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      Andrew McCarthy writing for National Review On-line, a Conservative publication pointed out the complete hypocrisy of the Obama Administration.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NjRhNWQ2YTRlYWI2NzU0Yjc0NmFlN2FjMmI2YzYyODU=

       I really cannot believe this.  This brazen hypocrisy makes a mockery of our America and will not be exposed by our media or even known by the general population.  In short the Justice Department is recommending Bush lawyers come under disciplinary committees for supposed ethical lapses in drafting the infamous "torture" memos.

      Now the same Justice Department is using the same logic the Bush lawyers used in this case against this Nazi, Demjanjuk a former concentration camp guard.  Here is the brief:

http://www2.nationalreview.com/dest/2009/05/06/71694f722e5a5d7c8e4aff8d948e40c4.pdf

     Supposedly it has been removed from the Justice Department website so this is a PDF from NRO.  Check this quote out:

 

[T]orture is defined as “an extreme form of cruel and inhuman treatment and does not include lesser forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. . . . ” 8 C.F.R. § 1208.18(a)(2). Moreover, as has been explained by the Third Circuit, CAT requires “a showing of specific intent before the Court can make a finding that a petitioner will be tortured.”  Pierre v. Attorney General, 528 F.3d 180, 189 (3d Cir. 2008) (en banc); see 8 C.F.R. § 1208.18(a)(5) (requiring that the act “be specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering”); Auguste v. Ridge, 395 F.3d 123, 139 (3d Cir. 2005) (“This is a ‘specific intent’ requirement and not a ‘general intent’ requirement” [citations omitted.] An applicant for CAT protection therefore must establish that “his prospective torturer will have the motive or purpose” to torture him. Pierre, 528 F.3d at 189; Auguste, 395 F.3d at 153-54 (“The mere fact that the Haitian authorities have knowledge that severe pain and suffering may result by placing detainees in these conditions does not support a finding that the Haitian authorities intend to inflict severe pain and suffering. The difference goes to the heart of the distinction between general and specific intent.”) [my bold italics and brackets]. . . .  


     Are they serious?  This is pages 20-21 of the brief.

     So lets see, define torture so watered-down a wet-willy is torture when it is politically fashionable to criticize Bush, then use the same argument Bush used to substantiate claims in another case.  Is this getting more and more ridiculous as the days go on?



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Comments

  • javadewd said on May 07, 2009....
    Man, those damn "wet-willy's!!" It's not as bad as a swirly, but man!!

  • stopmediabias said on May 07, 2009....
    Doesn't this just blow your mind?  I've heard a number of Liberals claim the "intent" reasoning is preposterous and now they are using the same reasoning on something that is politically popular to them.
  • javadewd said on May 07, 2009....
    Liberals are logical in their claims? Now that would blow my mind!

  • D6fer said on May 07, 2009....
    this is blocs favorite subject......I wonder why he is not commenting? ;p
  • ALIENated said on May 07, 2009....
    
    What we all forget is, Democrat or Republican, most of those twinks in 
    Washington are self-serving career politicians. For all their campaign 
    promises and grandiose claims, they get in office and do whatever they
    want and whatever will keep them there. Bush did little of what he
    promised to do, and BHO will do even less, I hope.
    
    
  • speaking_up said on May 08, 2009....
    This was weird...and no editing either:
     
    "Bush did little of what he
    promised to do, and BHO will do even less, I hope"
     
    by alien...
     
    Any..........who...
     
    Yawn.
  • kelly said on May 08, 2009....
    I find it amazing that smb would even care, given his views on torture.  Talk about hypocrisy.
  • stopmediabias said on May 08, 2009....

    Alien-I disagree about your Bush comment, he screwed the pooch on immigration but stuck to his guns on vitally important issues when any Democrat would have caved.

    Kelly-You know I am anti-torture, everyone is.  But come on, you don't see the blatant hypocrisy here?  You can't dis someone for writing an opinion then use the same opinion on another case.

  • ALIENated said on May 08, 2009....
    
    Bush did little of what he promised to do
    
    Let me say, little of what conservatives hoped he would do. He did fine on the
    war (defense), but was weird on immigration (as you say). Little was done as
    far as abortion, except for possibly appointing Supreme Court justices who
    may be anti-abortion (not sure on that). And maybe it was not so much Bush
    as it was the Republican congress. Of course, Republican philosophy is less
    government, which is part of the problem. Republicans intend to do little and
    then they are criticized for it. Democrats are always fucking with us, which is
    exactly what they promise to do. Maybe Republicans should run ad campaigns
    that explain how they intentionally did not do this or that, that they are 
    intentionally not fucking with us and over taxing us, etc. I suppose that is the
    job of conservative talk show hosts.
    
    
  • stopmediabias said on May 08, 2009....
    I think the problem is George Bush will always be viewed through the eyes of people who hate him.  He got rid of Saddam and his two sons, there's probably not price anyone could put on that as far as effects on the future.  He also took down a lot of bad people, got the economy booming (before the Dem poison pill) and cut taxes even after all the terrible things like terrorism and natural disasters.
  • javadewd said on May 09, 2009....
    Giuliani...?
  • speaking_up said on May 09, 2009....
    stopmediabias; *sigh* there will always be another bad person around the corner to kill or eliminate.  Always.
  • stopmediabias said on May 09, 2009....
    Speaking-I know, Liberals always seem to pop up everywhere. :>
  • javadewd said on May 09, 2009....
    And terrorists... But some jackass wanted to torture them instead of just kill them.
  • speaking_up said on May 09, 2009....
    javadewd...jackass?  Your word is understated to say the least...
     
  • kelly said on May 09, 2009....
    "Kelly-You know I am anti-torture, everyone is.  But come on, you don't see the blatant hypocrisy here? "

    Yes, I do.  And it's all you.  You're not anti-torture when the US is doing it.  You're just anti-torture when it's another country doing the torturing.
  • stopmediabias said on May 09, 2009....
    Kelly-you didn't answer the question, but that aside if you show me a reasonable substantiated case of torture done by the orders of the Bush administration or done without such orders during Bush's term I will recant and admit I was wrong. 
  • javadewd said on May 09, 2009....
    Speaking, dear, I think Hannity is a blow-hard, but I loved one of his quotes from the other day : "This guy killed over 3,000 Americans and all we did was water-board him 183 times?" The Iranians over-threw their ayatollah back in 1978 and beat him like a pinata, dragged him down the main street and set him on fire, which you and bloc and Kelly would gladly do if given the chance to GW Bush, so what makes y'all the authority on moral valiance? Hmm? We should have given him back to his home country [Saudi Arabia wasn't it?] and have him publically [televised] executed like Saddam. I don't think the Prince would mind, and it would be the least he could do for us whiny sack-less American pussies who can't seem to do our own executions anymore... Unless you're in Texas, of course! Hey? Wasn't GW from Texas...?
  • stopmediabias said on May 10, 2009....

    The latest from the torture expert bloc:

    "Here's what we did. We would strip people naked and shackle them into painful stress positions. Then we'd prevent them from sleeping for days while we kept their cell at freezing temperatures. We'd unshackle them to waterboard them repeatedly then sometimes we'd lock them in tiny boxes for hours on end before waterboarding them some more."

    This guy has lost it, and it is sad.

  • speaking_up said on May 10, 2009....
    Wholly crap buttercup, I have no idea about you, but I don't want to see anyone killed or tortured...even bush...
     
    Whatever my life purpose is suppose to be, I know intuitively it aint that.
  • ALIENated said on May 10, 2009....
    
    I have not had time to read all that has been released on this subject. Tell me,
    do the reports say why this was done? Was there any reason for it or did our
    people just like torturing people? According to Chaney, Al Jackassaloni, or 
    whatever his name is, was saying nothing until he was waterboarded and then
    he gave up all kinds of useful information about Al Quida or whoever. To say
    waterboarding does no good is baloney. The information given up can be used
    and validated to see if it is truth or fiction. It is not like they interrogate the
    guy and then throw him off the train only to be surprised as they crash through
    a door and find a Sunday school class. 
    
    
  • stopmediabias said on May 11, 2009....

    http://s3.amazonaws.com/propublica/assets/missing_memos/28OLCmemofinalredact30May05.pdf

    Alien-this link is to the actual "torture" memos.  Pages 10 to 12 outlines our techniques of interrogation.  Read about the painful stress positions and freezing cells and you will see it is not even close to what bloc is saying and certainly isn't torture.

    To prove torture we have to prove: 1-We caused extreme pain and suffering.  2-It was our intention to cause extreme pain and suffering. 

    Because I can't find anywhere where I believe we even came close to meeting the above criteria then I'm a "torture defender."

  • silverwhisper said on May 12, 2009....
    smb quoth:
    to prove torture we have to prove: 1 we caused extreme pain and suffering. 2 it was our intention to cause extreme pain and suffering.

    nothing quite like re-defining a word into uselessness, is there? how quickly you forget, smb.

    1. when japan waterboarded US servicemen in WW2, we denounced it as torture. you are drinking the koolaid that when the president does something, it's not a crime.

    2. you cannot prove intention in a court of law. talk to a lawyer.

    i find it very strange that you're trying to criticize president obama for this when you completely excused bush for doing the same, and worse. partisan much?

    ed
  • stopmediabias said on May 12, 2009....

    Silver-read the memos that outline our version of waterboarding and tell me if #1-It is even close to what the Japanese did and #2-Did it rise to the level of extreme pain and suffering.  In both cases it is clearly no and the President didn't break the law.

    Proving intent is the foundation most egregious crimes.  Stomping and breaking someones fingers rises to the level of torture but people don't get charged with torture if it happens in a bar fight because it was not that persons intention to torture.  It is the same with murder versus manslaughter, to prove intent you have to prove it was the specific intention of the killer to murder someone else otherwise bar fights that result in death would be murder instead of manslaughter which would be wrong.

     I am criticizing our President for saying something is false on one hand then saying the same thing is valid on the other and in both cases it is for political points.

  • silverwhisper said on May 13, 2009....
    tell me, are you sure you're even familiar with what the japanese did when they waterboarded?

    ed
  • stopmediabias said on May 13, 2009....
    The accout that bloc has posted several times tells of an ongoing process of other torture methods along with the use of water to make the victim pass out several times.
  • speaking_up said on May 14, 2009....
    Alien...ah Alien...when will I get some sleep tonight?  You said..."Tell me,
    do the reports say why this was done? Was there any reason for it or did our
    people just like torturing people?"
     
    So, if there is a good reason, torture is okay for you?
     
    Your theory reminds me of some court cases I witness from time to time...the defence lawyer will say to the victim on the stand..."what did you say prior to the time your jaw was knocked off of your face?"  (in other words, what did YOU SAY to cause this violence?)
     
    Or...
     
    (defence lawyer again)..."madam, what where you wearing to the club, the night of the ALLEGED rape?"
     
    The implication is clear.  And so is yours.  What do people do to DESERVE torture?
     
    Nothing.
     
    Nothing man.
     
  • speaking_up said on May 14, 2009....
    Stop/...I know that the torture depicted coming out of iraq was systematic.  It was so systematic, photo's of the event were memorialized by the perpretrators.  You cannot tell any reasonable person that the intent was not to inflict great pain and suffering upon our (perceived) enemies.  How long this was going on before it became public is anyone's guess.  But it is not hard to imagine it has been going on since the beginning of the war.
     
    I know I know...you want to catch and kill the rat.  However, your smokescreen does not erase the mind-boggling and troubling facts.
  • stopmediabias said on May 14, 2009....

    Speaking-my Republican friend, save it.  Specifics please or your just wasting both of our times.

    Here's a fact:  We don't torture people.

    If you have evidence that suggests otherwise lets here it.

  • speaking_up said on May 14, 2009....
    OMG...you didn't see the news this morning then, did you?  Do you ever bring yourself up to date on anything of importance?  Even the CIA admits to waterboarding (btw, it was 83 times, not 183 times...just to be fair)...that they briefed Nancy Pelosi, back in 2002 on what they were doing with detainees.    It has been established and accepted now (by the powers that be), that waterboarding is TORTURE.  So any more discussion about that is moot.
     
    Detainees were tortured, congress were supposedly briefed by the CIA, and this morning speaker Nancy Pelosi called the CIA misleading and lying and denies any briefing regarding torture.
     
    So even the CIA admit to torture.  Now we have to get the elected officials to admit that they knew about it.
     
    I'm over and out on this thread...it's like talking to a brick wall.
  • speaking_up said on May 14, 2009....
    I am amazed at your confidence in the people in power to not torture perceived enemies...it happens all of the time.  I watched this video (taken from another postee today) and see torture going on in america to it's own fucking people!
     
    WAKE UP!
     
     
    After you view this, come back and tell me again how the photos the videos, the testimonies of torture against muslims (who are hated since 9/11) are lies.
     
    I cannot tolerate you anymore.  I have throw up at the back of my throat over what we do to our own fucking people, let alone our enemies of state.
  • ALIENated said on May 15, 2009....
    
    So now we are bashing Bush because there are some bad people in America? 
    I think I got lost somewhere. Is any of this making sense to anyone? Soon 
    our history books will have Bush flying the airplane that dropped the bombs 
    on Japan in WWII. That dang Bush. I heard he started the Vietnam war, too.
    And that he was drunk on a flying suacer talking to Larry King.
    
    
  • stopmediabias said on May 15, 2009....
    Speaking-Once again specifics, just repeating stupid comments over and over isn't going to get you anywhere.  And it is obvious you don't even know what torture is.  Are we talking about the same thing?
  • javadewd said on May 15, 2009....
    Torture is having liberals say they'll do the same thing conservatives are doing (because they have no plan) and somehow they'll do it better... So therefore I am being tortured!
  • ALIENated said on May 15, 2009....
    
    You got that right.
    
    
  • kelly said on May 15, 2009....
    "Kelly-you didn't answer the question, but that aside if you show me a reasonable substantiated case of torture done by the orders of the Bush administration or done without such orders during Bush's term I will recant and admit I was wrong."

    You'd have to be obtuse to the point of cretinism to look at all the abuse that went on at Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, Nama, etc. and not see a substantiated case of torture. And do you think the prisoners that died while in custody just happened to die of old age? America has shown her stripes to the rest of the world. If America is the greatest nation on the planet then there is no hope for the planet.
  • stopmediabias said on May 16, 2009....

    Kelly-See we keep going back and forth.  You guys say we torture people I say we don't just based on the information we have and regardless of what information you guys are are shown you maintain this braindead path.  

     What's the deal with you guys?  I would admit I was wrong, you guys would hang yourselves if you had to admit you are wrong, why is that?  Isn't discovering we actually don't torture people a good thing?

  • javadewd said on May 16, 2009....
    Ooooh. America is such a bad place... There are prisoners in Russia, Afghanistan, Iran, Poland and China who would give body parts to be in an American prison where our murderers and child molesters get cable television, conjugal visits, free education (most lifers achieve four masters degrees), decent food, state health care...

    Fuck! I want to be an American prisoner!! Torture me for fuck's sake! I'll hang out of a bed upside down with my underwear over my face and get water thrown in my hooded face to get all these fucking bennies that I'd have to work hard otherwise to earn!!!! 
  • speaking_up said on May 16, 2009....
    Java...careful what you wish for!
  • javadewd said on May 16, 2009....
    I'm just saying, Speaking, if this is the best thing the liberals can throw at the Bush administration, then it's pretty weak. Hell, the stuff Trav tells me about in his objections towards the Bush administration seem to hold more water (and overall relevance) than this... And nearly every day it plays on the SC like a broken record! When Condi Rice can put a smug college punk with a video camera in his place publicly, that should tell the left something -- of all the things that liberals could have thrown at them, they picked the one thing with the least effect. Congratulations! They are tools... Now tell Chris Matthews and Keith Obermann to quit beating off and get back to reporting the fucking news!

Comment on "President Obama's Blatant Torture Hypocrisy"


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Weak on foreign policy, sold out to the nutty left on domestic policy, now lets fuck with national security and have trials for terrorists in federal courts....
He didn't even try to answer it. What would be your answer? Were we right in dropping the bombs on Japan?...
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