HEGE:
Faith? Blind faith?
Was the story of Jesus Christ just a story written by bored men? Was it a quest fo money, power and controll throughout the ages?
You cannot see the air, but you know that there is air.
Most of the time I find people believe in god deep down but their thoughts are blinded by those in the religious community. I.E. priests raping/abusing children. Me myself, I hated nuns with a vengence because of the violence they were capable of. I think sometimes you have to ask yourself weather it's God (what do you feel in your gut) that your questioning or those religious people of all denominations, that seem to do the exact opposite of what their religon teaches or seems to teach.
It's probably the people you are doubting. Me myself. I feel that there is something some energy some sence of something. I cant qualify or explain this but I know what I feel. On the other hand religons can go and get stuffed as far as I'm concerned. People read these books (yes I have read them) and take what they need from it and most of the time will deride any one with a differing veiw point. The main source or angst between Christians and Muslims is weather Jesus was the son of god(christian) or just a prophet(muslim). As far as muslims are concerned Jesus was a prophet(hope I'm speling right) as to call any one the son or a direct decendant of gods is blasphamey. Also looking at the roots of the catholic church tells you alot.....What did they first pope (who converted to christianity on his death bed) and the last roman emperor have in common.....they were the same person. Is religon all about controling the people.
I tend to think it is men. Men like me and you who read a book....other men tell them this book is the word of god.....they draw a veiw point which is led by who ever else they confer to on the subject. Then lock themselves into a way of thinking. It is men then that act on God's behalf and in his name. If you disagree you are held up to riddicle. Maybe even convicted of crimes against god. Look through history and you'll see examples of it everywhere across all religions. People killed for blaspahemy. Priests excommunicated for disagreeing with their church. It still happens today. There seem to be alot of double standards between what you think and feel after reading one of these books and what you see some people do because of these books and teachings.
I think I commented somewhere else that most religions started or are influenced by some one who walked to their own tune. Jesus, Budda being examples of this. The reason they stood out was because they were so different. Read the books but do not let others decide for you what is right and what is wrong. Draw your own conclusions. Be true to yourself because if God does exsist all the teachings seem to suggest he is already with-in you and all you have to do is be still and listen (sounds like a meditation mantra to me). Good Luck.
There was a time of God the Father (the old testament times in which the Jews are still stuck), then there was the time of Jesus the Son (the times of Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John in which most of the Christian churches are stuck), and there is the time of the Holy Spirit (the times we are in now, which are more penecostal). You are now the temple of God (the Holy Spirit). Most people are more interested in what is happening right now instead of what may or may not happen after death. Jesus told us to love God (the Father) and our neighbors. That pretty much sums up all the Ten Commandments, which were laid out a little more in depth (like everything else) for the Jews. God put us here with free will in hopes we would choose to follow Him and love Him. That is the hope of every father -- to be loved unconditionally by his children. Like any headstrong child, some choose not to follow God. Some do not even believe He exists and rebel against Him (often a reenactment of their relationship with their biological father). No one can prove God exists or does not exist. It is a personal choice by faith. However, most feel compelled to persuade others to think as they do about the subject. That kind of proves to me there is a God and that there is a devil. There is definitely a struggle on this planet between good and evil. And half the battle is defining what really is good and what really is evil. Even trying to use the Holy Bible as a guideline can get us in trouble because Man's covenant with God in the Old Testament days is not the same covenant we have with God now. It would be OK for Jews to follow The Law, but in many cases they do not even believe in the basics anymore. Otherwise, they would not have voted for Borax or any of the other baby-murdering, homosexual-loving Democrats.
again, curmudgeon, you missed the point. i can offer irrefutible proof that i exist. i can start up a web cam and show you. i can travel to where you are and stand before you. it is entirely possible to provide positive proof that i exist, if you cannot fathom the simple reasoning i've provided with the words on the screen. in fact, you do see the reason in my example, because you switched your argument from existance to identity.
all religions start with a conclusion, a diety exists, and then use anecdotal evidence to support their conclusions, so at the very least, i have followed their model in some of my statements.
someone can offer proof of the existence of a diety in the same manor that i gave proof of my existence. they can offer proof in many different ways. so far, nothing but anecdotal evidence has ever been offered as to the proof of the existence of a diety.
is it possible that there is irrefutable proof that a diety exists? certainly. is it possible that such a diety exists? certainly. however, reason dictates that extrordinary claims require extrordinary proof. your argument has gone from stating 'ultimate truth' that a diety exists to a possibility that there is proof that a diety exists. this supports my argument far more than it does yours.
let me put it this way. it is possible that there is proof that the great pink unicorn exists, so does that mean we should erect great structures, fight wars, collect offerings, sing praises and pin hope of an eternal existance telling people that unless they believe, they will suffer eternity in horrible torture, all in the name of the great pink unicorn? i daresay you would think that is ludacris.
Yikes! this has cetainly gotten interesting since I've been gone!!
How about both of you guys go "web-cam" and we can watch your debate in real time!! LOL ;)
seriously though...this has really gotten deep and I appreciate that 2 people can have an intelligent discussion/debate without becoming like pigs wallowing in a gutter. *kudos* to you both, because this is thought provoking, intelligent banter, encouraging all of us who read it to think for ourselves, and to take points under consideration that we may previously, had not. always an educational experience. ~thanks~
*mixed nuts*~ you've barely gotten a word edgewise...but I know you sometimes prefer to just throw the meat out there and let everyone go at it while you watch!! ;) LOL
*~*Holly*~*
