• silverwhisper said on Sep 05, 2006....

  personally, i agree. :>
  
  ed
  

• hottmom said on Sep 05, 2006....

  Why is prostitution illegal? I think it is because they don’t know what to do taxes wise with prostitution.
  
  
  I don’t have a problem with it.
  

• Bordy said on Sep 06, 2006....

  Solid point SR, but look at some of the other countries out there... I still can't figure out if it was legal in Dubai or Singapore, but it was rampant, and unhealthy for them. Then again, there is a chance that it was legal but unregulated, but that is unlikely given the clean reputation of both of those countries.
  
  I think it would work here though, if only because of our penchant for regulation.
  

• silverwhisper said on Sep 06, 2006....

  bordy: penchant for regulation? i don't know what you mean by that!
  
  [lights up a cigarette, strolls over to a liquor store for some wine and flashes ID, then promptly goes to day-trade]
  
  :>
  
  ed
  

• Bordy said on Sep 06, 2006....

  I believe, in this situation, I should be smacking you with some sort of fish.. a mackerel? A flounder?
  
  Troutsmack!
  

• lidstrom82 said on Sep 06, 2006....

  I think the reason why prostitution is such a danger that it's illegalized is human selfishness. When you pay money for anything, you "own" it for a period of time. Sometimes we abuse our ownership of it: we'll buy a fast car and crash it by accident, we'll blow money on booze and get hopelessly drunk, we'll rent a movie and never return it... :)
  
  The point is, someone who pays for prostitution all too often abuses the power they have over the prostitute, because they held up their end of the deal by paying.
  
  Prostitution isn't nearly as harmless as it can appear to be. In many third world countries, it is forced upon children as young as 4. Kids who are abducted and taken from city to city, with all their needs met and taken care of as long as they comply to performing all sorts of sex acts. They will travel to big cities to "work" major events (such as the World Cup, or the Olympics), and have their freedoms taken away.
  
  What about pornography? A guy does what he wants with a magazine or an online video, but what about the guys who expect their girlfriends/wives to be just as convenient and subservient as a centerfold? Sex as a business appeals to lust and selfishness, and there's almost always some kind of inconvenience for it. But the girl getting beaten and raped while a man videotapes it and broadcasts it on the Internet as child porn finds nothing convenient about it.
  
  Perhaps there is one more point to make: sex is at its best when it's paired with intimacy and commitment. Neither are at a premium with prostitution, or porn. Plus, sex in a committed relationship calls us to be unselfish because we're meeting the needs of someone else, not just ourselves. There's no such luck with prostitution. It's so dangerous for women...those who are drugged repeatedly to get an addiction (and therefore dependent upon the pimp) and beaten and turned out by a pimp, desperate for a fix and willing to do anything to get it.
  
  There's no doubt sex is exciting, especially if it's so easy to obtain. But in the end, prostitution is cheap sex. It might not be hurting two respectable people, but it sure shortchanges what sex COULD be for a woman paid to give it like a job, and a man who buys it like a DVD.
  

• lidstrom82 said on Sep 06, 2006....

  I think the reason why prostitution is such a danger that it's illegalized is human selfishness. When you pay money for anything, you "own" it for a period of time. Sometimes we abuse our ownership of it: we'll buy a fast car and crash it by accident, we'll blow money on booze and get hopelessly drunk, we'll rent a movie and never return it... :)
  
  The point is, someone who pays for prostitution all too often abuses the power they have over the prostitute, because they held up their end of the deal by paying.
  
  Prostitution isn't nearly as harmless as it can appear to be. In many third world countries, it is forced upon children as young as 4. Kids who are abducted and taken from city to city, with all their needs met and taken care of as long as they comply to performing all sorts of sex acts. They will travel to big cities to "work" major events (such as the World Cup, or the Olympics), and have their freedoms taken away.
  
  What about pornography? A guy does what he wants with a magazine or an online video, but what about the guys who expect their girlfriends/wives to be just as convenient and subservient as a centerfold? Sex as a business appeals to lust and selfishness, and there's almost always some kind of inconvenience for it. But the girl getting beaten and raped while a man videotapes it and broadcasts it on the Internet as child porn finds nothing convenient about it.
  
  Perhaps there is one more point to make: sex is at its best when it's paired with intimacy and commitment. Neither are at a premium with prostitution, or porn. Plus, sex in a committed relationship calls us to be unselfish because we're meeting the needs of someone else, not just ourselves. There's no such luck with prostitution. It's so dangerous for women...those who are drugged repeatedly to get an addiction (and therefore dependent upon the pimp) and beaten and turned out by a pimp, desperate for a fix and willing to do anything to get it.
  
  There's no doubt sex is exciting, especially if it's so easy to obtain. But in the end, prostitution is cheap sex. It might not be hurting two respectable people, but it sure shortchanges what sex COULD be for a woman paid to give it like a job, and a man who buys it like a DVD.
  

• Bordy said on Sep 06, 2006....

  Holy double post Batman!
  
  Sorry. Good post tho, Lidstrom, enjoyed it as always.
  

• silverwhisper said on Sep 06, 2006....

  lidstrom: you're speaking of forms of prostitution that would be illegal in this country. those examples therefore do not hold. further, legalized prostitution would not force slave status upon the employees.
  
  please stop trying to associated porn and rape. there is no causal link b/n porn consumption and rape. there is almost certainly a correlation, but arguing that porn causes rape is simply beneath you.
  
  and arguing that sex is best in [situation] is quite simply not addressing the point: your examples are again based upon situations in which prostitution is illegal. while i respect that you don't like prostitution, every single situation, every argument against is based upon behaviors surrounding its illegality.
  
  ed
  

• mr_right14 said on Sep 06, 2006....

  If prostitution will be legal, how they are going to pay the tax? How will it be regulated. Prostitution will be treated as a profession.
  
  How about the health and the diseases? Is there gonna be a license for being a prostitue? How we'll know their service is as supposed to be? No AIDS or HIV and any other diseases may be transferred through sex.
  
  Full control and several laws must be amended to secure the heath, safety, service, etc. blah blah blah.
  
  Mr_RiGhT
  

• InterplanetJanet said on Sep 06, 2006....

  What about Nevada? Prostitution is legal in that state; it is also heavily regulated. Regulated prostitution should be the norm, because when it is treated as a vice, it will be abused.
  
  I read a statistic that 60% of the prostitutes in Newark, NJ are HIV positive. WOW! Very few, if not none, of the state-regulated prostitutes in Nevada are HIV positive. Why? Because the state regulates the bordellos and they can freely exist and compete with one another. Having a high percentage of HIV positive "employees" would probably turn away clientele. The state regulations require monthly blood tests, and the bordellos are frequently inspected by health department officials. I think that NV has the right idea about prostitution.
  
  Legalizing prostitution may also serve to protect prostitutes. Outside of Nevada, prostitutes are not protected from abuse; in Nevada, prostitutes can look to the police for protection from violence.
  
  Plus, what would you rather do, risk getting arrested for soliciting, or do it legally and safely? I don't think there would be much of a market for underground prostitution if a legal (and safe) alternative was offered. Sure, there will always be pedophiles, and other criminals, but the large majority of people look to prostition for sex. Maybe with regulation prostitutes can earn proper wages.
  
  Paying a woman for sex (if that's how you like it) is no different than paying a woman to clean your house. You can't force someone to clean your house for free, but you can pay someone to do it. As long as the exchange is voluntary and consensual, it's not the government's business to interfere.
  

• secretlife said on Sep 06, 2006....

  You guys crack me up-
  Holy double post batman..LOL.
  Bordy I had no idea you were a caped crusader.
  
  Oh oh....prostitution - it should have been legal long ago.
  I really thought this would happen in the 80's.
  
  I was always mixed up about why porn is legal but prostitution isn't. I mean if you bring a camera with you and film the act, does that magically make it legal?
  
  I'm just sayin-
  

• InterplanetJanet said on Sep 06, 2006....

  LMAO@SL...you know what i mean...hahahahahaha
  

• lidstrom82 said on Sep 06, 2006....

  Whoa, holy double post batman, indeed :)
  
  Whoa again to you, silver: my point wasn't that porn causes rape. My point is that porn can appeal to selfishness, because it's instant gratification, and sometimes a committed relationship doesn't provide that. I would not make the assumption that porn causes rape (you're right, that is below me...I didn't do it), but in many cases it is partly responsible - Ted Bundy, anyone?
  
  And just because my examples of the "dark side" of porn are illegal in America, there are still Americans consuming such porn, funding it, benefitting from it. Mostly, it's called "sex tourism" - Americans can afford to go overseas and stay a few days to have sex with children forced into prostitution.
  
  Again, my point is that paying for sex does have dark consequences, but not in all cases. For the rest, it's arguable that "committed relationship sex" is more satisfying than "paid sex".
  
  secretlife, you've got a great point. Why is porn legal but prostitution isn't? It's like porn can encourage prostitution, but prostitution isn't allowed? It's probably best to have both or neither one, because one without the other is strange. Although, porn is more of an individual thing, and naked bodies on a video can't give someone STDs, or put the prostitute at risk of abuse.
  

• silverwhisper said on Sep 06, 2006....

  lidstrom, sorry for having misread you. :> but your child porn example doesn't hold up: all of that stuff is illegal anyway and not related to prostitution. you're muddying the waters by associating porn and prostitution in this way. please don't do that.
  
  ed
  

• lidstrom82 said on Sep 06, 2006....

  Ah I think i understand...the stuff I'm talking about is overseas and extreme and illegal, but that's not the "type" of prostitution that's in discussion right now? We're talking about the legalized kind in Nevada, the tasteful kind where no woman gets abused and it's all in good fun?
  
  Has anyone considered the fact that prostitution is illegal because many consumers aren't able to handle it safely? If you pay money to do what you want with someone, that's often too much power. I'm sorry, but you can't have a discussion about prostitution without discussing all its aspects, silver. If we're wondering why it's not legal, we have to take a look at other countries and for it's ugly side in order to understand why. It's not muddying waters, it's telling the truth. We can't pretend women don't get beaten by prostitution. I do understand that some paid sex does happen without incident. But we also live in a world where teens are growing up using (and sometimes abusing) prostitutes in the Grand Theft Auto games. That's just one example of many - at some point, there is a conception that prostitutes don't deserve respect - a mentality that can be devastating to them.
  

• silverwhisper said on Sep 06, 2006....

  lidstrom, you're being very, very peculiar about this. you don't pay a hooker to do whatever you want to her. you pay her for a specific service. you're familiar, i trust, w/ that? that hookers charge different rates for different services?
  
  it's completely muddying the waters, lidstrom. if i didn't know better, i'd wonder if someone else accessed your account. b/c frankly, you're behaving most uncharacteristically like a doofus.
  
  you cannot compare liquor sales to the various distillers and breweries to liquor sales to the mob during prohibition. you know this. and if you don't, you really ought to.
  
  you're constantly trying to make an apples: oranges comparison. you're being a complete and utter doofus, lidstrom. please stop before you begin to harm my generally good opinion of your intelligence.
  
  ed
  

• silverwhisper said on Sep 06, 2006....

  lidstrom, you're being very, very peculiar about this. you don't pay a hooker to do whatever you want to her. you pay her for a specific service. you're familiar, i trust, w/ that? that hookers charge different rates for different services?
  
  it's completely muddying the waters, lidstrom. if i didn't know better, i'd wonder if someone else accessed your account. b/c frankly, you're behaving most uncharacteristically like a doofus.
  
  you cannot compare liquor sales to the various distillers and breweries to liquor sales to the mob during prohibition. you know this. and if you don't, you really ought to.
  
  you're constantly trying to make an apples: oranges comparison. you're being a complete and utter doofus, lidstrom. please stop before you begin to harm my generally good opinion of your intelligence.
  
  ed
  

• Bordy said on Sep 06, 2006....

  Serious echo in this blog.
  

• InterplanetJanet said on Sep 07, 2006....

  echo...
  
  ...echo...
  
  ......echo...
  
  [hey, I can hear my voice...lol]
  

• silverwhisper said on Sep 07, 2006....

  guys, am i missing something in lidstrom's response?
  
  ed
  

• lidstrom82 said on Sep 07, 2006....

  I appreciate having the label of "doofus", because there's a lot worse.
  
  No, silver, this isn't someone else accessing my account. Perhaps our views on the matter really ARE very different. But I assure you mine are no less valid or informed than yours.
  
  Most of my information about the negative aspects of the sex industry come from the church - not as part of an agenda, but to explain that lives are hurt, marriages are devastated, and families are strainezd from the effects of such things. I am not assuming that all people who pay for prostitution (or porn) are horrible, abuse a prostitute 100% of the time, or will die a horrible death by gasoline fight accident.
  
  What I am saying, silver, is that what happens in other countries might be a good indicator of why prostitution is largely illegal in the US. However, illegal forced prostitution DOES occur in the United States, just not as prevalent as, say, Cambodia or Thailand.
  
  I honestly believe that legalizing prostitution is a step backward for our country and for society, because too many men let the sex go to their heads. There is such a thing as a sex addiction. This doesn't always result in abuse, but it can make a man (or woman, though men are more prone to ill effects due to their visual nature and generally quicker sex drive) more selfish sexually - with instant gratification, sometimes a girlfriend or wife seems inconvenient, and prostitution has no strings attached - you pay for services for a certain amount of time, and then you're done.
  
  Without the abuse, and without women being threatened, prostitution appears attractive as a business and as a pastime. However, I do believe that it cheapens sex. This has nothing to do with the illegality of prostitution, but it is valid. Sex IS better in a committed relationship - if it weren't, we'd have more prostitution and much less relationships/marriages, don't you think?
  
  But getting back to legalization of prostitution, it seems that although porn is already legal and that there's a double standard, it is probably best to keep it as is. Personally speaking, I've never seen the sex industry do any favors for anyone I've known (no pun intended).
  
  Where do you stand on this matter, silver? I have seen your disagreements with my points, but I am not too clear on your own. Perhaps that would bring clearer understanding if I knew what you believe about the subject, not just about my responses.
  

• lidstrom82 said on Sep 07, 2006....

  I appreciate having the label of "doofus", because there's a lot worse.
  
  No, silver, this isn't someone else accessing my account. Perhaps our views on the matter really ARE very different. But I assure you mine are no less valid or informed than yours.
  
  Most of my information about the negative aspects of the sex industry come from the church - not as part of an agenda, but to explain that lives are hurt, marriages are devastated, and families are strained from the effects of such things. I am not assuming that all people who pay for prostitution (or porn) are horrible, abuse a prostitute 100% of the time, or will die a horrible death by gasoline fight accident.
  
  What I am saying, silver, is that what happens in other countries might be a good indicator of why prostitution is largely illegal in the US. However, illegal forced prostitution DOES occur in the United States, just not as prevalent as, say, Cambodia or Thailand.
  
  I honestly believe that legalizing prostitution is a step backward for our country and for society, because too many men let the sex go to their heads. There is such a thing as a sex addiction. This doesn't always result in abuse, but it can make a man (or woman, though men are more prone to ill effects due to their visual nature and generally quicker sex drive) more selfish sexually - with instant gratification, sometimes a girlfriend or wife seems inconvenient, and prostitution has no strings attached - you pay for services for a certain amount of time, and then you're done.
  
  Without the abuse, and without women being threatened, prostitution appears attractive as a business and as a pastime. However, I do believe that it cheapens sex. This has nothing to do with the illegality of prostitution, but it is valid. Sex IS better in a committed relationship - if it weren't, we'd have more prostitution and much less relationships/marriages, don't you think?
  
  But getting back to legalization of prostitution, it seems that although porn is already legal and that there's a double standard, it is probably best to keep it as is. Personally speaking, I've never seen the sex industry do any favors for anyone I've known (no pun intended).
  
  Where do you stand on this matter, silver? I have seen your disagreements with my points, but I am not too clear on your own. Perhaps that would bring clearer understanding if I knew what you believe about the subject, not just about my responses.
  

• lidstrom82 said on Sep 07, 2006....

  I appreciate having the label of "doofus", because there's a lot worse.
  
  No, silver, this isn't someone else accessing my account. Perhaps our views on the matter really ARE very different. But I assure you mine are no less valid or informed than yours.
  
  Most of my information about the negative aspects of the sex industry come from the church - not as part of an agenda, but to explain that lives are hurt, marriages are devastated, and families are strained from the effects of such things. I am not assuming that all people who pay for prostitution (or porn) are horrible, abuse a prostitute 100% of the time, or will die a horrible death by gasoline fight accident.
  
  What I am saying, silver, is that what happens in other countries might be a good indicator of why prostitution is largely illegal in the US. However, illegal forced prostitution DOES occur in the United States, just not as prevalent as, say, Cambodia or Thailand.
  
  I honestly believe that legalizing prostitution is a step backward for our country and for society, because too many men let the sex go to their heads. There is such a thing as a sex addiction. This doesn't always result in abuse, but it can make a man (or woman, though men are more prone to ill effects due to their visual nature and generally quicker sex drive) more selfish sexually - with instant gratification, sometimes a girlfriend or wife seems inconvenient, and prostitution has no strings attached - you pay for services for a certain amount of time, and then you're done.
  
  Without the abuse, and without women being threatened, prostitution appears attractive as a business and as a pastime. However, I do believe that it cheapens sex. This has nothing to do with the illegality of prostitution, but it is valid. Sex IS better in a committed relationship - if it weren't, we'd have more prostitution and much less relationships/marriages, don't you think?
  
  But getting back to legalization of prostitution, it seems that although porn is already legal and that there's a double standard, it is probably best to keep it as is. Personally speaking, I've never seen the sex industry do any favors for anyone I've known (no pun intended).
  
  Where do you stand on this matter, silver? I have seen your disagreements with my points, but I am not too clear on your own. Perhaps that would bring clearer understanding if I knew what you believe about the subject, not just about my responses.
  

• Dazlak said on Sep 07, 2006....

  I live in a country where prostitution is legal.. that is if no 3rd party is making money out of it and it not the only job that the prostitute has.
  
  It is frowned upon and people think it is downgrading to the person which is doing it.
  
  You can never stop prostitution. You never know what will happen if two person get together and one of them decides to come up with a proposition.
  
  But to legalise it? Or to put it into regulation?
  
  Is that what you want? To have state funded whorehouses? Or to have legal whorehouses where a 3rd party is making money out of it?
  

• silverwhisper said on Sep 07, 2006....

  will respond more fully when time permits lidstrom. apologies for keeping you waiting, sir.
  
  dazlak: who's talking about state funded whorehouses?
  
  ed
  

• Bordy said on Sep 07, 2006....

  Dazlak, where are you anyway? I know somebody said they were from Singapore, just can't remember who.
  

• lidstrom82 said on Sep 07, 2006....

  Dazlak, the "3rd party making money" is an interesting point that hasn't been touched upon yet. Did you guys know that the sex industry is a major source of revenue for organized crime? What if they are often the 3rd party that Dazlak speaks of? Or corrupt government officials? You just never know, man. The sex industry makes over 5 billion dollars - how much of that is honest money? I don't know, but it certainly isn't all of it. Dazlak raises some good questions: do we want legalized whorehouses? Japan has "love hotels" that are for sexual rendevous purposes, but they are looked down upon as a place that no one wants in their neighborhood. The U.S. seems more positive about strip clubs, but legalized prostitution is NOT a family-friendly affair.
  

• silverwhisper said on Sep 08, 2006....

  lidstrom: my view is that the criminalization of a thing makes it necessarily a tool of criminals. in this country we saw how it was responsible for the spectacular growth of the mafia. that prohibition was a horrible, horrible mistake is a basic historic fact. i know that for some sects of christianity, drinking alcohol is forbidden (e.g., baptists), and while i think that restriction flies in the face of what we know of the bible (water was turned into what other beverage?), i also understand that this is their belief. such groups are free to rail against the evil of alcoholism and heaven knows there are many. i understand that argument.
  
  where i get puzzled however is when people argue that improper use of a commodity is a valid argument apropos of its criminalization. not merely argue that people should/should not use the commodity—that i fully support—but that it should not be available to anyone. in this regard, it’s a lot like gun control, which seeks to penalize those who would own weapons due to the actions of criminals while such citizens have not been guilty of any wrongdoing.
  
  yet this is precisely what you are doing in this discussion, lidstrom. you are comparing an illegal situation to a legal one. if you want to compare things meaningfully, use most of the state of nevada, or the netherlands as your examples, where prostitution is legal and has been for some time.
  
  i’m increasingly frustrated w/ our exchange on this subject b/c you continue to trumpet invalid arguments which are based upon flabby logic allow me to demonstrate:
  
  sex slavery
  this isn’t prostitution and you should know this full well. in sex slavery, the enslaved person does not profit at all from any sexual activity: in prostitution, the prostitute does—less the pimp’s cut anyway, but you get the idea. you are combining this w/ prostitution when it obviously does not apply. this argument isn’t merely flabby, lidstrom: it’s morbidly obese.
  
  sex addiction
  this is not the fault of prostitution. is it another vehicle through which an addiction can be fed? certainly so. but then again, arguing that a thing should be criminalized based upon the actions of addicts makes no sense whatsoever. i like to drive fast. i live in a state where many people do the same. does this mean that my state government should criminalize operating a motor vehicle? of course not! sex addiction is a personal problem and requires support and therapy to overcome. a personal problem does not require a government solution unless you want to legislate morality. and that path is clearly problematic. this argument therefore is also morbidly obese.
  
  harm to prostitutes
  prostitutes are harmed by both johns and pimps: by pimps, because the pimp has a need to control the prostitute, who in turn needs the pimp as protection from johns. violence is also aimed at prostitutes by johns. this is incontestable. however, legalizing prostitution would make it a lot easier for prostitutes to report crimes and aid prosecution of such scum as the perpetrators of prostitute-targeted violence. as prosecution rises, the behavior will be exhibited less and less frequently—right now, violence against prostitutes occurs in a largely consequence-free environment. so legalizing prostitution would in fact ameliorate this.
  
  if you wanted to argue that it cheapens sex: OK, that i can accept. if you want to argue that it’s immoral: while i don’t agree, i can also respect that stance. if you want to argue that you simply don’t like it: that’s perfectly reasonable, i think. really, if you want to articulate an anti-prostitution argument on any grounds at all, i’d be most interested in continuing our conversation.
  
  but i believe i’ve demonstrated my contention that you’ve not yet advanced a single argument that makes sense, lidstrom.
  
  ed
  

• Dazlak said on Sep 08, 2006....

  I am from a country in europe.
  
  Ok.. maybe it is bit too much to say state funded whorehouse.. but do you want a legalised whorehouses?
  

• silverwhisper said on Sep 08, 2006....

  dazlak: they do need a place to work. i fail to see the reason this is a problem. ?
  
  ed
  

• lidstrom82 said on Sep 08, 2006....

  Silver, thank you for clarifying your position on the matter. It was a bit fraying to see that you disagreed, called me a doofus, and assailed my position without effectively expressing your own. Thank you for following through.
  
  You are a master of worldly wisdom. It has its strengths.
  
  My whole "argument" is simply that we can't accept prostitution as legal when we see the negative consequences - it's just not that easy. It's agreed that sex addiction is a personal problem that needs therapy - but what fuels that addiction in the first place? If not porn or prostitution, then what?
  
  I'm not debunking your thoughts, silver, but you are wrong if you believe my arguments make no sense. You might see me as judging prostitution as bad by looking at only it's worst parts, but I could just as easily called you a doofus for overlooking that those worst parts just might have something to do with why it's illegal in the U.S. But I have not called you a doofus in return. I'm not offended, even if you haven't shown me the same common courtesy.
  
  I think it comes down to this: you want to discuss the matter on purely logical, legal, political grounds. I, on the other hand, am feeling for the people who are getting hurt or, at the very least, settling for cheap sex. This is where worldly wisdom fails. There is a loving God that is beyond worldly wisdom, who has much better plans and intentions for prostitutes and their customers than they would settle for themselves. If that is offensive to some, go ahead and do what you want. But there is better out there.
  
  Just because my position isn't readily understandable, doesn't mean it's morbidly obese and has no solid basis. My intention wasn't to say that the government should infringe on the rights of people, or that all prostitutes are beaten, drugged to addiction, or forced to give service against their will.
  
  Thailand has outlawed prostitution as well, and yet it runs rampant. Despite the "law", there are obvious signs of prostitution. How can we guarantee that prostitutes will be protected, or are consenting to being one, whether prostitution is legal in the country or not?
  
  Silver, it's not my intention to debate this with you. This will be my last post on the subject, really because there's nothing else to say about it. Prostitution is not the cause of bad behavior, but rather it ATTRACTS negative behavior - why else are porn mags hidden on the top/bottom shelf of the magazine rack? Or strip clubs tucked away in seedy areas of town, or protested by members of the community? Why do most people object to seeing prostitutes working the street in their neighborhood (or even major cities, where they'd rather see a sporting event, work, or go to dinner rather than seeing women sell themselves?)? I do not believe these instances are the result of sexual repression in human history; I believe that there are too many dangers and negative effects to justify making it legal. Sex in itself isn't wrong, but when perverted from its original intent into a business, it loses its meaning and opens itself to the corruption that plagues all businesses. Sex is a personal, sacred thing, not just a weapon against a partner, not something you only share with a magazine or internet page, and certainly not cause to sell one's body to fulfill the desires of a stranger.
  

• silverwhisper said on Sep 09, 2006....

  lidstrom: my thanks for our compliments but i assure you, i am no master of any wisdom at all. i am merely a fisher of ideas.
  
  when you speak as to whether something should have a particular legal status, it's impossible for me to treat seriously any arguments that do not satisfactorily address the law and politics.
  
  one last thing: as to my conduct...lidstrom, my calling you a doofus is hardly an insult. it was intended casually. if that bothers you i apologize and shan't use it again. but as to calling your logic flabby: sorry lidstrom but sometimes, the truth hurts and i make absolutely no apology for it. i could i suppose have contented myself w/ having said "your points do not logically follow", but that wouldn't have expressed anywhere near my degree of surprise.
  
  anyway: consider investigating the prostitution-related crime records for nevada or the netherlands. that information may serve you well.
  
  ed
  

• NorthWestRepublic said on Sep 09, 2006....

  Well it is illegal because it is a moral issue.
  

• bloc said on Sep 19, 2006....

  I somehow missed this post until now, but I think we agree for once ;)
  

• rarity121 said on Sep 21, 2006....

  I agree wholeheartedly. Please read my post on becoming an escort. Two parties make the choice, and both leave happy if done right. And if neither are happy, then they shouldn't do it again.
  

• gracestar said on Oct 04, 2006....

  I live about 7 miles from the Bunny Ranch in Mound House Nevada, but the brothel that pays taxes for my county is the Wild horse. They contribute about 250K a year in taxes to our small county. This helps our schools, and our community.Prostitution is not legal within the city limits, Thats why most brothel's are just outside town. I moved to Nevada because I still have rights here. I can smoke almost anywhere,
  except some restaurants, I can drink 24 hrs a day if I choose to, I can gamble 24 hrs a day if I want to. I could go the brothels if I want, but there's nothing there for me. The point for me is I still have rights here. I hope it never changes......
  I guess I'm not as conservative as I thought.
  

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• anonymous said on Oct 05, 2006....

  sean: this is silver. i'm deliberately commenting anonymously so you can block the user when you see this if you have a mind to do so. this jackass is showing up everywhere lately.
  
  ed
  

• StrangeOne said on Oct 06, 2006....

  gracestar - that's cool, you are a conservative in the old-school sense - in this day you'd be called a libertarian, not a conservative. Now that conservatism has been hijacked by religious fundamentalists, it's not what it used to be.
  
  Although unfortunately Nevada is still not as free as it could be, even though it's freer than other states. I still couldn't sit around smoking pot there all day (legally).
  
  sean - I think plain and simple, prostitution is illegal in this country because of the puritanical basis on which this country was founded. I often feel like this country teeters on the verge of a Christian theocracy.
  

• AliCat said on Mar 01, 2007....

  I have miixed beliefs on this issue..personally I don't give a fuck whos paying who for sex..maybe women are bought anyways just in different ways..i see it all the time with my own friends...but as long as it's not my husband paying these bitches for sex i really dont care..so i guess yes it could be legal and it woudln't bother ,e...

• lfbno7 said on Jun 09, 2007....

  Prostitution is illegal because we are governed by morons.

• StupidGenius said on Jul 17, 2007....

  Its legal to have sex with a girl and pay her if you film it with the intenrion of selling it. It is illegal to have sex with a girl and pay her without a video camera.

  Makes no sense. Holland has the right idea. It legal. policed. Taxed and they even have a union.

  SG

   

   

• lfbno7 said on Jul 22, 2007....

  well i think it would be better if it was free.  personally.  i never went to a prostitute though.  i don't know what it would be like.  i'm not easy with strangers.

• lidstrom82 said on Jul 23, 2007....

  Anyone consider that customers of prostitutes suffer from loneliness, relational issues, sexual-related addictions, or a lack of morality?
  
  Sure, the woman can consent, but is it beneficial to her body, or her mind?
  
  It bodes ill for neighborhoods with strip clubs. Why do we think legal prostitution would make things better?
  
  On a purely legal standpoint, prostitution can be policed, laws enacted, etc.
  
  On a personal standpoint, paying for a prostitute can be a cheap thrill, or for a celebrity, a high-priced escort service.
  
  StrangeOne, I don't want a Christian theocracy, but I am a conservative Christian. Faith should not be a political regime. But Islam overtakes by forcefulness and threat of death even, and America needs to uphold its roots as a nation founded by biblical principles in order to stop the spread of Islamic influence, especially if it condones the destruction of Americans and Israelis.
  
  If those principles helped make our country great, then what else does the Bible say? It says prostitution is sinful. That does not make the prostitute evil (Jesus spent time with prostitutes and tax collectors, because although they were most looked down upon, they were thus most in need of forgiveness and a change from their lives of wickedness and corruption), but their profession, and those they pleasure, are not beneficial for either of them.
  
  Simply put, I don't think God created human beings to rent themselves out for money, so that others can merely look at them like sex objects. It's hard for some to respect a person who gives away their dignity and gives their most precious possession as a business.
  
  So it could be made legal and managed carefully, true. But morally, it is bankrupt because it is detrimental to the prostitute and the customer. Remember, some children in third world countries don't have the choice to prostitute themselves. They're kept hidden, around the world, and forced into prostitution, and in that case they are being exploited for their forced ability to pleasure others. It all points to the lust of mankind, and some men are not as respectful as proponents of prostitution realize, or admit.
  
  Yes, forced prostitution is not an accurate picture of prostitution as a whole, but it doesn't need to be to point out that it harms its participants more than it pleasures them.
  

• silverwhisper said on Jul 23, 2007....

  sex is someone's most precious possession? i'd argue that there's a whole lot more important in a person than our sex, lidstrom.
  
  ed

• lidstrom82 said on Jul 23, 2007....

  Sorry, I wasn't clear, silver. I was referring to our bodies. There is a whole lot more to us than merely our bodies, but that's the thing with sex as a business: it removes the heart and mind out of sex into mindless, easy pleasure. I'd argue that sex is most enjoyable in a committed relationship (of which marriage is the most committed; living together can often connotate a closer relationship than is actually there, as GrapeKoolAid found out, sadly). You can enjoy a person fully knowing they are committed to you, and there for more than just the sex, but when you need support after falling down, failing, making a mistake.
  
  Lots of guys lack the relational responsibility to establish such committed relationships, and it's easier to masturbate to a centerfold or a porn video online, pay for a prostitute, or fly overseas to deflower an 8 year old Cambodian girl, than it is to nurture a loving relationship in which sex is actually best.
  

• silverwhisper said on Jul 23, 2007....

  lidstrom, we're in complete disagreement on the matter at a most fundamental level.
  
  the body and the self aren't the same thing IMV, and honestly, i think that the entire disagreement hinges on one thing: sex isn't always a big deal to me. it can be quite a lot, but that isn't a view that i think you're prepared to accept, well, ever.
  
  ed

• lidstrom82 said on Jul 23, 2007....

  Yeah, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, silver.
  
  Just to clarify my view a bit, I believe our bodies are our most prized possession. Without them, we have nothing to interact with the world with. I believe we have a soul, and that is connected into something as important as lovemaking, even if we just have sex casually. Even if we make no big deal out of it.
  
  I once heard it this way. If you take two pieces of construction paper and glue them together with Elmer's, then pull them apart, you end up with a bit of one color paper stuck to the other. The paper has left its mark on the other. If the same is true with our souls in having sex, then we'll have a lot of other colors on our piece of paper, so to speak. But more importantly, we lose a bit of ourselves in the process.
  
  Does sex steal your soul? No way! But sharing so much of yourself with more and more not only takes the meaning out of sex after awhile, but it gives you less to offer to someone that you haven't already given to another. And with that, the precious act of sex becomes a rite of passage for relationships with intimacy but little commitment.
  
  Of course, if you take another view of it entirely, sex is not as big a deal as the view I just shared. But is it a good thing that it is more common, and less than being a treasured thing that we should save for committed relationships? That is my view. I'll leave it at that, silver. I've just seen too many relationships ruined by a skewed view of sex.
  

• silverwhisper said on Jul 23, 2007....

  lidstrom quoth:
  i've just seen too many relationships ruined by a skewed view of sex.

  
  and i've seen too many people ruined by a skewed view of sex. :>
  
  ed

• lidstrom82 said on Jul 23, 2007....

  lol, like puritan-like, stifled views of how sex is bad, evil? Oh yeah, the other end of the spectrum is damaging, too. But I have no regrets about only sharing sex with my wife.
  

• silverwhisper said on Jul 23, 2007....

  i knew i wouldn't have to elaborate. :>
  
  i think you and i just have a different view of where the middle of that spectrum is, and how narrow or broad it may be.
  
  ed

• SeanRenaud said on Jul 23, 2007....

  Anyone consider that customers of prostitutes suffer from loneliness, relational issues, sexual-related addictions, or a lack of morality?

   

  It’s likely they suffer from loneliness, the vast majority of people who habitually call sex hotlines supposedly fall in that category.  So what?  Relational issues?  Define.  Sexual related addictions?  Unless you are having so much (or trying) to have so much sex that it is actually damaging the rest of your life I can’t care.  A lack or morality?  The idea that sex is immoral is one of the most damaging ideas in history.

   

  
  Sure, the woman can consent, but is it beneficial to her body, or her mind?

   

  From a purely objective and real world view, pretty much yeah.  Sex releases endorphins that make you feel happy, it’s also physical and keeps you in better shape.  If prostitution were legalized there would be heavy testing for all STD’s so it would be like porn stars where statically you are less likely to catch something from one of them than from some random person at the bar.

   

  There is very little proof that strip clubs damage neighborhoods.  The fact is that people like you will only let strip clubs open in neighborhoods that already have problems. 

   

  We aren’t talking about militant Islam so I’m only glossing over that as it relates to your point.  The Bible is filled with all kinds of things that aren’t close to logical or right..  It does say that prostitution is illegal, it also says you should stone adulters and disobedient children.  Jesus says if you look at a woman with lust in your heart you should pluck out your own eye.  Course you’ll rationalize around what he said/meant then remind me that he’s all about forgivness, but not on prostitution.  It’s laughable.

   

  Taxes aren’t beneficial?

   

  Strippers and prostitutes don’t give up their dignity.

   

  If it were legalized and monitored it would be a lot harder to hide children in the system. 

   

  I think millions and millions of married couples would say that while incredible sex can be had in committed long term relationships that can also remove the spark of random sex.

   

   

• lfbno7 said on Jul 23, 2007....

  How do we decide what to make illegal?  How do we decide what actions are so intolerable that anyone who commits them has to have his everyday life taken away and must be condemned to spend a lot of time in prison?
  
  The person must have done something awful, something very hurtful, something we just can't tolerate.
  
  It's insane to put prostitutes in prison.  Insane.  It's insane to put pot smokers in prison.
  
  I'll tell you what.  Take everyone who ever drank a beer and throw the s.o.b. in jail for a few years.  Take every female who ever kissed anybody and throw her in prison for a few years.  Okay?
  
  There's a right and a wrong answer here.  The wrong answer is to put prostitutes in prison.  That's just plain insane.  You disagree, you get an X on your paper, you're just wrong.  Prostitution is not a crime.  It's a business transaction.  Somebody sells you a newspaper, you may as well put him in jail too.
  
  If you don't get it, you must be pretty dumb.  Head like a rock, incapable of logical thought.
  
  Don't quote the Bible.  Don't quote Aesop's Fables either.  Don't quote comic books either.  Not interested.  Tell me what Zeus has to say about the subject. What about Odin?  What did he say about it?  And Daffy Duck, what was his opinion?  I'd take Daffy Duck's opinion over anything in Romans.  At least Daffy Duck wasn't a homicidal maniac.  Kill Kill Kill, that's basically what Romans and other parts of the fraudulent Bible have to contribute.  Thank you very much, Bible, now go take a valium and calm the frig down.  You're a mess.  Kill whisperers.  Kill gossipers.  Kill homos.  Kill alkys.  Kill Kill Kill.  Blood gore and guts, veins in my teeth.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jul 23, 2007....

  Killing solved a lot of problems in the past you know. 
   
  Also just because something is fiction doesn't mean it can't be quoted.  I often talk about the red pill.  That said I agree with your point.

• memories said on Nov 25, 2007....

   

   how about if you were to give them money and say ,i am not paying for sex, but i'll buy you dinner for it and not go to the restaurant with you.

  would that be a loop hole? i have bought dinner for girls before and gotten laid afterwards. does that make me a john?

• lidstrom82 said on Nov 26, 2007....

  Just some random thoughts on the matter...
  
  sex is such a personal issue to many. How we engage in its physical aspects varies widely, too...it could be through a committed partner, a one night stand, your spouse, as a business transaction with a prostitute, by yourself with porn, with each other with all of the above, and so on.
  
  I know that both overly loose and overly rigid views of sex are both harmful; loose tending to be dangerous or negative in some way, and rigid being stifled and in denial over a basic need.
  
  I believe there's a line between a healthy sex life and perversion. What perversion is defined as also varies. I tend to think that if an act is unhealthy, degrading, or disrespectful of someone in any way, then an enjoyable act such as sex becomes perversion. Perhaps sadomasochistic.
  
  I personally don't think that God condemns us for sexual desires, but we sure can sin/screw up because of them. I think everyone, whether they only sleep with one person or 20 in their lifetime, will regret a few things, or wanted to have better, when it comes to sex. When all is said and done, I still say it's best in a committed relationship, away from promiscuity, away from porn, away from prostitution. Should it be illegal?  Well, it's hard to think of it as a benefit to society to make it a business...
  
  One more thing to consider, for anyone religiously minded...a city, state, or nation can be enormously prosperous with or without legalized prostitution.  Money shouldn't be the deciding factor, and just because men and women want to sell their bodies for pleasure doesn't necessarily mean they SHOULD. So it doesn't seem like a government-regulated call to make...it's more a personal one.  It should be said that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for wickedness. Sodomy, as a criminal charge, has its word origin from that city in Genesis. If you want to know more, just ask Marv Albert. It appears there is a limit to what we can do sexually from a moral standpoint...the question is, where does prostitution fit in with that limit?
  

• anonymous22 said on Feb 19, 2008....

  Lidstrom, the limit you're talking about isn't constant - it moves with social views on morality. For instance, sodomy isn't a crime here in Canada. It's okie-dokie as long as you're over 18 or with your spouse. It may look like the far end of the morality spectrum to you now, but wait 50 years and things might change.

  You say that it should be a personal choice? True, to go sell your body or not is pretty personal, but the government needs to take a side in this - either by legalizing it completely or outlawing it completely - because people aren't all that free to choose while it's only a little legal. Too often, the law is a Catch-22 - prostitution is legal, but finding customers isn't. Really silly, if you think about it.

  There are a lot of negative things associated with prostitution - human trafficking, abuse, poverty, alcohol addiction. Even in the Netherlands, where it's legal, some prostitutes have been trafficked in, forced to sell their bodies. You can be sure they didn't choose their profession. Those who are in favour of prostitution argue that, with legalization, all the unsavoury aspects of prostitution can be cracked down on. I haven't seen the statistics, personally, but it sounds right... History shows us that regulation generally works than prohibition.

  The only real anti-legalization arguments I've seen lump prostitution with violence towards women, child prostitution, human trafficking and everything else. Is there enough evidence for that? Maybe it's a red herring argument. Anyway, when stripped of all the emotional language those speeches look a lot weaker.

• silverwhisper said on Feb 20, 2008....

  anonymous22, i think that anti-women violence and prostitution is a total red herring.
  
  ed

• freedomofspeechNZ said on Jun 04, 2008....

  prostitution is legal over here in New Zealand. It protects the workers because lets face it they are going to do it anyway. I can't see how being a sex worker is any different than doing any other professional service such as a juggler for example he's also using his body.. isnt that our right to choose how and what we do with ourselves?
  The USA needs to drop its discrimination of its own people - making everyone into common criminals because it doesn't meet some preset white colar ideals. Communism, Nazism anyone? ( k maybe not that far but close )
  If you want to sell your body for sex fine it doesnt hurt anyone at all, if you would like a nice cannibis smoke to relax after work fine! If you want to be gay fine! - why should the government tell you what you should and shouldn't do?
  Viva La Resistance People! - Don't be suppressed! : )

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