• ALIENated said on May 24, 2009....

  
  I have said this many times here at SoulCast: insurance is not the solution
  for the problem -- insurance is the problem. When I was a kid, I am not
  sure if anyone had insurance. In those days, a trip to the doctor cost next
  to nothing and hospital visits were not that big a deal. Then comes the
  love of the liberals ... something for nothing. Employers started offering
  free medical insurance to employees, and the prices started going up just
  like anything in the something-for-nothing arena. Everyone started taking
  themselves and their kids to the doctor if someone sneezed. Doctors 
  were soon overworked and started charging more. People without this
  free insurance started having problems paying for it and started going to
  emergency rooms or anywhere that was free. Someone has to pay for
  all those free visits, so insurance holders (or their insurance companies)
  started being overcharged to make up the shortfall due to servicing
  free patients (like illegal immigrants). It is all a supply and demand problem.
  When everyone is provided with "free" health care, not only will smart 
  people stop becoming doctors (only to lead a fixed income career), but 
  the system will become so overburdened and shoddy, we will be in the 
  same boat as Canada and other countries that have gone the socialist 
  way. I say pass a law that companies can only offer medical insurance 
  with maybe a $3000 deductible, which will cut down on unnecessary 
  trips to the doctor, and will reduce the demand. Or do away with company
  provided medical insurance all together. If the government gets involved, 
  and tries to provide "free" health care, it will go to hell in no time. I have 
  never really understood why people think they are guaranteed anything. 
  A government that provides for everyone's every need is destined to fail.
  Most Democrat administrations prove that in no time.
  
  

• travelr712 said on May 24, 2009....

  i don't see it so much as a crisis as i do that the healthcare system is broken. alien put the primary reasons pretty well i think. i correlate it with the financial system. decades of abuses and lack of oversight created conditions where such ponzie schemes as stanford financial and madoff could thrive, and companies like AIG could sell their tripple A rating to be used to back high risk investments. we all know the outcome of the misuse of the system. i see the same types of problems in the justice and the healthcare system. i don't see obama as saying that there is a healthcare crisis, i see him saying that the system is in trouble and left to its own devices, it will create the same type of problems that we are experiencing now due to the financial system breakdown. one way or another, these systems eventually balance themselves, but left to their own devices, they can cause far reaching and devistating effects.

• justk said on May 24, 2009....

  great post. I don't know what else to say :->

• stopmediabias said on May 24, 2009....

  The main questions are what is the problem(s) with our healthcare system and how do we fix them?

   

• travelr712 said on May 24, 2009....

  they're as complex as the problems with the financial system were and in some ways still are. a nurse friend told me a couple weeks ago that there's a shortage of nearly half a million medical professionals. that, of course, drives wages way out of line. drug company lobies are some of the biggest in the country, so they have allot of backing in legislation. of course, the real problem is that it's become about money instead about the health of the patient.

• auroralost said on May 25, 2009....

  While you and I have different views on many things, I do respect your opinions and posts and read them often.  I can tell you from personal experience that health care is a problem.   I'll start with what I would like to see.   It is pretty basic.   I think that government sponsered health care system would look similar to workplace sponsered one with a few changes.   I think that there should be a choice of health care options, and that there should be a basic per person/family premium that would be paid by the individual.  For example I pay $55 per pay period for my premium.  This could be taken out of you payroll like taxes, social security..etc.   If you are not working it come from unemployment, social security, welfare etc.   I know it's a basic idea and I do not by any means have all of the answers for how it would work out detail by detail but it's a start. 
   
  Ok, now for what is the problem now.  As I said I pay $55 per pay now for my insurance.  This is strickly medical insurance.  To give a little more information I only make 27,000 a year.   I am an single with no children.  That is for coverage just for me.  I have a $1000 deductible.   Nothing gets paid pretty much until I meet that deductable.  What that means is for the most part I still outright pay my doctor bill each year.  So why do I have insurance, the just in case factor.   The only other benefit is I get a discount on prescriptions until I reach the deductible.   They are not covered until then, just a discount.  This can have me paying close to 10% of my Gross income to health care each year.  It is under the limits where you are able to claim it on your taxes still.   It is frustrating for me.  I don't go to the doctor unless it is really needed and sometimes not even then because I don't have the money to pay for the tests that need to be run and the last thing I want is more debt.   One thing I left out is that when the deductible is paid I still have copays and percentages I must cover of course. 
   
  Another example is that my sisters place of employement (she works for a non for profit) does not cover her insurance costs.   While her husband was out of work for a few months and she had to insure them, the cost was over $400 a month for insurance premiums for the family.  
   
  I just think that there has to be a better way and better options.  As much as people complain about HMOs I liked having one when I did.   My premium through that employer was $68 per month.  They cover pretty much all the basics with my copay being an affordable $10 per office visit.  I understand that having to get referals is pain in the ass.  I understand that HMOs don't often cover larger needed things but for me just needing the basics most years it worked. 
   
  I think different type of plans work for different types of people.  I think having govenment based healthcare with being able to choose which one works best for you maybe costs could be more regulated and everyone could have affordable coverage that works for them.
   
  Ok feel free to pick apart the idea....but be gentle...just trying to exchange ideas.  :-)

• stopmediabias said on May 25, 2009....

  aurora-Here is my problem. 

  1-We have millions of people who work and pay for insurance, are healthy, and rarely go to the doctor.  2-We have people who have no insurance and work in jobs where the employer doesn't provide it.  3-We have lazy people who don't work and can work.  4-And finally we have the disabled who cannot work.

  In the midst of all this we have catastrophic events and illnesses that hit all of the above.

  It is a matter of fact that all of the above regardless of insurance, citizenship, or status can walk into any ER in the country and get the best treatment in the world.

  Now 1 though 4 all need healthcare that is good, reasonable in cost, and covers everything and has something to cover catastrophic issues. 

  Past and present countries and plans in which the government tries to run either falls very short, is a disaster and/or creates another tool for government officials to exploit.  Look at our schools, our roads,  and our environmental policy.

  A socialist style healthcare system is going to be like other socialist systems where people wait months for a procedure.  Our taxes will pay for all of this and we will have no say if the quality of service falls waaayyyy short, just like our schools.  If we decide our kids public school sucks we can take him/her out and pay for a private school PLUS continue to pay school taxes (unless we can get a voucher program like the one the President is shutting down in DC.)

  Is this the kind of thing we want to bring to our current healthcare system?

  As we speak there are private facilitors in the free market offering health insurance to people in catagory number 2.  The government can investigate and eliminate the fraud and stupid regulations on the insurance industry that make healthcare so expensive.  The bottom line here is we can fix any of the problems in our system with taking steps closer to a full or partial socialism.

• travelr712 said on May 25, 2009....

  one issue that has not come up in this discussion is how the judicial system has effected the healthcare system. up to the end of WW2, the common idea was that doctors would do all they could to help a patient, but there were no guarantees, whatever the outcome. i remember in the 70's there started to be a rash of malpractice suits, some that created landmark decisions in the supreme court, against doctors and hospitals. at the same time, doctors had been taught to think of themselves as dispassionate, separated, knowing better than the patient, arrogant. michael crichton (who left shortly before completing his residency out of disgust for the healthcare system) said it was so that they wouldn't become emotionally attached to their patients. suddenly, doctors were spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for malpractice insurance, just to be doctors. until the late 80's, the town i live in was heavily industrial. now, it's primarily medical. with the rise of the medical industry, there has been an exponential increase in law firms here. people now see healthcare as a basic right, doctors more as human technicians, like a computer repairman, and believe that if anything goes wrong, they hit the lottery of the justice system. healthcare costs have not only risen because of the insurance from the consumor side, it is also because of the medical professional side. perhaps the consumer needs to change their view on what the medical system is able to do for a patient?

• ALIENated said on May 25, 2009....

  
  It always marvels me that people (especially liberals and Democrats) sit back
  and gripe about the government and then want the government to take over
  everything and run it. They think the government will take money from "rich
  people" and companies, and they will get something for nothing. Those "rich
  people" are leaving places like New York and California, and when Big Brother
  takes over health care and starts soaking the "rich people' and companies
  even more, guess what is going to happen. Those "rich people" and companies
  are going to leave this country or find tax loopholes (with the help of their
  bought and paid for politicians). Then you and I will be left to pay for it all,
  as usual. Look all all of LBJ's great society bull crap. What did that get us?
  The welfare state. A generation of good-for-nothings taking advantage of
  LBJ's idiocy and becoming even more good for nothing. Medical insurance has
  already gotten the health care system in such a mess it is pathetic. The last
  time I went to the doctor, he would only address the main problem I went in 
  for, and got very agitated when I mentioned a couple of other problems. He
  was worried that I would only pay for one visit instead of several. Do these
  guys still take an oath to help people or do they take an oath to do just 
  enough to collect the massive bill they submit to the insurance company.
  They should now be called doctors of highway robbery instead of doctors
  of medicine. I cannot even imagine how much more fucked up it will be if
  the government gets in the middle of it all. And if you think rich people are
  going to pay for it all, think again. Rich people do not get rich by paying
  taxes. 
  
  

• stopmediabias said on May 26, 2009....

  Trav-I've never understood why the law has been turned into an industry.  Lawyers are suppose to protect and indemnify people, not create lawsuits to make money.  That's another system that should be scrapped and everything reformed to specifics, not generalities like "pain and suffering."

  Alien-Insurance companies are only a middle-man but it seems they make so much money they have allowed medical costs to skyrocket.  Why don't insurance companies bitch when they get a bill from a doctor's office that has a $5 aspirin on it?  As travel mentioned we have lawyers who sue doctors and insurance companies, complacent insurance companies, greedy and complacent doctors, and it all causes our health insurance to be too expensive.

• ALIENated said on May 26, 2009....

  
  Yep, as I said, I think insurance is the problem. We recently had to switch over
  to my wife's medical insurance. It is costing us about $200 a month in bring
  home pay. That is pre-tax, so it costs the government some, too. So the
  insurance gets $2400 a year from us, no telling how much her employer has to
  pay, and Uncle Sam loses some. Our deductible is some ungodly amount like
  $2400, I think. We rarely hit that amount. So we are out $4800 before the
  insurance company has to pay a penny. I think we can go to a clinic for $15,
  if we go see the quacks they recommend (doctors who got their license who
  knows where). The whole problem is, people have to have medical care when
  they need it. It is not like going without caviar or fine wine. It is more like
  going without air or water. Mix in doctors who have to go to medical school 
  and run up big loans for their education, and you have quite a brew. How do
  you attract good doctors and then tell them what they can charge? The
  answer is, you cannot without lowering the standards. I guarantee you, if
  the government takes over our health care, it will become worthless like most
  everything else the government takes over. The best thing the government 
  could do is regulate the insurance companies (make them stop paying $5 for 
  an aspirin) and stop frivolous law suits. If you sign a waiver after being told 
  the risks, you get what you get. However, I will tell you a secret. That
  aspirin costs $5 because you are also paying for the nurse's time to bring it
  to you. They use things like that to determine how much trouble you were
  during your stay at the hospital. If you just lay in the bed and cause no
  trouble, they do not even need nurses. At some point it does get ridiculous
  though.
  
  

• javadewd said on May 28, 2009....

  I wish I could get my wife to jump into stuff like this, being as she's a nurse and all...
  
  The fact that there are fewer medical professionals than necessary could be part of the problem, but then what is the solution? FORCE people to get medical degrees? GIVE AWAY medical education? NATIONALIZE hospitals and health care? Make it POLITICALLY CORRECT to be a medical professional? OUTSOURCE medical care? I'm confused why this is even considered a political issue... This isn't Russia. This isn't Russia, right?
  
  The auto industry wasn't a political issue until some jackass opened up his pie hole and said that they were "too big to fail" :
  
  
  “Some institutions really are too big to fail, and that’s the way it is,” said Douglas W. Elmendorf, a former Treasury and Federal Reserve Board economist who is now at the Brookings Institution in Washington. “There are no good options.” [source]
  
  
  Instead, the auto industry should have fallen, thereby severing ties to those parasites in the UAW and resetting the economy. A single door would not have closed. A single job gray or blue collar job would not have been lost. A single billion dollars would not have been spent to subsidize the American auto industry. A board of directors would have been neutered, some stock would have fallen, but nothing of a crash would have occurred. The whole thing was a ruse. This was an opportunity by a dark and evil force to nationalize one of America's top markets. Congratulations my fellow Americans... We've been duped.
  
  And now it's hard to say whether or not the Democrats really had all that much to do with it, except that they are as predictable as the Republicans. Our politicians are puppets... Brainless, spineless, thoughtless, heartless puppets.
  
  Here's a prediction : After a stint of nationalization fears that will bring shock waves through American industries there will be a fierce backlash from corporations and the public at large. The end result will be everything that authors like William Gibson has wrote about. This process will take a few years, but it's coming, and sadly Washington is playing its part to make it happen. It's beyond anything that Glenn Beck could predict. It's the worst kind of defeat that not even a nuclear war could do to this beloved country.
  
  So who's going to be the first to open an account at a nationalized bank? What will happen to the rest of us who don't have their money in a nationalized bank? Will they get swallowed up in a mess of consolidations like after the dot bust? Will they lose FDIC funding? Will they simply cease to exist like in the 20's and 30's? Smell a rat, people!
  

• ALIENated said on May 29, 2009....

  
  Amen brother.
  
  ... what is the solution? FORCE people to get medical degrees? 
  
  That is exactly the problem with the whole government-run healthcare
  system. The medical profession has paid very well in order to attract 
  the best and brightest. When insurance companies started calling the
  shots, we started seeing doctors from outside the U.S. at the clinics.
  They most likely work for much less, and we have to expect much less 
  (I know, the quality of foreign doctors is debatable, but I am talking 
  from my experiences in the last 10 years or so). When Big Brother 
  takes over, and starts regulating what doctors, nurses, hospitals, etc.,
  can make, you might as well buy some books on home remedies. You
  will probably get better healthcare that way than by going to the
  clinic or hospital and talking to a doctor in India via satellite.
  
  

• javadewd said on May 29, 2009....

  I used home remedies for ten years prior to this last February when my nurse wife marched me in to see her witch doctors. I used to feel great! Now, I'm broke and I feel like shit half the time.
  
  Now is not the time for profit, so why not teach medical sciences instead of shop or home-economics in high school? At least then we wouldn't have so many out of work dumb shits! Maybe we'd get some hotter candy stripers, too!
  

• kevinunknown said on May 31, 2009....

  Why can’t you people open up the idea of living with socialism what’s the big fear of it that you have. I love the idea of livening in a country were wealth is redistributed fairly and the government has a responsibility to provide a vast range of adequate services to the people from the cradle to the grave. I live in Britain were we have a system of national health care and also a private system which includes a vast health insurance industry. As a whole the NHS is always considered to be better and has a massive budget.

  Its fair to say my country is not as socialist as it once was after the years of Thatcherism and now with the economic crisis there has been calling for the return to the old ways. For the feature i truly hope that we create a European federal state with socialist governance. And thus creating a massive superpower that can compete with the Russians, Chinese and Americans.

• ALIENated said on May 31, 2009....

  
  Britian a massive superpower? I am afraid those days are long gone. England
  was once a great country. It seeded many nations and pretty much ruled
  the world. Now it is a nation being taken over by Muslims, as I understand
  it, and unpopulating itself out of existence like so many of those nations it
  seeded. Now it is a nation of socialists, you say, which means it is a nation
  that wants to be taken care of and babied. No wonder it is headed down
  the drain as we are here in America. Maybe socialism is what happens when 
  people give up, when rich and smart people stop telling the the less fortunate
  to step up and join them, and instead step down to join those in the muck 
  and mire. God help us all.
  
  

• kevinunknown said on Jun 01, 2009....

  Not Brittan as a massive superpower but a European federal state. For you to say Britain is depopulating is untrue, indeed the opposite is true just now our main problem is overpopulation.

  You say that “ Maybe socialism is what happens when people give up, when rich and smart people stop telling the less fortunate to step up and join them” that really dose show of your total lack of understanding of the subject.

  To you I would say that capitalism is unfair because it unfairly gives preference to the upper-class of society who are in the minority causing social rifts in a state’s population leading to social unrest and poverty. The free market has problems as well and history has shown that eventually it will explode in on its self without the help of socialist ideas, for example the recant uncertainty around our current financial markets.

• javadewd said on Jun 01, 2009....

  Socialism... Communism... Nanny-state... Hey, fuck it, let's just pay taxes, our car payments and our house payments -- not to mention buy our fuel from -- the government. What's so bad about that? Oh, Kevin. You so hate America. You must not be from this country. What are you? Another Australian homo?

• kevinunknown said on Jun 01, 2009....

  Socialism and Communism are totally incompatible indeed Stalin once said that the two could “never coexist peacefully”. If you had bothered to read my other comments you would know that i am British. I really don’t hate America I don’t now were you got that form but I don’t. The whole tone of your last post is incredibly juvenile.

  You say: “let's just pay taxes, our car payments and our house payments -- not to mention buy our fuel from -- the government.” I have news for you that’s exactly what you’re doing, don’t you watch the news. The American government is now the largest stake holder in General Motors. Most of the banks and building societies have went bust and guess what the government has had to bail them out and has a major stake in them now. Every time you buy full guess what? You’re paying tax on it. I think you get what I’m saying now.

   All of these things have had to happen otherwise these huge business would have went bust if America were socialist the government would already own them, or most of them, and there would never have been any need for such a huge bail out that has further increase the hole in the American purse.

• javadewd said on Jun 01, 2009....

  Yeah, there are a lot of you gloating shitheads out there saying that Socialism and Communism is totally incompatible, but that's where America is heading "at break-neck speed" according to PRAGUE.
  
  And no, I didn't bother to read your anti-American bullshit because I wasn't impressed with the first comment of yours that I saw. Had you bothered to look at my posts you'd find the hint of sarcasm and dark humor, but you Brits just don't get it anyway. Short of Samantha Fox and Rick Astley (and maybe Seal), GB and all of you twats could die in flames and I just wouldn't give two shits.
  
  My mortgage company didn't fold. My car company didn't fold, but my point as shrouded as it seemed to be, is I might as well be anyway. This used to be a great nation and then the fucking Socialists got a hold of it and in less than six months they've turned it into something totally fucking useless. Obama is a Socialist.... Get over it.
  

• travelr712 said on Jun 01, 2009....

  well jd, it wasn't the 'socialists' writing all those derivitives and running all those financial companies that were 'too big to fail', it was capitolists. and the economy went into the toilet in 2008 before the election, not in 2009 after the new president was innaugerated. it is ONLY the unbrideled greed and criminal acts of the capitolists that have gotten us into this mess. it was the republican congress who deregulated derivitives, allowing those companies to package high risk investments under tripple A ratings. that is republican capitolism greed and irresponsibility. bernard madoff was the chairman of the nasdaq, one of the leading capitolist institutions. he used one of the greatest creations of the capitolist system, the ponzi scheme, to steal $50 billion. capitolism is no better or worse than socialism, and it wasn't socialists who ruined our economy, it was republican capitolists.

• ALIENated said on Jun 01, 2009....

  Not totally true, dude. But I will kind of agree with what you said. Capitalists are no better or worse than socialists. I think people promote one system or the other in an attempt to do the right thing, to get a good outcome. But socialism does not work and communism does not work. The problem is human nature. We may be social (many are not even that), but we are not socialists. Human nature says "what is mine is mine and what is yours is yours". Socialism will never work because people like to get paid for what they do, otherwise, why do it? If A gets paid as much as B even though B works twice as hard (just as you claim to), why would B continue to work twice as hard for any length of time. America is great because of capitalism even if it does run aground sometimes. Capitalism is a system of high risk, high reward. Great thinkers, inventers, inovators, and hard workers have created great things, great businesses, and great corporations in this country, and, consequently, lots of great jobs for the rest of us. Look at is this way, do you think HELL will be a socialist or capitalist system? Capitalism is a system that promotes freedom, individualism, and progress. Socialism is an oppressive system that tends to enslave people (a good choice for HELL). Remember that Hitler was the head of a socialist party. People wrongly think right wing means dictators and evil government, when, in fact, that is what left wing brings about. The right wing philosophy advocates less government, not more. Obama, his socialist buddies, and Democrats in general want more government, bigger government, and more government control over every aspect of our lives. That should scare the crap out of anyone who can still add two and two.

• travelr712 said on Jun 01, 2009....

  and iraq was a democracy until hussein alien. socialism doesn't bring on totalitarian government any more than any other form, including communism or the feudal system. and capitalism is just as oppressive as socialism is to any group you want to point out. do you think the slaves and 'second class citizens' of this country weren't oppressed under our shining banner of democracy? do you think homosexuals aren't oppressed? and i'd say that putting a 'homeland security' agent in every police department, fire department, city utility and every other government office in our country is pretty big government. i can call that as much like the russian political officers as you can call obama a socialist. and what did we get for those 8 years? war, hatred by nearly every other country in the world, and an economic meltdown that's coming close to the 1930's. all of those were constructed under the republican regime. but for some reason, the few hard core republican capitalists want to turn a blind eye to all those things and say it's a good way to conduct a country. i, and many, many others, disagree.

• javadewd said on Jun 02, 2009....

  I didn't say Democrats, Trav, I said Socialists. My statement was "This used to be a great nation and then the fucking Socialists got a hold of it and in less than six months they've turned it into something totally fucking useless." If you want to dump it on the Republicans, go fuck yourself. When Prague is saying we've been steadily doing this shit to ourselves from back before either of us were born, showing that they seem to know our history better than you do, I have to reiterate, go fuck yourself and your political rhetoric.

• ALIENated said on Jun 02, 2009....

  I really do not consider the George Dubya years as indicitive of capitalism or a true Republican "regime". I would point to the Reagan years as a better example. I know you can blather off bad things that happened during the Reagan years as well, but you cannot fix Rome in eight years. George Bush senior was not strong enough (or probably smart enough) to continue to govern as Reagan did and he let the Democrats lead him down the wrong path (new taxes), and then they used it against him. I talked to a German guy (a college professor) a few years ago. He was telling me about the high tax rates and the loss of encentive of workers in Germany. It all sounded pretty pathetic to me. For a guy who claims to be such a hard worker (Travelr712), you seem ready to throw in the towel and accept socialism. I also heard someone say that it is better to teach a man to fish than to give him a fish. People of little incentive and talent would prefer socialism, I would think. The kind of people that voted for Borax. I thank God that I have lived in a free, capitalist society most of my life and I feel sad for our children and their children.

• kevinunknown said on Jun 02, 2009....

  Javadewd- your inability to back up your arguments and your constant barrage of swearing, combined with personal insults, really dose show off your lack of intellect if you can’t keep up with what is a academic conversation without resorting to such obscenities then please do not take part in it.

  ALIENated- although I find some of your views towards socialism and socialists them self’s rather condescending I do have to admire the way you go about your arguments and i do respect your views on the subject however I do disagree with them.

• javadewd said on Jun 02, 2009....

  Hey, Kev, fuck you, you twat!

• ALIENated said on Jun 02, 2009....

  I pretty much just think out loud. Agree or not, I could care less. As long as it makes you think. We take too much for granted. We think our guys are the good guys when in fact most guys are sometimes good guys and sometimes bad guys. (Of course, there are some just plain bad guys.) I would like to think the BHO administration is doing the things they do with good intentions, without really intending to lead us into socialism, but, based on all the information about BHO's associations even before the election, it is hard to think they are not working with an agenda. Even his first pick for the Supreme Court is a racist bigot. I have learned not to worry too much about it all because I think there is a bigger agenda that is happening before our eyes, in our time. I firmly believe in God and firmly believe in the teachings of the Bible, but, in the back of my mind, I really did not think the end times would come about in my lifetime. Now I am seriously thinking we are in the end times now and BHO is just a puppet playing a part in it all. Just about everything he does and every word that pops out of his mouth further weakens America and dampens our spirit. As I have said in other posts, he is a miserable murderer (men like him have empowered men like Doctor Tiller, the baby killer) who hates white people (even if he is half white) and seems hell bent on demonizing and apologizing for every great thing that America has done in the past (under white presidents). He may have you fooled, as do the other socialists, but I am not fooled, and I pray a majority of Americans will not be fooled in the 2010 elections and the next presidential election, if there is one.

• travelr712 said on Jun 02, 2009....

  really jd, i mean, i know you're attracted to me and all, but i keep telling you, i just don't swing that way.
   
  you know alien, i get it now. you're an imperialist. you want america to rule the world. you want us to be the most powerful country on the planet and everyone else has to do what we tell them or we'll label them as terrorists and nuke them out of existance. that'll prove our might, and might makes right. god's on the side of the winner. and anyone who does not agree, who actually wants to give a voice, some power and some decision making to others is a socialist who's bringing about the end of the world. well, fortunately, people with the 'one percent' ideology are no longer in power, and people with more rational viewpoints are.

• javadewd said on Jun 02, 2009....

  Yes, Trav, we all fit in nice little boxes for you. Congratulations, you're still a tool...

• stopmediabias said on Jun 02, 2009....

  What is missing from this debate is the fact that Capitalism in the United States has been the greatest source of good for the entire world.  Socialism which has evolved into different forms of governments like Communism and Nazism has created the greatest sources of evil the world has ever seen. 

  Nearly every single instance of full or partial Socialism around the world and here in the United States has failed or fallen grossly short.  Compare private for-profit schools versus public schools, compare the Canadian healthcare system with our healthcare system.  The Democrat philosphy of tax and spend would never be swallowed by the majority of Americans if the majority of Americans were not lied to by a corrupt media and a corrupt leftist political party. 

• javadewd said on Jun 02, 2009....

  Yesterday when GM went tits up, I got a few interesting phone calls from liberal friends of mine asking where the nearest fallout shelter was... I guess it was a wake up call for a few people. Too bad it took this long!

• travelr712 said on Jun 02, 2009....

  well jd, i know you're trying hard, but you're really not being very original. i mean, you need to reach deeper and find something that hasn't been used in every b-comedy movie in the last 2 decades.
   
  let me give you a couple examples...
   
  look, i already asked the maggets off 6 dead dogs to fuck you, but they all said they already had dates. they all threw up in their mouths a little, if that's any help
   
  no, don't remove the stick from your ass, it's the only thing you've got that acts like a spine!
   
  you see? those are original with an element of pop culture so people can identify. work on it a little, you'll get there.
   
  smb, i'm not sure which you're saying is better, because public schools are a completely socialist organization, and at least with the canadian health care system, everyone can have some type of care instead of only those with enough money like in our system. also, what makes you think the right wing political party isn't just as corrupt?

• ALIENated said on Jun 02, 2009....

  It must be nice to add two and two and get whatever answer you like. I am an imperialist? Okie dokie. Enjoy the pig sty BHO is creating for you.

• travelr712 said on Jun 02, 2009....

  well alien, i just chose not to live my life being consumed by anger and hatred. you should try it sometime, it's very freeing. :-)

• javadewd said on Jun 03, 2009....

  Trav is your typical fucked-in-the-head brain-dead liberal post-modernist. Every day he simply redefines the word "is" to suit his purposes.
  
  Trav, why don't you just open your mind and shut your mouth, both are empty anyway. Just out of curiosity, are your parents siblings? You're the kind of man that is a blueprint for building an idiot. I'd like to leave you with one thought...Unfortunately I am not sure you have anywhere to put it! Yeah, yeah, keep talking, someday you might say something intelligent. When you were born, did they let your Mother out of her cage? You're so bent to the left that you make roundabouts look straight! I've come across aged rotting corpses that are less offensive than you are. You're a habit I'd like to kick... With both feet. So now we know why some mammals eat their children... Is that enough pop culture for you, ass munch?

• kevinunknown said on Jun 03, 2009....

  Smb—you say that “capitalism in the united states has been the greatest source of good for the entire world”. I say prove it!

  You also say that socialism has evolved into Communism and Nazism and, in your opinion brought grate evil onto the world. Just because America say’s communism is evil doesn’t mean it is. it is true that a number of communist regimes could be considered evil but look at China that’s not an evil country.

  Although the Nazis were officially called the National Socialist German Workers Party doesn’t mean they were socialists. The general consensus is that the Nazis’ were Fascists which has nothing to do with socialism and therefore Nazism is a form of Fascism  

  Just because it’s different doesn’t mean its evil that’s what am trying to say. Socialism is ok and so is capitalism both have their pro’s and con’s and for me personally I prefer socialism because is believe it to be a fairer system.  

• stopmediabias said on Jun 03, 2009....

  Kev-Whenever their is a massive disaster who usually ponies up the most aid?  Look at the 2004 tsunami.  America beat back Nazism which nearly took over the entire world.  Our capitalist system has created the most wealth and prosperity than any other country.  Even the poorest of the poor in America are miles ahead of poor in other countries. 

  How many people has communism put in grave?  China IS an evil country, without any research I can point to the Burmese genocide as a good example.  Look at other communist regimes like North Korea, their leaders live in luxury while hundreds of thousands of their own people die from starvation. 

  As far as socialism I said it evolves into evil governments.

  If you think socialism is fair tell me how is fair to redistribute wealth?  Why should the wealthy who worked to get wealthy have to pay even so much as dime to support people who didn't earn it.  Socialism enslaves people with complacency because why be innovative or motivated to grow if the money you work for is being taken by the government for bloated bureacracies.  Look at the droves of people who have died in Canada because they had to wait weeks to see a doctor.  Socialism either completely fails or falls way short.

  The greatest engine for wealth and prosperity is the free market backed up by a Democracy with a government that lets people grow and keep the money they earned. 

• ALIENated said on Jun 03, 2009....

  I wonder if that even merits an answer. The fact that the recent financial crises in American sent the whole world's economy into a tailspin should tell you something. The world depends on, and keys off, the United States. And, as SMB says, stop the aid that the U.S. gives other countries and watch them go under. Sometimes I wish America was not so great, then maybe some of the millions of immigrants fighting their way here would stay at home. That may be the one bright spot in this financial downturn -- maybe some of the illegals will go home. I am sure most of them are for anything-I-can-get socialism.

• javadewd said on Jun 03, 2009....

  Kev, it isn't grate evil, it's GREAT EVIL!
  
  China isn't an evil country... Human rights are finally on the rise... No harm in that mate. (lol) Pay no attention to Tiananmen Square, that was just a fluke, right?
  
  Russia was officially called the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, but it wasn't a union, nor were their communist states any sort of republics, either.
  
  We also have a "Fairness Doctrine" trying to emerge in our legislation that will destroy free conservative talk radio... But is has such a pretty name.
  
  My point here is that you're an idiot. Evil people will change their name just enough to dupe people into believing that they are benign enough to take over your property and liberty. The Nazis were no different. If you think just because they had a cute pet name that they were any less of a threat, then you're simply a bed-wetter. Fascism versus Nationalism versus Socialism versus Communism versus Egalitarianism versus Satanism... They're all belief systems that when used by the most evil of people and/or national leaders creates yet another candidate on this earth ripe for extermination by fire. Pick your poison!
  
  You fucking Brits don't even have decent theology over there anymore. I've heard about all your butt-fucking sessions in the churches over there, homo priests, marginalizing the bible, making the ten commandments out to be toilet paper to wipe you arses on. Do you all even have any moral fiber left? I refuse to take advice from a bunch of post-modernist fudge packers on how my country ought to run. Last time I checked we broke away from you fuckers for a reason!
  

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