• stopmediabias said on Apr 08, 2009....

  I think that gays should be allowed to serve in the military.  If they want to serve their country who are we to prevent them.  At the same time the "don't ask, don't tell" policy made sense because if a group of guys who are in close military training find out they are showering with someone that is physically attracted to them it is going to cause a problem. 

  Who someone is sexually attracted to is no-ones business and gays should keep their orientation to themselves.   

• SeanRenaud said on Apr 08, 2009....

  Would openly serving gays really interfere with unit cohesion and discipline?  No.  It wouldn't in fact not allowing them to serve openly causes problems with unit cohesion.  We live together and work together.  If your a homo, we know.  (and it is a society of young men you get teased about it) however at all unit social gatherings that person isn't allowed to bring their person.
  
  Could a policy allowing gays to serve openly cause problems with recruitment and retention?  Only amongst the most bigotted.
  
  For those of you heterosexual military folks, would living in close quarters with openly homosexual people bother you to the point of leaving the military?  Boot Camp aside we live no closer than your average poor college student.  Two to a room and these are people you trust with your life.  It would have minimal effect.
  
  For those of you considering joining, would knowing that gays can openly serve make you reconsider?  I already served and no it wouldn't for me.

   

  
   

• ALIENated said on Apr 08, 2009....

  
  By all means. And they should wear little fairy outfits, with wings, and
  ballet slippers. The way this country is spiraling into the abyss, who
  gives a shit.
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Apr 09, 2009....

  They don't do that in real life.

• stopmediabias said on Apr 13, 2009....

  http://cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46260&print=on
   
  Sean I was curious about this letter signed by 1,050 officers including 47 four star generals and sent to the President urging him not to repeal the addition to the Don't ask Don't tell policy?
   
  If someone is a practicing cross dresser, or a transexual, or a practicing satanist, does everyone in the unit need to know this or should they just keep it to themselves?
   
  People don't hate gays in this day of age because they are gay, they hate them because they want to shove who are they fucking right in everyone's faces then insist we except their lifestyle as the norm or we are all bigots.
   
   
   
   

• SeanRenaud said on Apr 13, 2009....

  If someone is a practicing cross dresser, or a transexual, or a practicing satanist, does everyone in the unit need to know this or should they just keep it to themselves?

  No they don't NEED to know.  But it shouldn't be a crime to tell them.  It's like nobody understand what don't ask don't tell means.  It's not a recruitment strategy or a professional stance.  It's a law.  You know like if your in the military you can be criminally charged for getting a sunburn. 

  I agree that you should be ABLE to keep your private life private.  I don't believe you should be legally forced to.

• ALIENated said on Apr 14, 2009....

  
  They don't do that in real life. 
  
  Have you ever seen a homosexual parade?
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Apr 14, 2009....

  Have you ever seen a KKK rally?

  How bout a Star Wars convention? 

  We can point to examples all we want but the day to day life doesn't happen like that.  Besides we wouldn't be talking about letting them have their own uniform what they do in their off time shoudl be there business anyway.  (A guy cross dressing in the military wouldn't last very long anyway.)

• ALIENated said on Apr 15, 2009....

  
  Should we allow child molesters in the military? Why not? Which perversion
  should be the perversion that breaks the camel's back? The big problem is
  that everyone compares homosexual to being a different race. Comparing
  races is like comparing two cars of a different color. They are both still
  cars. Comparing heteros and homos is like comparing a car to a motorcycle
  or a hammer. If homos can cohabit with heteros, then why separate men 
  and women? Most hetero men do not mind being around homos in public, 
  but they do not want to bunk with them for obvious reasons. And it is a
  problem that government, beaten down by homo lobbies and Hollywood,
  is trying to force people to accept homosexuality as normal, but no one
  really believes that, and it leads to problems. Most soldiers might say they
  think nothing of homosexuality (because of PC pressure), but they would
  shit a brick if some homo was in the shower with them.
  
  

• javadewd said on Apr 16, 2009....

  I think we should enact the "Save my ass, just not for yourself and/or your corn-holing compadres" act. I think that pretty much hits the nail right on the head. If my sniper was a pickle puffer, but knocked off a towel-head at over 3/4 of a mile that was about to whack me, I'd kiss the fucker on the lips... Swear! Props are props. Skills are skills.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Apr 16, 2009....

  They are already showering with homos. We don't have a law against Gays in the military.  In fact now it's arguably worse because you don't know if he's a fag or if he's jsut playing.  Trust me in an young male population just joking around can get pretty out of hand because it's a bunch of young guys living together with minimal "adult" supervision.

  If you're argument is they shouldn't be allowed to serve at all that's one thing.  But they shouldn't be forced to lie.

  As for Child Molesters in the military. . .well assuming we're past the part where they should be in jail that's beside the point.  Once out why not?  There are no children in the military or on base.  It's probably one of the safest places to keep them away from temptations.  (Not to mention we can just put them in the front row and let them get shot.)

• ALIENated said on Apr 16, 2009....

  
  It is just amazing that we are spending so much time and effort dealing with
  sexual retards in relation to the military and all aspects of life and business. I 
  think what I am saying is they should be classified as mentally unstable (most
  of the homos I know and have known are) and not allowed in where they might
  endanger someone's life. Maybe there could be a special USO group they could
  be in.
  
  Speaking of, cudos to curmudgeon for most likely having blocked PieterDopie.
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Apr 16, 2009....

  If I were a homo that knew you I'd be unstable to from dealing with you.

  Obviously anybody who is mentally unstable shouldn't be allowed to be in a place where other peoples lives are at stake.  That goes without saying.

• ALIENated said on Apr 17, 2009....

  
  Dealing with totally honest people makes you feel unstable? I am not as 
  honest IRL. Those damn "hate speech" laws prevent that. Homoism has
  gone from banned by law to protected by law on our watch. A sad 
  commentary on our times.
  
  

• javadewd said on Apr 17, 2009....

  Hey, Klinger was not a homo, he was a section 8. There's a difference... When it was all said and done, the guy put on a pair of pants just like the rest of the boys.

• stopmediabias said on Apr 18, 2009....

  My little brother was in military right when don't ask don't tell was enacted and when we were talking to him on the phone I asked: "did you get in under don't ask don't tell?"  He got all pissed at me:>
   
  I don't think the crime is being gay and being in the military, the crime is creating a false which can mean a dangerous environment by informing everyone of deeply personal things.  Take a bunch of rednecks from the south and mix them with a bunch of gays from the north in a unit whose life depends on them being a team and it won't work.  But if the rednecks don't know they are gay and it isn't brought up there is a far better chance of success. 
   
   
   

• javadewd said on Apr 18, 2009....

  That reminds me... Where's our resident homo, PO? Shouldn't he be chiming in on this?

• SeanRenaud said on Apr 19, 2009....

  SMB I really don't think you understand the situation here on some level so I'm going to break it down as far as I can using your example which while I think is a bit of an exaggeration its still valid.

  1.  We have a your unit of rednecks and gays.  These men are together 24 hours a day seven days a week.  They sleep in the same barracks.  They train together.  They often receive mail as a unit and may (not often now that Cells are so commom) share a phone.  They shower together.  They are often like adopted family taking unit members home with them if they are unable ot make it home for a holiday.  Do you honestly think that anybody doesn't already know who's gay and who isn't in these units?

  2.  Again same unit.  They already know (or strongly suspect) that so and so is gay.  Say I'm a tolerant Redneck should it be ILLEGAL for you to tell me your sexual orrientation?

  There is a misconception that people got into the military under don't ask don't tell.  Fags have been lying about being fags for years and years and getting away with it.  It was socially prudent (and is) to do so.  I'm sure there were gays in WW2 and Vietnam and every other war and they lied served this country blah blah blah.  Some probably came out some were likely killed and others everyone said you've saved my life I don't give a shit if you suck donkey dick as long as you shoot Charlie in the wire.  Today that guy gets a dishonorably discharge.  And in addition anybody who knew gets in trouble for conspiracy.

  Repealing don't ask don't tell wouldn't suddenly have gays in the military coming out en masse.  It's still made up of 50% texans.  It would be suicide for many of them to come out.  But just stick to my two main questions

• javadewd said on Apr 19, 2009....

  Gays have been getting married since the dawn of time [to heterosexuals] -- It's the whole "same sex" marriage that has been illegal for years and years... Actually more like thousands of years. I also have yet to hear of anybody getting in trouble for knowing a homo in the military, nor have I heard of this whole "conspiracy" thing. Is there a back-story or source that you can give us to broaden our insights here?
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Apr 19, 2009....

  Because the rule isn't really enforced.  Go do your own research on that.  IF you don't understand what "Don't ask, Don't Tell" actually means then maybe you should educate yourself prior to entering the debate.  Particularly with someone with first hand knowledge of the situation.

• javadewd said on Apr 19, 2009....

  Well I understand what "Don't ask, Don't tell" means, SR, but I have never heard of anybody ever getting in any sort of serious trouble over it and certainly never heard of anybody in a "conspiracy" charge. I know Chaplains, officers and grunts... Some are friends, others family, in all different branches of the military, who would have first-hand knowledge of such things, but alas nobody has heard anything of such... So I ask again... Where are you getting this shit?
  

• SeanRenaud said on Apr 19, 2009....

  Ask any one of them if it CAN happen.  Not if it does.  I don't know anybody who was charged with getting a sunburn.  I also know that it can.

• SeanRenaud said on Apr 19, 2009....

  I will list all articles of the UCMJ that could be used in this situation.

  77- Principles.  Basically its a catchall

  81- Conspiracy- You knew something and you didn't immediately tell others this information.

  92- Failur to obey orders- This like 77 can be tacked on to most charges

  133- Conduct unbecoming- Again any time someone wants this one they can get it

  134- Complete catchall.

  Any or all of these could be brought upon a soldier, sailor, airman or Marine who KNEW about someone else being gay and didn't report it.  Now are these laws readily enforced?  No because they are stupid.  But not getting rid of them basically gives people one more weapon they cau use if they are pissy with you.

   

• javadewd said on Apr 19, 2009....

  You cannot get charged for getting a sunburn... That's just dumb. Show me any military case based on your hypothetical argument...
  
  Here are three sources that punch holes in your argument:
  [source 1] - [source 2] - [source 3]
  
  Coulda, woulda, shoulda... Back your facts up!
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Apr 20, 2009....

  If you can find a better source maybe.  The fact is that none of your sources over rule what I already said.  The last one tries to.  The last one howevr basically says that a court already choose to ignore the DADT policy.  Not that any of what I said was false.

• javadewd said on Apr 20, 2009....

  You're turn... Again, show me any military case based on your hypothetical argument... Or as you put it, "shut the fuck up!"
  
  

• stopmediabias said on Apr 20, 2009....

  Your characterization of illegal behavior, you cannot be charged with a crime, you can only be discharged and this is only if you engage in homosexual activity, get married to a member of the same sex, and/or openly admit you are homosexual or bi-sexual.  This is a rule of being in the military. 

  "Do you honestly think that anybody doesn't already know who's gay and who isn't in these units?"

  It doesn't matter, the rednecks I know wouldn't care, there is a tiny majority of gays in the military and a large majority of people who are not comfortable with the concept, so why add it to the mix of crap our military all ready as to deal with?

  Don't ask don't tell basically says if you swing that way keep it too yourself. 

• SeanRenaud said on Apr 20, 2009....

  And I'm saying they already do but should not be subject to legal action if they do not.

Comment on "Gays in the Military"

Currently tagged	military gays Homosexuality homosexuals politics (Click to add tags below)
Tag this post	(Separate tags using commas, for example: New York, dating, vegetarian)
Your comment