Some interesting things have been happening in my family. A major argument that I won't get into details about has led me to question what is the different between a lie and NOT telling someone something majorly important.
Why would an individual keep info from another. info of an ownership nature. What are reasons why a man would want only his name listed as the owner of something? is it because he's planning to, say, be sure he gets the home should there be a divorce? The relationship is rocky.
Is what this man is doing just withholding info or lying about it? If you DON'T tell someone something, isn't that as worse as lying? Would something of the nature fall into the white lies category? Isn't this sort of issue black/white and NOT shades of grey?
Would a lie be an individual NOT telling another individual how the first one has romantic feelings for the other? What if the reasons are because the first person can see how the second person's current relationship is so good for the second person? And he first individual can see there is love and connection and simply cannot be the one to try to stop it or get in the way? Is NOT telling, withholding, in essence lying? Is it a little white lie?
how does one know when to say things, and when not to say things? how?
justk posted on May 24, 2009
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Comments
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gingersoul said on May 24, 2009....
Justk........i think that withholding is a matter of trying to defend the other person from information that might hurt them. And there is always open the option of eventually reveal the information when the time is right.
Lying is a matter of trying to defend yourself from the reaction of other people when they would know the truth. And there is no option of revealing the truth, not even later in the future, unless one is cornered by unavoidable evidences.
The first act is still done out of respect, care, desire of not seeing the other person hurt, so is done out of love.
The second act is purely an act of selfishness, fear of consequences and being coward.
I have been guilty of both acts in the past.
When i withheld the truth i honestly did it out of love.
When i told the truth i did it out of love.
When i lied i was just covering my poor choices.
In my relationships I have also been the recipient of withholding and lies...... all of them have been forgiven, few also forgotten..
There is no always black and white in life....the areas in between are the ones we live in most frequently.
About the love situation you talk about....its not lying...its not even withholding.....its simply loving someone in silence.....a hard, hard position to be in.....the cruelest...
Wishing that the one you love is happy without you but always hoping to be the one they are happy with..
Hope you are not in this position..
Have a nice Sunday....:-)
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justk said on May 24, 2009....
thank you gingersoul~
your perspective is very different from what I expected, at least I didn't expect to hear that withholding is done out of love. Your explanation makes a lot of sense to me.
If someone just withholds vital info, I suppose it could be out of love. But if the other person somehow finds out the info and is very badly hurt by it, I don't think the withholding is worth it.
I guess complete honesty and truth is better, even if it could hurt someone. And I think we do live in grey. Sometimes I wish we didn't.
The love situation I speak of I am in. You never know what the future holds though, I still may be a part of their lives.
Hoping you have a lovely Memorial weekend :->
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gingersoul said on May 24, 2009....
But see, i didn't reach the point of talking about the consequences..
Consequences of withholding and lying can be very similar...i know it very well..
The hurt of the people kept in the dark is the same.
And that hurt is something not easy to handle, for both parties.
So its not a matter if the withholding was worth it...at the moment of the action it was, evidently.
The consequences of inflicting hurt is never worth of anything..
Complete truth is a myth. We are all guilty of little lies each single day of our lives.....there are extremely rare people (if any) immune from this action...
Even Mother Theresa of Calcutta has been lying to herself and specially to everybody.....she confessed only later in her life that she had been doubting the existence of God for many, many years....nobody ever knew it, she didn't tell to anybody..
Now you tell me...if Mother Theresa is guilty of this action...
Yes, you never know what the future holds..... :-)
Thank you, my Sunday is smooth and lazy ......
I have just finished to watch a wonderful movie "The reader"...i was crying like a little pig, actually....:-)
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ipmat said on May 24, 2009....
i am going thru a similar situation .a lie is a lie whether white or black .as to the love part being a hypocrite helps alas i am not... -
dyingman said on May 25, 2009....
This is hard?
You hold your tongue when the truth serves no net positive purpose.
(Your best friend of 25 years slept with your high school sweetheart.)
Anyone who will lie to you is going to hide things.
Some folks who won't lie do hide things.
The first you need to keep an eye out for. Ideally, you cut them loose. Who needs to waste effort policing their morals? When you catch them at something dubious, and they lie to you, you now have to watch them closely AND play detective. Twice the effort.
For those hiding things and worth the effort, you may need to produce an environment of trust where the slippery person feels safe in confessing BEFORE you find out. This may involve leniency which involves little more than compensating you as best they can. When you discover the hidden crimes, restitution should be enhanced with an apology gesture so that confessing becomes the least painful choice.
My kids tell me the truth because of this policy. It's rather surprising the level of candor you can get from children given a simple system designed to make truth telling the best option.
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cntlvmenuf said on May 25, 2009....
The first situation about someone in a relationship owning stuff and not telling their other partner sounds like it is done out of malice. But....depending on the property laws of the state, it might backfire because even though it is in one person's name, if the two are still legally married, the other party can still claim rights to what they were kept in the dark about....especially if it was bought using both their earnings, since I think some states stipulates if you buy stuff when y'all still together, even if only one person's name is on it, it might still be considered communal.
In the second situation, I think withholding might be good. I think its kinda different from the first situation because we don't always go around telling people, "I hate you!" Or "I love you!" and in this situation, since one of the parties is not available per se, then there really is no recourse for one to be honest about their feelings. Unless, of course, they become so unbearable, then they can fess up, and the most crucial thing I think would be for them to disappear after that if the feelings are not reciprocated. But its not easy to make a call on this because matters of the heart tend to be more complicated than a simple tell them how you feel or don't.
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justk said on May 25, 2009....
gingersoul~ I believe you are on to it, hitting the nail on the head. Mother Theresa withheld her doubts...WoW...see if I had known she had doubts, my perception of her would be different. but I see the point you make. We all don't just spill everything on our minds, since spilling everything doesn't mean that we'll...I don't know what words I'm looking for here...
Is The Reader the movie with Kate Winslet? If it is, I'm surprised that it's a tearjerker.
Happy Monday :->
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justk said on May 25, 2009....
ipmat~ I'm not sure I know what you mean about being a hypocrite, but what you mean about lies I understand.
dm~ Producing an environment of trust I would imagine doesn't always work for everyone, but I can see how this form of discipline works with kids. Especially since the alternative is punishment. Perhaps I misunderstand you.
cnt~I believe that you are right on with the first situation. Although, the circumstances I'm thinking of are a little different. The individual who owns the property bought it with inheritance, so the claim is that it's this person's place. Reasons for it are, say if the partner's disease got worse and they couldn't afford to pay all medical bills, the collector's allegedy couldn't go after the property since it's under one of their names, and a part of a whole separate account. I quite frankly don't buy it. I worked at a collection agency and an asset is an asset. The collector would still go after it, but this individual claims the attorney said the collector wouldn't get it. As for the second situation, I'm thinking you are right on. Telling would not be in anyone's benefit. Take what you can get, I suppose.
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Goose21 said on May 26, 2009....
interesting reading. -
justk said on May 26, 2009....
glad you find it interesting goose. -
Adidas said on May 27, 2009....
This is an interesting conversation, but there is one aspect I don't understand at the moment. If there is a possibility of anyone continuing the conversation via email, I will give mine first, if only to understand the psychology of this part specifically: "In the second situation, I think withholding might be good. I think its kinda different from the first situation because we don't always go around telling people, "I hate you!" Or "I love you!" and in this situation, since one of the parties is not available per se, then there really is no recourse for one to be honest about their feelings. Unless, of course, they become so unbearable, then they can fess up, and the most crucial thing I think would be for them to disappear after that if the feelings are not reciprocated. But its not easy to make a call on this because matters of the heart tend to be more complicated than a simple tell them how you feel or don't." My question of misunderstanding is simply this: why is itcrucial to disappear if the feelings shown are not reciprocated? Thank you. -
justk said on May 28, 2009....
Adidas- I cannot speak for cnt, but I took it to mean: If the other party doesn't reciprocate or feel the same way or is still unavailable, then the confessor should leave the other alone. Give it space and time. But, that's just how I interpreted it.
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