• mobil said on Mar 08, 2009....

  Not yet another conspiracy theory Kru? I'm still looking for more evidence on the "grassy knoll"

• kruuyai said on Mar 08, 2009....

  mobil:  The grassy knoll?

• kruuyai said on Mar 08, 2009....

  P.S. - As long as there are conspiracies, there will be conspiracy theories.

• mobil said on Mar 08, 2009....

  Yes Kru the grassy knoll where there has been so much speculation about President Kennedy being shot from also. The two killers conspiracy!
   
  I would be more likely to say; As long as there are people, there will be conspiracy theories.

• ninjapirate said on Mar 08, 2009....

  This is very interesting. When I was in NYC and I was walking out of the subway by the World Trade Center a few weeks ago, there were demostrators saying something about telling the truth on 9/11, but I wasn't sure what they meant. Now I know, so there are people doing stuff about it!

• Cussane said on Mar 08, 2009....

  Yet another conspiracy theory..............so, a government that still cant find Osama, cant keep names of CIA agents secret and lets face it, spends more time discussing thier secrets on CNN than actually governing is supoosed to be capable of hiding the truth of 911, what about all the firefighters, medics, coroners, cops, air traffic controllers, pilots etc, do you really think after this time no one would have came forward and sold thier story to Oprah for gadzillions of dollars. the truth of 911 is simple, we were asleep at the switch, had good intelligence and failed to act on it, embarrassed that someone who we supported in Afganistan against the russians came back to bite us in the ass in a big way, there is no conspiracy, just plain stupidity that people were never held to account for.
   
  Cussane

• kruuyai said on Mar 08, 2009....

  mobil:   I've seen some of those documentaries on the Kennedy assassination.  You're familiar with guns.  How would you explain the trajectory of that bullet?
  
  ninja:  Yes, people have been talking about it for a long time, but the push is finally on.  I guess no one really expected the Bush administration to take action.  I'm not so sure that the Obama admin will either, but here's hoping.
  
  Cuss:  Well, if that's true, then they shouldn't object to an independent investigation.
  

• mobil said on Mar 08, 2009....

  Kru the trajectory was straight, that is until it hits something. After a fast moving bullet hits something, it does what they call; "Yawn"

   

  When a bullet yawns it can do anything, it's flight path is gone and it can go wildly out of control. Even hitting a blade of grass can cause a bullet to yawn.

   

  So after it first hit Kennedy's head, it traveled threw the governors wrist and I think leg. I can't remember exactly where it went now. But the bullet left the barrel at about 2700 feet per second, if I remember right it was a 30-06.

   

  The  heavier a bullet is, the less tendency it has to yawn and the slower moving also. That bullet could  have easily hit someone sight seeing on the street after passing through Kennedy's  head. It's like shooting through a glass pane. You can aim at someone on the other side and the bullet might or might not hit them depending on how it yawned.

   

  I don't know if this makes any sense to you Kru, I tried.

   

   

   

• mOOn_platOOn said on Mar 08, 2009....

  O
   
  kru - I recently had a discussion on this topic with friends who showed me some compiled footage of the towers collapsing.
   
  You know how they warn you, "If something sounds too good to be true, it is." Meaning it ain't true. When I saw both the towers go all the way down, completely, I thought "That's unbelievable." And you know what? It isn't believable.
   
  Those were obviously controlled detonations, as anyone examing the many shots of the crime can clearly see for themselves. Controlled explosions can be seen flashing downward ahead of the collapse, and survivors report explosions from above - witnesses familiar with those specific sounds.
   
  Who says the government did it? There are private billionaires responsible, as far as I'm concerned.
   
  At no other point in known history have jets brought down large buildings in their entirety by colliding with them, fuel or no fuel. Those buildings were made to withstand such trauma. They could have stood through a 100-year storm.
   
  On with the investigation before the trail gets any colder.
   
  BTW - there's a great shot of Kennedy getting capped in the new WATCHMEN movie. The Comedian did it.
   
  O

• kruuyai said on Mar 09, 2009....

  mobil:  I do understand what you're saying, but in the documentary that I saw, if I remember correctly (and I may not remember correctly, because the Kennedy assassination is not one of my pet projects), the trajectory of the bullet was shown to make all kinds of loops and turns inside Kennedy's body.  How could that happen?  You've probably seen more documentaries on this than I have.
  
  mOOn:  Hey!  That was kind of fun (writing your name).  I don't think I've ever done that before.  Yeah, there's a lot of fishy stuff about the 911 attacks.  You're right that proving that it was done from the inside still doesn't prove who did it.  But whether it's the government, private billionaires (in whose service our government is run), or terrorists of some sort, that knowledge will bring us one step closer to the truth.  If they do confirm that it was an inside job, the interesting question, of course, will be:  "Why did the government do a coverup?" 
  

• mobil said on Mar 09, 2009....

  I just told you how that happens Kru. a high speed bullet hit's one thing and can move in an entirely different direction and do that again and again.

• kruuyai said on Mar 09, 2009....

  mobil:  You mean even inside a solid object?  Well, I guess a human body is really not so solid, huh?  Like I said, the Kennedy assassination doesn't hold so much interest for me.  I don't know why.  I know a lot of other people are obsessed with it, but there are a lot of other things that I find more intriguing.  Maybe because I was like three years old when it happened.

• mobil said on Mar 09, 2009....

  I looked at it for a while and the possibility of others shooting, doesn't interest me any more.
   
  Yes a bullet will jump all over the place inside a body, sometimes they break up and one piece here others there.
   
  This is from the speed of the bullet and that it's spinning at a tremendous RPS revolutions per second. It imparts a power shock to flesh.

• kruuyai said on Mar 09, 2009....

  mobil:  Ok.  Thanks... and good night.

• stopmediabias said on Mar 10, 2009....

  So we blew up our own buildings on 9/11?  Are you guys really serious with this?

• kruuyai said on Mar 10, 2009....

  SMB:  Duh.

• mOOn_platOOn said on Mar 10, 2009....

  O
   
  What do you mean "we," kimosabe?
   
  O

• Cussane said on Mar 10, 2009....

  Ok, again i ask were is the proof, and dont tell me about the guy in the subway or the protestors, we all know the guy in the subway wears a tinfoil hat so the aliens cant read his mind and the protestors should really get a job. Come on, we all know americans couldn't keep a secret this big if thier lives depended on it. why is it so hard to admit that we let these guys into the country, trained them how to fly a plane (not to land, just fly), ignored numerous warnings from both our own security and forgien security agencies, blew the chance to smoke osama back in 93, it seems much easier to claim all these conspiracies instead of just admitting how badly we fucked up. god forbid we americans could ever own up to our screw up and swallow our pride Wait...there it is another damm alien Cussane

• stopmediabias said on Mar 11, 2009....

  Kru-I spent a about an hour argueing with someone on this:  The U.S. government hatched a plan to blow up the WTC so Americans would be outraged enough to attack Saddam Hussein.

  Bush and Cheney were the scallywags who pulled it off.

  So lets see.  Two men who are rich and successful before they even get into public service, spend all this time building political carreers, lives, families, and a name for themselves.   Decide they are going kill 1,000 to 50,000 of our own people because of some type of revenge?  This is after overwhelming evidence against Saddam pointed out by both sides of the aisle?

  Duh? 

  It is insulting to Americans, our way of life, and everything we hold dear to make this accusation without ironclad proof.  Shame on you and everyone of these idiots who promote this garbage.

• mOOn_platOOn said on Mar 11, 2009....

  O

  Watch the videos. Carefully.

  O

• kruuyai said on Mar 13, 2009....

  Cussane:  I don't know which "guy on the subway" you're talking about.  I try not to waste my time with American pop culture. 
  
  "the protesters should really get a job."  That's just unAmerican.   Don't you know that freedom of speech and the right to assemble are our constitutional rights, and they are rights that we damned well should be practicing at this point in history, when so many of our rights have been stripped away.  They are trying to take those away, too.  It's those very protesters who have made it their "job" to protect your constitutional rights. 
  
  "we all know americans couldn't keep a secret if their lives depended on it."  I don't know any such thing.  That's not a defensible argument.
  
  "god forbid we americans could ever own up to our screw up and swallow our pride."  I can admit plenty of things about Americans.  In this case, we had the intelligence reports, and the president ignored them.  That's a given.  If he could ignore that kind of a threat and allow this thing to happen, it's not such a big leap to think he might have had something to do with it.  It's not proof, but that and other indications warrant an independent investigation whose purpose is to come up with proof.  That's why we do investigations.
  
  
  
  
  

• kruuyai said on Mar 13, 2009....

  stopmediabias:  "So lets see.  Two men who are rich and successful before they even get into public service, spend all this time building political carreers, lives, families, and a name for themselves. "  There's a strange phenomenon with the rich and powerful... something I don't understand at all, but it seems that having a lot of money creates the drive to have a lot more money, and having a lot of power creates the drive to have more power.  It's called greed, and these people will never have "enough."  BTW, I really can't agree with your assessment of GW Bush as "successful."  The man failed at everything he laid his hands on before becoming the president... and after.  The only thing he really succeeded at in life was being a puppet for the real power brokers of the country and the world... the Fed and their cohorts around the world.  See my post on Obama's agenda.  This is the really scary stuff, and you and I, pal, are in the same boat, so we really need to stop all this in-fighting and focus on who the real enemy is. 
  
  "This is after overwhelming evidence against Saddam pointed out by both sides of the aisle?"  Overwhelming evidence of what?  The only overwhelming evidence we have is that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 and that he had no weapons of mass destruction.
  
  "It is insulting to Americans, our way of life, and everything we hold dear to make this accusation without ironclad proof.  Shame on you and everyone of these idiots who promote this garbage."  You can shame me all you want, but if they have nothing to hide, then their "truth" will stand up to an independent investigation.  "Ironclad" proof is the objective of an investigation.  If the proof was already in hand (actually, I think most of it is, but it's not being accepted by the powers that be), then we would have no need to investigate, we could go straight to sentencing. 
  
  Hey, SMB, I know it's hard to let go of what we once thought was true.  Especially when those beliefs have defined everything about us and our way of life, but we have to start looking at what "is."  If we don't do that, they are going to have their way with us and it's going to be very, very ugly.   It's that "America... love it or leave it" type of patriotism that they are counting on, but all it's going to get you is a death sentence for the liberties that you used to enjoy as an American.
  
  
  

• kruuyai said on Mar 13, 2009....

  mOOn:  Which videos do you mean, specifically?

• mOOn_platOOn said on Mar 14, 2009....

  O
   
  kru - have you heard of the video "Loose Change?" google it along with 9-11.
   
  O

• stopmediabias said on Mar 14, 2009....

  Kru-Here is my biggest problem with 9/11 conspiracy theorists.  Lets say there is an unsolved murder with not a lot of evidence in your town.  The very first thing the police are going to look at is motive.  Without motive you could claim anyone committed the crime.

  You guys talk about all this evidence and never talk about motive.  What possible motive would any American official have to allow something like 9/11 happen?  Once you get past that, which you never will, then you have to go back and understand that never in history has someone flown airliners into a giant buildings, therefore no-one knows what would happen, of course we do now.

  You might as spare me the talk about GW, you clearly no nothing about the man and are basing everything you know from liars who are paid to smear people.

  The UN put there hands on, counted, and documented tons of chemical and biological weapons.  Virtually every civil servant in the world saw this.  You guys because of the corrupt media have now drilled into your heads "there were no WMD's" well who do we believe?  Saddam says he destroyed them do we believe him after years and years of manipulation as well as a whole host of humans right attrocities, aggression, and wars?  I've said a zillion times, Saddam was not a direct threat, the threat was from Saddam handing weapons over to terrorists. 

  There is more evidence to support that Saddam had something to do with the Oaklahoma city bombing and 9/11 than there is of U.S. involvement in 9/11.  Jayna Davis are reporter has documented this evidence: http://www.jaynadavis.com/

  Plus a Clinton appointed Judge sided with 9/11 families who sued Saddam because of his connection to 9/11.

• mOOn_platOOn said on Mar 17, 2009....

  O
   
  No one is suggesting that any government per se had something official to do with the plan. There are many individuals in this world more powerful than governments.
   
  O

• kruuyai said on Mar 17, 2009....

  mOOn:  Thanks for the link to the Loose Change film.  It was very informative and things are even more sinister than I thought.  Yes, I realize that the president and government in general is a mask for the elite bankers.  I've known that for a while.  And any president who has seriously tried to change that has ended up dead.  So, it's up to us, isn't it?
  
  SMB:  "Here is my biggest problem with 9/11 conspiracy theorists."  Don't you think it's better to have a problem with the theory than with the theorists?  You can't fault people for trying to figure out what's going on. 
  
  "You guys talk about all this evidence and never talk about motive.  What possible motive would any American official have to allow something like 9/11 happen? "  The motive is to instill such fear in the public that they will accept anything that is proposed under the guise of "national security," like stripping us of our constitutional rights via the Patriot Act, for example, like making "pre-emptive strikes" to fuel the war machine that results in huges contracts for arms manufacturers and constructions firms, etc.  The ultimate goal is world domination by bringing everything together under one government.  It's not the politicians per se that are masterminding this, as mOOn pointed out.  They are the front men.. on the lower rungs of the heierarchy that stands to profit from this.  That's why it doesn't make any difference if we elect a republican or a democrat.  They are all beholden to the "elite" who operate behind the scenes.
  
  "never in history has someone flown airliners into a giant buildings"  Although it wasn't an airliner, a large military jet was flown into the Empire State building, destroying upper floors, and the building stands to this day.  If you really want to analyze whether the towers could have collapsed as they did because of the planes, start by seeing the film Loose Change.
  
  "You might as spare me the talk about GW, you clearly no nothing about the man and are basing everything you know from liars who are paid to smear people."  The man was our president for 8 years.  Are you telling me that only those who have met the man face to face are qualified to say anything about his performance in office?  Have you ever met him?  Then you're not any more qualified to make any assertions about him than I am, but in fact, we are both entitled to an opinion, because we were his employers.  But let's put this discussion of GW's personal attributes aside, because that is really beside the point.  The point is that our politicians, republican or democrat, are no longer working for us.  And we need to take our country back.
  
  "The UN put there hands on, counted, and documented tons of chemical and biological weapons.  Virtually every civil servant in the world saw this."  I don't know where you get your information from.  Here is a timeline from NPR.  I'm sure you can verify this by looking at the appropriate government records.  The WMD's that were found in Iraq were all destroyed by 1998 at the latest.  Subsequent reports of Saddam's "stockpiling": of WMD's was fabricated as a pretext to invade.  I already knew that at the time the invasion took place, and if I knew it, everybody else should have known it, because I wasn't even keeping up with the news.  But that aside, by what right does one country invade another because of something they "might" do?  How would you like to be arrested and executed for something that you "might" have done?  And the other point I'd like to make is that the biggest stockpile of weapons of mass destruction is undoubtedly located in the United States, so what determines which countries are allowed to have these things and which aren't?  I don't think I have to remind you that we are the only nation in the world that has ever dropped an atom bomb on someone... and twice at that.  I know exactly what you're going to say to that... you're going to pooh pooh me and say that it was justified because it was the only way to end the war.  First of all.. not true, the Japanese were getting ready to surrender anyway, because Russia was entering the war, and second of all... I dare you to "justify" it to the people that had the bomb dropped on them.  Maybe some other country will feel that it's "justified" for some other reason some day, and they'll be able to use our actions as a precedent.
  
  "Plus a Clinton appointed Judge sided with 9/11 families who sued Saddam because of his connection to 9/11."  And what does that prove?
  
  
  
  
  

• stopmediabias said on Mar 17, 2009....

  "The motive is to instill such fear in the public that they will accept anything that is proposed under the guise of "national security," like stripping us of our constitutional rights via the Patriot Act, for example, like making "pre-emptive strikes" to fuel the war machine that results in huges contracts for arms manufacturers and constructions firms"
   
  So in order to gain more power and influence over American's our government hatched a scheme to allow terrorists to cause billions of dollars of damage and thousands of American deaths.  Just think about that for a moment.  First of all couldn't the government instill a lot more fear with a lot less of bodycount for cheaper than 9/11?  I'm trying to look at this from your side.  Ok I'm a corrupt politician who wants to get as much power so I can have the greatest legacy, so lets see....I'll allow terrorist highjacked planes destory the WTC and the Pentagon and kill 50,000 people??  It just doesn't jive with me.
   
  No-one's constitutional rights were stripped and think about this way.  This notion of bi-partisanship is a crock.  We have two sides that are nearly always in disagreement.  The Patriot act was an update to our system in order to battle an enemy that is not like any other enemy in the past.  We have a system in which elected officials are in and out and competing parties are after power.  Its not a perfect system but it does prevent these wild Nazi-esque theories you have.
   
  "Are you telling me that only those who have met the man face to face are qualified to say anything about his performance in office?  Have you ever met him?"
   
  Here is the quote that you said:  "The man failed at everything he laid his hands on before becoming the president... and after."
   
  Either you flat our lied or your are ignorant of the actual facts because this is just simply not true. 
   
  I can say President Obama has done some pretty stupid things, but for me to say he is a stupid person without actually researching him or his life would be unfair and this is exactly what you guys did to GW.   
   
  Your timeline accounts for ALL the WMD's?
   
  http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200401/pollack

   

     "Baghdad has begun renewed production of chemical warfare agents, probably including mustard, sarin, cyclosarin, and VX ... Saddam probably has stocked a few hundred metric tons of CW agents."

   

  This is from a post I did back in May.  Plus you must have not seen the 60 minutes episode of the guy who guarded Saddam.  Supposedly Saddam told him it didn't matter what happened to the WMD's because we were just going to make more.

   

   "But that aside, by what right does one country invade another because of something they "might" do?"

   

  Well if the "might do" is handing a bunch of chemical agents over to terrorists then we have every right, but that is irrelevant.  There was no pre-emption, during the first Gulf war Saddam agreed to a UN brokered ceasefire.  He would stay in power as long as he gave up WMD's, destroyed present WMD's, and showed proof he destroyed them OR face military action up to removal from power.  He broke the deal and after subjugating his people and being responsible for the deaths of over a million people I think it was the right thing to do.

   

  "And the other point I'd like to make is that the biggest stockpile of weapons of mass destruction is undoubtedly located in the United States, so what determines which countries are allowed to have these things and which aren't?"

   

  Hello?  We are the good guys here.  We don't use VX gas on our own people and neither do the British or our other civilized allies.

   

  "I don't think I have to remind you that we are the only nation in the world that has ever dropped an atom bomb on someone... and twice at that. "

   

   Do you fight in a war to chastise the bad guys for wrongdoings like Pearl Harbor?  Or do you fight in a war to win?  You logically in the context of that war have to choose the latter because losing is not an option. You win a war by making the other side unable to fight which means no body count is too high no number of civilians dead is too high if it means winning the war.  This is the greatest of all human tragedies but at the same time imagine if the Japanese would have won, imagine if the Nazi party had won.  We dropped Napalm on Tokyo and killed 80,000 people by fire and they didn't surrender.  Dropping those bombs saved generations, as ghastly as that is. 

   

  "I dare you to "justify" it to the people that had the bomb dropped on them.  Maybe some other country will feel that it's "justified" for some other reason some day, and they'll be able to use our actions as a precedent."

   

  Did you conveniently forget Pearl Harbor?

   

  The Clinton appointed judge stated the plaintiffs proved that Saddam Hussien was connected to the attacks on 9/11.  It is just some more supporting evidence that Saddam had to go, there was no other way.
  

   
   
   
   
   
   
   

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