• pickersplock said on Mar 06, 2009....

  Well, I'm glad.
  There should be a point at which they are illegal.
  Especially when the baby is viable outside of the womb.
  Even though it isn't viable at 10 weeks, hey, guess what?
  It looks like a baby!
  http://www.i-am-pregnant.com/pregnancy/calendar/week/10
  The cool thing about the site is, that it shows what the baby looks like in each week.
  I hate abortions.......we do have choice, it's called birth control, use it!
  Hey, and we also have the morning after pill, so really there aren't a lot of really good excuses are there?

• DaddysLittleSlut said on Mar 06, 2009....

  Legal abortion has always been about the right of a woman to obtain a SAFE abortion.  Its a horrible thing to take a life no matter what the circumstances but the truth of the matter is.. that women will go to any lengths to do it.  Women were being butchered and killed because abortion was illegal.  Abortion became legal to save the lives of women not to kill babies.

• starchini said on Mar 06, 2009....

  ummm, many women dont even realize they are pregnant before ten weeks.  I was 8 weeks when I had found out...Seems like your on the road to hardly supporting abortion at all...Yup, seems like that pretty much leaves the morning after pill and women who dont wait around for their period that isnt coming.  Thats what I did, i missed one period and didnt think anything of it, "oh im just late, it happens", it was after i missed my second period that i was like "uh-oh..."....By the time i made it to my first doctor appointment i was almost 3 months pregnant.  I think if ten weeks was the cut off for legal abortions, more than half would be illegal...

• starchini said on Mar 06, 2009....

  ya know what, i just wanted to throw a thought i had out there, i dont wanna start some big abortion debate...The thought was:

  "im surprised that pro choicers dont give darn or even waiver a teeny bit at the fact that the woman who got abortions legalized (Norma McCorvey) is in fact not pro choice she is pro-life, she tried retracting the entire legal outcome of roe vs wade and undoing the legal abortion law she created when she realized it was wrong to abort, and im just surprised that the pro choicers didnt care at all, she was the one that started it all, it was her "war" she tried to end it and all her pro-choice following doesnt care that shes changed her mind at all? its like a nation following their president into war and when the president says "stop, we were wrong" they continue without him""

   

• mobil said on Mar 06, 2009....

  I don't know anyone who can say when life starts, plenty do but they don't know. No one knows for sure when a life becomes a life. So I have to go with conseption.

• anonymous said on Mar 06, 2009....

  do u want branded handbags,watches,jewelry and shoes?

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  a good online store

  high quality, reasonable price

  worth to have a look
  

• dyingman said on Mar 07, 2009....

  Animals feel pain and we kill them all the time.
  
  Further, I suspect what these "people" have noted is that a fetus reacts to stimulation.
  A bacterium can do that.
  
  What is "pain"?
  The emotional unpleasantness is a far cry from the reflexive curling of a worm. 
  
  What is it about causing pain that changes your view of one's personal freedom so much?
  
  How is your discomfort with "pain" so much more important that a zealot's discomfort about violating the will of God after conception?
  
  Your opinions (and mine) may not be terribly important when it's someone ELSE's life that is to be disrupted for 9 months to 22 years, depending on maturity, emotional disposition, finances, etc.
  
  The closest I come to discomfort is 20 weeks.  This is the earliest marker I've heard where cerebral neurological activity is beginning.
  
  That is the earliest a reflexive muscle twitch in a fetus might actually be converted to an emotional state roughly translated to "OW!"
  
  It's been a while since I was 20 weeks gestational age, so I don't remember personally.
  
  
  

• mobil said on Mar 07, 2009....

  My Mother is getting old and hey; animals feel pain and we kill them all the time.

   

  I know I could hit Mom over the head with a ball bat, she wouldn't feel a thing.

   

  My Mom was concepted so long ago no one even remembers.

   

  Your opinions (and mine) may not be terribly important when my life is disrupted having to take care of Old Mom.

   

  The closest I come to discomfort is 80 years, most cerebral neurological activity is slowing by then.

   

  Reflexive muscle? Mom's reflexes aren't that great, I don't think she'd even say "OW" if I caught her not looking.

   

  I'm not anywhere near 80 yet, so I don't care.

• seer said on Mar 08, 2009....

  Dyingman, that was really intellegent. Thanks.
   
  I wasn't trying to start a new abortion debate, I wanted pro lifers to maybe decide on a ten-week deadline for abortions.

• andora said on Mar 08, 2009....

  
  
  you are beating a dead horse!
  
  you are being replaced by the enlightened and you have so little time, cus you are talking dead, worn out, dysfunctional ideas!
  
  read carefully:
  
  two days ago i had the great privilege to sit by my fire in the forest with Dawone. A man of 28 yrs from Texas. He and his partner have been making love for years without getting pregnant. Then, they decided to procreate a child and specifically made love to conceive. He and she experienced an unusual, simultaneous orgasm that ended with laughter for an entire 10 minutes. His beautiful goddess will give birth this spring. His countenance, while sharing this with me, was filled with light (a measurable form of "L" energy that is electromagnetic energy specific to a human heart -- Dr. Paul Pearsall, Hawaiian Heart Surgeon wrote - The Hearts Code.)
  
  After receiving this great information I asked Dawone how he had prevented pregnancy all the years before conception.... i was so surprised by his absolute presence of being as he said:
  
  "Every time we made love, we instructed the sperm not to find the egg"
  
  HELLLOOOO :]
  
  listen up folks
  
  you have been by-passed in the realm of human evolution and you haven't even noticed!!!!!!!
  
  read my thesis about the nature of creation and the responsiveness of this multiplex creation to personality. Yesssss you are a unique personality....learn how to use what you have

• andora said on Mar 08, 2009....

  A REVOLUTIONARY SEXUAL ETHIC
  
  www.pangasm.org
  
  this is important information that will help everyone realize that the unborn are real and conscious prior to birth.
  
  conceiving unconsciously has put the world into an emergency that is causing a paradoxical conversation that always leads to war, it is called:
  
  THE BATTLE OF THE SEXES
  
  this is happening in our body at all times bc we were taught ideas that were not founded in fact
  
  panGasm is a principle founded in fact
  
  this is available for free
  
  and will change this circular conversation instantaneously
  
  that is
  
  if u want a solution
  
  maybe u just need to argue on your way out?
  
  sucks to be the living dead!
  

• mobil said on Mar 08, 2009....

  Must suck to be out of your fucking  mind.

• seer said on Mar 09, 2009....

  hahaha nice one mobil.

  We wern't beating a dead horse, the pro-choicers VS pro lifers debate, as far as I'm concerned, is over, with pro-choice winning - just look at the law! What I was trying to do was disuss WHEN the law should be. Currently its 24 weeks, and I think that is wrong. Christ, my girlfriend was 26 weeks when she was born. I'm saying you should be allowed a termination as long as you're under ten weeks prgnant, but of course we should have free and better tests so you can find out earlier.

   

  I'm meeting you halfway you pro-life fucks!

• starchini said on Mar 09, 2009....

  Hey hey, easy, I got your point.  Say, ignoring me is cool, i really dont mind, but i was curious what your thoughts were on my comment...about the Norma McCorvy thing?  Care to contribute?  Im curious what you think, as a pro choice fella.   

• seer said on Mar 09, 2009....

  Sorry star haven't been online a lot as I have moved house, I know there's a LOT I need to comment on, and don't worry, I will get round to it!!

• andora said on Mar 09, 2009....

  so, if they are pro-life they would be open to solutions
  
  since they are not pro-life, they focus purely on creating laws to oppress people, rather than evolving new solutions....as I am offering here.
  
  AND YESSS, seer, you are beating a dead horse
  
  if spiritual birthcontrol is being used successfully, why then do you think the bleeding heart, so-called 'pro-life' group are not interested in spiritual birth control? Because they don't care about life, they care about control and power over others. Just ask their rebellious offspring!
  
  over the years, as a result of first hand experience, i have witnessed the closed-minds, closed-hearts and small consciousness behind this group. They are mean-spirited - not the kind of people i would allow around my children.
  
  Meeting someone half-way in a dead argument is a waste of your time seer. The science is in....a fetus is conscious AT CONCEPTION. Or are you ignoring the evidence i offer bc you are subject to a closed-mind, closed-heart and small consciousness?
  
  this conversation will dissolve into the nothingness of denial that it is all about. beat the dead horse more folks, you sound absolutely ridiculous to those who know better. And, you are only contributing to more confusion and shame by refusing to acknowledge the miracle of self-determination.
  
  I'm sure the pastor that was gunned down this weekend was a good fellow, but his prayers only brought a senseless, deadly disaster. Follow superstitions and you will surely live in an illusion that has no ground. When people invest in illusions they pay the price....and when they preach illusions they should definitely be looking over their shoulder because reality has a way of slamming illusions into the shit swamp from whence they came!
  
  So, here you have it....REVOLUTIONARY INFORMATION that changes this stuck and endless circular firing squad btwn the pro-lifers and the pro-murderers...and you refuse to acknowledge that both sides of this polarized conversation are unwilling to understand that they are being blessed by the truth that would deliver both sides from thier agony. but, denied hatred is rarely open to new information!
  

• satanx said on Mar 09, 2009....

  MAKE ABORTIONS *FUN IF YOU MUST MURDER THE UN-BORN.

  I HAVE SOULS TO HARVEST IETHER WAY!

  666 MY FRIEND!

  OBEY ME NOW. I RULE YOU BLIND.

  You might be satanx jr. REDRUM, REDRUM, REDRUM.

  The pope is a fool.

  FALLOW ME!

• seer said on Mar 10, 2009....

  No andora YOU are beating the dead horse here, I'm talking, as a pro-choicer, the limit in which I feel abortion should be legal, not IF its ethical or not.
   
  Star sorry I really can't find that post! Send me a link! Oh yeah, I forgot to say, I got a PM from someone saying they think we're the same person (that's what that's about) which is pretty wierd because I had that in a comment with Spiritualmom.

• starchini said on Mar 10, 2009....

  lol, seer, I commented at the beginning of this post.  Its way up top, lol...I just wanted to know what your thoughts were on Norma McCorvy and how she changed her stance from pro-choice to pro-life after she led the war in legalizing abortion, she now whats the law taken back, do you think this should or shouldnt have an effect on peoples stances on abortion? 

  hmmm,  i wanna read it, can you send it to me?  Id like to know who thinks we are the same.  Its happened before, I must have multiple personalities bc ive also been silverwhisper, zayda, sean renaud and a few other people, now im seer too i guess.   Crazy mo fo's, dont have anything better to do than investigate, assume, conclude, and falsly accuse. 

   

• seer said on Mar 10, 2009....

  haha sorry I was looking at your blogs for a post about Norma McCorvy.
   
  I don't think it should effect people's views on abortion. 
   
  My views on abortion (that it should be legal under 10 weeks), I have found myself through thought, research, conversation; likewise pro-lifers have read some pro-life propaganda or consulted their faith (or just been very near sighted about the whole debate), and I really don't see the relevance between Nortma McCorvy's views on abortion and mine? Should there be?
   
  Yeah those people that always assume people have multiple accounts piss me off, I don't write to get comments and interest, I write for likeminded people to read, or unlikeminded people to argue.

• seer said on Mar 10, 2009....

  While I'm here actually, I'd like to re enforce something about this topic.
   
  WE WERE DISCUSSING FROM A PRO-CHOICE PERSPECTIVE WHERE THE LINE IS BETWEEN CELL MASS AND HUMAN! NOT DISCUSSING IF ABORTION IS ETHICAL OR NOT!!
   
  If you want to discuss the ethics or abortion, please feel free to comment on the post I wrote about that. Ok? Or go to pieteropie and write on his abortion topic. Because this thread is getting clogged up badly with people going off topic. Its about WHEN abortion should be performed and Norma McCorvy, but why is it when someone says 'abortion' ALL the pro-lifers and pro-choicers come out of the woodwork and shout loudly at one another?!
   
  In that sense Andora is right, about the flogging a dead horse thing.

• starchini said on Mar 10, 2009....

  no i guess there shouldnt be a reason for Norma McCorvy to interfere with your thought process.  I guess I would think it would just make all pro-choicers stop in their tracks for atleast a moment and think something like "Hey, she was the reason abortion became legal, she had more stock in this than anyone, she was the most passionate person of us all, if it wasnt for her this wouldnt even be an issue, i wonder, what on earth could make her change her mind and now be on the other side trying to get it abolished?" ..I just wondered if anyone thought that.  Cuz its true, if not for that gal abortion would not be legal, or atleast not as soon as it was.  She was the ring leader, the president, the face behind it all.  And poof, she changed her mind and now believes abortion is wrong.  And its not cuz she found religion or anything, she has thought about it, and changed her mind....I even wonder why...and im a pro-lifer.  Its like following your president into war and when he says "ok, lets go home, i change my mind, war is bad", the army continues to fight without him.  Normally the army would follow him in his decision to no longer fight...  Ya know what i mean? 

• starchini said on Mar 10, 2009....

  lol,  its not about norma mccorvy either, my bad : P  .....okay back to your point seer....I think abortion should be illegal when the "fetus" has DNA...I highly recommend you google "abortion" under images, not web pages.  Bazillions of horrifying pictures come up of mangled babies...lots of these pictures the babies arnt more than a couple months, i know after i saw those, i was pro-life...seeing what they look like for my own eyes really made my decision on wether it was cruel or not.  I mean, those teeny little fingers and bodies no bigger than a quarter...Or maybe youve already done that...if not, i thought id throw it out there.

• seer said on Mar 10, 2009....

  I getcha star!
   
  But at the end of the day, I was pro-choice before I heard about Norma McCorvy (yesterday), so its my feels and my 'war' no matter what she feels.
   
  But I bet you're pretty chuffed having her on your side!?!
   
  I think what pro-lifers say about abortion is nearly true, AFTER 10 weeks. Abortions under 10 weeks is a cell mass. Its not human. After that point its not like WriteCarlDobbs says, burning the skin and flesh with acid (that would seriously hurt the womb!) and hacking their limbs off with little mini sythes, but I do think its wrong to kill something that is THAT human (incidentally I'm glad that people like writercarldobbs exists because people like that will send people over to my side of the arguement).

• starchini said on Mar 10, 2009....

  Not really,  like you i dont much care what other people have to say,  ill listen and absorb what i want to but i stick to what i think is right and wrong.  People usually have to have a pretty fucking amazing arguement to talk me out of anything.  So Norma McCorvy being a pro lifer just reminds me of how feable people are. 

  I havnt ever read Carl, but from the photographic evidence ive seen, they do in fact rip the babies apart and burn them with acid, much later than 10 weeks.  When I googled abortion images there was one particularly disturbing photo of a baby that looked like it very well could have been delivered alive, it was big, and it was burned with acid, the side of its skull and body was black and melted, while the other side remained pink and in tact with hair even...granted i do not know the date the photo was taken, it could be quite old and they may not do that now, i cant be sure...but based on the photo quality, i gotta say it didnt look very old at all...so it makes me think they still in fact do administer acid into the womb and they do still tear the babies limbs off....you can shed some light on that one, i do not know for sure...

  But, im not pro-life.  Im pro-choice.  Being pro-choice is simply because, there are far too many moral issues related to abortion, everyones beliefs and situations are different, and people are gonna do what they want no matter the law.  If someone absolutly has to kill a baby, i would rather they do it and live with their own guilt instead of doing it with a coat hanger and risk killing themselves as well.  I supose id rather have a baby die, than a baby and a mother...And making abortions illegal will just make it more dangerous than it already is for the mother (who will get an aboriton, legal or not)...

  I myself would not ever have an abortion and I do believe that there are always alternatives.  The only way i approve of abortion is if the mothers life is threatened by delivering the baby.  But when it comes to rape, and ooopsies, and im not ready, i dont agree with aboriton, there are billions of people in the world begging for new born babies to adopt.  A simple phone call would save a unwanted child's life and bring happiness to a deserving but barren couple. 

  I just dont think there is ever a reason for abortion, 98% of the time, the baby can simply be adopted...the 2% would be for the mothers whos lives are threatened by delivery...

  Anyways, im very much pro-choice....I just choose life, its not for me to judge what other people choose.  Ya know? 

  (P.S.- i was just reviewing our little dialogue and i caught what could be a very confusing typo of mine...before i said i was a pro-lifer, i meant pro-choice.  I get'em mixed up cuz im about as pro-life as you can get while being pro-choice...how i explained myself is how i really feel, but i supose my titles depend on how i feel that day...screw the label, what i said is what i mean...How i explained my feeling on abortion is what i really feel, personally im pro-life, but when it comes to everyone else im pro-choice....oh God, im even confusing myself....Do have any idea what im talking about? Im pro-choice but i choose life....interpret that as you wish : P, ill shut up now)

• seer said on Mar 11, 2009....

  Star I totally understand you!

  My grandmother has a wicked view on abortion - each case is different. If the baby has a mother who is a heroin addict, then maybe an abbortion would be best. If both parents earn £60k, then maybe an abortion isn't the best option.

  Yes the pictures look brutal, but they're probably after ten weeks - ask yourself, could it be propoganda? These pictures are obviously on a pro life site, so the motive for posting them is clear.

  It may LOOK brutal to abort even below ten weeks, but the foetus does not feel pain, yes the limbs might be ripped off or the baby burnt, but it feels nothing, has no heartbeat or anything - just like taking the contraceptive pill.

  Star, do you agree?

   

• starchini said on Mar 12, 2009....

  Yes I agree.  I really dont have a problem in extremely early abortion.  I once took the Plan B pill, i didnt even know if i was pregnant or not, i just new i had an oopsies.  Some extreme pro lifers think that that is an abortion.  I think thats crap, i dont see anything wrong wih the morning after pill, as if a child is created 18 hours after a condom breaks, what a bunch of nut cases.  I cant exactly stand by the ten weeks thing though, to be honest I dont have a big grasp on the weekage and how it correlates with baby growth.  I think the second that their is a heart beat and i can count the fingers, its too late, for me.  I think that abortion should be used when there are no other options, if the momma is totally capable of giving birth there are other ways out of becoming a parent without killing the baby...I know im repeating myself, ive already said that.  YES i agree that abortions are okay if the baby feels absolutly no pain...

  On a side note completly unrelated...ya know what bugs me?  Is when people think that unwanted children are better off dead than oh, say being adopted.  People assume that unwanted children will be raised badly and end up a criminal or psycho.  In their arguements they say things like "well its better to abort than to add to the already over populated world by putting it up for adoption, the kid will just be unhappy and prolly end up a criminal or in jail or on drugs"...I think thats a load of crap...There are wonderful adoptive parents out there that are perfectly able to groom children into presidents and doctors.  And even if the kid doesnt end up in a picture perfect home, there are billions of people who are simply stronger because of it.  That person could be aborting the next president of the united states, all bc "its not the right time"...I just think that 9 times outta 10, the child should atleast be given the chance to succeed and not assumed to be a complete failure just bc of its situation...

  Like you!  You didnt have a picture perfect childhood, in fact, i seem to remember reading that your mom is quite a bitch.  And youve turned out magnificent! 

   

• seer said on Mar 14, 2009....

  True but there are many that won't! Each case should really be indevidually looked at.

• ampbox said on Mar 16, 2009....

  no to abortion.
   
  some people can't even have babies trying in vitro or whatever.
  come on, have some conscience.
   
  you're responsible for that baby.
  and if you don't want it (although you deliberately made it) unless
  you were "raped" which is still not an excuse
  not to keep it or give it's right to live, try adoption.
  regardless of the situation, mom's an addict or poor,
  socialite or a church member, it all ends up to doing what is right.
  we don't have the right to take a life.
   
   

• seer said on Mar 17, 2009....

  Ampbox, we have had the abortion debate already, and I'm a pro-lifer, and we've had the debate already, on a different thread. Pieteropie I think had the biggest debate going. We're on about the legal limit for abortion from a pro-lifer's perspective, not if its ethical or not.
   
  But still, you are entitled to your own opinion, and I'm too tired and hungover to form an arguement back, so I'll have to send you to the other abortion posts we've had.
   
  Cheers for the comment!

• ampbox said on Mar 17, 2009....

  oops, ok. obviously i wasn't paying enough attention. hehe thanks

• Taffy000 said on Sep 30, 2009....

  My question to you is if a woman you slept with wound up pregnant would you as an individual take on the entire resposibility?  If the woman signed away parental rights would you as a man be willing to shoulder that entire responsiblity?  If so, I say bravo what a stand up guy. 
   
  I don't think the abortion debate should be about whether or not a fetus feels pain.  There are some grown human beings who aren't able to feel pain.  Are they not human?  When a fetus is inside a woman she is the one who must make the decision to continue the pregnancy or terminate it.  The time when a man has a say in it is before he has sex with her. 
   
  As a person who could have been potentially aborted, had my mother had the thought or money for it I could not blame her.  The truth of the whole adoption matter is there are couples who'd rather fly to Russia for an emotionally damaged White baby than adopt a bi-racial or God forbid Black baby.  It's hell being raised in a family where you aren't accepted by half your relatives because of the color of your skin.  Do I think it's right to bring children into the world that truly o one wants?  No.  If I'd have been given the choice to live my life as is now or just never have been born.  I would have gladly chosen to have never been born life is tough enough when you are wanted. 

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