• uniquely-ironic said on May 26, 2009....

  I'm pretty shocked that it was upheld too.  Given that they made an exception to recognize the marriages that were done during that window of opportunity it smacks of political maneuvering.

• ALIENated said on May 26, 2009....

  
  If it is Obama will be of no help to us ...
  
  Interesting that you say "us". Are you a homo? Why do you care whether 
  homos can marry? And I believe those on "your" side are the haters of 
  decency and tradition. There is no reason in the world for homos to marry. 
  It is just another step in the agenda to legitimize the homosexual lifestyle 
  and MAKE Christians, Jews, Muslims, and anyone who wants a decent 
  society, accept it as OK. I, for one, never will no matter what. And true
  Christians never will because God does not accept it and comdemns it. In
  my mind, you would have to be an atheist to accept homosexuality as
  anything but a perversion. I do not hate homosexuals. I think they are
  misguided and I want them to turn away from their hazardous lifestyle.
  It does not take much research to uncover the truth about the homo
  lifestyle -- it kills. God designed us and knows what is good for us and
  what is bad for us. He knows, for example, that horrible diseases (like
  AIDS) await those that practice homosexuality. Being in favor of homo
  marriage is like letting your kid run wild at the mall (or anywhere). You
  think you are doing the kid a favor, but you are not, and that will 
  become obvious when they fall from the third floor. The same goes
  for homo marriage. You think you are the good guy here -- let the
  homos marry. Who cares? God cares, and I care, and the majority
  of rational, decent Americans care. Those same people that discipline
  their children and try to raise them not to smoke dope and lust after
  little children. I think AIDS was just a hint of what is to come next. If
  a cure is found for AIDS, something worse will be right around the 
  corner. And, as we have seen, these homo-transmitted diseases can
  hop over into the hetero world, and to our children. God warned us,
  and God WILL NOT BE MOCKED. So I say good for you California, you
  finally got something right (except for letting those marriages stand).
  By the way, are Ellen and Rosie still married?
  
  

• woomraider said on May 27, 2009....

  Abominations ? Is that word often heard echoing across America ?
  
  You don't really believe olive oil was used primarily as a cooking oil since the beginning do you ?
  
  Marriage should remain between a man and a woman only in America.  Marriage should be limited to the opposite sex couples who are, have been and will remain the majority here in America as well it should.
  
  It may be your right to engage in a gay or lesbian lifestyles, but you have no right to marriage as marriage is, has been and remains to be to all reasonable people, a marriage exist only between man and woman.
  
  No matter a law written by man, gay marriage was never a part of God's plan from what I have read in the pages of the Bible.
  
  Gays and lesbians were never meant to be married, as they were perhaps to be bound, just not by means of a marriage.
  
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on May 27, 2009....

  The thing is GOD is imaginary.  And since your entire point hinges on the belief in the false it's stupid.  Basicall you're arguing that I shouldn't keep green glowing rocks because Superman is alergic.  It's ignorant to the max.

• ALIENated said on May 27, 2009....

  
  Let me say it one more time, saying it does not make it so. Millions of 
  humans now and across time have believed in God. Your failure to 
  believe only hurts you, not any of us who believe. Most of our laws
  are based on God's laws, like it or not. When we get away from that
  premise, we are doomed because God knows vastly more than any of
  us know. Even if you forget God, people voted against homosexual 
  marriage and the court had no right to overturn that now or last year. 
  People decide every day what laws they want to live by. Comparing 
  homosexual marriage to slavery or whatever that arguement is, better 
  fits your green rocks analogy, or whatever you were getting at. 
  Throwing a bunch of silly terms around does not prove your case. 
  Black people were discriminated against because of their skin tone, 
  not because they perform perverted acts not typically accepted as
  normal. This law is about not perverting marriage. We, as a society, 
  draw the line at one man and one woman. Open the door to same sex
  marriage and there is no way to say no to polygamy, beastiality, or
  any other perversion of marriage. For those of us who do believe in
  God, this is a simple matter. Even if you do not believe in God, you
  know as well as I know that the homo agenda will not stop there
  because marriage is not the real issue. It is about making the 
  unacceptable acceptable. You only have to look at the history of 
  the later years of the Roman Empire to see what happens to a
  society that forgets about God and treats every perversion as
  perfectly normal. I do not know about you, but I do not want to live
  in a society where perversion is the norm, and decency is treated
  as stupidity, something "ignorant to the max". To me, homosexuality
  is stupid, but I really do not care if people want to engage in that
  practice. People can cut off their toes and eat them for all I care.
  That does not affect me, but I do not, and will not accept it as
  normal.
  
  

• patrick144000 said on May 28, 2009....

  Sean, like you, I believe this is an issue where the courts will have to step in.
  
  The majority is not always right!  That's why this is a constitutional republic that protects the rights of the minority, not a (mob-rule) democracy.
  
  But I also think a lot of this is an issue of semantics.
  
  I hear from lots of folks that they admit gay and lesbian couples should have legal protection for hospital visitation, inheritance, even keeping adopted children -- but they flinch at calling a same-sex relationship "marriage".
  
  This is more of an emotional issue about the meaning of "marriage" than anything else.
  
  But deep down, I think most people realize there are lots of great same-sex couples out there who love each other as much or more than any straight couple.  And if the shoe was on the other foot, and straight folk were told they could *never* marry the person they loved, they would scream about the injustice.
  
  Since a House divided against itself cannot stand, and since it is alien to our nation for one state to refuse to accept the marriages of another, this issue will have to be settled eventually by the U.S. Supreme Court.
  
  

• patrick144000 said on May 28, 2009....

  ALIENated, you wrongly assume that there are no gay Christians.  Well, I am one of them, and I assure you that your interpretation of the bible is just as wrong-headed as were the members of the pro-slavery Southern Baptist Convention 150 years ago.  They took the bible out of historical context then -- and you are doing the same thing now, while refusing to read Galatians 3:28, realizing that it quotes Genesis 1:27 to overturn it.  Christians are not of the old creation -- we are a new creation in Christ.  The so-called prohibitions in the bible are against ritual same-sex religious prostitution in the worship of idols and false gods (Romans 1 and Leviticus 18 & 20); against sexual violence and gang-rape of foreigners to keep them in their place (Genesis 19 with Judges 19 -- read them both); and against the abduction of boys to make them sex slaves (the meaning of arsenokoites in 1 Cor. 6:9).
  
  Your calling homosexuality "unnatural" is funny to me -- are you saying NO straight couples do oral sex?  Wake up, man.  lol.
  
  Nor am I impressed by your "slippery slope" argument.  Those of us who support same-sex marriage do not support polygamy or incest, any more than you do.
  

• ALIENated said on May 28, 2009....

  
  You seem to have a good handle on your argument, but, of course, I am
  not buying it. If you were a true Christian, you would not believe as you
  do, and we can argue that all night long, and I have argued that all night
  long before. I also know Democrats who claim to be Christians, but I do
  not understand that one either. Democrats are baby killers. How could
  they be Christians? The only way to settle arguments like that 
  (interpreting the Bible) is to wait and see what God says during that big
  question and answer session we all hope to have in heaven. As you say, 
  people twist the words of the Bible and pick alternate meanings of words
  to support their argument, but it still means what is means and says what
  it says. If you want to fool youself, be my guest. I have heard too many
  knowledgeable men of God speak about these things to put much stock
  in your speil, above, so pardon me if I do not run and look all that up. I
  also know that you can remove a brick here and there from a wall and it
  will continue to stand for a while. However, once enough bricks are 
  removed, the wall will come tumbling down. That should already be 
  evident. Just look around at what we have today. Do you really want to
  force, by way of the Supreme Court, the majority of Americans to 
  accept perversion as law. You can poopoo the slippery slope argument 
  all you want, but that does not make it untrue. To think homo advocates
  will stop their whining if homo marriage is legalized is pretty naive. The 
  whining did not stop when sodomy laws were dropped (or ignored) and it 
  will not stop if homo marriage is legalized. And how can polygamists be 
  denied if we redefine marriage? Answer: there will be no way to deny 
  them. And thinking this is anything like slavery is just plain assinine and 
  hopefully makes black people see red every time they hear that. This is 
  about people wanting to corrupt something, which almost everyone has 
  agreed on for centuries, for no good reason. Marriage is meant to be a 
  safe haven for having and raising children. Homosexuals cannot have 
  children (with each other), so there is really no need for them to marry 
  anyway. Yes, some people get married and do not have kids, but that 
  not the norm (and frankly, I do not understand that either). Plus, God 
  tells us to do things and the reasons are not immediately apparent. You 
  may not go to hell for doing those things (like eating pork), but it could 
  cost you your life, or it could cost you your society, or your civilization. 
  The family has already been attacked by the abortionists. It may not 
  survive this additional attack. And once the family goes, our whole 
  civilization will soon follow. But the bottom line is that it really makes no
  sense. Two men (or two women) can easily draw up some legal papers 
  that will give them all the rights they want. They can buy a house 
  together. They can sign waivers to see each other in the hospital (and 
  they were instrumental in causing that problem in the first place). But, 
  as I said, we all know that is not the point. It is about MAKING everyone
  accept homosexuality as normal. As a true Christian, I cannot and will 
  not ever do that. It is possible to love the sinner and hate the sin, no 
  matter how tired you are of hearing that. BTW, are you a homosexual?
  If not, why do you care about all this? Does is impress your liberal 
  friends? Have you tried that "same sex marriage is the same as slavery"
  argument on any black people? What church do you go to? Does everyone
  in your church think homosexuality is OK? If so, you might want to try
  some other churches where they preach truth and not just political
  correctness. (I am not trying to be sarcastic here.)
  
  

• patrick144000 said on May 28, 2009....

  You seem to think that anyone who disagrees with your infallible interpretation of the bible must not be a true Christian. I guess that means you never have to listen to anyone or learn from them. Hey, good job.

• patrick144000 said on May 28, 2009....

  By the way, yes I am a gay Christian, and I love our Lord Jesus Christ and seek to honor him with my life.
  
  If you truly want to learn something, check out the Gay Christian Network.
  
  Then again, maybe you prefer to have the mentality of the slave owners in 1830.  I mean, isn't the bible clear that slaves should obey their masters?
  
  But your forget that the Spirit of Truth was sent to guide us into all truth, for there were things we were not ready to bear earlier.
  

• ALIENated said on May 28, 2009....

  
  Yep, I have heard all that before. I think there are a lot of people who
  think they are Christians, but, as I said, I just cannot reconcile their
  stance on homosexuality and abortion with being a follower of Christ.
  Jesus came to earth to become a sacrifice for the forgiveness of our
  sins. He forgave a woman's sins, but He also said "go and sin no more."
  I say what I say (someone is not a true Christian) because I see 
  people that claim to be a Christian, but they continue to live in sin and
  deny their sin. If someone is telling you that is OK, you might want to 
  find a new spiritual leader. Someone who will tell you the truth as I
  am. Someone that is interested in your eternal soul, not just your 
  worldly lusts (yes, I know men and women have oral sex) and physical
  needs. You are most likely listening to a homosexual pastor. What do
  you expect him or her to say? They are wrong and they want to take
  you with them. You think I am speaking from a position of hate, but I
  am speaking from a position of love. God loves you like He does any of
  His children, just as any human parent would love a child, but He has
  your best interests in mind. You can live your life walking in His ways
  or you can live your life in the pig sty, with the pigs. You may be His
  child in the pig sty, but are you really honoring Him by being there? 
  Your decision does not impact my life in any way. So I could care less
  what you do or think. But decisions to allow the continued spread of
  sin affects us all. As a true Christian I have to speak the truth as I
  understand it. That is all I can do.
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on May 28, 2009....

  I hate to cosign ALIEN but he's right.  If you are gay and Christian you are wrong about one or the other.  It really is rather simple. 

• patrick144000 said on May 28, 2009....

  1.  You keep ASSUMING (!!!!!!!) that homosexuality is a sin, when I have dealt with those passages above.  Excuse me, sir, but you are wrong.
  
  2.  I am also against abortion.  Do not assume (!) that Christian gay = pro abortion.
  
  3.  If you admit that men and women also engage in oral sex, how then am I giving in to my "worldly lusts"?
  
  4.  I also agree that Christians are called to follow Christ and reject sin.  However, I believe you are mistaken when you think that a same-sex union would be a sin.
  

• patrick144000 said on May 28, 2009....

  Oh, Sean.  How can you give in to the rhetoric of the fundies?
  
  Listen, do you understand the context of Romans 1?  The Greeks and Romans were rejecting the invisible deity taught even by their own philosophers, and were instead worshiping Cybele, the mother goddess, who had prominent temples in Corinth (where Paul wrote his letter) and in Rome (where the letter was being sent).  She was worshiped using idols of women, lions, and serpents.
  
  Her male priests, the Galli, castrated themselves -- what a terrible penalty for thier error -- wore women's clothing, and played the part of women in ritual temple prostitution, so dishonoring their bodies in idolatrous prostitution.
  
  Even the women, likewise, who worshiped Cybele dressed as men, were fitted with artificial phalli / dildos, and played the part of men in this temple prostitution.
  
  That all has NOTHING to do with good little Christian or Jewish boys or girls who love God, but who happen to fall in love with others of the same gender.  To apply Romans 1 to modern gay people is slanderous and wrongheaded.
  
  Keep in mind, Sean, that the bible has been understood and translated by either monks, priests or heteronormative scholars.  The same kind of narrow thinking mistranslated passages and kept women from being church leaders for centuries, even though Jesus himself viewed women as equals and Paul clearly called Junia an apostle in Romans 16, as Chrystostom noted.
  
  Granted, Christianity arose in a time of Stoicism, and as a community we have not dealt with sex adequately.
  
  But please don't say it's either Christian OR gay.  That's as wrong as saying that the 80% of faithful, mass-attending Catholic couples who use contraception are not "really" Catholics.  Papa Benedict might think so, but not me.
  
  Sincerely,
  Patrick
  

• SeanRenaud said on May 28, 2009....

  They aren't really Catholics.  It really is simple.  You accept a religion and you follow the fucking rules.  Or you don't and have no business calling yourself an "x".

  A jew who eats pork?  Not a Jew.

  A muslim who doesn't pray 5 times a day?  Not a Muslim

  A christian who is gay?  not a Christian.

  It is a sin, it is described as a sin in deuteronomy (or Numbers I forget) and Jesus didn't come to change the law, he came to complete it (as he states).  Just like he is 100% against marriage, not 50% like Jews because we've grown up since then and are expected to be BETTER. 

  You don't get to interpret your magic fairy tails to mean whatever you want whenever you want them to.  It's the same problem I have with ALIEN on invitro.  It's okay to create 8 lives knowing fully well you will kill seven because one gets born, but its murder if you fuck up create one and kill one.  I mean that shit don't even work out mathematically but it's okay by him because the "it's just a blob of tissue" argument is legit. . .so long as we creat one life.  Same with the amount of pornography despite Christ telling people to pluck out their own eyes. 

  I wish there was a word worse than hypocrisy but there isn't so I'm stuck with that.

  But no, Christian and Gay=liar.  Pure and simple. 

• patrick144000 said on May 28, 2009....

  Sean,
  
  You are as dogmatic as ALIEN, just coming from the other end.  That is tiresome.
  Like, "America, love it or leave it"...so that means we can never amend the Constitution, right?
  Believe it or not, religions also grow, evolve and change.
  It's not Deuteronomy, it's Leviticus, and since the technical terms "zakar" and "toevah" are used, they are talking about Canaanite ritual prostitution.
  But then, you yourself realize you don't know what you are talking about, and it's freaking easier to call me a "liar".
  
  Yeah, great.
  
  Get a brain.
  

• ALIENated said on May 28, 2009....

  
  Just hope that on judgement day ignorance is an excuse. You can play with
  words all you like, but sin is sin. As I said, you might want to try another
  church that is not run by a homosexual. However, you are proving my point.
  You really do not care about homosexual marriage. You want me to accept
  your behavior as non-sinful, but that will never happen. I did not define sin,
  God did. Why not have that homosexual pastor marry you if you and he or
  she thinks it is OK? Why do you need the government's approval. What the
  court decides is what the government recognizes as marriage. Why do you
  care about that? About all that government recognition will get you is a
  better income tax rate, maybe. Get a lawyer to draw up some papers so
  you can see your "husband" in the hospital when AIDS sets in (remember,
  that is part of the reason for God's warning, sin leads to death). The 
  government and I will not recognize your marriage, but who cares.
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on May 29, 2009....

  The Constitution was written by men.  Mortal, short seing, flawed.  Amending their works is nessessary to progress.  The Bible is one of two things.  Bullshit or written by an infalllible God as is claimed within its own pages.

  Also, oh no, you proved I wasn't write on which book it was.  Whatever.  I'm impressed.  In nearly three years of Soulcasting finally someone who MIGHT rival my own knowledge of the Bible.

  Also ALIEN they shouldn't need a good lawyer.  Whatever you did should be sufficient.  Have you come up with a good reason why you should get better benefits with your wife than you would if you took in your Aunt Sally after she got some disease?  If not you really should STFU and stop digging your grave.  I'm kinda tired of tossing ladders in for ya.

• stopmediabias said on May 29, 2009....

  Sean-I'm a little concerned about this headline "prop hate."  You know my take on the whole gay marriage issue.  If people believe validating the behavior of a certain minority in order to forcefully legitimize it for the majority how this that hateful to disagree?  Especially when it is bad for society.

  Then this mixing of religion into the debate.

  Our religion tells us that we are all imperfect and are going to fall short.  It is not the sins that matter it is how we reconcile these sins(within reason). 

• ALIENated said on May 29, 2009....

  
  The government recognizes that the family is a good thing, so married
  people get tax breaks and deductions for children. The way we are
  unpopulating ourselves, the deductions for children should be tripled.
  And I do not need any ladders. If you looked at that link, you would
  see that statistically homos are unfaithful and homo unions do not
  last that long. Homo unions are based on sex. Once the sex stops,
  they are basically just roommates, like any other two guys or two
  gals. Once the sex stops in hetero unions, they are still the parents
  of one or more children (usually). As I have said, if you do not have
  kids, no marriage makes that much sense. I am not really sure why
  older people remarry once they are not likely to have more children.
  (If I outlive my wife, I doubt that I will remarry.) It probably just 
  shows their commitment to each other in the eyes of God. He is the
  one we are really acknowledging when we marry, not Uncle Sam. 
  The Bible says Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, 
  and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. In other
  words, you leave your original family, where you were born, and become
  another family with your wife (or husband), and in the family you
  reproduce. If we make a mockery of marriage (and consequently
  family), how long before our brain damaged leaders revisit the 
  benefits that married couples enjoy and remove them?
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on May 29, 2009....

  Straight relationships are based on sex too ALIEN.  Even your own argument proves it.  Just instead of people being able to go their separate ways when they have grown tired of each other we've instead told them that they should remain together (or get together) for the sake of their children.  It's stupid.  It's beyond stupid.

  And we are not unpopulating ourselves.  You've got us mistaken with Europe again.

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