that's just glad to leach .1% of a billion dollars cus that's more than their GDP.

  Of course that is why I support cutting back on income tax till the point of it being nearly zero across the board and instead replacing it with increased and progressive luxury tax.  It still hits the rich more than the rest of us, it is basically unavoidable (particularly on electronics as so much shit is regionalized that you'd have to put an INSANE tax on say a DVD player to make people import.  Cus the DVD's won't work so once you've imported that. . .Anyway it would have the additional benefit of forcing illegal immigrants and other workers who work under the table.  Or in currently illegal industries (drugs, prostitution pick whatever else you want that involves cash transfers that isn't government sanctioned) now are adding significantly to the system.

  I do truly believe that the biggest problem with the current tax system is it is FAR too dependent on the rich.  It's not just California that has a progressive tax.  Our problem is probably compounded but the US has a progressive tax system and it is undeniable that MOST of the mega wealthy don't so much make money (and I don't begrudge them I'm pointing to a fact.  They deal in stocks which while history has shown that they ALWAYS increase in the long run, this last year they dropped by what 50% at the peak?  By tax time I think they were down 37% or something from the peak.  I don't know what they were at exactly at the begining of the tax year last year (which is important) because if they are down year over year then you know the entire tax base lost money and the way the current system works, something like 50% of taxes are paid by the top 1% of the people in this country.  Which means when they sneeze. . .we all die of AIDS.  There isn't even a trickle down they notice a sizable but annoying bump and the rest of us scramble for our fucking lives.

  It's stupid.  I don't mind those who can shouldering more of the weight.  They can handle it.  But when all is said and done WE have to be able to handle it without them.  And the current system makes it where we can't.

  Still think a 99% inheritence tax would be nice though.

• D6fer said on Jun 16, 2009....

  I was watching the news the other night and they said that something like 40 billion was all that had been used of the original 700+ billion stimulus......do you really think we have seen the worst yet Sean?......i don't.....go ahead.....print up the rest of the trillions of dollars.....watch what happens......don't be stupid.....B.O. is trying to tank capitalism.......he's a socialist if not Marxist and anyone who can't see that is a tool!

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 16, 2009....

  Great.  The Raw Deal involves building a tunnel for turtles among other such crap.  But I guess that creates a job since someone has to stand there and make sure that the turtle goes the right way...
  
  Yes i can is more worried about turtles than people.  His people anyway, you know, the Americans.
  
  4 years. 
  
  His supporters are starting to get mad. 
  FINALLY.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 17, 2009....

  Yes we've probably seen the worst of it.  Based on all of the signs D6 we've seen the worst of this crisis.  BO will creat his own problems with the solution he took there is no doubt about that.  He had two options though, relive the Carter Admin or Relive the Great Depression.  The Carter years were the "liberal" answer to a deflated economy (coupled with Iran and other countries just being idiots) and the Great Depression the Republican answer.  If you think the GD was better than than Carter Era by all means keep tearing down his plans.

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 17, 2009....

  We have seen nothing yet...it will get worse. 
   
  
  

• javadewd said on Jun 17, 2009....

  Out in the land of the fruits, nuts and flakes, it may appear as though they have seen the worst of it, but much like the weather out here in middle America, give it five minutes, it'll change...

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 17, 2009....

  Exactly!

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 17, 2009....

  Don't you get it yet?  You live because of me.  When the storm ends for me it's over for you.  It might take you a few months to realize it because of how the system works (just like how the stock market fell BEFORE unemployment surved and the stock market has been rallying for three months but the unemployment numbers haven't dropped yet.  It takes a while for everybody to get the message Which is the subject of my next blog) but you live because of me.  If you're not a Californian, New Yorker or Texan you're probably in a leech state.  You do realize that the three states I've mentioned are top WORLD economies.  That fancy military keeping you safe.  I PAY FOR IT.  Those neato-keen highways that let business get to you.  Bloc pays for it.

  There is no doubt we are going to experience some inflation by the by.  I have my doubts that Obama and his administration are inteligent enough to prevent it from happening all together.  They could, make no doubt, they could.  It's a simple matter of removing money from the system once it's accomplished said goal of getting the machine running again but it's a delicate process.  We will have inflation I don't deny that.  It just won't be the end of the world.

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 18, 2009....

  I never said it was the end of the world sean. And did I ever mention arrogance in this blog? Yeah, cali is such a ABSOLUTELY SHINING example of what not to do. Look around, but open ur eyes this time first. I bet my state is doing better than yours. But ours isn't BAWLING for handouts either. WAH!

• javadewd said on Jun 18, 2009....

  We grow your food, you arrogant tool! If anybody's existence is dependent on anybody's it's you coastal fucks are dependent on the midwest, unless somehow you are subsisting off of tofu and Styrofoam!!
  
  I propose we knock NYC and LA into the fucking ocean and see how fast our problems are resolved you fascists pricks! More than 3/4 of this shit you all caused!!!
  

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 18, 2009....

  I 2nd that!

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 18, 2009....

  Tool!

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 18, 2009....

  D.C too, (while we're at it.)
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 18, 2009....

  You grow my food?  Since when?  Do you live in crazy fantasy land where California doesn't export all kinds of food stuffs? 

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 18, 2009....

  Nuts?  lol  ;-)

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 18, 2009....

  Why do you always change the topic?  *giggles*
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 18, 2009....

  ::Looks up three posts from previous comment::  I changed the subject?  Hmm.  You're dangerously close to ending up on the list of people that instead of a response I just tell you you're stupid.

• doortoinsanity said on Jun 18, 2009....

  I was playing sorry sean.  You can't tell the difference by now?  I wanted to make you smile for a second.  just a second.  You are way too sensitive...
  
  

• javadewd said on Jun 21, 2009....

  Whining, pollution and films doesn't count as a tangible exports, Sean!

• andora said on Jun 23, 2009....

  how did this conversation about Obama get into toolsville?
  
  I watched the press conference with our President today and was so impressed
  
  gawd i love an intelligent and articulate man with a smile that lights up a room
  
  gawd i love a man who knows what he is talking about and refuses to descend into the sound bite bullshit that keeps from delivering real answers and instead fuels the fire of divide and conquer
  
  he is brilliant
  
  and yes, i have my concerns about the world cartels having undue influence upon him, yet, what i see in his stated policies is great balance. and intuitive understanding of both sides that enables him to make a heartfelt decision for all and both sides of the divide. for too long the media has been fanning the flames of partisanship bc our administrations stooped to that kind of approach. This guy is a breath of fresh air and those who are trying to pull him down into the trenches got schooled today in the most delicate and sensitive manner.
  
  and for all yous guys that want to insist that calling someone a tool, I want you to know from my point of view tools are essential and I love a good solid axe, I love a well made tool = so have at it with the compliments
  
  
  and btw, schwarzenegger loves the Obaminator and was cringing everytime george tried to get on stage with him. so partisan politics is being put in its place by well meaning and sincere politicians. one more prayer getting answered.
  
  i can tell u all love our country and want what's best, but really, demonizing others as a way of seeming "right" is so outmoded that u guys need to catch up with real time
  
  two term president with the whole world wishing he would lead them next. He is so well loved around the world that national leaders are looking irrelevent. yehaw, finally the anti-Christ came to save the day!!!!!!!!!  :]
  

• D6fer said on Jun 23, 2009....

  Aint gonna happen Andora! Unless of course ACORN is given free reign over our voting system.....he'll have to cheat to win....not that he didn't the first time, but I think he covered the margin enough to call it a real win. Only real problem I can see with the next election is the fact that all of you "honest" liberals can vote in the Republican primaries and help select someone the right can't stand.....you know....like John McCain.....who knows.....maybe his daughter?....she couldn't win either......so B.O. would be safe.

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 23, 2009....

  No we can't.  Not unless we register now as Republicans.  Didn't you pay attention at all to Operation Chaos?

• D6fer said on Jun 23, 2009....

  many states don't require registration to vote in the primaries......and yes I did pay attention......too bad it didn't succeed.

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 24, 2009....

  It suceeded.  It's just America was so pissed at George Bush that you could have ran Jesus Christ and they could have ran Satan and the difference would have been instead of a landslide it would be close.

  Enough states like California which honestly counts as much as like five other states don't allow cross party primaries.  In Texas you guys are close to locked.  I'm not sure in New York or Florida and does it really matter what anybody else thinks?

• andora said on Jun 24, 2009....

  honey baby sweetie,
  
  it WILL be a second term
  
  not bc he is a liar or a cheat
  
  bc
  
  the GOP is going down in flames even as i speak
  
  the acorn boondoggle is a sorry excuse of a response and the cheating excuse is definitely sorry after what Bush and Katherine Harris did - makes u sound more foolish than knowledgeable - if u only listen to Limbaugh, if u only believe one side of this divide, then you are partisan, biased and issuing propaganda
  
  to call me an "honest liberal" is your kneejerk sarcastic reaction to the truth
  
  as I have said before I am, and have been a registered Independent for  33 years
  
  it is the Independents that refused the GOP last election that added up with disenfranchised minorities that gave our president a landslide win compared to the 50/50 split we had been stuck in for a generation. Real Americans will see this partisan soundbite bs for what it is -- GOP propaganda has been hiding behind the sleazy cover of personal attacks and slime-ball tactics that keeps our interests from being considered. The GOP has no political plan that addresses anything that is real, they are going down in flames D6
  
  so the soundbites u used above are just empty platitudes that refuses to address the real issues - how does this help anyone, even u?
  
  as an Independent who is a fiscal conservative and a social liberal I resent people who continue to send up smoke screens to cover up the sleaze balls that are getting their pants pulled down to such an extent that they will crawl into the wholes from which they came.
  
  before you accuse me of anything D6 you should know that I would vote for Ron Paul before I would vote for Obama again. I don't need a world leader for a president, even though I appreciate that the world was witness to some real democracy that is capable of disposing a tyrrant. A very good example. but really, I want a president (Like Paul) that is SERIOUS about bringing our military back to our own country to defend our own borders damnit!
  
  fuck this warm and fuzzy popularity contest, I want real answers such as the ones Paul is advocating....not this mincing of partisans that constantly keeps real solutions from manifesting.
  
  so screw your smokescreen mamby pamby accusations bc they are a sorry excuse for a conversation!
  

• andora said on Jun 24, 2009....

  as I watch the news I realize that many of the GOP mercilessly attacked Clinton, when he got impeached for lying about his blow job, are now marching out in front of the camera to do their mia culpa about going against their marriage vows!
  
  those who put up a front of being holier than thou, insisting that they are on the moral high ground bc they are the party of "family values" are simply sorry, sorry hypocrites. It is a sad day for the GOP and I am happy
  
  not bc their political platform is completely wrong, but bc they act as if they are the only god-like people as they demonize those that are not in their ilk....these people will continue to burn up in public just like Sanford today and Spitzer yesterday. remember spitzer moving upon prostitution rings as he was patronizing a prostitution ring. fuck them and the horse they rode in on - slime!
  

• andora said on Jun 24, 2009....

  I don't call them slime bc they are breaking their marriage vows, I call them slime because they use that to attack their opponents in their politics of personal destruction....well nowwww, it is their time to shoot themselves in the foot as they are, and will continue to do.
  
  they are more and more part of the extreme fringe with Limbaugh as their poster child! what a CARTOON of a party, I suggest you jump that ship my friend because they are not loyal to their constituency, i.e. the shark feeding frenzy btwn Palin camp and McCain camp, cute.... and very tellling!
  

• D6fer said on Jun 24, 2009....

  whoa! down girl!.....breath.....count to ten.....hey, well at least you win the 100th commenter award......there should be a prize for that.........anyway....lets look at all of the holes in your rant here.......hmmmmmm.....spitzer was a Republican? I don't think so!......and here is where the big difference is between Republican and Democrats......when a Republican slips and does a no-no, they are removed from power by there own party.....when a Democrat does it, they use stonewall tactics and just wait for it to go away......holy shit, Ted Kennedy leaves a woman to die in the water and he is still in power some 40 years later.....and he's treated like royalty!......he cheated and damn near drank himself to death.....but hey....no biggie right?
  
  Oh.....and Clinton's blow job was happenning on company property during working hours.......not what I was paying him to do.....If I did that, I would be fired.
  
  Disenfranchised Minorities? ....What a fucking joke!.......their guy doesn't win and they are disenfranchised?.......what a misused term!
  
  btw.....I would leave the Republicans in the dust if a viable alternative showed up.......I am not registered as one, and never will most likely.....Political parties are a bad idea in my book.....we would be better off without them......more people would be forced to look closer at the candidates and get informed about the issues.....am I right or am i right? ;)
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 25, 2009....

  While Andora is no independent, regardless of what she might have registered ass she is also clearly insane. 

  However to point out a few mistakes you made, the disenfranchised minorities really never were REpublican supporters anyway just the five of them that were left realized the Right wishes we still had legal slavery and wandered off.  Took em long enough.

  As far as problems go Ted fucked up, huge but he's very respected in the Senate, even by conservatives because he's good at his job regardless of what else he may or may not have done.  (and I assume the worst)

  Republicans do have a problem with protecting their own, but I also have an entire post about it.  You guys want to parade around these stupid morals from the 1700s that probably didn't actually work then and if they did it was because people had limited interaction with each other and they sure as fuck don't work today so of course you get ganked for breaking the rules.  Dems realize the ancient and sacred law of bros before hos and they got each other's back.  Sounds like something you could learn from rather than talk shit about.

• javadewd said on Jun 25, 2009....

  The rumors of my demise were greatly exaggerated, much like SeanRenaud's data. I've been renovating my kitchen. I hope to have pics up soon.
  
  D6 said it before I did : How big was the bailout California just took and what was their deficit thus far? If you do the math, Sean, your beloved state's GDP is about the same as mine and we took less than 10% of the bailout money that yours did!
  
  Hey, speaking of fucking up and politics, I passed on some great data by some arrogant blow-hard from this post to some pro-life friends of mine who got a hold of their southern California chapter. They're suppose to be doing some sort of rally off of Brockton Avenue soon. Supposedly somebody should have made sure that the wives of the guys who are customers and suppliers of some outfit were not pro-life zealots before they spent company time spouting off about how kids ruin people's lives and therefore should be aborted... Welcome to the jungle!
  
  And to add insult to injury, after bragging about how California is leading reforms, my area just announced that their Chrysler plant is closing and several other layoffs just before the 4th of July holiday pushing our states' already 8% unenjoyment well into double digits. Leading the way of change my ass... I sure as fuck wouldn't raise that flag too high!
  
  After asking around to my pagan friends from college about a certain witch, they pretty much said the same thing that my buddy Trav said a while back, that they were the "Pee Wee Herman" of that particular lifestyle. That's pretty pathetic when the folks who should be buying her supposed book that she's writing (who the hell is your publisher and why don't they have a leash on you like this gal?) won't even use it for toilet paper.
  
  Congrats D6 on the 100+ comments! My apologies for not jumping in before the three-part rant... I hope to be better on the ball in the future. Things are crazy lately, and I realize that's hardly an excuse.
  

• andora said on Jun 25, 2009....

  D6fer, I never said Spitzer was a Republican, I used his name out of the oodles of politicians that are getting caught to show that this is a bi-partisan pattern. However, the "family values" gang has been shoving the moral majority agenda down out throats and up our bums for too long not to get some boomerang action out of their slimey K-street crew. they need to be tarred and feathered for that level of hypocrisy!
  
  Also, I meant that the Independent party joined with latino and black minorities (among other disenfranchised populations) came together to give Obama a mandate. If you don't think blacks are disenfranchised then why is their unemployment rate double the national unemployment rate? That is statistical evidence of their disenfranshisement as a race.
  
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 25, 2009....

  I don't respond to liars.

  Andora, the higher unemployment rate amongst blacks has a lot to do with lower levels of educationa nd living in poor neighborhoods.  Which isn't going to change any time soon no matter who's president.

• D6fer said on Jun 25, 2009....

  Andora.....does this mean that you think cheating on ones spouse or significant other is ok?.....or just when Liberals do it?
  
  I don't see how promoting moral decency is a bad thing.
  
  53% of the popular vote is a mandate now andora?
  
  Sean.....the reason Republicans roll over and take their beating for these things are two fold 1st of all it's the right thing to do. 2nd of all they couldn't pull it off, because the media wouldn't allow it to happen.....this stuff hits the press almost before it happens when a Republican is involved.....now days the press has to be shamed into picking up a similar story about a Democrat by the new true media, bloggers and talk radio.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 25, 2009....

  I know you didn't ask me.  However while I don't think cheating is ok that is because I despise dishonesty.  For example I am anxiously awaiting a pro-life rally in front of my office sometime in the next say six months.  As I was "quote" welcomed to the jungle.  But I think monogamy is stupid.

  Don't give me this it's the right thing to do BS for why they take it.  They just get cornered.  I've yet to hear a Republican (or anybody) break the story themselves as to how they were cheating.or gay or whatever.  So your first point is BS and you know it.  Second they could pull if they wanted,  the myth of liberal media is just that a myth.  Particularly when you take it to the extreme and want to talk about Hollywood which for whaver reason is brought in.  Without even glancing once at the television I feel comfortable saying for every movie with a gay in it there are three where love of family and other Christian/Right/Conservative values are the central theme.

  Even if you covered the Dems on it they get to shrug and say yeah so what?  Of course I fuck around.  It really is differnt because of the values.  Just like I would rip up one side and down the other of a democrat who disowned his daughter for being homosexual or having an abortion.  Up oneside and down the other because these are things the party stands on. 

  Promoting moral decency is not a bad thing.  It is possibly one of the most important things we can do as a society.  Which is why I speak so loudly on my own moral values.  In particular freedom.  I believe everybody should be free to make ANY decision they like so long as it doesn't effect those around them.  I belive if you want to do any drug you like you should be able to.  You also go to jail if you commit crimes like theft, even high.  I believe if you want to have a gay gang bang go for it, just leave me the fuck alone.  You want to die?  Just don't jump into traffic it's your life.  (I know this effects others it is an exception to the rule).  So on and so forth.  Anytime you ask my opinion sparing a few times that I can't even think of my answer is to err on the side of individual freedom.  Always.  Which is why "we" (again I'm using the term to refer to yourself, SMB, ALIEN, and java as a collective) disagree so often because I will never quietly support oppression of choice.  I tell the left the same thing on gun ownership.

• D6fer said on Jun 25, 2009....

  You like freedom of choice huh? Let's see if that is true. Check this out

• andora said on Jun 26, 2009....

  D6fer said:
  
  Andora.....does this mean that you think cheating on ones spouse or significant other is ok?.....or just when Liberals do it?
  
  I had to look at your supposition and then reread my words....how did u come up with that?
  
  I wholeheartedly agree with sean about honesty....this is my only rule ( I guess having agreement with an insane woman says something :[)  ))))))))))
  
  if my lover has an overwhelming desire to be intimate with another woman, that he is turned on by, I am all for it! This is why I created the game of panGasm - it is a non-sexual game that allows for the deep and amazing levels of sexual attraction to get expressed -- no genitals are involved in this game so people can explore their feelings without guilt or breaking promises. Like I said, I don't have any promises to others, except that I will tell my truth as I know it -- and, my truth is subject to change -- that's called evolution.
  
  and how did the issue of two term pres bring up adultery? Sanford? it turns out he used State money to go to Argentina...he better get kicked out for that! As far as his sexual escapade? that's between he and his wife - except in this case Sanford attacked Clinton and wanted him impeached for even less than what Sanford has been up to. So, yes this is very different than just adultery!
  
  I have nothing against an agenda to uplift American values, as you said D6, but if those values propose oppression  and discrimination against adults who are not hurting a soul, then that is not a moral stand it is fascism in the name of a limited idea of God!
  
  Those who condemn homosexuals tend to be homophobes that are saying more about themselves than about anyone else!
  

• javadewd said on Jun 26, 2009....

  I heard in a US poll today that Sarah Palin is the most recognized and admired figure of the Republican party... But in that same poll in Argentina, Sanford comes on top.

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 26, 2009....

  Well it's good to agree with you twice in a row Andora.  If my signifant other has her thing go do your thing.  Be happy, life is too short to spend being miserable and trapped in a box.

   

• D6fer said on Jun 26, 2009....

  so hypocrisy is grounds for dismissal, but not crimes and misdemeanors right andora?

• andora said on Jun 27, 2009....

  honey baby sweetie D6 I have no rules, I keep no one's secrets for them and I refuse to be a hostage
  
  as an immortal, I have all of the time in the world to do it all :D
  
  I get younger everyday and I find it boring to project all this morality upon suffering souls who just want to feel the arms of love with a whole shit load of chi behind it. hell, people take drugs to simulate it, but if you get the real thing no one needs drugs to go there.
  
  Ecstasy is a gateway drug
  
  
  for me, it was a wake up call about how little time I spent in my heart
  
  did i take more
  
  rarely if ever because I knew that I had to get my own chemistry lab to make that juju drug that everyone and their uncle would like to market....because the ironic aspect of these types of illusions is that the more you take them the less you are able to make the drugs you are craving. plus these types of things including pharma drugs take away teeth. smile :'
  
  we all have what it takes to make dopamein, oxytosin, seratonin etc...but, we didn't realize that those drugs go away more and more, everytime we lie ;( so the stubborn motherfuckers just keep taking more drugs and end up brain lame!
  
  we just need to know how to wield our sexual desire with integrity, in a way that makes us immune to addiction and devoted to maintaining a lean mean fuck machine
  
  
  yehaw
  
  
  I guess tonight is a bit of a rise for me --- i feel the summer lust moving through the wind --
  
  why do i stay home tonight when the lust is at a peak?
  
  because i have all the time in the world and i don't have to hunt for sex!
  
  it follows me around like a love starved dog
  
  am I complaining?
  
  not really....I just know how to avoid the demonic forms of sex
  
  alohhhhaaaaaa
  

• andora said on Jun 27, 2009....

  you agreeing with me sean?
  
  two times no less
  
  
  well, I bet you believe in being a lean and meean u know what, even so, I am one crazy bitch and you continue to insist I am insane
  
  i guess it takes one to know one, hey cimosabe?
  

• andora said on Jun 27, 2009....

  I'm still trying to figure out why a blog about obama brings up this little teta tete?
  
  it's got to be Michael Jacksons music running through my veins :D
  
  
  

• D6fer said on Jun 28, 2009....

  uh yeah....right.....sorry, I have no experience with illegal drugs personally.....not sure what that has to do with the topic....but whatever.

• andora said on Jun 28, 2009....

  we were talking about cheaters
  
  and that was my little sililiquoi about the biochemical drugs that we make from our own endocrine system when extreme levels of taboo sex get going
  
  these guys are getting high off of going into the secret land of lust - even the holy rollers have little defense against these wonderful endocrine drugs.
  
  I would like people to know about the legal drugs one can create without cheating
  
  for what its worth :(
  

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